FabSwingers.com forum: London

By *icketysplits OP Woman
over a year ago

Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound

A number of threads end up being about the perception that London gets it all, the streets are paved with gold and the rest of the country is being shafted London.

So, should London go down the Nation State route as Maurice Glasman argues?

What are the real North/South divide issues and can they be solved?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"A number of threads end up being about the perception that London gets it all, the streets are paved with gold and the rest of the country is being shafted London.

So, should London go down the Nation State route as Maurice Glasman argues?

What are the real North/South divide issues and can they be solved?

No but saying that if you have a half decent job up North your standard of life is far better.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

A nation state?

Nope its just in a state

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"A number of threads end up being about the perception that London gets it all, the streets are paved with gold and the rest of the country is being shafted London.

So, should London go down the Nation State route as Maurice Glasman argues?

What are the real North/South divide issues and can they be solved?

No but saying that if you have a half decent job up North your standard of life is far better.

True, but there are fewer & fewer decent jobs, and secondly, why is it necessary for so many jobs to be based in London anyway? Many can be performed anywhere in this day

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By *icketysplits OP Woman
over a year ago

Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound

No but saying that if you have a half decent job up North your standard of life is far better.

True, but there are fewer & fewer decent jobs, and secondly, why is it necessary for so many jobs to be based in London anyway? Many can be performed anywhere in this day"

I agree with both of these points. But whilst companies choose to locate their operations in London there will be jobs - it's what the free market is about isn't it? The only thing is that relatively you can't buy the same for the money that is paid and you are more likely to be competing for the job against people living in other parts of the country, of Europe or the rest of the world.

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By *atureFem4FunWoman
over a year ago

Petts Wood

I'm sure if the Worlds leading companies that have offices and UK headquarters in London would have chosen to have those same offices in other cities in the UK instead....if they thought it would be of benefit to them.

No-one forced them to base themselves in London....they chose to for their own reasons.

Being the Capital City it's not therefore unusual for leading companies to choose to base themselves in London.

London has it's own micro economy, the income that derives from the City benefits the whole nation.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I'm sure if the Worlds leading companies that have offices and UK headquarters in London would have chosen to have those same offices in other cities in the UK instead....if they thought it would be of benefit to them.

No-one forced them to base themselves in London....they chose to for their own reasons.

Being the Capital City it's not therefore unusual for leading companies to choose to base themselves in London.

London has it's own micro economy, the income that derives from the City benefits the whole nation."

I'm sure Red Ken would love to be his own little despot of Londonland - good job Londerners got rid of him eh?

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By *acreadCouple
over a year ago

central scotland

No-one forced them to base themselves in London....they chose to for their own reasons.

Being the Capital City it's not therefore unusual for leading companies to choose to base themselves in London.

London has it's own micro economy, the income that derives from the City benefits the whole nation."

All that money and its still by far the most heavily susidised region of the UK.

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By *acreadCouple
over a year ago

central scotland

No-one forced them to base themselves in London....they chose to for their own reasons.

Being the Capital City it's not therefore unusual for leading companies to choose to base themselves in London.

London has it's own micro economy, the income that derives from the City benefits the whole nation.

I'm sure Red Ken would love to be his own little despot of Londonland - good job Londerners got rid of him eh?"

Now they only need to get rid of that other prize clown Boris.

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By *atureFem4FunWoman
over a year ago

Petts Wood

No-one forced them to base themselves in London....they chose to for their own reasons.

Being the Capital City it's not therefore unusual for leading companies to choose to base themselves in London.

London has it's own micro economy, the income that derives from the City benefits the whole nation.

All that money and its still by far the most heavily susidised region of the UK."

It by far generates the largest income...it also has by far the greatest tourist influx....money needs to be spent to maintain and improve the infrastructure to cope with both the local population and the tourists.

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By *icketysplits OP Woman
over a year ago

Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound

"London has it's own micro economy, the income that derives from the City benefits the whole nation.

All that money and its still by far the most heavily susidised region of the UK.

You got there before me... It's not just Londoner's and tourists that infrastructure is supporting but also the commuters who work in London but whose local taxes support where they live rather than where they spend most of their time.

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By *waymanMan
over a year ago

newcastle

No-one forced them to base themselves in London....they chose to for their own reasons.

Being the Capital City it's not therefore unusual for leading companies to choose to base themselves in London.

London has it's own micro economy, the income that derives from the City benefits the whole nation.

All that money and its still by far the most heavily susidised region of the UK.

That's the kind of fallacy scum like Glasman sign up to.

If London became a nation state then companies domiciled there would pay tax on their activities in London in London, and on their activities in the rest of the UK in the rest of the UK.

Scum like Glasman haven't got the brains to realise that.He would expect the rest of us to allow London to be Monaco for ugly people. Before he plans that kind of bullshit he might want to ask how many oil refineries, reservoirs and power stations remain in London these days.

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By *atureFem4FunWoman
over a year ago

Petts Wood

No-one forced them to base themselves in London....they chose to for their own reasons.

Being the Capital City it's not therefore unusual for leading companies to choose to base themselves in London.

London has it's own micro economy, the income that derives from the City benefits the whole nation.

All that money and its still by far the most heavily susidised region of the UK.

That's the kind of fallacy scum like Glasman sign up to.

If London became a nation state then companies domiciled there would pay tax on their activities in London in London, and on their activities in the rest of the UK in the rest of the UK.

Angry.....again?

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By *waymanMan
over a year ago

newcastle

No-one forced them to base themselves in London....they chose to for their own reasons.

Being the Capital City it's not therefore unusual for leading companies to choose to base themselves in London.

London has it's own micro economy, the income that derives from the City benefits the whole nation.

All that money and its still by far the most heavily susidised region of the UK.

That's the kind of fallacy scum like Glasman sign up to.

If London became a nation state then companies domiciled there would pay tax on their activities in London in London, and on their activities in the rest of the UK in the rest of the UK.

Angry.....again?"
No, accurate. Feel free to complain to the mods if you don't like my style.

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By *ayjay218Man
over a year ago

Aberdeen

Airports!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Sky News should be renamed London News , im not even from the UK and i know more about whats happening in London than my own city

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By *atureFem4FunWoman
over a year ago

Petts Wood

No-one forced them to base themselves in London....they chose to for their own reasons.

Being the Capital City it's not therefore unusual for leading companies to choose to base themselves in London.

London has it's own micro economy, the income that derives from the City benefits the whole nation.

All that money and its still by far the most heavily susidised region of the UK.

That's the kind of fallacy scum like Glasman sign up to.

If London became a nation state then companies domiciled there would pay tax on their activities in London in London, and on their activities in the rest of the UK in the rest of the UK.

Angry.....again?No, accurate. Feel free to complain to the mods if you don't like my style."

Complain about what?.....I actually find your constant anger rather entertaining....

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By *atureFem4FunWoman
over a year ago

Petts Wood

[Removed by poster at 18/06/12 22:50:43]

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By *atureFem4FunWoman
over a year ago

Petts Wood

"Sky News should be renamed London News , im not even from the UK and i know more about whats happening in London than my own city

It's our Capital city....you could always watch your local news....for local news stories

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Scum like Glasman haven't got the brains to realise that."

That's a bit strong isn't it? To call a man 'scum' just being a bit of a loon is just not very nice. Having just had a quick read up on the guy (had never heard of him before now) it seems that as one of Miliband's policy advisers he is perfectly placed to keep Labour where they are right now - in opposition.

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By *lubPartyPeepsCouple
over a year ago

London

Lived here most of my life and less and less a fan of it as time has gone on.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Lived here most of my life and less and less a fan of it as time has gone on.

We moved out when I was 4. Still have family in London but it's just not the same place as when I was a nipper, especially the area we came from, Hammersmith.

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By *icketysplits OP Woman
over a year ago

Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound

"Lived here most of my life and less and less a fan of it as time has gone on.

What's not to love? If you moved out where would your idyll be?

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By *atureFem4FunWoman
over a year ago

Petts Wood

I choose not to live and work in the London area anymore....but it will always be home for me....somewhere deep in my heart.

It's not the same as it once was....but nowhere is if we were to be totally honest.

I wouldn't have anywhere else as our Capital City though

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

All that money and its still by far the most heavily susidised region of the UK."

I am sorry but I just had to smile at a Scottish person saying that. Scotland and its inhabitants get a higher 'per capita' subsidy than England. And London will attract investment in infrastructure simply because of the demand from people, companies and industries moving there. That is not the same as a subsidy and I think you'll find London in total is a huge nett contributor to the British economy (and I include Scotland as British. At least for the time being.)

"Now they only need to get rid of that other prize clown Boris"

Ah so you aren't actually in Central Scotland then. You are in London? And listened to all the debates and campaigning from all the candidates? And understand all the local issues as well as Londoners?

I doubt it so please respect the democratic wishes of Londoners. They (unlike you) experienced life under Ken and Boris as Mayors and then chose to stay with Boris. Prize Clown indeed....

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Scum like Glasman haven't got the brains to realise that.

Oh believe me Wishy, this is tame for Mr Awayman....

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By *waymanMan
over a year ago

newcastle

No-one forced them to base themselves in London....they chose to for their own reasons.

Being the Capital City it's not therefore unusual for leading companies to choose to base themselves in London.

London has it's own micro economy, the income that derives from the City benefits the whole nation.

All that money and its still by far the most heavily susidised region of the UK.

That's the kind of fallacy scum like Glasman sign up to.

If London became a nation state then companies domiciled there would pay tax on their activities in London in London, and on their activities in the rest of the UK in the rest of the UK.

Angry.....again?No, accurate. Feel free to complain to the mods if you don't like my style.

Complain about what?.....I actually find your constant anger rather entertaining...."
Your chippy and inaccurate assumptions about my moods don't actually add to any of the threads you bring them to. All you do is try and drag each thread down into an argument about your assumptions about me instead of being about the issues.

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By *waymanMan
over a year ago

newcastle

"Scum like Glasman haven't got the brains to realise that.

That's where I have the advantage of you. I have met him, and read his recent writings extensively. He is the kind of right wing opportunist, masquerading as a 'traditional' Labour supporter, who would pander to racism and discrimination in order to see Labour back in power.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Scum like Glasman haven't got the brains to realise that.

It looks very much he's shot himself in the foot by calling for a complete halt to immigration, even if for only a limited period - which in itself isn't pandering to the BNP as it reflects the attitudes of a good proportion of the UK electorate - his own goal came in not realising that his enemies would use it to label him a racist, and that's something New Labour have done to ANYONE who expresses a view of retaining our culture and giving British people rights to British jobs above foreign settlers.

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By *he tactile technicianMan
over a year ago

the good lands, the bad lands, the any where you may want me lands

London is an exceptionally vibrant city, cosmopolitan in every strand of diversity, a world leader in being a visitor attraction, and a destination where many aspire to work and live; including other Brits from the regions, Scotland, Eire, and Wales.

Whether people consider Boris a clown, or Red Ken militant for his historic battles with Maggie Thatcher they have contributed with many others; native Londoners, or migrant Londoners, in making London the modern global city that it is and always will be.

Fortunately our incumbant Mayor is both realistic and imaginary in seeing the need for change and the necessity for devolution. His proposals to devolve the London region of the Homes and Communities Agency (HCA) to the GLA and the functions of the London Development Agency (LDA) absorbed into the GLA as well are a start resulting in a London housing and regeneration body as an executive arm of the GLA and the LDA would cease to exist as a separate body, although the functions would continue.

In additionBoris proposes that the Olympic Park Legacy Company (OPLC) should be reformed as a Mayoral Development Corporation, reporting directly to the Mayor and democratically accountable to Londoners. There are currently seven bodies contributing to the regeneration of the Stratford and Lower Lea Valley which causes huge duplication and confusion.

The Mayor also proposes that responsibility for the Royal Parks Agency and the Port of London Authority should be devolved from Whitehall to the Mayor. Other proposals include giving the GLA greater powers over traffic control and the awarding of rail franchises on routes into London.

Such proposals for a greater say over the issues that are important to Londoners, including devolving more powers to the boroughs. Boris’s vision is for a streamlined GLA group more fit for purpose through the removal of needless bureaucracy and overlapping functions across all London and its public bodies – A modern London!

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By *acreadCouple
over a year ago

central scotland

All that money and its still by far the most heavily susidised region of the UK.

Now they only need to get rid of that other prize clown Boris

I doubt it so please respect the democratic wishes of Londoners. They (unlike you) experienced life under Ken and Boris as Mayors and then chose to stay with Boris. Prize Clown indeed...."

I take it you believe the myth as told by the media that Scotland is the most heavily subsidised instead of researching the facts yourself.

Succesive governments purposely hid ht efacts relating to Scotlands wealth and still do now go and read for youself.

I dont need to live in London to see Boris is a clown.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Well I prefer to take the opinions of the guy who instigated the way it is calculated. Mr (as was and now Lord I think) Barnet is on record as saying what was a temporary measure has been in place too long and is unjust and unfair in adding in areas of land as opposed to purely population numbers in the calculations. He has confirmed that the Scots do indeed receive more public money 'per capita' than the English ..or indeed the Welsh. Northern Ireland being a totally unique are for obvious reasons.

So in answer to your question no I haven't been duped by the 'media' and I will find the actual published government numbers and add it to the Thread later.

Well actually yes you do need to live in London and see at first hand what the Mayor does, how he manages things and how his policies work or don't work to judge the man. Or are you falling victim to your own criticism and letting the media do your thinking that Boris is 'a clown'.

In this one Thread we have the lefties yet again sinking to abusive comments ...'Scum like Glasman' ..and 'Boris is a clown' which really add nothing to the debate. I do of course refrain from mentioning 'Wallace & Grommet'.....

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By *icketysplits OP Woman
over a year ago

Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound

Just to re-assert my original questions, would the rest of the country be happy to see London fend for itself from it's own revenues?

Those that argue London is over-subsidised to the detriment of the rest of the UK would, logically, see a redistribution of funds to their regions. Or, would there be an overall net loss without London's revenues?

Would the finance sector and multinationals move out and go to wherever the new capital city would be?

Where should be the new capital?

Thanks for the comments so far, predictable and otherwise.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

ha ha, you cannot "declare" a new capital city. A capital grows into a capital organically and we have other important cities in the UK already.

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By *ushroom7Man
over a year ago

Bradford

"ha ha, you cannot "declare" a new capital city. A capital grows into a capital organically and we have other important cities in the UK already."

Brazil?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"ha ha, you cannot "declare" a new capital city. A capital grows into a capital organically and we have other important cities in the UK already.

Brazil?"

nuts?

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By *ushroom7Man
over a year ago

Bradford

"ha ha, you cannot "declare" a new capital city. A capital grows into a capital organically and we have other important cities in the UK already.

Brazil?

nuts?"

Two.

Nigeria maybe.

I'm sure others have too.

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By *icketysplits OP Woman
over a year ago

Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound

"ha ha, you cannot "declare" a new capital city. A capital grows into a capital organically and we have other important cities in the UK already.

Brazil?

nuts?"

Didn't someone already state that London is nuts? Might have been pants...

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

from small acorns ...........

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

It's been mentioned before but as someone who lives on the outskirts of London but who spends the vast majority of their time in town due to work, I think we should get some say in the mayoral elections. Even if it's just to have a say in transport and business issues.

As for a free state I would hate for that to happen, where would it end? Whatever part of the UK you're from you should be proud of our country, no matter how bad things sometimes look. I don't mean proud in a BNP xenophobic way but proud of what all the regions and people bring that make this country great.

Most of all I wish my trains were more reliable and that I could sit down!

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By *icketysplits OP Woman
over a year ago

Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound

"It's been mentioned before but as someone who lives on the outskirts of London but who spends the vast majority of their time in town due to work, I think we should get some say in the mayoral elections. Even if it's just to have a say in transport and business issues.

Most of all I wish my trains were more reliable and that I could sit down!"

I agree with a lot of what you say. On the point about commuters having a say... in some ways they do. Business certainly does.

Businesses in the City vote for the Corporation of London, which is part of London Councils and London Councils meet and work with the Mayor a fair bit. Additionally, the Mayor's various boards are quite heavily weighted to the business community.

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By *icketysplits OP Woman
over a year ago

Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound

"ha ha, you cannot "declare" a new capital city. A capital grows into a capital organically and we have other important cities in the UK already."

Absolutely! Look at those countries where the capital is not the organic and natural capital - no one wants to be there.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

[Removed by poster at 20/06/12 11:29:52]

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"ha ha, you cannot "declare" a new capital city. A capital grows into a capital organically and we have other important cities in the UK already.

Absolutely! Look at those countries where the capital is not the organic and natural capital - no one wants to be there."

Ah you've been to Canberra then ...

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"ha ha, you cannot "declare" a new capital city. A capital grows into a capital organically and we have other important cities in the UK already.

Absolutely! Look at those countries where the capital is not the organic and natural capital - no one wants to be there.

Ah you've been to Canberra then ...

Ha ha I said the same thing before but removed the comment.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Bonn was the same but there were extenuating circumstances ..

But spliting Berlin in 2 in the middle of East Germany makes the point about the importance of Capital Cities.

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By *icketysplits OP Woman
over a year ago

Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound

"Bonn was the same but there were extenuating circumstances ..

But spliting Berlin in 2 in the middle of East Germany makes the point about the importance of Capital Cities."

I couldn't quite bring myself to visit Canberra but I have been to other capitals lacking in soul. The Berlin point is good - I hadn't London in those terms.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Bonn was the same but there were extenuating circumstances ..

But spliting Berlin in 2 in the middle of East Germany makes the point about the importance of Capital Cities.

I couldn't quite bring myself to visit Canberra but I have been to other capitals lacking in soul. The Berlin point is good - I hadn't London in those terms."

You did yourself a favour by not visiting Canberra it is a very boring city.

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By *icketysplits OP Woman
over a year ago

Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound

I have just seen on the news that there is a poll showing Londoners would like independence now.

Will other areas of the country start want referenda to go their own way?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Would it not just be easier to ask those parts of the country that we don't want to go and join the Scots?? Maybe anything north of Oxfordshire....??

On a serious note we have a GREAT Britain, I know it is easy to slag it off, but this is a brilliant country full of brilliant people and I hope the Scots, the Welsh, the Irish and everyone else sees the value in keeping it together.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

What really winds me up about London is that when a major transport scheme like HS2 is announced, it is always to make it easier to travel to London. Why not spend the money involved in improving the economy in other parts of the country so business people do not have to London.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I hope that Scotland votes for independence, must be something good in it if all those tossers are desperate to keep us as one nation. Their rich friends must be flapping about losing money and influence.

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By *icketysplits OP Woman
over a year ago

Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound

"Would it not just be easier to ask those parts of the country that we don't want to go and join the Scots?? Maybe anything north of Oxfordshire....??

I would prefer Great Britain to remain united but Scotland has reawakened the devolution through to independence debates again.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I guess growing dissolution with a London focused political/financial/social elite who have very little in common with anyone north of Watford has an awful lot to do with it. The fact that is taken David Cameron until the last week to make an appearance in Scotland and only because he is panicking says it all really.

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By *icketysplits OP Woman
over a year ago

Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound

"I guess growing dissolution with a London focused political/financial/social elite who have very little in common with anyone north of Watford has an awful lot to do with it. The fact that is taken David Cameron until the last week to make an appearance in Scotland and only because he is panicking says it all really."

I always felt he should have agreed to the debates when asked at the beginning. His role was to speak on behalf of the rest of the country and he has taken his time to recognise that.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I always felt he should have agreed to the debates when asked at the beginning. His role was to speak on behalf of the rest of the country and he has taken his time to recognise that.

I could see the point of letting a Scotsman with cross party support do the debate, but Cameron should have been up, meeting the people and telling them how much he valued them as part of the nation. He should have had the balls to hear all the complaints and offer solutions. A bit like in a relationship, if someone doesn't feel valued and is never told how much they are loved, they might start to think the grass is greener elsewhere.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

And what currency would Londoners use? The banks, ie the people that make the money for London would just pull out and move North. Bring it on

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I always felt he should have agreed to the debates when asked at the beginning. His role was to speak on behalf of the rest of the country and he has taken his time to recognise that.

They were right to keep out of it, no-one likes any of them. Eck wanted them up in Scotland purely because they were so hated and is now rubbing his hands with glee. I feel that DC and the other leaders decision to visit this week will be the final nail in a disastrous No campaign. Polls tomorrow will put Yes at least 10 points ahead I suspect.

So when I get back from Hols on the weekend I best start packing again.

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By *icketysplits OP Woman
over a year ago

Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound

"And what currency would Londoners use? The banks, ie the people that make the money for London would just pull out and move North. Bring it on"

Thankfully, I think this is one that is never likely to make it to referendum stage as London's population changes so much.

Baron Glasman is amusing to listen to, sometimes.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"A number of threads end up being about the perception that London gets it all, the streets are paved with gold and the rest of the country is being shafted London.

So, should London go down the Nation State route as Maurice Glasman argues?

What are the real North/South divide issues and can they be solved?

London would be some what fucked if it did that.

Having to import near enough 100 percent of its food, water and energy and also being a captive market so easily exploited.

It would also have to pay for the export of all its garbage, waste etc.

A city can't survive without its country just as a country can't survive without its cities.

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London - a nation state