FabSwingers.com forum: The Queen meeting Martin McGuinness

By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

What do you think about the Queen meeting Martin McGuinness?

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By *atisfy janeWoman
over a year ago

Torquay

She will look lovely in Green....

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By *etillanteWoman
over a year ago

I don't want a forum ban so I won't say

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"I don't want a forum ban so I won't say"

You think she should wear red white and blue dress not green? lol

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By *punkloverCouple
over a year ago

hatfield

"I don't want a forum ban so I won't say"

Agreed totally !!!

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By *ikeC81Man
over a year ago

harrow

a week of for a state funeral it will be then

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

As much as it sticks in my craw to say it, I think the meeting should go ahead as her majesty never embroils herself in political arguments (bearing in mind she lost a favoured uncle to an IRA bomb) and to refuse to meet McGuiness now would kick start an Anglo-Irish wrangle we really don't want to see again. Those times are over, let them all rest in peace.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I don't want a forum ban so I won't say"

Speak

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By *amschwingerzCouple
over a year ago

West

Well I wouldnt want to meet someone who may have been involved in blowing my uncle to bits...

She may not involve herself in politics, so on the strength of that, would she have shaken hands with Pol pot, Ide Amin, Saddam Hussein? let alone a terrorist..(excluding south african ones! made famous by Annie Lennox et al

)

Oh I dont see why people should not say what they feel on here, in fear of being banned..if its such a contentious subject close the thread and be done with it.

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By *amschwingerzCouple
over a year ago

West

[Removed by poster at 22/06/12 20:59:31]

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By *ittle_brat_evie!!Woman
over a year ago

evesham

who is Martin McGuinness?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

" Those times are over, let them all rest in peace."

thats twice in a week wishy and i have agreed..wtf?

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By *unterslickCouple
over a year ago

tullamore

"who is Martin McGuinness?"

good one lol

im saying nowt,,but agree with the statement on why cant people say what they want

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By *ittle_brat_evie!!Woman
over a year ago

evesham

"who is Martin McGuinness?

good one lol

im saying nowt,,but agree with the statement on why cant people say what they want "

its not a joke

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"who is Martin McGuinness?"

a twat who used to be a terrorist

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By *londeCazWoman
over a year ago

Arse End of the Universe, Cumbria

If it were down to me, McGuiness and Adams would both be rotting in the Maze, but as it's not then I agree with Wishy regarding Her Maj being apolitical and us not wanting a return to The Troubles

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By *etillanteWoman
over a year ago

"who is Martin McGuinness?

a twat who used to be a terrorist"

In my eyes, once a terrorist, always a terrorist and responsible, maybe, indirectly for the death of many a good man, woman and child. RIP Kevin

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

he refused to attend the gala held in her honour last year in Dublin. So I don't see why she should shake his hand... apolitical or not.

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By *uckknowsMan
over a year ago

here

She should knight him ( very hard and sideways)

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

It's a good thing, a war can never be over until forgivness outweighs hate, let the symbolic handshake add to the weight of forgivness, and a future for all.

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By *unterslickCouple
over a year ago

tullamore

"It's a good thing, a war can never be over until forgivness outweighs hate, let the symbolic handshake add to the weight of forgivness, and a future for all."

well said,,things were said and done on both sides that can never be undone so its best left in the past

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By *ouple in LancashireCouple
over a year ago

in Lancashire

sadly wrongs were done not only by 'each side' but also by the 'state'in fighting one side...

its not yet a peacefull society by any means yet, but its better than it was for all of us..

there comes a time to 'move on' in any conflict, such things as a handshake are part of that..

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

" Those times are over, let them all rest in peace.

thats twice in a week wishy and i have agreed..wtf?"

I'm not such a bad egg y'know. Just opinionated.

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By *uckknowsMan
over a year ago

here

"She should knight him ( very hard and sideways)

"
With that basterd with the beard I can't believe people are willing to forgive these bastards would you if your loved ones was there innocent victims

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

If she wants to meet and shake hands with murdering terrorists then that's her choice.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"he refused to attend the gala held in her honour last year in Dublin. So I don't see why she should shake his hand... apolitical or not.

That's what makes our lovely Queen so special, she rises above those sort of things but McGuiness may have had to face his 'comrades' after shaking her hand last year and he just didn't fancy it.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"She should knight him ( very hard and sideways)

With that basterd with the beard I can't believe people are willing to forgive these bastards would you if your loved ones was there innocent victims

There is a world of difference between tolerating and forgiving.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"She should knight him ( very hard and sideways)

With that basterd with the beard I can't believe people are willing to forgive these bastards would you if your loved ones was there innocent victims

Hmmm I also have German. Italian, Japanese and many other nationalities as friends. Shouldn't time heel?

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By *uckknowsMan
over a year ago

here

Saddam Hussein gets hung for oil and mcguiness gets to shake the hand of the woman whose uncle he killed, sound

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By *unterslickCouple
over a year ago

tullamore

"sadly wrongs were done not only by 'each side' but also by the 'state'in fighting one side...

its not yet a peacefull society by any means yet, but its better than it was for all of us..

there comes a time to 'move on' in any conflict, such things as a handshake are part of that.. "

very well put

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"Saddam Hussein gets hung for oil and mcguiness gets to shake the hand of the woman whose uncle he killed, sound "

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"sadly wrongs were done not only by 'each side' but also by the 'state'in fighting one side...

its not yet a peacefull society by any means yet, but its better than it was for all of us..

there comes a time to 'move on' in any conflict, such things as a handshake are part of that.. "

Well spoken! From a Northern Irish man

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By *ouple in LancashireCouple
over a year ago

in Lancashire

"She should knight him ( very hard and sideways)

With that basterd with the beard I can't believe people are willing to forgive these bastards would you if your loved ones was there innocent victims

how far does one go back and retain the hatred?

dont think forgiveness comes into it for some with it still being 'recent', but putting ones animosity to one side can only benefit everyone...

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By *aucy3Couple
over a year ago

glasgow

" Those times are over, let them all rest in peace.

thats twice in a week wishy and i have agreed..wtf?

I'm not such a bad egg y'know. Just opinionated.

i agree,it's time to let go of the past,and move forward.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

having lost some bloody good mates when i was in the army in n/ireland in the early 70's im saying eff all about the present time but wish we'd have taken care of the b**tard back then

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By *unterslickCouple
over a year ago

tullamore

i have a very sad/bad feeling that this thread is gonna go very bad shortly,,

cant see a good ending to it

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

[Removed by poster at 22/06/12 21:58:41]

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"having lost some bloody good mates when i was in the army in n/ireland in the early 70's im saying eff all about the present time but wish we'd have taken care of the b**tard back then

So long as you remember the british army did carry out some atrocities in N.Ire to. Time to move on its 2012 not the 70's

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"It's a good thing, a war can never be over until forgivness outweighs hate, let the symbolic handshake add to the weight of forgivness, and a future for all."

Hear hear......

Irish history is littered with examples of people looking backwards and ruining it.

Rather than thinking 'He was a mover and a shaker in the Provo's, he ought be executed' we should think 'He used to be a mover and a shakler in the Provo's, thanks god he realised the futility of using bombs and bullets and saw the future was in the ballot box alone'.........

If more terrorists and war mongers took the path of peace there would be a hell of a lot less murders going on.

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By *uckknowsMan
over a year ago

here

"having lost some bloody good mates when i was in the army in n/ireland in the early 70's im saying eff all about the present time but wish we'd have taken care of the b**tard back then

So long as you remember the british army did carry out some atrocities in N.Ire to. Time to move on its 2012 not the 70's"
What like bombing pubs in a busy city centre on a Friday nite

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I don't want a forum ban so I won't say"

Same here

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"having lost some bloody good mates when i was in the army in n/ireland in the early 70's im saying eff all about the present time but wish we'd have taken care of the b**tard back then

So long as you remember the british army did carry out some atrocities in N.Ire to. Time to move on its 2012 not the 70'sWhat like bombing pubs in a busy city centre on a Friday nite"

Not getting into a slagging match with you, not worth the hassle its an open forum for peoples opinions so lets just leave it at that hey!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"having lost some bloody good mates when i was in the army in n/ireland in the early 70's im saying eff all about the present time but wish we'd have taken care of the b**tard back then

So long as you remember the british army did carry out some atrocities in N.Ire to. Time to move on its 2012 not the 70's"

if we dont remember the past there is never gonna be any hope for the future and mistakes will continue to happen, just ask our lads in the army now if we should have stopped in the the 1st gulf war to let hussain get away with invasion, thousands of british people died in WW2 so that we have the freedom of speach to express our thoughts if be it in this forum or any other place

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"we have the freedom of speach to express our thoughts if be it in this forum or any other place"

Agree totally

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By *unterslickCouple
over a year ago

tullamore

its only recently happened in ireland that the men that irish men that fought with the british/allie armies in ww2 have been recognised so loads can be gotten from stuff like that happening in this day and age

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By *xccvvMan
over a year ago

Yorkshire North East

"having lost some bloody good mates when i was in the army in n/ireland in the early 70's im saying eff all about the present time but wish we'd have taken care of the b**tard back then

So long as you remember the british army did carry out some atrocities in N.Ire to. Time to move on its 2012 not the 70's"

Dont even compare the British Army to the IRA who even their banker (USA) told them not to come to America any more, the IRA were still doing their thing after 2000 just the money ran out so had to change tact

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"She should knight him ( very hard and sideways)

With that basterd with the beard I can't believe people are willing to forgive these bastards would you if your loved ones was there innocent victims

Can't help but agree with this x

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"It's a good thing, a war can never be over until forgivness outweighs hate, let the symbolic handshake add to the weight of forgivness, and a future for all."

??????? Nah

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

[Removed by poster at 22/06/12 22:24:24]

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

She met Nelson Mandella and he had a past not dissimilar. Do we hold grudges or do we try and make peace and get on with life? Me well I think its something that could have a positive out come for the future and we have to live for the future as I see it.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

if we forgive McGuinness maybe we should have forgiven the nazis at nuremburg in 1946 for their crimes against humanity, maybe we should have forgiven the japs who had my grandfather build the burma raiway in 1943, maybe we should forgive the b**stards for bringing down the twin towers need i go on

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

its easy to spot the British state television is alive and well in England, over the past 40 odd years you have been shown the evils of the North of Ireland as a one sided view, what about the murders of innocent people killed by the British army and have got away with it simply because they have a licence to kill. And how about the innocent people killed by loyalist terrorist because they weren't of the same religion.

Im not condoning the murder of any innocent person at all but dont think anybody has the right to wish people dead when they clearly dont know or understand the situation that goes on in another country.

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By *xccvvMan
over a year ago

Yorkshire North East

"if we forgive McGuinness maybe we should have forgiven the nazis at nuremburg in 1946 for their crimes against humanity, maybe we should have forgiven the japs who had my grandfather build the burma raiway in 1943, maybe we should forgive the b**stards for bringing down the twin towers need i go on"

Spot on

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By *unterslickCouple
over a year ago

tullamore

this could and probably will go on all night,,and its a shame really,loads of people have been affected by the troubles in the north,

it is time to move on and not forget the past but learn and grow from it,

things happened,friends/family lost on bopth sides,isnt it time to just let it be the past

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By *unterslickCouple
over a year ago

tullamore

"its easy to spot the British state television is alive and well in England, over the past 40 odd years you have been shown the evils of the North of Ireland as a one sided view, what about the murders of innocent people killed by the British army and have got away with it simply because they have a licence to kill. And how about the innocent people killed by loyalist terrorist because they weren't of the same religion.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Maybe people want to move on. Most people can forgive each other as a nation. But this is about an individual who was involved in terrorism. Maybe they just struggle to move on from him, because it's too personal and has a face?

Like the nazis... the nazis aren't forgiven, but surely nobody blames today's German youth for what happened back then and wouldn't shake hands with them?

Just throwing it out there?!

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By *ove bi guysWoman
over a year ago

Birmingham

well said x

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By *ouple in LancashireCouple
over a year ago

in Lancashire

who's talking about forgiving him?

its a handshake, and if the wife who's husband was blown up by PIRA can do that we should accept why she is doing so..

some dont and will never agree with it, thats human nature..

hatred is such a negative, nasty trait..

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Maybe people want to move on. Most people can forgive each other as a nation. But this is about an individual who was involved in terrorism. Maybe they just struggle to move on from him, because it's too personal and has a face?

Like the nazis... the nazis aren't forgiven, but surely nobody blames today's German youth for what happened back then and wouldn't shake hands with them?

Just throwing it out there?!"

i quite agree its not the irish we have a problem with, both my wife and i are from good irish stock and proud of it, its just that twat McGuinness who we both hold a grudge against

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By *unterslickCouple
over a year ago

tullamore

well,,some irish people still hold a grudge against some of the british soldiers,,

it just takes time to move on

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"well,,some irish people still hold a grudge against some of the british soldiers,,

it just takes time to move on "

it's very recent history and everyone knows someone who was somewhat hurt by this or even worse.

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By *unterslickCouple
over a year ago

tullamore

"well,,some irish people still hold a grudge against some of the british soldiers,,

it just takes time to move on

it's very recent history and everyone knows someone who was somewhat hurt by this or even worse. "

so very true,,it hits a nerve for lots of people

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By *orflondonerMan
over a year ago

Wood Green

Why is it irish people always presume that English people don't undersatnd the troubles? I don't need our TV or Media to have a opinion on the 6 counties or what went on in it.

As for the original post,it sickens me that she is going to meet that man.But, it was always going to happen at some point.Terrorists over there seem to be forgiven a damn sight quicker than ones from other parts of the world.

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By *ouple in LancashireCouple
over a year ago

in Lancashire

who's talking about forgiving him?

its a handshake, and if the wife who's husband was blown up by PIRA can do that we should accept why she is doing so..

some dont and will never agree with it, thats human nature..

hatred is such a negative, nasty trait..

meant the wife who's husbands uncle etc...

'kin hen..

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Who said forgive its more a matter of moving on. Only a small proportion of war criminals were dealt with in the late 40's and 50's. Many Scientists were welcomed by the US and Soviets if you look at it cynically.

The war in Ireland is over and yes it was a war from their point of view so we move on. The alternative is to start bombing, sending troops in to shoot civilians and do it all again. There comes a time to think with the head even if it leaves a nasty taste for some.

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By *unterslickCouple
over a year ago

tullamore

Why is it irish people always presume that English people don't undersatnd the troubles? I don't need our TV or Media to have a opinion on the 6 counties or what went on in it.

i take it you mean in ireland,from the point of view of alot of irish people they werent forgiven and never will,but most irish people have moved on,,it wasnt just the ira and the british army that were causing trouble,,there was alot more to it than just them

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By *xccvvMan
over a year ago

Yorkshire North East

"well,,some irish people still hold a grudge against some of the british soldiers,,

it just takes time to move on

it's very recent history and everyone knows someone who was somewhat hurt by this or even worse. "

You are correct, so taking a step back from my earlier posts, did serve in the Army dont normally post but this post hit a spot sadly

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

i disagree that the an irish terrorist is forgiven quicker than a terrorist from other parts of the world just ask your grandparents if they forgive the germans, i know it sickened my grandad when the duke of edinburgh attended emperor hirohito's funeral, he acctually cried and said what did we all die for out in the far east

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By *londeCazWoman
over a year ago

Arse End of the Universe, Cumbria

Like the nazis... the nazis aren't forgiven, but surely nobody blames today's German youth for what happened back then and wouldn't shake hands with them?

We're not actually talking about Irish youth here, McGuiness n Adams are the ex-leaders of the IRA so it's comparing Hitler to McGuiness in my opinion.....Nazi War Criminals are still being sought so I stand by my earlier comment that McGuiness n Adams should be rotting in prison

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Like the nazis... the nazis aren't forgiven, but surely nobody blames today's German youth for what happened back then and wouldn't shake hands with them?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Like the nazis... the nazis aren't forgiven, but surely nobody blames today's German youth for what happened back then and wouldn't shake hands with them?

That is an incredible statement with no knowledge whatsoever apart form being spoon fed tabloid excrement. McGuiness and Adams were fighting for freedom for THEIR country not dissimilar to the partizans and the French resistance in the second world war. Many people in Ireland see it that way that's why they voted them in.

Why do many English people feel its their right to intervene in how people in other countries run their OWN countries.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Like the nazis... the nazis aren't forgiven, but surely nobody blames today's German youth for what happened back then and wouldn't shake hands with them?

You're taking this a bit out of context. In the previous part I wrote that nations are able to forgive each other and move on, but maybe people can't forgive the individuals, which in this case is McGuinness and for the other side it was other individuals. I took Germany as an example. No one has forgiven the nazis but generally people have moved on from it now after all these years and don't begrudge today's generation.

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By *unterslickCouple
over a year ago

tullamore

Like the nazis... the nazis aren't forgiven, but surely nobody blames today's German youth for what happened back then and wouldn't shake hands with them?

and loads of others from the north have never been prosecuted for what was done,,on both sides,,we cant just say adamas and mcguinness,,others should be looked at aswell

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By *xccvvMan
over a year ago

Yorkshire North East

Like the nazis... the nazis aren't forgiven, but surely nobody blames today's German youth for what happened back then and wouldn't shake hands with them?

Why do many English people feel its their right to intervene in how people in other countries run their OWN countries.

Are you enjoying your time in England ?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Are you enjoying your time in England ?

ah c'mon don't go down that route now!

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By *orflondonerMan
over a year ago

Wood Green

Like the nazis... the nazis aren't forgiven, but surely nobody blames today's German youth for what happened back then and wouldn't shake hands with them?

Why do many English people feel its their right to intervene in how people in other countries run their OWN countries.

Tell that to the Ulster protestants

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Like the nazis... the nazis aren't forgiven, but surely nobody blames today's German youth for what happened back then and wouldn't shake hands with them?

and loads of others from the north have never been prosecuted for what was done,,on both sides,,we cant just say adamas and mcguinness,,others should be looked at aswell"

Few from the British armed forces who murdered civilians though. Why is that? Why stop there Thatcher attacked Argentina's forces, Blair had forces invade Iraq! In all those cases there could be an argument for calling them terrorists in other countries.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Like the nazis... the nazis aren't forgiven, but surely nobody blames today's German youth for what happened back then and wouldn't shake hands with them?

Why do many English people feel its their right to intervene in how people in other countries run their OWN countries.

Tell that to the Ulster protestants"

They can vote not for whom they wish to elect.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Like the nazis... the nazis aren't forgiven, but surely nobody blames today's German youth for what happened back then and wouldn't shake hands with them?

Why do many English people feel its their right to intervene in how people in other countries run their OWN countries.

Whilst I agree with the drive of your argument, the Republican portion of Ulster is a minority (where the French resistance were a majority).

As a result of nearly a milenium of colonisation in that part of the island, the majority of Ulstermen want to be part of the Union (that's why only 6 of the counties were retained after the setting up of the Free State, rather than the 9 counties that make up the traditional kingdom of Ulster, the 3 counties which were left out were in the West and had a majority of Catholic inhabitants).

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By *unterslickCouple
over a year ago

tullamore

Like the nazis... the nazis aren't forgiven, but surely nobody blames today's German youth for what happened back then and wouldn't shake hands with them?

Why do many English people feel its their right to intervene in how people in other countries run their OWN countries.

Tell that to the Ulster protestants"

in the same way you can say it to the ulster catholics

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Like the nazis... the nazis aren't forgiven, but surely nobody blames today's German youth for what happened back then and wouldn't shake hands with them?

Why do many English people feel its their right to intervene in how people in other countries run their OWN countries.

Are you enjoying your time in England ?

And what are you implying? I have an opinion which I am entitled to.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Like the nazis... the nazis aren't forgiven, but surely nobody blames today's German youth for what happened back then and wouldn't shake hands with them?

Why do many English people feel its their right to intervene in how people in other countries run their OWN countries.

Whilst I agree with the drive of your argument, the Republican portion of Ulster is a minority (where the French resistance were a majority)."

Thats factually incorrect as there was a very small proportion of the French civilians involved in the resistance.

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By *orflondonerMan
over a year ago

Wood Green

Like the nazis... the nazis aren't forgiven, but surely nobody blames today's German youth for what happened back then and wouldn't shake hands with them?

Why do many English people feel its their right to intervene in how people in other countries run their OWN countries.

Tell that to the Ulster protestants

in the same way you can say it to the ulster catholics"

Yep, the poor catholic kids that got knee capped for some "crime" probably din't think their freedom was being fought for either

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By *adystephanieTV/TS
over a year ago

glos

Putting aside the feelings from those that actually lived through those awful years of a fear and uncertainty I feel both sad and embarrassed that The Queen should agree to meet a 'convicted terrorist'

Maybe a garden party at the palace for Al Queida will be sometime in the future.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"It's a good thing, a war can never be over until forgivness outweighs hate, let the symbolic handshake add to the weight of forgivness, and a future for all."

Agree with you totally....only way forward.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

i must correct you the argies attacked us after the islanders said they still wanted to be linked to great britain not the other way about

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Like the nazis... the nazis aren't forgiven, but surely nobody blames today's German youth for what happened back then and wouldn't shake hands with them?

Why do many English people feel its their right to intervene in how people in other countries run their OWN countries.

Whilst I agree with the drive of your argument, the Republican portion of Ulster is a minority (where the French resistance were a majority).

Colonisation? Or occupation? IF Ireland was one country as it was I would hazard a guess the majority would vote for not being part of the UK. We did invade THEIR country after all. We have been in parts of the middle east for over 10 years is that colonisation if it goes longer?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Whilst I agree with the drive of your argument, the Republican portion of Ulster is a minority (where the French resistance were a majority).

Thats factually incorrect as there was a very small proportion of the French civilians involved in the resistance. "
Agreed, but they were part of the majority (ie the fighters in the French Resistance were French. The people who engaged in violence from the Republican side were both int he minority of their own comunity (a minority of the Catholic population) and also part of an ethnic minority in Ulster (the Catholics are a minority in Ulster) )

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By *unterslickCouple
over a year ago

tullamore

Yep, the poor catholic kids that got knee capped for some "crime" probably din't think their freedom was being fought for either"

yep any many from both sides got shot from "friendly fire aswell"

dont forget that there was other groups with guns and bombs not just the ira and british army

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Like the nazis... the nazis aren't forgiven, but surely nobody blames today's German youth for what happened back then and wouldn't shake hands with them?

Why do many English people feel its their right to intervene in how people in other countries run their OWN countries.

Whilst I agree with the drive of your argument, the Republican portion of Ulster is a minority (where the French resistance were a majority).

Well......yes.

The original invasion of Ireland was in the 11th Century (by a Normanised Welshman named William Strongbow). Herny Curthose (William the Bastards son and successor) was named King by the people conquered by Strongbow.........

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By *xccvvMan
over a year ago

Yorkshire North East

Yep, the poor catholic kids that got knee capped for some "crime" probably din't think their freedom was being fought for either

yep any many from both sides got shot from "friendly fire aswell"

dont forget that there was other groups with guns and bombs not just the ira and british army"

Correct

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Putting aside the feelings from those that actually lived through those awful years of a fear and uncertainty I feel both sad and embarrassed that The Queen should agree to meet a 'convicted terrorist'

Maybe a garden party at the palace for Al Queida will be sometime in the future.

I am sure she would rather sent troops in with bayonets to deal with people who don't want English rule! WRONG she is probably sick of murder on all sides and make no mistake all sides committed murder. It has stopped now and we need to move on in what ever way we can even if its hard. Note many countries round the world including the US did not approve of what we did in Ireland over the last century or more.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Like the nazis... the nazis aren't forgiven, but surely nobody blames today's German youth for what happened back then and wouldn't shake hands with them?

Why do many English people feel its their right to intervene in how people in other countries run their OWN countries.

Whilst I agree with the drive of your argument, the Republican portion of Ulster is a minority (where the French resistance were a majority).

Well......yes.

So you are saying that's when the IRA and the troubles began? Google again.

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By *unterslickCouple
over a year ago

tullamore

Yep, the poor catholic kids that got knee capped for some "crime" probably din't think their freedom was being fought for either

yep any many from both sides got shot from "friendly fire aswell"

dont forget that there was other groups with guns and bombs not just the ira and british army

Correct

how many of them have been brought to the fore for their part in it,,very few

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By *londeCazWoman
over a year ago

Arse End of the Universe, Cumbria

Like the nazis... the nazis aren't forgiven, but surely nobody blames today's German youth for what happened back then and wouldn't shake hands with them?

Why do many English people feel its their right to intervene in how people in other countries run their OWN countries.

One woman's terrorist, another's freedom fighter....my opinion, based on my knowledge and experience which no-one on here other than me knows....I only took exception to the comment regarding blaming german youth for the nazis (they weren't responsible), but I blame McGuiness and Adams (other terrorists/freedom fighters are available) for the murder of innocents

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By *unterslickCouple
over a year ago

tullamore

there is plenty to blame for the troubles in the north,,i just think its not worth the hassle to just put the boot in tto adams and mcguinness when they werent the only ones there,,if people want to blame them fine,,but at least have the open mind to name others aswell

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Like the nazis... the nazis aren't forgiven, but surely nobody blames today's German youth for what happened back then and wouldn't shake hands with them?

Why do many English people feel its their right to intervene in how people in other countries run their OWN countries.

You really lack understanding as it wasn't started by them it was instigated long before. Do you actually know what happened in Ireland? Knowledge is not what google brings up it is understanding. I suggest you go and find out what drove them to fight for freedom for THIER own country and then you may actually understand not repeat what you have been fed.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"there is plenty to blame for the troubles in the north,,i just think its not worth the hassle to just put the boot in tto adams and mcguinness when they werent the only ones there,,if people want to blame them fine,,but at least have the open mind to name others aswell"
There were plenty who sanctioned murder on all sides and I wouldn't condone any of it. We have to either start the killing up again or move on and try to help make Ireland and specifically the north as harmonious as possible as the people there deserve some security for the future.

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By *orflondonerMan
over a year ago

Wood Green

So how do you view the protestants opinion that it's also their country and should remain within the UK.Or don't they count?

Not all Prods are descendants of the 1641 plantation.I know many with ancient Irish surnames.Even the ones that are descended,thats a long time,Don't you think their opinions shuld be resepcted as well?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

So you are saying that's when the IRA and the troubles began? Google again.

No need to get insulting, old chap. I don't google these things, I read History and have something of an Photographic memory.

My comments about Strongbow et all were in response to your comments about colonisation...............

Should you want to know........The modern 'Troubles' started as a Civil Rights protest about discrimination by Protestants against Catholics. Catholics couldn't get jobs or houses because of their religion.

Because Protestants began to arm themselves and disrupt the Civil Rights marches the Army was sent in to defend the Catholics (and were largely welcomed by the Catholics who fed them and put them up because there were no barracks at first).

At this time the IRA had not been active since the civil wars in Irealand after the formation of the Irish Free State. The Provisional IRA were formed in '69.....

It all started to change after the Provisional IRA hijacked another Civil Rights march and occupied a block of flats and began attacking the RUC. The Army went in to try to stop that local conflict but got mixed up in the fighting and had to take the side of the RUC (As the lawfull Civil Power). After that the situation degenerated into 'The Troubles' as we knew them.

Also, my Old Man was one of the first lot to go over to Ulster in '69, should you want to comment on google again............

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By *londeCazWoman
over a year ago

Arse End of the Universe, Cumbria

Like the nazis... the nazis aren't forgiven, but surely nobody blames today's German youth for what happened back then and wouldn't shake hands with them?

Why do many English people feel its their right to intervene in how people in other countries run their OWN countries.

You have no idea what I know or don't know....both of us are entitled to our opinion, yet I have not implied that you don't know what you're talking about, I have merely stated my opinion, as I respect yours. Thank you for your suggestion, but I respectfully decline

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Like the nazis... the nazis aren't forgiven, but surely nobody blames today's German youth for what happened back then and wouldn't shake hands with them?

Why do many English people feel its their right to intervene in how people in other countries run their OWN countries.

Its very obvious what you don't know and what you don't understand. Well unless you post without expressing than knowledge and understanding. To imply a connection between the IRA and the Nazis blatantly proved you lack real knowledge. One was an invading force trying to conquer and subjugate, the other was a collection of people led by McGuinness and others fighting for the freedom of their country.

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By *adystephanieTV/TS
over a year ago

glos

Maybe a garden party at the palace for Al Queida will be sometime in the future.

If 'moving on' means allowing a callous, brutal and unrepentant animal such as this to breathe even the same air as The Queen then I must surely decline any invitation to be part of it ...

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By *orflondonerMan
over a year ago

Wood Green

They were not fighting for the freedom of the majority in "their" country though? It was and still is majority unionist.

The Island of Ireland is 2 countries

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Maybe a garden party at the palace for Al Queida will be sometime in the future.

If 'moving on' means allowing a callous, brutal and unrepentant animal such as this to breathe even the same air as The Queen then I must surely decline any invitation to be part of it ... "
Much like the rest of us i seriously doubt you got an invite to it so wouldn't worry to much

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"They were not fighting for the freedom of the majority in "their" country though? It was and still is majority unionist.

The Island of Ireland is 2 countries"

1 country its all 1 island

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By *unterslickCouple
over a year ago

tullamore

many irish people in the north did not recognise the ruc as the rightful law,,as they were the ones causing alot of the problems that led to the reforming of the ira,,hence the need to have the british army come over,,alot can and will be forever said about both sides,,and yet again it prob will go on for another 5 decades until both sides realise its over and to let it go,,arguments and blame will be thrown at individuals and i venture to say,,sometimes some of the blame is thrown in the wrong direction

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"So how do you view the protestants opinion that it's also their country and should remain within the UK.Or don't they count?

Honestly I think they have a point but so do the catholics and I suspect that is what the Queen sees too. What I would not want to see is resumption of the fighting so a compromise has to be reached that may not be loved by all but is seen as begrudgingly acceptable by most. If this meeting by the Queen helps in any way to resolve that then I hope it works. I do believe all have rights in Ireland however the indigenous population should have a large say.

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By *londeCazWoman
over a year ago

Arse End of the Universe, Cumbria

Like the nazis... the nazis aren't forgiven, but surely nobody blames today's German youth for what happened back then and wouldn't shake hands with them?

Why do many English people feel its their right to intervene in how people in other countries run their OWN countries.

Whilst I respect your opinion and defend your right to it, I also have a right to think you're talking complete bollocks and refusing to read what I have written....the comparison was for the poster who said that "surely nobody blames today's German youth for what happened back then and wouldn't shake hands with them? "....I would not refuse to shake hands with an Irish person, but I wouldn't shake hands with a member or former member of the IRA as I wouldn't with a member or former member of the Nazi party......hope this clears it up for you, if not, no biggie for me.....sleep tight x

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Maybe a garden party at the palace for Al Queida will be sometime in the future.

If 'moving on' means allowing a callous, brutal and unrepentant animal such as this to breathe even the same air as The Queen then I must surely decline any invitation to be part of it ... "

Well I hope all who do not approve of you dressing like a woman aren't as brutal and lacking in compassion as you. I hope you receive the same level of acceptance of others as you give.

As an after though many Catholics in Ireland also see the monarchy as terrorists with a brutal past.

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By *unterslickCouple
over a year ago

tullamore

"They were not fighting for the freedom of the majority in "their" country though? It was and still is majority unionist.

The Island of Ireland is 2 countries"

only because it was made that way,,that isnt meant as a bad statement,or to start an argument ,just a true statement

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Like the nazis... the nazis aren't forgiven, but surely nobody blames today's German youth for what happened back then and wouldn't shake hands with them?

Why do many English people feel its their right to intervene in how people in other countries run their OWN countries.

I have read the bollocks you have typed and realised you lack any real knowledge and understanding on the subject and probable feel very foolish yet are trying to save face. I would respectfully suggest you stick to fluff threads or ones you are possibly if you try hard might just understand.

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By *ove2-shareCouple
over a year ago

South Gloucestershire

"So how do you view the protestants opinion that it's also their country and should remain within the UK.Or don't they count?

Inerestingly the idea that there is a clear split between nationalist/republican/catholics on one side and loyalist/protestants on the other is simplistic, Wolfe Tone Was a protestant as were many of the early leaders of the rebellion at that time but opinions did polarise after the continued mistreatment of the catholic majority of Ireland by british soldiers and militant protestants in the 19th entury as well as the amount of wealth and power that gravitated towards the protestands in the northern shipyards. For many years the Ctholic majority were treated as third class citezens (behind the english and irish pritestants) in thier own country denied equal employment education, or political representation, whilst the militant section within the protestant community were able to make ireland ungovernable lest they got thier way, so i think thier views have definately been taken into account over the years.

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By *ouple in LancashireCouple
over a year ago

in Lancashire

Maybe a garden party at the palace for Al Queida will be sometime in the future.

If it gets to that and it stops the violence then fine tbh..

I have no doubt that 'our' representatives have already started talking about 'opening' channels with Al Quieda..

Its after dialogue which usually follows violence that progress is made and differences if not totally sorted then they are accommodated..

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By *londeCazWoman
over a year ago

Arse End of the Universe, Cumbria

Like the nazis... the nazis aren't forgiven, but surely nobody blames today's German youth for what happened back then and wouldn't shake hands with them?

Why do many English people feel its their right to intervene in how people in other countries run their OWN countries.

Didn't you notice that sleep tight bit?????

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By *adystephanieTV/TS
over a year ago

glos

Maybe a garden party at the palace for Al Queida will be sometime in the future.

If 'moving on' means allowing a callous, brutal and unrepentant animal such as this to breathe even the same air as The Queen then I must surely decline any invitation to be part of it ...

Well I hope all who do not approve of you dressing like a woman aren't as brutal and lacking in compassion as you. I hope you receive the same level of acceptance of others as you give.

As an after though many Catholics in Ireland also see the monarchy as terrorists with a brutal past. "

I have expressed my opinion but at this point I think I should mention that I am catholic and from Irish decent my family are from county roscommon which is in the South, I am speaking with a certain knowledge gained from both sides. I have stated only my dislike for this man and my sadness at the necessity to put him on a pedestal to meet a monarch.

I also feel it rather sad that you find it necessary to make a personal comment regarding my lifestyle which is has no relevance to the op

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

while i disagree with the queen shaking his hand i must say she has no say in this type of meeting its down to protocol as head of state with no power in the polotical process she is only a figure head

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

It's hard to keep quiet on this subject x given a choice I would refuse to meet him shake his hand etc x I'd be too frightened that I just would lose it and cause some very very damage x And suffering to him but even that ain't good enough for him

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

As much as I loath the Bogside Butcher, this can only do good.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Like the nazis... the nazis aren't forgiven, but surely nobody blames today's German youth for what happened back then and wouldn't shake hands with them?

Why do many English people feel its their right to intervene in how people in other countries run their OWN countries.

Whilst I agree with the drive of your argument, the Republican portion of Ulster is a minority (where the French resistance were a majority).

In that case the the landmass's of europe, asia, the america's could be seen as one country instead of the seperate countries that they are. Just because places are connected by a piece of land does not mean they are different.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I have read the bollocks you have typed and realised you lack any real knowledge and understanding on the subject and probable feel very foolish yet are trying to save face. I would respectfully suggest you stick to fluff threads or ones you are possibly if you try hard might just understand. "

Crickey, a bit of an arogant tit aren't you?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

" Those times are over, let them all rest in peace.

thats twice in a week wishy and i have agreed..wtf?"

well and truly over

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"If it were down to me, McGuiness and Adams would both be rotting in the Maze, but as it's not then I agree with Wishy regarding Her Maj being apolitical and us not wanting a return to The Troubles "

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I thought this is where all the arrogant tits hang out x

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Its easy to see who still has issue's, most people of Northern Ireland want peace. Yes most people have lost loved one's or have suffered in some way. Is it not better that OUR children can be brought up in peace rather than know the hatered that some people hold.

I know what i wish for!!!

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By *aucy3Couple
over a year ago

glasgow

"Its easy to see who still has issue's, most people of Northern Ireland want peace. Yes most people have lost loved one's or have suffered in some way. Is it not better that OUR children can be brought up in peace rather than know the hatered that some people hold.

I know what i wish for!!!"

please let this thought prevail.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

About 6 years ago,i was on my way home from working in Baku,Azerbijhan.

I had just walked in terminal 1 at Heathrow to get my connecting flight to

Belfast when someone bumped into me,before i could turn around the person apologised,it was none other than Jerry Adams,i must be one of the few Englishmen who has had an apology of

that murderess excuse for a man.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"They were not fighting for the freedom of the majority in "their" country though? It was and still is majority unionist.

The Island of Ireland is 2 countries

only because it was made that way,,that isnt meant as a bad statement,or to start an argument ,just a true statement"

Can someone please explain how all of the island of Ireland should be one country when all of it's inhabitants don't wish it to be so?

Declaring it one Ireland simply because it's surrounded by an unbroken body of water isn't a feasible argument for a unified state. On that basis you could take any block of land that is surrounded completely by water, the island of Britain for example, and declare it to be one country. We don't do that of course because the people who occupy the island of Britain don't want it to be one single country. This is the whole basis of the argument over the Falklands where the Falklanders don't wish to be Argentinian just because their island is closer to Argentina than it is to Britain.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I have been very wary (like others) of adding to this Thread because of the understandable passions involved.

I recall John Major was once asked why did he shake hands with people he hated or disliked and he replied "Sometimes you have to realise you have to swallow the bitter pill to achieve greater things or make a process or ambition for your country successful. You can always wash your hands afterwards."

He was of course referring to what became known as the Peace Process, something he had the huge political courage to start and develop.

I lost an older cousin in Armagh, shot by an IRA sniper. In those days families had to pay to bring loved ones home. My mother told me years after what he looked like and that it was horrendous for my family to see. But despite this she said we must always 'move onwards' and learn to live together even if we can't totally forgive. We should never forget of course.

So I think if the Queen can do what John Major said has to be done sometimes then we should support her and wish her well.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I know what i wish for!!!"

And me too. There can be no better reason for peace than that.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Who is Martin McGuinness?

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By *john121Man
over a year ago

staffs

[Removed by poster at 23/06/12 09:14:12]

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"They were not fighting for the freedom of the majority in "their" country though? It was and still is majority unionist.

The Island of Ireland is 2 countries

only because it was made that way,,that isnt meant as a bad statement,or to start an argument ,just a true statement

Can someone please explain how all of the island of Ireland should be one country when all of it's inhabitants don't wish it to be so?

That fact that Ireland used to be one country is irrelevant, the people living in Northern Ireland do not identify with the historic claims of the South as they consider themselves to be British, not Irish."
I was born and reared in South Armagh Northern Ireland and to do consider myself British. I'm Irish 100% and always will be, Yes i'm a British subject but thats as far as it goes

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

It's a dam disgrace thts all I'm gona say

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By *irtydanMan
over a year ago

Blackpool

"It's a dam disgrace thts all I'm gona say "
i agree i cant belive it whats the world coming to

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By *ouple in LancashireCouple
over a year ago

in Lancashire

"It's a dam disgrace thts all I'm gona say i agree i cant belive it whats the world coming to

its called politics or diplomacy or whatever you want to lable it..

but its better than the alternative, and the vast majority of good people in the province want peace so they must be listened to..

we all have to move on after war, conflict etc ...

unless you would prefer it to be back as it was?

you may not like it but its happening, its progress and its for all the right reasons..

forgive? no not personally, two tours in the 70's over there etc..

nor forget what went on...

time to move on, little 'steps' like this are part of that..

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By *unterslickCouple
over a year ago

tullamore

well im gettin just a little peed off about this,,and il say what i wanted to last night,,yes british soldiers/english people died in the north,,but so did irish people and not one soldier or politician who ordered beatings/wrongful arrests/and many other things have been brought before a court,

so lets just say its over and be done with it,,one of the mods should close this thread and put an end to the thread

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"well im gettin just a little peed off about this,,and il say what i wanted to last night,,yes british soldiers/english people died in the north,,but so did irish people and not one soldier or politician who ordered beatings/wrongful arrests/and many other things have been brought before a court,

so lets just say its over and be done with it,,one of the mods should close this thread and put an end to the thread"

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By *ild Bill Thickcock.Man
over a year ago

Wet Beaver Creek

One man's "Terrorist" is another man's "Freedom Fighter", the next step is politics, universal acceptance, then universal fame.

Depending where in the world you come from and your political persuasion people such as Nelsen Mandella are viewed in a similar vain

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

so lets just say its over and be done with it,,one of the mods should close this thread and put an end to the thread"

The true measure of how far the peace process has actually brought peace between Irish Republicans and British people is being able to discuss the Troubles without resorting to sides and/or name-calling. I'm aware that it will take another couple of generations to really lay the bad blood to rest once and for all, but that process has to start somewhere, and forums like these where people from both sides can mingle is just as good a place as any other.

I'm British, but I have no bad feeling towards Irish people at all (it's hard not be friends with the Irish when you grow up in a place like Luton!). Yes, I knew people who died in N.I., British as well as Irish but it seems like a lifetime ago now and we've moved on. Forgive and forget is not entirely possible just yet, but tolerance and understanding is the cement that keeps the peace, and in time forgiveness on both sides will lead to a lasting friendship between the two nations.

I doubt anyone will ever forget though, and in some ways I am glad of that as it ensures we will never go down that road again. (sorry for the cliches)

RIP to all those who died in the Troubles, and good health to all those who didn't.

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By *unterslickCouple
over a year ago

tullamore

so lets just say its over and be done with it,,one of the mods should close this thread and put an end to the thread

I doubt anyone will ever forget though, and in some ways I am glad of that as it ensures we will never go down that road again. (sorry for the cliches)

RIP to all those who died in the Troubles, and good health to all those who didn't."

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

so lets just say its over and be done with it,,one of the mods should close this thread and put an end to the thread

I doubt anyone will ever forget though, and in some ways I am glad of that as it ensures we will never go down that road again. (sorry for the cliches)

RIP to all those who died in the Troubles, and good health to all those who didn't."

Well spoken Wishy! Amen

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

so lets just say its over and be done with it,,one of the mods should close this thread and put an end to the thread

I doubt anyone will ever forget though, and in some ways I am glad of that as it ensures we will never go down that road again. (sorry for the cliches)

RIP to all those who died in the Troubles, and good health to all those who didn't.

Well spoken Wishy! Amen

And that about sums it up.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

he will waer a celtic shirt.

and the queen will have to find one as rangers no longer exist.

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By *unterslickCouple
over a year ago

tullamore

"he will waer a celtic shirt.

and the queen will have to find one as rangers no longer exist."

lol,,good way to lighten the ending mate

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By *un_JuiceCouple
over a year ago

Nr Chester

How can he forgive her atrocities

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"How can he forgive her atrocities"

That's a joke post, right?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"How can he forgive her atrocities"

I do hope that was a typo ...

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"As much as it sticks in my craw to say it, I think the meeting should go ahead as her majesty never embroils herself in political arguments (bearing in mind she lost a favoured uncle to an IRA bomb) and to refuse to meet McGuiness now would kick start an Anglo-Irish wrangle we really don't want to see again. Those times are over, let them all rest in peace."

Agreed . I came very close to losing my father at the Harrods bombing and consequently have no cause to love the IRA. But in my view,we should let bygones be bygones in the interests of ensuring that nobody in the UK or Ireland has to experience things like that again. Both Martin McGuinness and the Queen clearly share this view and personally I applaud them for demonstrating this.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Amen!

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By *ouple1234Couple
over a year ago

BELFAST UK

There has been alot of talk about someone from SF meeting the queen and dont be fooled its only being done to be seen as its part of the peace process in Northern Ireland and ireland and mainland uk, people might think there is peace over here as a few people have said, but the support for the IRA still there, i could write for hours on here why there is still no peace and why there will never be peace or a united ireland

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Well said have to agree totally this was a silly forum to put up in first place just be glad we are living in peaceul times now for our children and their children etc. it was a war and many people died and for what

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"There has been alot of talk about someone from SF meeting the queen and dont be fooled its only being done to be seen as its part of the peace process in Northern Ireland and ireland and mainland uk, people might think there is peace over here as a few people have said, but the support for the IRA still there, i could write for hours on here why there is still no peace and why there will never be peace or a united ireland"

I'd like to remind you who was the catalyst for peace in N.I. .. I clearly remember thousands of women - mothers, wives, girlfriends & daughters - who marched in Belfast in defiance of the PIRA. These women had seen enough killing and wanted an end to it. It was the Women for Peace movement (later to become the Community for Peace) that forced the British government and the IRA to start talking about peace. That march was of some 200 women initially, the next march involved 10,000 women of N.I. and the one after that brought 35,000 women of N.I. onto the streets to protest for peace.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Well that attitude will certaintly help things along won't it??

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

ok this is very very one sided and i don't give a crap if i get banned as with all things there comes a time to move on and bombs were not left by just one side in this but he happens to be the one she has to shake hands with if it was the other side would there be so much defence against i wonder

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"ok this is very very one sided and i don't give a crap if i get banned as with all things there comes a time to move on and bombs were not left by just one side in this but he happens to be the one she has to shake hands with if it was the other side would there be so much defence against i wonder"

Sooner this thread is closed the better!!!

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