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"just talk, not always easy but it stops resentment building up" That's the crux of the thing really... But what if your partner can't or won't talk about it? | |||
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"i think men can separate sex and love far more easily than ladies...So sex as a hobby is a concept i understand. "Obviously a broad generalisation, as many ladies do have the ability as well, but do you think the general view in society is headed that way? | |||
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"For me, one thing that is great about being poly is the removal of the pressure to fulfill all of your partners needs and sex is a part of that. It's nice to know that my sexual partners can have sex with me because they want to, not because they feel obligated to as they are my only source of sexual fulfilment. " I will admit that I find poly relationships quite difficult to get my head around, which is my own failing. But the sexual aspect of the relationship, as you've described nicely, seems to be what I'm talking about. I'd be interested to chat more if you would? | |||
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"I think this is a really interesting and healthy way to view sexuality and could remove much of the pressure, guilt and reponsibilty that can often circulate around sex within a committed relationship. Nice one OP." Thanks Puddles. That's really what I'm getting at. The removal of those feelings would make relationships easier to negotiate I would think. | |||
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"I definitely think like this. Sex is an activity that requires a partner, a bit like tennis. I might have a mixed doubles partner that I play with regularly and we get to learn each other’s game. It doesn’t stop me playing with others occasionally too. " And that's the short winded way I should have put it  | |||
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"For me, one thing that is great about being poly is the removal of the pressure to fulfill all of your partners needs and sex is a part of that. It's nice to know that my sexual partners can have sex with me because they want to, not because they feel obligated to as they are my only source of sexual fulfilment. I will admit that I find poly relationships quite difficult to get my head around, which is my own failing. But the sexual aspect of the relationship, as you've described nicely, seems to be what I'm talking about. I'd be interested to chat more if you would? " It's not a failing! They're an alien concept to many and there is a lot of misunderstanding, not helped by the way polyamory is usually portrayed in documentaries and the media. Of course  . | |||
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"Good points OP. I think there’s a certain type of married sex that sits outside of that and if more couples went on marriage courses, with other couples they would learn a lot about that and learn to talk and adventure again - we did! But also agree sex outside of your main relationship / marriage could be viewed as a hobby that one person enjoys more that the other based on interest and sex drive. Even swinging as a couple you want different things and one will want more of it that the other" I completely agree. I do think that there is a certain type of sex within a relationship that would always be special. For want of a better term, love making. And that's the part that should always be special to the couple. Obviously don't answer if you prefer, and I'm throwing this out to the other couples reading as well, how did you broach the subject of swinging and at what point in your relationship? Was it a difficult thing to start talking about? | |||
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"I'm about to finish reading The Ethical Slut, and it talks a lot about changing our perception of love and sex being a scarce resource to being an abundant one. The more love and sex we give and share the more we open our hearts and lives to receive. They talk about a slut utopia where we all create not just romantic life-partners through sex and intimacy, but friends, familites, communities and tribes. Recreational sex that's shared and explored, not exclusively to make babies and consumate marriages, but to socialise and have fun - pleasure for its own sake. Reminds me of another great book I read called Sex at Dawn, and the fact that we're evolved from Bonobos - apes that have and share sex together as a way to play, socialise and forge and strengthen friendships and their entire community. Unfortunately, the religious and socio-cultural programming around love and sex over the last few thousand years are still deeply, strongly embedded within our society." Damn I felt that first paragraph in my soul. | |||
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"I'm about to finish reading The Ethical Slut, and it talks a lot about changing our perception of love and sex being a scarce resource to being an abundant one. The more love and sex we give and share the more we open our hearts and lives to receive. They talk about a slut utopia where we all create not just romantic life-partners through sex and intimacy, but friends, familites, communities and tribes. Recreational sex that's shared and explored, not exclusively to make babies and consumate marriages, but to socialise and have fun - pleasure for its own sake. Reminds me of another great book I read called Sex at Dawn, and the fact that we're evolved from Bonobos - apes that have and share sex together as a way to play, socialise and forge and strengthen friendships and their entire community. Unfortunately, the religious and socio-cultural programming around love and sex over the last few thousand years are still deeply, strongly embedded within our society." Do you think the world would be better if the programming were reversed? I really should read those two books.... I think I'd enjoy them   | |||
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"my last two partners enjoyed a drink with their mates. I suggested that when they did that i would go and have sex with my male friend's. They werent happy.but i thought that there was no harm in it." This is the sort of thing I am talking about. If your exes had agreed that it was a fine idea do you think you might still be with either one? | |||
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"Damn I felt that first paragraph in my soul." 3 x | |||
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"Damn I felt that first paragraph in my soul. 3 x" Was supposed to be a heart: 3 x | |||
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"I'm about to finish reading The Ethical Slut, and it talks a lot about changing our perception of love and sex being a scarce resource to being an abundant one. The more love and sex we give and share the more we open our hearts and lives to receive. They talk about a slut utopia where we all create not just romantic life-partners through sex and intimacy, but friends, familites, communities and tribes. Recreational sex that's shared and explored, not exclusively to make babies and consumate marriages, but to socialise and have fun - pleasure for its own sake. Reminds me of another great book I read called Sex at Dawn, and the fact that we're evolved from Bonobos - apes that have and share sex together as a way to play, socialise and forge and strengthen friendships and their entire community. Unfortunately, the religious and socio-cultural programming around love and sex over the last few thousand years are still deeply, strongly embedded within our society. Do you think the world would be better if the programming were reversed? I really should read those two books.... I think I'd enjoy them "I've not read the whole book but I've read a lot of extracts from the Ethical Slut and they were fantastic! | |||
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"Good points OP. I think there’s a certain type of married sex that sits outside of that and if more couples went on marriage courses, with other couples they would learn a lot about that and learn to talk and adventure again - we did! But also agree sex outside of your main relationship / marriage could be viewed as a hobby that one person enjoys more that the other based on interest and sex drive. Even swinging as a couple you want different things and one will want more of it that the other I completely agree. I do think that there is a certain type of sex within a relationship that would always be special. For want of a better term, love making. And that's the part that should always be special to the couple. Obviously don't answer if you prefer, and I'm throwing this out to the other couples reading as well, how did you broach the subject of swinging and at what point in your relationship? Was it a difficult thing to start talking about? " I think like others we know , after far too many years!!! but from a place of security and happiness rather than to fix something. We flirted with the idea over years, trips to Amsterdam & Thailand, live sex shows, introducing kink, d*unken conversations and snogs with friends and then finally the next level - visit s club and see other “normal” people doing it openly. What you realise once you talk about it openly, after a proper full swap, is both were up for it all along and saw it as just sex, but always assumed the other would see it as a betrayal. We still still this tension with so many couples that do swing but aren’t open or poly. | |||
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"Damn I felt that first paragraph in my soul. 3 x Was supposed to be a heart: 3 x" Try ( love ) without the spaces | |||
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" I think like others we know , after far too many years!!! but from a place of security and happiness rather than to fix something. We flirted with the idea over years, trips to Amsterdam & Thailand, live sex shows, introducing kink, d*unken conversations and snogs with friends and then finally the next level - visit s club and see other “normal” people doing it openly. What you realise once you talk about it openly, after a proper full swap, is both were up for it all along and saw it as just sex, but always assumed the other would see it as a betrayal. We still still this tension with so many couples that do swing but aren’t open or poly." Thank you for the insight into your relationship. I'm always so pleased to hear that I occasionally don't ramble utter rubbish, and that it came from security and happiness. I can imagine with many couples the conversation does not come from such a place and that's when cracks appear. | |||
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"Damn I felt that first paragraph in my soul. 3 x Was supposed to be a heart: 3 x" Dammit... can't post the greater than/less than symbols? Weird. "Do you think the world would be better if the programming were reversed? I really should read those two books.... I think I'd enjoy them "Yes I recommend them both to everyone. And yes, I believe the world would be a better place. Lifelong sexual exclusivity / monogamous marriage is just not fit for purpose for most humans. As animals, we are like the bonobos; we are sluts. This is not me saying monogamy is wrong, or that it cannot work for anyone. Of course not. But we should all be raised in a culture/society where all the cards are laid in front of us and we're all fully aware of our relationship choices from day one. Too many of us just choose unconsciously the lifelong monogamous life - without even realising there are other options. This leads to infidelity, lies, cheating, misery, divorce, broken homes, heartbreak... Of course, polyamory isn't some magic cure for all of that. I just think everyone needs to go into these things with full awareness and then our choices, whatever they may be, will be more authentic to our souls and our happiness. | |||
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"Damn I felt that first paragraph in my soul. 3 x Was supposed to be a heart: 3 x Dammit... can't post the greater than/less than symbols? Weird. Do you think the world would be better if the programming were reversed? I really should read those two books.... I think I'd enjoy them
Yes I recommend them both to everyone. And yes, I believe the world would be a better place. Lifelong sexual exclusivity / monogamous marriage is just not fit for purpose for most humans. As animals, we are like the bonobos; we are sluts. This is not me saying monogamy is wrong, or that it cannot work for anyone. Of course not. But we should all be raised in a culture/society where all the cards are laid in front of us and we're all fully aware of our relationship choices from day one. Too many of us just choose unconsciously the lifelong monogamous life - without even realising there are other options. This leads to infidelity, lies, cheating, misery, divorce, broken homes, heartbreak...
Of course, polyamory isn't some magic cure for all of that. I just think everyone needs to go into these things with full awareness and then our choices, whatever they may be, will be more authentic to our souls and our happiness."Yes!! Monogamy should be an option, not the default. | |||
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"Damn I felt that first paragraph in my soul. 3 x Was supposed to be a heart: 3 x Dammit... can't post the greater than/less than symbols? Weird. Do you think the world would be better if the programming were reversed? I really should read those two books.... I think I'd enjoy them
Yes I recommend them both to everyone. And yes, I believe the world would be a better place. Lifelong sexual exclusivity / monogamous marriage is just not fit for purpose for most humans. As animals, we are like the bonobos; we are sluts. This is not me saying monogamy is wrong, or that it cannot work for anyone. Of course not. But we should all be raised in a culture/society where all the cards are laid in front of us and we're all fully aware of our relationship choices from day one. Too many of us just choose unconsciously the lifelong monogamous life - without even realising there are other options. This leads to infidelity, lies, cheating, misery, divorce, broken homes, heartbreak...
Of course, polyamory isn't some magic cure for all of that. I just think everyone needs to go into these things with full awareness and then our choices, whatever they may be, will be more authentic to our souls and our happiness."If only there were a magic cure! I don't believe that a fully poly life would work for me, but I'm hoping to learn more from people such as Lacey Red and anyone else who would be happy to share their lives with me in the name of understanding. I think you've hit the nail I was aiming at on the head though. Its not necessarily the sex that the wronged party has issue with, its the dishonesty in many cases. | |||
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"Damn I felt that first paragraph in my soul. 3 x Was supposed to be a heart: 3 x Dammit... can't post the greater than/less than symbols? Weird. Do you think the world would be better if the programming were reversed? I really should read those two books.... I think I'd enjoy them
Yes I recommend them both to everyone. And yes, I believe the world would be a better place. Lifelong sexual exclusivity / monogamous marriage is just not fit for purpose for most humans. As animals, we are like the bonobos; we are sluts. This is not me saying monogamy is wrong, or that it cannot work for anyone. Of course not. But we should all be raised in a culture/society where all the cards are laid in front of us and we're all fully aware of our relationship choices from day one. Too many of us just choose unconsciously the lifelong monogamous life - without even realising there are other options. This leads to infidelity, lies, cheating, misery, divorce, broken homes, heartbreak...
Of course, polyamory isn't some magic cure for all of that. I just think everyone needs to go into these things with full awareness and then our choices, whatever they may be, will be more authentic to our souls and our happiness.
If only there were a magic cure!
I don't believe that a fully poly life would work for me, but I'm hoping to learn more from people such as Lacey Red and anyone else who would be happy to share their lives with me in the name of understanding.
I think you've hit the nail I was aiming at on the head though. Its not necessarily the sex that the wronged party has issue with, its the dishonesty in many cases. "Yep! Many people find it odd I can be happily non-monogamous despite being cheated on in the past. My partners are open and honest with me though and are committed to us living the way we do in a way that doesn't hurt anyone. It was the betrayal and lies that hurt with the cheating, not the sex. | |||
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"I think everyone's different and has different attitudes to sex and love. In my opinion the best way to move forward is to accept that some are able to separate love and sex and some aren't and to encourage people to discuss their attitudes openly. I don't think trying to replace one way of thinking with another is the way forward. " Completely, I don't think that my thinking, such as it is, is a cure all. There will always be other ways of thinking and that's beautiful. Your point about encouraging people to talk about their attitude and views is really the idea. I think if more people discussed such things before committing to each other, and discovered whether the other person had the same views, they could be happier. But I am aware not everyone can or is comfortable doing so. | |||
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"If only there were a magic cure! I don't believe that a fully poly life would work for me, but I'm hoping to learn more from people such as Lacey Red and anyone else who would be happy to share their lives with me in the name of understanding. I think you've hit the nail I was aiming at on the head though. Its not necessarily the sex that the wronged party has issue with, its the dishonesty in many cases." Precisely that. Sure there may be some surface-level insecurity feelings around the physical act, but it's the deceit that cuts deep, that damages trust. The cheater didn't do it to be cruel, or because they no longer love the cheatee. But they hide it beacuse they've been taught - by religion, by modern society - that they have to. That there's no other way. Thus; you get two assumptions around poly. People will either say; "oh, so it's just like cheating, then", or they'll say; "oh great! So you can't ever cheat, then". Wrong on both counts. Open, ethical non-monogamy is the exact opposite of cheating. However, poly / ENM people can (and do) still lie and hide things from their partners - which is cheating. | |||
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"This is exactly how I view it. I openly admit that I can share physically but not emotionally, which is why I could never be in a polyamorous relationship. " My thoughts entirely as well. Emotional connection for me has always been with one person, and I don't anticipate that changing. | |||
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"I think everyone's different and has different attitudes to sex and love. In my opinion the best way to move forward is to accept that some are able to separate love and sex and some aren't and to encourage people to discuss their attitudes openly. I don't think trying to replace one way of thinking with another is the way forward. Completely, I don't think that my thinking, such as it is, is a cure all. There will always be other ways of thinking and that's beautiful. Your point about encouraging people to talk about their attitude and views is really the idea. I think if more people discussed such things before committing to each other, and discovered whether the other person had the same views, they could be happier. But I am aware not everyone can or is comfortable doing so. " It's difficult I agree. The older I get the more I think we should be much more business like in our approach to relationships. | |||
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"If only there were a magic cure! I don't believe that a fully poly life would work for me, but I'm hoping to learn more from people such as Lacey Red and anyone else who would be happy to share their lives with me in the name of understanding. I think you've hit the nail I was aiming at on the head though. Its not necessarily the sex that the wronged party has issue with, its the dishonesty in many cases. Precisely that. Sure there may be some surface-level insecurity feelings around the physical act, but it's the deceit that cuts deep, that damages trust. The cheater didn't do it to be cruel, or because they no longer love the cheatee. But they hide it beacuse they've been taught - by religion, by modern society - that they have to. That there's no other way. Thus; you get two assumptions around poly. People will either say; "oh, so it's just like cheating, then", or they'll say; "oh great! So you can't ever cheat, then". Wrong on both counts. Open, ethical non-monogamy is the exact opposite of cheating. However, poly / ENM people can (and do) still lie and hide things from their partners - which is cheating." And precisely this again. You do hit those nails. I would say however, that there are some people for whom the sneaking and the control over their partner's emotions, in a negative way, is part of their joy. I hope that it's only the few though | |||
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"I'd like to share a little of my story in the hope that it clears up my position, please forgive the indulgence. My ex husband and I were sex free for over a year due to the fact that my back was falling apart and for various reasons sex came off the table, due to me (and I'm not wanting to hurt me further physically) . I thought he was playing away, and asked him on a number of occasions over about 8 months. Each time he denied it. Eventually, I became certain he was lying to me and through various means found proof. He denied it right up to the point where I called her from his phone in front of him on speaker and she answered with "I'm so fucking wet for you, how long will it be before you can get away". Obviously he then stopped denying it. I was hurt and angry. But I quickly realised I didn't care about the sex. It was the lies. And I've had 12 years to consider it, and I still firmly believe it wasn't the sex. I couldn't give it to him and I even said he should find a fcuk buddy. But he still lied to me. If he had been honest, who knows what would have happened. And I'm still not judging. My situation is different to many on here and I've never walked in their shoes so I can only speak to my own experience. " I'm so sorry you went through that. I feel the same way about my ex. We started off in an open relationship. It was what we both wanted and I was very open with him and always tried my best to ne respectful in my experiences outside of our relationship. After a few months he didn't like it and we decided to close the relationship only for a year later for me to find out he has been cheating with a girl he met on Tinder for 3 months. It almost hurt more that he had the option to do it in a way that wouldn't hurt me but chose to lie and deceive both me and the other person instead. | |||
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"I think, with clear open and honest communication it can absolutely be a hobby provided there still is love making at home. That love making doesn't necessarily mean the act of sex if one party is unable, but intimacy and affection, the looking into each others eyes and right into their soul and heart. The security of each other, of your love and of your relationship. So a hobby, yes. An addiction which it so often becomes is a completely different story tho. I personally think too many people use swinging as a plaster for internal turmoil, and that counselling would benefit both parties, even if they don't feel they need it, it can at least offer them the tools for if they do encounter issues." 
I think you're completely right, and there are sadly some people who both fall into the addiction and for whom swinging is a sticking plaster. I would go out on a limb and say that the couples I have ever spoken to on here are not in that group, as it appears, at least, that there is no coercion or reluctance on either part. I could of course be wrong, but I do hope not.
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"I think everyone's different and has different attitudes to sex and love. In my opinion the best way to move forward is to accept that some are able to separate love and sex and some aren't and to encourage people to discuss their attitudes openly. I don't think trying to replace one way of thinking with another is the way forward. Completely, I don't think that my thinking, such as it is, is a cure all. There will always be other ways of thinking and that's beautiful. Your point about encouraging people to talk about their attitude and views is really the idea. I think if more people discussed such things before committing to each other, and discovered whether the other person had the same views, they could be happier. But I am aware not everyone can or is comfortable doing so. It's difficult I agree. The older I get the more I think we should be much more business like in our approach to relationships. " I completely agree and I do think more people are beginning to be so, especially those who get together further down the line. I know I certainly am, not to the neglect of love or affection obviously. | |||
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"Hubby always teases that sex is my hobby! I can totally separate love from sex but saying that I need some kind of connection so I like to know the person. I see them as friends who we have sex with. For me it is about different experiences and some of those don't include hubby. I get different things from this than he does. It's about finding the balance of what we are both comfortable with but the main thing is that we are on the journey together. K x" That is the important thing, and it seems as if I could have taken my analogy from your relationship perhaps!
I completely agree with the friends first part as well. That's how I see it. Although obviously as a single woman it is different again. | |||
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"And precisely this again. You do hit those nails. I would say however, that there are some people for whom the sneaking and the control over their partner's emotions, in a negative way, is part of their joy. I hope that it's only the few though" Of course. There are no absolutes with human emotions / behaviour. There will always be exceptions to the rule. However, being a more optimistic kinda guy I like to believe that the heartless narcissistic sociopaths that either don't care about the feelings of those they cheat on, or worse, actively take pleasure from it... are the very, very rare exception. I'm so sorry to hear you had to go through so much deceit, and the worst part being continually being given the chance to be honest only to be continually lied to about it. But, forgive me the assumption, he did it because of the sheer terror of you finding out and getting hurt, not because we was malicious or evil. I'm not condoning or defending him, or any cheater, it's cowardly and wrong no two ways about it. But I've also read / watched a lot of Esther Perel (Mating in Captivity) on her talks about infidelity, and have come to understand why we do it so much and so often. It's because of what we're taught / how we're raised to think and behave around sex, love and relationships. Sure, there is no magic cure-all. But I think as a society we could be doing thing so much better, with a lot less pain and heartache. | |||
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"I'm not entirely sure how well I would cope with 'sharing' more out of an insecurity point of view. I would find it hard not to think my partner would prefer to replace me permanently with the play partner etc. It is something I am curious about though, maybe one day "This is most definitely how I know I would feel, but I believe that the way to combat that is with conversation, reassurance and rules in place for both parties. I could be wrong, but I have no way of knowing. | |||
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" I'm so sorry you went through that. I feel the same way about my ex. We started off in an open relationship. It was what we both wanted and I was very open with him and always tried my best to ne respectful in my experiences outside of our relationship. After a few months he didn't like it and we decided to close the relationship only for a year later for me to find out he has been cheating with a girl he met on Tinder for 3 months. It almost hurt more that he had the option to do it in a way that wouldn't hurt me but chose to lie and deceive both me and the other person instead. " This is the exact feeling I had. There was the option to not deceive and hurt me but he chose not to take it. | |||
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"Recreational sex as a concept, could help to relieve some of the stresses that single and attached people experience. To get to that point, I'm guessing that quite a few other things would need to shift in the mindsets of people in our society. The monopoly position of 1 partner is very entrenched, as the provider of ever more aspects of life satisfaction to people. We've regressed a little, away from where people used to experience more aspects of life with friends and others, not just a romantic partner. Wed need to more fully accept sex as an essential adult need. There's a bit too much of the hangovers from puritanical pasts still around. How we'd get to such a position, when there are powerful movements to retain the status quo, I'm unsure. Somebody posted about a Mary Whitehouse here a couple of weeks ago. She was fiercely against sexing up of lifestyles. She's dead now but some of her mindset lives on in others today " Do you believe that our society will ever be more accepting and open of these ideas? | |||
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"And precisely this again. You do hit those nails. I would say however, that there are some people for whom the sneaking and the control over their partner's emotions, in a negative way, is part of their joy. I hope that it's only the few though Of course. There are no absolutes with human emotions / behaviour. There will always be exceptions to the rule. However, being a more optimistic kinda guy I like to believe that the heartless narcissistic sociopaths that either don't care about the feelings of those they cheat on, or worse, actively take pleasure from it... are the very, very rare exception. I'm so sorry to hear you had to go through so much deceit, and the worst part being continually being given the chance to be honest only to be continually lied to about it. But, forgive me the assumption, he did it because of the sheer terror of you finding out and getting hurt, not because we was malicious or evil. I'm not condoning or defending him, or any cheater, it's cowardly and wrong no two ways about it. But I've also read / watched a lot of Esther Perel (Mating in Captivity) on her talks about infidelity, and have come to understand why we do it so much and so often. It's because of what we're taught / how we're raised to think and behave around sex, love and relationships. Sure, there is no magic cure-all. But I think as a society we could be doing thing so much better, with a lot less pain and heartache." There is no doubt in my mind that what you say about him is right. He was a good man essentially who did something stupid because he was scared and didn't believe what I said to him. In a way I hold some of the responsibility even as I was the one to suggest it. But I take no responsibility for how he chose to act, I've had a lot of time to process that and realise it was never my fault and I should not feel guilty. | |||
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" I'm so sorry you went through that. I feel the same way about my ex. We started off in an open relationship. It was what we both wanted and I was very open with him and always tried my best to ne respectful in my experiences outside of our relationship. After a few months he didn't like it and we decided to close the relationship only for a year later for me to find out he has been cheating with a girl he met on Tinder for 3 months. It almost hurt more that he had the option to do it in a way that wouldn't hurt me but chose to lie and deceive both me and the other person instead. This is the exact feeling I had. There was the option to not deceive and hurt me but he chose not to take it. " Exactly, but that's the shit that haunts you and changes you. I envy anyone who's life and outlook on life isn't changed by it. Thing is once you've seen it, felt it, been busted the fuck up by it, well, you kinda start seeing it everywhere. A bit like when you're pregnant and you see pregnant people everywhere! Once you've been decieved (especially if more than once) it can absolutely cause you to lose faith in humanity but also faith in yourself. | |||
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"I feel like the world would be better off if more people were happy to be open when talking about sex rather than thinking of it as a taboo topic of conversation "I do agree wholeheartedly. And I feel blessed to have been raised in a way in which I've always felt able to be open and honest about sex, unlike many of my peers. I also feel blessed and honoured that I've been welcomed into this community where we can do so to such an extent. | |||
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I do think full honesty is the best way to approach these things, I know your OP was about sex but even when it came to me dating and loving someone else I had a lot of discussions with my fiance about it all. Even the minutiae that were daft and the less so that were difficult.
This is such a waffle of a post! It's loosely connected to what I was discussing this afternoon with a partner and so I've stream of consciousnessed hard. | |||
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"I feel like the world would be better off if more people were happy to be open when talking about sex rather than thinking of it as a taboo topic of conversation
I do agree wholeheartedly. And I feel blessed to have been raised in a way in which I've always felt able to be open and honest about sex, unlike many of my peers.
I also feel blessed and honoured that I've been welcomed into this community where we can do so to such an extent.
"I fully agree , like I feel if theres always an open dialogue about sex , not as this dirty taboo topic , but more as a topic of enjoyment , it would be easier to discuss the things you enjoy , without feeling you're being judged or made to feel ashamed for it ....and as for couples an open dialogue about things youd like to try ...or things you dont like just be honest and open , you may find theres less arguments or boring nights , and have better sex together, through a steady level of open dialogue about sex ...after all sex is to be enjoyed by all , and should not be deemed as taboo or dirty to talk about | |||
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" I'm so sorry you went through that. I feel the same way about my ex. We started off in an open relationship. It was what we both wanted and I was very open with him and always tried my best to ne respectful in my experiences outside of our relationship. After a few months he didn't like it and we decided to close the relationship only for a year later for me to find out he has been cheating with a girl he met on Tinder for 3 months. It almost hurt more that he had the option to do it in a way that wouldn't hurt me but chose to lie and deceive both me and the other person instead. This is the exact feeling I had. There was the option to not deceive and hurt me but he chose not to take it. Exactly, but that's the shit that haunts you and changes you. I envy anyone who's life and outlook on life isn't changed by it. Thing is once you've seen it, felt it, been busted the fuck up by it, well, you kinda start seeing it everywhere. A bit like when you're pregnant and you see pregnant people everywhere! Once you've been decieved (especially if more than once) it can absolutely cause you to lose faith in humanity but also faith in yourself. " It can and that's the horrible result. One person's deceit and cruelty can shape another's life. I have no words Princess, you know I understand. | |||
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"There is no doubt in my mind that what you say about him is right. He was a good man essentially who did something stupid because he was scared and didn't believe what I said to him. In a way I hold some of the responsibility even as I was the one to suggest it. But I take no responsibility for how he chose to act, I've had a lot of time to process that and realise it was never my fault and I should not feel guilty." Absolutely. We cannot conrol our thoughts or our feelings, but we CAN, always, control our actions. Thinking and feeling something is one thing, making a choice to ACT on it is another thing entirely. We all need to be better at holding space for each other to share our thoughts, our feelings, our desires and our fears. After all, nothing builds intimacy like shared vulnurablilities. Unfortunately, with the way we are taught and raised, that's far too much hard work for a lot of us, who will opt for the easier, unethical option instead. In those instances, each person needs to own it and talk accountability for their actions, and never feel guilty for someone else's choices. | |||
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"I think that quite often in long term relationships sex wanes as a result of the energy required to attend to other matters in life such as careers and children and can often signify that other things are lacking in the relationship Recreational sex with others is maybe a way for one partner to seek out some kind of intimacy that they are lacking in their own relationship in a way that isn't impacted by lifes daily hassles " I think this is a big reason that many people stray, and is really the issue I am attempting in my clumsy fashion to address. | |||
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"I think that quite often in long term relationships sex wanes as a result of the energy required to attend to other matters in life such as careers and children and can often signify that other things are lacking in the relationship Recreational sex with others is maybe a way for one partner to seek out some kind of intimacy that they are lacking in their own relationship in a way that isn't impacted by lifes daily hassles I think this is a big reason that many people stray, and is really the issue I am attempting in my clumsy fashion to address. " If it's the missing intimacy associated with sex that someone is seeking, then I can't see that the other partner would ever be able to consider sex outside that relationship as a hobby | |||
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"I think that the minefield of love, dating and sex would be far better if people were honest, painfully honest about what does and doesn't work for them, whether that's dating or fucking others. I don't think there's anything wrong with monogamy and I have a fair few friends who I genuinely believe are (both men and women). I do believe that as a society we are still at a point where we don't readily accept consensual non-monogamy/polyamory because people have had bad experiences/lack knowledge in those areas. Personally speaking, I like this idea of seeing sex as a hobby (of sorts). Much like if any hobby consumed the life of my partner, I'd be a bit irked but I'm at the point where I genuinely don't mind/don't get jealous if my partners were to choose to meet others - their feelings for me aren't diminished because they choose to have sex with others. I do have moments when I feel insecure because let's be honest, I'm not exactly the best looking person about but even the smallest niggles I can openly discuss with them both before it becomes a *thing*. I feel genuine compersion for them and rather than a hobby I frame it as an experience for them. It's kind of like me going to see a play - I love every minute of it because it's enthralling and fun but it doesn't change my feelings for them. I also like seeing them getting ready, the excitement they have and the little swagger
I do think full honesty is the best way to approach these things, I know your OP was about sex but even when it came to me dating and loving someone else I had a lot of discussions with my fiance about it all. Even the minutiae that were daft and the less so that were difficult.
This is such a waffle of a post! It's loosely connected to what I was discussing this afternoon with a partner and so I've stream of consciousnessed hard."I'm so glad to see you here Meli, my fellow wordy woman
I love your analogies, and the insight into how your relationships are as well. The honesty and openness are exactly what I'm getting at, as I've said I believe, and I think it's amazing that you are happy to share so openly as well with us.
May I ask did you go into the relationship with your fiance prior to the discussion of the poly life or was it something you talked about before getting together?
And I know it doesn't help, as insecurity is well rooted. But you are truly beautiful to look at, also cute as a button, and your shining soul only makes you more so. | |||
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"I grew up in a non monogamous household. It was never sex that caused damage, always lies. It has made me value honesty above anything else. Sex as a hobby is a good explanation but personally I would never add intimacy into that situation. " I think the differing meanings of intimacy are possibly in play here. Physical intimacy is one thing, and by that I refer to sex. Emotional intimacy is another entirely and I believe that is where danger can lie. Thank you for sharing your history a little, it means a lot, I'm hoping I am right that you mean a consentually non monogamous household otherwise my next question, as always feel free to tell me not to be nosey, I'd irrelevant. Do you think that there was an element of not wanting to cause problems with some of the lies that did cause them, or do you think that it was a "being caught out" kind of situation? I appreciate that looking back you would have a different view to at the time. | |||
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"I’ve long since had a mindset that sex can just be an activity like any other that two people do for fun. Social norms are the issue, IMO. We’re force fed the concept that sex is inextricably tied to love, and that marriage means monogamy, to depth that it’s a known fundamental of life in British culture. We breath, we eat, we shit, we pay taxes, love is tied up with sex, marriage means monogamy. When the truth is - as evidenced by sexless couples who desperately want to stay together - love is a separate beast. I think people would have healthier, longer lasting relationships if the time honoured concepts of monogamy were dropped. They served a social purpose many years ago, but it’s no longer required for functional society. If it’s good enough for dolphins, it’s good enough for me "And your summing up is basically perfect. I'm glad to know that you agree with my general premise. So much support for it is making me think I might not actually be nuts. | |||
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"I feel like the world would be better off if more people were happy to be open when talking about sex rather than thinking of it as a taboo topic of conversation
I do agree wholeheartedly. And I feel blessed to have been raised in a way in which I've always felt able to be open and honest about sex, unlike many of my peers.
I also feel blessed and honoured that I've been welcomed into this community where we can do so to such an extent.
I fully agree , like I feel if theres always an open dialogue about sex , not as this dirty taboo topic , but more as a topic of enjoyment , it would be easier to discuss the things you enjoy , without feeling you're being judged or made to feel ashamed for it ....and as for couples an open dialogue about things youd like to try ...or things you dont like just be honest and open , you may find theres less arguments or boring nights , and have better sex together, through a steady level of open dialogue about sex ...after all sex is to be enjoyed by all , and should not be deemed as taboo or dirty to talk about "It's refreshing to read such things from someone so young.... | |||
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"I feel like the world would be better off if more people were happy to be open when talking about sex rather than thinking of it as a taboo topic of conversation
I do agree wholeheartedly. And I feel blessed to have been raised in a way in which I've always felt able to be open and honest about sex, unlike many of my peers.
I also feel blessed and honoured that I've been welcomed into this community where we can do so to such an extent.
I fully agree , like I feel if theres always an open dialogue about sex , not as this dirty taboo topic , but more as a topic of enjoyment , it would be easier to discuss the things you enjoy , without feeling you're being judged or made to feel ashamed for it ....and as for couples an open dialogue about things youd like to try ...or things you dont like just be honest and open , you may find theres less arguments or boring nights , and have better sex together, through a steady level of open dialogue about sex ...after all sex is to be enjoyed by all , and should not be deemed as taboo or dirty to talk about
It's refreshing to read such things from someone so young.... "Its nice to not be over looked due to age , as I'm used to , nice to feel appreciated , I am full of surprises | |||
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"There is no doubt in my mind that what you say about him is right. He was a good man essentially who did something stupid because he was scared and didn't believe what I said to him. In a way I hold some of the responsibility even as I was the one to suggest it. But I take no responsibility for how he chose to act, I've had a lot of time to process that and realise it was never my fault and I should not feel guilty. Absolutely. We cannot conrol our thoughts or our feelings, but we CAN, always, control our actions. Thinking and feeling something is one thing, making a choice to ACT on it is another thing entirely. We all need to be better at holding space for each other to share our thoughts, our feelings, our desires and our fears. After all, nothing builds intimacy like shared vulnurablilities. Unfortunately, with the way we are taught and raised, that's far too much hard work for a lot of us, who will opt for the easier, unethical option instead. In those instances, each person needs to own it and talk accountability for their actions, and never feel guilty for someone else's choices." I've got an amazing capacity for guilt. It's a flaw that I've been working on, as it's only harmful to myself. But that's another story for another thread lol. If we were better at holding space for each other in general I believe the world would be better. | |||
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"The only way it works is if you are totally open, honest and talk to each other; remembering the most important thing, you both listen to each other. You might not always agree but an honest conversation could lead to an acceptable understanding for all. Don’t let those little niggles or assumptions get to you or indeed your desires pass you by, talk them through. " Exactly this! Thank you Spurs. Talking honestly is the key. And questions. And trying to let go of fear. Why can't I explain stuff without rambling? Answers on a postcard please. | |||
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"That's a well thought out and articulate point. One I generally agree with. Communication is key." Thank you. I do my best with my random rambles. This one seems to have worked a little. | |||
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"I think that quite often in long term relationships sex wanes as a result of the energy required to attend to other matters in life such as careers and children and can often signify that other things are lacking in the relationship Recreational sex with others is maybe a way for one partner to seek out some kind of intimacy that they are lacking in their own relationship in a way that isn't impacted by lifes daily hassles I think this is a big reason that many people stray, and is really the issue I am attempting in my clumsy fashion to address. If it's the missing intimacy associated with sex that someone is seeking, then I can't see that the other partner would ever be able to consider sex outside that relationship as a hobby " As I mentioned referring to another post, I think intimacy can mean either physical or emotional. And if it is physical intimacy that is being sought I believe that my hypothesis is potential. Emotional intimacy is the part where lines become blurry and danger can happen. | |||
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" It's refreshing to read such things from someone so young.... Its nice to not be over looked due to age , as I'm used to , nice to feel appreciated , I am full of surprises "You are indeed as I've already told you. Good man. | |||
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"The only way it works is if you are totally open, honest and talk to each other; remembering the most important thing, you both listen to each other. You might not always agree but an honest conversation could lead to an acceptable understanding for all. Don’t let those little niggles or assumptions get to you or indeed your desires pass you by, talk them through. " I would totally agree good point well made but if your othhalf shuts down any attempt at discussion (and not just about sex but other things too)where do you go from there?? | |||
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"If we were better at holding space for each other in general I believe the world would be better."
"This is a fascinating thread, thanks OP! So many different aspects to consider. As several people have said, at the heart of it lies communication. For me, it's the crux of every relationship, sexual or otherwise, and we as a species are generally a bit crap at it. Couple that with pervading societal belief that monogamy is the holy grail, and you have a recipe for disappointment, betrayal and guilt. I do believe that if more people were open to the idea of sex outwith a relationship, with full knowledge of their partner, the world would be a happier place for it. I don't think it's going to happen any time soon, though. For one thing, you have to be very secure as a couple to be able to handle it - and for some people, it's never going to be what they want. For another, you have to constantly scrutinise your own feelings and your partners' feelings - something which was fine before may now not be fine. People change. A happy swinging relationship requires a lot of maintenance. Balance that against your sex life going out the window amidst children, bills, day to day stresses and I can see why cheating remains the preferred option - it's easier! If we as a society remain stuck in the "monogamy is what you should aspire to" mindset, then that's not going to change. Mr TMN and I have been together a long time, and we've had our ups and downs, as most couples do, sexually and otherwise. I can honestly say that swinging has brought us a new found sexual intimacy, one which I wouldn't have thought possible. It's brought us a new level of honesty in our relationship. It's made us desire each other more than ever before. It's hard work at times, but oh so worth it. Mrs TMN x"
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"This is a fascinating thread, thanks OP! So many different aspects to consider. As several people have said, at the heart of it lies communication. For me, it's the crux of every relationship, sexual or otherwise, and we as a species are generally a bit crap at it. Couple that with pervading societal belief that monogamy is the holy grail, and you have a recipe for disappointment, betrayal and guilt. I do believe that if more people were open to the idea of sex outwith a relationship, with full knowledge of their partner, the world would be a happier place for it. I don't think it's going to happen any time soon, though. For one thing, you have to be very secure as a couple to be able to handle it - and for some people, it's never going to be what they want. For another, you have to constantly scrutinise your own feelings and your partners' feelings - something which was fine before may now not be fine. People change. A happy swinging relationship requires a lot of maintenance. Balance that against your sex life going out the window amidst children, bills, day to day stresses and I can see why cheating remains the preferred option - it's easier! If we as a society remain stuck in the "monogamy is what you should aspire to" mindset, then that's not going to change. Mr TMN and I have been together a long time, and we've had our ups and downs, as most couples do, sexually and otherwise. I can honestly say that swinging has brought us a new found sexual intimacy, one which I wouldn't have thought possible. It's brought us a new level of honesty in our relationship. It's made us desire each other more than ever before. It's hard work at times, but oh so worth it. Mrs TMN x" Thank you Mrs TMN, and thank you for pointing out the hard parts as well. Cheating can be the easy option, I have no doubt, otherwise people wouldn't do it. But it does come with it's own hardships and difficulties for the cheater as well, especially if they're a genuinely good person struggling in a situation that yes, they had a massive hand in but felt there was no other option. If the pressure of society can change, I think that there would be a lot more happy people. | |||
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"The only way it works is if you are totally open, honest and talk to each other; remembering the most important thing, you both listen to each other. You might not always agree but an honest conversation could lead to an acceptable understanding for all. Don’t let those little niggles or assumptions get to you or indeed your desires pass you by, talk them through. I would totally agree good point well made but if your othhalf shuts down any attempt at discussion (and not just about sex but other things too)where do you go from there??" All you can do in that situation is follow your heart and head and see where they lead you. If it is your situation you are referring to I feel for you, as it cannot be easy. Being honest with yourself is the first step, and being honest with anyone else you bring into your situation is, in my view, completely the most important thing, if you cannot be honest with your partner for whatever reason. No judgement here | |||
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"I think that quite often in long term relationships sex wanes as a result of the energy required to attend to other matters in life such as careers and children and can often signify that other things are lacking in the relationship Recreational sex with others is maybe a way for one partner to seek out some kind of intimacy that they are lacking in their own relationship in a way that isn't impacted by lifes daily hassles I think this is a big reason that many people stray, and is really the issue I am attempting in my clumsy fashion to address. If it's the missing intimacy associated with sex that someone is seeking, then I can't see that the other partner would ever be able to consider sex outside that relationship as a hobby As I mentioned referring to another post, I think intimacy can mean either physical or emotional. And if it is physical intimacy that is being sought I believe that my hypothesis is potential. Emotional intimacy is the part where lines become blurry and danger can happen. " I'd refer to it as no more than a physical release if there isn't emotion involved | |||
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"I think if i hadn’t been lucky enough to have a long standing relationship where the sex was awesome, constant and satisfying (As well as the rest of the relationship being great to a point) then i’d probably agree with the sentiments set out in the OP. However, i have been lucky to have it all and it has spoiled me. I do not want, nor shall i ever share a long term partner. It’s just not for me. " You are most definitely a lucky lady, and I'm so pleased for you. I should probably say, I have no idea if I will ever have another long term partner, nor do I know if I would be able or willing to share. But I'm open to both ideas at the moment. And hopeful for the first at least. I'm not saying I think you should be open to it, obviously. | |||
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"Going to come back to this when time is on my side, very interesting idea. " Thank you | |||
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"This is a fascinating thread, thanks OP! So many different aspects to consider. As several people have said, at the heart of it lies communication. For me, it's the crux of every relationship, sexual or otherwise, and we as a species are generally a bit crap at it. Couple that with pervading societal belief that monogamy is the holy grail, and you have a recipe for disappointment, betrayal and guilt. I do believe that if more people were open to the idea of sex outwith a relationship, with full knowledge of their partner, the world would be a happier place for it. I don't think it's going to happen any time soon, though. For one thing, you have to be very secure as a couple to be able to handle it - and for some people, it's never going to be what they want. For another, you have to constantly scrutinise your own feelings and your partners' feelings - something which was fine before may now not be fine. People change. A happy swinging relationship requires a lot of maintenance. Balance that against your sex life going out the window amidst children, bills, day to day stresses and I can see why cheating remains the preferred option - it's easier! If we as a society remain stuck in the "monogamy is what you should aspire to" mindset, then that's not going to change. Mr TMN and I have been together a long time, and we've had our ups and downs, as most couples do, sexually and otherwise. I can honestly say that swinging has brought us a new found sexual intimacy, one which I wouldn't have thought possible. It's brought us a new level of honesty in our relationship. It's made us desire each other more than ever before. It's hard work at times, but oh so worth it. Mrs TMN x Thank you Mrs TMN, and thank you for pointing out the hard parts as well. Cheating can be the easy option, I have no doubt, otherwise people wouldn't do it. But it does come with it's own hardships and difficulties for the cheater as well, especially if they're a genuinely good person struggling in a situation that yes, they had a massive hand in but felt there was no other option. If the pressure of society can change, I think that there would be a lot more happy people. " "Felt there was no other option" - communication at the heart of the issue here again... There is always another option. We are in charge of our own actions. I'm coming from a position of knowledge here, I've knowingly been the other woman in the past. At the time I justified it to myself, but was under no illusions that I was accountable for my actions. Apologies for taking the thread off course... To bring it back round, if society was more open to sex with others whilst being in a relationship, I think this would help. Our monogamy blinkers make it hard for us to consider other options, we're so conditioned to thinking that sharing intimacy with others is a betrayal. | |||
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"I have been in the position you describe which was how I originally came to be on here. I guess in some situations it may work but for me no. It wasn't actually sex I wanted but to be desired by the person I loved. We did have sex (when she initiated it) but in between there was no intimacy. We would hold hands, cuddle, be affectionate - but you can be affectionate with your dog. Any attempt at intimacy was stopped, gently if awake, a hand placed in the wrong place for a sleepy cuddle would illicit a tut, sigh and a physical roll away - guaranteeing an instant change from sleepy snuggles to wide awake rejection. I thought finding sex elsewhere was the answer but truth is I wanted someone who felt about me the way I felt about them. Now, I'm in a totally different relationship, where physical intimacy, desire and sex is routine and effortless yet it is in this relationship that sex with others for fun is able to work - precisely because it is only sex. If what is missing at home is more than just sex but includes other things like intimacy or respect or appreciation etc, you won't fix it by having recreational sex with others. I believe in many if not all cases that sex had dwindled it is the result of something else being missing and sex outside will inevitably lead to finding that missing something with someone else. This could save a relationship if you are both able to acknowledge the issue and sort it but if one or both refuse to do so it is grunted to screw the relationship. However, sex as a hobby does sound fun
Mr"Hi Mr. First, I think it's awful that you went through that. No one should feel less than desired by their partner (and I've been there too but that's another tale). But I'm heartened that you have such a beautiful and fulfilling relationship now. I agree with what you said. There often is something else missing and that will never be fixed by my hypothesis. It's more for those for whom sex is all that is missing, where the love and affection are still very much present, or indeed for those where there is little feeling on either side and yet splitting up is not an option for whatever reason. If that makes any sense. | |||
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"I think that quite often in long term relationships sex wanes as a result of the energy required to attend to other matters in life such as careers and children and can often signify that other things are lacking in the relationship Recreational sex with others is maybe a way for one partner to seek out some kind of intimacy that they are lacking in their own relationship in a way that isn't impacted by lifes daily hassles I think this is a big reason that many people stray, and is really the issue I am attempting in my clumsy fashion to address. If it's the missing intimacy associated with sex that someone is seeking, then I can't see that the other partner would ever be able to consider sex outside that relationship as a hobby As I mentioned referring to another post, I think intimacy can mean either physical or emotional. And if it is physical intimacy that is being sought I believe that my hypothesis is potential. Emotional intimacy is the part where lines become blurry and danger can happen. I'd refer to it as no more than a physical release if there isn't emotion involved " That's more than fair. I was careful not to use the word intimacy in the OP for the reason that it means different things to different people. | |||
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" Thank you Mrs TMN, and thank you for pointing out the hard parts as well. Cheating can be the easy option, I have no doubt, otherwise people wouldn't do it. But it does come with it's own hardships and difficulties for the cheater as well, especially if they're a genuinely good person struggling in a situation that yes, they had a massive hand in but felt there was no other option. If the pressure of society can change, I think that there would be a lot more happy people. "Felt there was no other option" - communication at the heart of the issue here again... There is always another option. We are in charge of our own actions. I'm coming from a position of knowledge here, I've knowingly been the other woman in the past. At the time I justified it to myself, but was under no illusions that I was accountable for my actions. Apologies for taking the thread off course... To bring it back round, if society was more open to sex with others whilst being in a relationship, I think this would help. Our monogamy blinkers make it hard for us to consider other options, we're so conditioned to thinking that sharing intimacy with others is a betrayal. " Just to steer the alternative course a moment... I do agree that there should always be another option, and if communication is possible then there should be. But we've heard slightly up there ^ from someone whose partner (if my assumption is correct) will not enter into discourse, and for want of any further information there could be reasons that leaving the home is not an option. I'm not saying it is right or wrong, just that sometimes I believe it is what it is and there does appear to be, or in fact is, no other option. That's not to say the situation could change. And then it's up to the individual to make decisions based on the new information. | |||
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"My first husband just didn't talk or have sex and it lead to me resenting him and feeling about as attractive as a wooden spoon. With the Mr we talk about sex and intimacy alot. We are very active and 12 years I fancy the pants off him and I think alot of it is to do with the fact that we put time and effort into knowing each other if that all makes sense." Made perfect sense | |||
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"My first husband just didn't talk or have sex and it lead to me resenting him and feeling about as attractive as a wooden spoon. With the Mr we talk about sex and intimacy alot. We are very active and 12 years I fancy the pants off him and I think alot of it is to do with the fact that we put time and effort into knowing each other if that all makes sense. Made perfect sense "Thank you lol I'm talking through a bright red haze!!! | |||
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"My first husband just didn't talk or have sex and it lead to me resenting him and feeling about as attractive as a wooden spoon. With the Mr we talk about sex and intimacy alot. We are very active and 12 years I fancy the pants off him and I think alot of it is to do with the fact that we put time and effort into knowing each other if that all makes sense. Made perfect sense
Thank you lol I'm talking through a bright red haze!!! "Awwww bless you Haha, but I agree fully , if you never talk about sex then how do you ever truly know what each other desire or how you feel about each other | |||
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"Think often we first need to be honest with ourselves about what exactly it is we want from our sex lives. And to loose the feeling of guilt if we don't fit the societal norms. I personally feel that it's the fact that sex is still often a taboo subject, doesn't help couples regardless, if they are in an asexual relationship, vanilla to hotwife etc. I believe that society as a whole needs to be open about sex, instead of looking to external sources to tell us what the norms are. Wether it'll be the traditionalist where you marry and that's it to what you see in pornography. There's so much variety out there, but it's often not spokem about. We can see how 50 shades made BDSM more acceptable and mainstream. Maybe it's time we all became more open in talking about sex. I believe in turn this will make it easier for couples to talk about sex and people having the kind of sex life they desire. "Oh, all of this! X | |||
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"Think often we first need to be honest with ourselves about what exactly it is we want from our sex lives. And to loose the feeling of guilt if we don't fit the societal norms. I personally feel that it's the fact that sex is still often a taboo subject, doesn't help couples regardless, if they are in an asexual relationship, vanilla to hotwife etc. I believe that society as a whole needs to be open about sex, instead of looking to external sources to tell us what the norms are. Wether it'll be the traditionalist where you marry and that's it to what you see in pornography. There's so much variety out there, but it's often not spokem about. We can see how 50 shades made BDSM more acceptable and mainstream. Maybe it's time we all became more open in talking about sex. I believe in turn this will make it easier for couples to talk about sex and people having the kind of sex life they desire. "I'm going to get you to do my talking for me. Honesty is the heart of it as always. Honesty to ourselves foremost. And communication. I will admit, I never thought that BDSM would become more mainstream, and always thought I was a little weird for the interest I held in it, until people started talking about it due to 50 Shades. Whatever you feel about the book, at least it started conversations. Maybe one day the same sort of thing will happen with sex as a whole. I think we are getting that way in some ways, but I'm not sure it'll be widespread enough in my lifetime sadly, at least among the rest of society. As I've said, I'm blessed that this community, where conversation such as this can be had, has welcomed me and I can start threads like this and learn from others. | |||
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"As a wee aside, I do wonder how people outside the relationship that are single and having sex with someone in a relationship would feel if it was made clear to them that sex with them was just a hobby " I think that would depend on their level of emotional attachment. And comes back again to communication. Hobby is perhaps not the term to use, but it made an easy summation of my point for the title. | |||
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"As a wee aside, I do wonder how people outside the relationship that are single and having sex with someone in a relationship would feel if it was made clear to them that sex with them was just a hobby " I'd feel like a sex toy for him. Call me when you want sex is not something I'd ever do. Im happy to be a loving emotional girlfriend to a hothusband because I need love in my relationships, but I'd never feel the need to destroy his core family from jealousy of it and thats what makes the relationship special we trust that no boundaries will be crossed on anybody's side. | |||
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"My first husband just didn't talk or have sex and it lead to me resenting him and feeling about as attractive as a wooden spoon. With the Mr we talk about sex and intimacy alot. We are very active and 12 years I fancy the pants off him and I think alot of it is to do with the fact that we put time and effort into knowing each other if that all makes sense." Add that to being told you're fat and ugly every day and that's a little of the 7 years of relationship I came out of before joining fab. It's hell, and destructive. And the worst part is that the other person either doesn't know they're doing it, doesn't care, or does it vindictively. I do feel your pain from your first marriage. If he would have spoken and had explained that he just had no sex drive (for example, I obviously don't know the story and no judgement), do you think it would have helped you? I mean before your resentment and hurt started obviously. I'm so glad you've found the Mr. And clearly the communication and knowledge you have of each other is working so well for you. That's truly a wonderful thing. Also, well done for coming back from the wooden spoon feelings. Beautiful lady from what I can see anyway, and a lovely one as well | |||
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"What a great thread! This is how we view swinging, its our hobby x " Thank you! And I'm glad it works for you. It's wonderful when it does! | |||
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"My first husband just didn't talk or have sex and it lead to me resenting him and feeling about as attractive as a wooden spoon. With the Mr we talk about sex and intimacy alot. We are very active and 12 years I fancy the pants off him and I think alot of it is to do with the fact that we put time and effort into knowing each other if that all makes sense. Add that to being told you're fat and ugly every day and that's a little of the 7 years of relationship I came out of before joining fab. It's hell, and destructive. And the worst part is that the other person either doesn't know they're doing it, doesn't care, or does it vindictively. I do feel your pain from your first marriage. If he would have spoken and had explained that he just had no sex drive (for example, I obviously don't know the story and no judgement), do you think it would have helped you? I mean before your resentment and hurt started obviously. I'm so glad you've found the Mr. And clearly the communication and knowledge you have of each other is working so well for you. That's truly a wonderful thing. Also, well done for coming back from the wooden spoon feelings. Beautiful lady from what I can see anyway, and a lovely one as well "I cant believe anyone would say that about you, you are stunning and beautiful and a lovely woman  | |||
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"As a wee aside, I do wonder how people outside the relationship that are single and having sex with someone in a relationship would feel if it was made clear to them that sex with them was just a hobby I'd feel like a sex toy for him. Call me when you want sex is not something I'd ever do. Im happy to be a loving emotional girlfriend to a hothusband because I need love in my relationships, but I'd never feel the need to destroy his core family from jealousy of it and thats what makes the relationship special we trust that no boundaries will be crossed on anybody's side. " This is where hobby, as I have mentioned, was probably the wrong word. I'm not necessarily meaning the call when you want sex. But if that's how some people want their encounters, absolutely. There are different degrees of sexual relationship in play in the situation I described. One size does not fit all. I did kind of think my ramble had rambled enough though. As a girlfriend to a hot husband your relationship is obviously at the other end of the spectrum to the "call for a fuck" type, which is what I would class as a fuck buddy. I think it's great that you and he, and presumably his wife are able to have the security of knowing there will be no boundary crossing, and I this is what I'm getting at with my analogy, the idea that if sex is something that becomes an issue for one partner, they could be free to pursue it with a friend (however close that friendship becomes) rather than "hassling" the unwilling partner, leading to bad feeling. | |||
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"If I’ve understood your OP correctly... I think sex as a hobby may work for some, and not for others. I’m incredibly lucky that me and my partner want each other sexually just as much now (if not more) than when we met 5 years ago. No matter what shitty challenges life has thrown our way, thankfully that’s one of the things that has never dwindled between us. " I want this one day with someone | |||
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"As a wee aside, I do wonder how people outside the relationship that are single and having sex with someone in a relationship would feel if it was made clear to them that sex with them was just a hobby I'd feel like a sex toy for him. Call me when you want sex is not something I'd ever do. Im happy to be a loving emotional girlfriend to a hothusband because I need love in my relationships, but I'd never feel the need to destroy his core family from jealousy of it and thats what makes the relationship special we trust that no boundaries will be crossed on anybody's side. This is where hobby, as I have mentioned, was probably the wrong word. I'm not necessarily meaning the call when you want sex. But if that's how some people want their encounters, absolutely. There are different degrees of sexual relationship in play in the situation I described. One size does not fit all. I did kind of think my ramble had rambled enough though. As a girlfriend to a hot husband your relationship is obviously at the other end of the spectrum to the "call for a fuck" type, which is what I would class as a fuck buddy. I think it's great that you and he, and presumably his wife are able to have the security of knowing there will be no boundary crossing, and I this is what I'm getting at with my analogy, the idea that if sex is something that becomes an issue for one partner, they could be free to pursue it with a friend (however close that friendship becomes) rather than "hassling" the unwilling partner, leading to bad feeling. " I do understand where you are coming from and in an ideal world it would be great to have an all knowing trio or quad (I am good friends with mines wife and she has a bf) But jealous feelings are rife and breed rapidly so I feel for the majority this is unattainable, which is a shame  | |||
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"If I’ve understood your OP correctly... I think sex as a hobby may work for some, and not for others. I’m incredibly lucky that me and my partner want each other sexually just as much now (if not more) than when we met 5 years ago. No matter what shitty challenges life has thrown our way, thankfully that’s one of the things that has never dwindled between us. I want this one day with someone "Aw I hope you find it... I think I may not have fully understood or read the OP though - it’s been a long day!  | |||
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"If I’ve understood your OP correctly... I think sex as a hobby may work for some, and not for others. I’m incredibly lucky that me and my partner want each other sexually just as much now (if not more) than when we met 5 years ago. No matter what shitty challenges life has thrown our way, thankfully that’s one of the things that has never dwindled between us. I want this one day with someone
Aw I hope you find it...
I think I may not have fully understood or read the OP though - it’s been a long day! "I hope so too | |||
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" I'm so glad to see you here Meli, my fellow wordy woman
I love your analogies, and the insight into how your relationships are as well. The honesty and openness are exactly what I'm getting at, as I've said I believe, and I think it's amazing that you are happy to share so openly as well with us.
May I ask did you go into the relationship with your fiance prior to the discussion of the poly life or was it something you talked about before getting together?
And I know it doesn't help, as insecurity is well rooted. But you are truly beautiful to look at, also cute as a button, and your shining soul only makes you more so. "
I've always been ethically non-monogamous in relationships/when dating people but I've never seriously dated more than one person at a time if that makes sense?
My partner and I went into this relationship after meeting in a dungeon - we both knew we weren't monogamous and we've met others for sex whilst seeing each other. I wasn't actually meant to fall in love with him but it happened and several years later here we are. The poly side is only something I've come to terms with recently but my fiance loves how happy my other partner makes me and actively encourages me to see him/talk to him. We've had our chats about jealously, worries about being replaced etc and addressed each thing as it arose. I wasn't really planning on falling in love with either of them in all honesty, I was hoping for friendship and thorough cockings but here we are.
In a way, I think that being in the swinging "lifestyle" helped us be so open with each other. We still have the intimacy and love as we did before, if anything I'd say it was stronger because of what we've been through. Having sex/meeting others isn't a stop gap or a temporary filler to problems within my relationships, it's a pleasant thing to do that doesn't detract from our feelings and the love we share.
I think communication can be really tough and truly listening to what another is saying and being open to it isn't always that feasible. One of my close friends is married and I know he wishes he could talk to his wife but it's not quite that simple - having both parties willing is tough. | |||
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"As someone who comes from a background where monogamy can be the only option and then finding myself emotionally attached to a polyamorous person, it's been a tremendously hard learning curve... I kinda like the term hobby because it takes the emotion out of it completely for me, but that doesn't really help me on my journey to find compersion I'd love to chat more to those ecperienced in poly relationships and continue to open my mind and experiences" It comes with time and practice and challenging our own fears. It takes time but the aim is to see our metamours as on the same team as us rathet than competition. You're united in your love for your shared partner and wanting them to be happy. It's good common ground to start on . | |||
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"As someone who comes from a background where monogamy can be the only option and then finding myself emotionally attached to a polyamorous person, it's been a tremendously hard learning curve... I kinda like the term hobby because it takes the emotion out of it completely for me, but that doesn't really help me on my journey to find compersion I'd love to chat more to those experienced in poly relationships and continue to open my mind and experiences It comes with time and practice and challenging our own fears. It takes time but the aim is to see our metamours as on the same team as us rathet than competition. You're united in your love for your shared partner and wanting them to be happy. It's good common ground to start on . "I love your outlook Lacey... I'm striving to achieve that .. In my bubble on the sofa it's very easy...but obviously reality is much harder. I like the 'competition' vs 'on the same team' POV | |||
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"I'm about to finish reading The Ethical Slut, and it talks a lot about changing our perception of love and sex being a scarce resource to being an abundant one. The more love and sex we give and share the more we open our hearts and lives to receive. They talk about a slut utopia where we all create not just romantic life-partners through sex and intimacy, but friends, familites, communities and tribes. Recreational sex that's shared and explored, not exclusively to make babies and consumate marriages, but to socialise and have fun - pleasure for its own sake. Reminds me of another great book I read called Sex at Dawn, and the fact that we're evolved from Bonobos - apes that have and share sex together as a way to play, socialise and forge and strengthen friendships and their entire community. Unfortunately, the religious and socio-cultural programming around love and sex over the last few thousand years are still deeply, strongly embedded within our society." Very good, I agree !!! | |||
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"The only way it works is if you are totally open, honest and talk to each other; remembering the most important thing, you both listen to each other. You might not always agree but an honest conversation could lead to an acceptable understanding for all. Don’t let those little niggles or assumptions get to you or indeed your desires pass you by, talk them through. I would totally agree good point well made but if your othhalf shuts down any attempt at discussion (and not just about sex but other things too)where do you go from there??" I’ve been there, ex wouldn’t talk about anything (sexual or other wise) and it was a tough 7 years of trying various techniques to get some kind of discussion, decision, out of him on even the simplest of things. For me the only answer was to leave as my sanity couldn’t take it anymore, there is only so much you can give of yourself or indeed compromise yourself before it eats you from the inside out. | |||
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"The only way it works is if you are totally open, honest and talk to each other; remembering the most important thing, you both listen to each other. You might not always agree but an honest conversation could lead to an acceptable understanding for all. Don’t let those little niggles or assumptions get to you or indeed your desires pass you by, talk them through. Exactly this! Thank you Spurs. Talking honestly is the key. And questions. And trying to let go of fear. Why can't I explain stuff without rambling? Answers on a postcard please. " It really is.... as for letting go of fear, I had this stuck inside my wardrobe for 4 years, so every morning it reminded me of my choice.... Fear has two meanings:- Forget everything and run or Face everything and rise For me that was I can forget having an intimate life with anyone as not letting anyone else close again, so the barriers went up and if I got a whiff or feeling of it I ran. Last year after 4 years, I decided to slowly lower the barriers and chose to face my fear..... it is a mindset that only you can control. You have a life, live it, make those hard choices, take those steps you are scared off, as you really do not know where they will lead...... they could lead you to something quite delightful | |||
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I personally think my previous relationships would have been better had we openly discussed our kinks; and communicated our needs and desires. I fancied so many men during our relationship and I would never have left my partner for them - but I would have adored some passion with them. Because something about us clicked?
I’m now exploring separating sex and love and learning to enjoy my body without the pressure of finding a relationship. I think as long as no one is harmed during the process - and that everyone is open and authentic about their intentions it should be treated as a hobby. However both men and woman have been conditioned now be it through religion; patriarchy or just our society as a whole that you commit and that means monogamy. I think it should be challenged.
From all the books magazines and tv shows I read growing up as a girl it was frowned upon to sleep around and it was seen as a poor quality and not “marriage material” 1. Who said I wanted marriage and 2. A woman knowing what she needs to feel pleasure and satisfaction from and how to get it is viewed as “low grade”? Really ???? | |||
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"I grew up in a non monogamous household. It was never sex that caused damage, always lies. It has made me value honesty above anything else. Sex as a hobby is a good explanation but personally I would never add intimacy into that situation. I think the differing meanings of intimacy are possibly in play here. Physical intimacy is one thing, and by that I refer to sex. Emotional intimacy is another entirely and I believe that is where danger can lie. Thank you for sharing your history a little, it means a lot, I'm hoping I am right that you mean a consentually non monogamous household otherwise my next question, as always feel free to tell me not to be nosey, I'd irrelevant. Do you think that there was an element of not wanting to cause problems with some of the lies that did cause them, or do you think that it was a "being caught out" kind of situation? I appreciate that looking back you would have a different view to at the time. " Non consensual. Intimacy for me is about being your true self. And allowing someone to see who you really are. The good and the bad. Accepting all of those things in each other. If you can’t accept who you are then your partner surely can’t either, because that’s a side of you they do not know. I think the lying/cheating is purely trying to cover their true self. Not necessarily in an intentionally harmful way, maybe even trying to protect the other person from a side of them they feel is not worthy. Growing up with this has definitely made me ok with sex outside of a relationship. The idea of someone not trusting me to be their true self breaks me. Most of my married friends think that this means I have no self worth. I do. I just value real. Society does not. | |||
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"As someone who comes from a background where monogamy can be the only option and then finding myself emotionally attached to a polyamorous person, it's been a tremendously hard learning curve... I kinda like the term hobby because it takes the emotion out of it completely for me, but that doesn't really help me on my journey to find compersion I'd love to chat more to those experienced in poly relationships and continue to open my mind and experiences It comes with time and practice and challenging our own fears. It takes time but the aim is to see our metamours as on the same team as us rathet than competition. You're united in your love for your shared partner and wanting them to be happy. It's good common ground to start on .
I love your outlook Lacey... I'm striving to achieve that .. In my bubble on the sofa it's very easy...but obviously reality is much harder. I like the 'competition' vs 'on the same team' POV"Reality is of course harder but holiding those healthy ideas in the logical part of your mind is the first big step. Many don't even get that far. The next step is fighting that irrational fear knawing away at you with the logic. Also at times just sitting with your discomfort is necessary until you can come out the other side of the situation and realise all those scary things in your mind didn’t happen. | |||
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"This thread has definitely had us talking over the past few days. We said when we first started our journey into swinging that we'd always only play as a couple. However things evolve over time and with childcare restrictions making finding time to play together difficult we have been talking about playing separately. this thread has certainly offered us a new perspective on the morality of seperate play. We are still very much in the discussion phase but reading peoples thoughts about treating sex similar to any other hobby has definitely made us consider it more of an option. Suppose we just wanted to say thank you to everyone who has offered something to this topic." I'm glad if it has helped you. It's certainly helped me understand different ideas. | |||
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