FabSwingers.com forum: Heart disease and diabetes

By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

Heart disease and diabetes can be reversed on a whole food plant based diet. True or false?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Is that a loaded question?

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By *ittle_brat_evie!!Woman
over a year ago

evesham

False. Depends on they types of illnesses and a variety of other things.

Type 1 diabetes cannot be reversed for example.

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By *amish SMan
over a year ago

Eastleigh

False, think about it.

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By *innie The MinxWoman
over a year ago

Under the Duvet

Some types of diabetes can be managed or apparently reversed by diet.

Not sure about heart disease though.

Plenty of info on t'internet

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By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)

Dichotomies are unsuitable for such questions, for medical advice consult your doctor etc.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

Think about what? Okay I should have specified type 2 diabetes.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

There is a Documentary on YouTube called Forks Over Knives. It has massively opened my eyes as it has scientific research to back it up.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

It's a well known fact type 2 diabetes can be reversed through diet, not just a plant based one.

Studies have shown reversal of heart disease in some cases on a plant based diet. I haven't read them just the headline numbers. I would guess that those with severe heart disease cannot be reversed, those that did may have been in the early stages and caught it just in time.

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By *icecouple561Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

East Sussex

I've read several articles that say that Type 2 diabetes can be reversed by diet. That diet has to be maintained for the rest of the person's life though.

I tend to take the medical profession's advice and then do my own research too but I'd be extremely wary of Youtube doctoring

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Type 2 can be reversed but not with all cases

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Plaque build up can't be reversed heart disease

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

Why don't you watch it and form your own opinion.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

Erm, yes it can. There is literally proof in the documentary.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

Well that's an assumption of evidence that you haven't seen. It's an hour and thirty eight minutes long. Why not check it out for yourself.

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By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)

If it's legitimate it'll be in more authoritative scientific sources than a documentary and/or YouTube.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"If it's legitimate it'll be in more authoritative scientific sources than a documentary and/or YouTube."

I was just about to post similar. YouTube is dangerous in terms of info pushed on there, a lot of it with no substantiation whatsoever.

Find peer reviewed studies to determine if there is any truth in what is being said.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Heart disease and diabetes can be reversed on a whole food plant based diet. True or false? "

False...

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Well that's an assumption of evidence that you haven't seen. It's an hour and thirty eight minutes long. Why not check it out for yourself. "

Cans a plant based diet help with the reply+quote button so people know to whom you are answering??

I quite like my insulin as I find it a bit moorish.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

T2 diabetes can be reversed in some situations by diet. Not always.

Heart disease? That term encompasses a whole smorgasbord of illnesses. However for ischaemic heart disease (causes angina/heart attacks) I’m not aware of any randomised controlled placebo controlled studies that show reversal (and if there were then it would be a standard intervention in IHD). That said, diet could certainly prevent IHD along with other lifestyle measures.

I’m innately cynical about YouTube films being evidence-based on the true sense of the term evidence-based.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

You lost me at YouTube

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

I'm sure you would complain if it was still on Netflix or you had to say for it.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

You haven't even seen what it's about. There is a study withing the documentary that involved 500,000 people. I'm not sure if that is extensive enough for you. Also the leading heart surgeon in his field of heart bypass surgery studying the cause of heart disease and not just sorting the problem out for a while.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"T2 diabetes can be reversed in some situations by diet. Not always.

I’m innately cynical about YouTube films being evidence-based on the true sense of the term evidence-based. "

It's on YouTube because it's free. Until Two weeks ago it was on Netflix, does that make it any better.

Why not watch it first before you dismiss it?

https://youtu.be/ICDRYEpNYtI

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By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)

"T2 diabetes can be reversed in some situations by diet. Not always.

I’m innately cynical about YouTube films being evidence-based on the true sense of the term evidence-based.

It's on YouTube because it's free. Until Two weeks ago it was on Netflix, does that make it any better.

Why not watch it first before you dismiss it?

https://youtu.be/ICDRYEpNYtI"

They both have the same level of scientific credibility, Netflix and YouTube. Zero.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"T2 diabetes can be reversed in some situations by diet. Not always.

I’m innately cynical about YouTube films being evidence-based on the true sense of the term evidence-based.

It's on YouTube because it's free. Until Two weeks ago it was on Netflix, does that make it any better.

Why not watch it first before you dismiss it?

https://youtu.be/ICDRYEpNYtI

They both have the same level of scientific credibility, Netflix and YouTube. Zero."

So what platform has scientific credibility for a documentary?

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By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)

Documentaries aren't scientifically credible.

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By *acey_RedWoman
over a year ago

Liverpool

My heart disease was caused by pneumonia. Unless there's a plant I can eat that acts as a time machine and somehow go back in time and prevent that, then I'm pretty sure it can't. Pretty sure diet can't fix congenital heart disease either.

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By *den-Valley-coupleCouple
over a year ago

Cumbria

"Heart disease and diabetes can be reversed on a whole food plant based diet. True or false? "

Studies in the US says it has very little to do with the food you consume but more to do with the amount so you can still eat meat fats and sugars but only in very small amounts ..

Also suggesting that as a human will benefit greatly from stave Period 3 to 4 days of consuming virtually no calories cut sugar levels in blood lower blood pressure and also slow down the ageing process encouraging cell repair..

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By *acey_RedWoman
over a year ago

Liverpool

Oh and I haven't eaten meat for 17 years. Didn't prevent it and hasn't fixed it.

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By *ittle_brat_evie!!Woman
over a year ago

evesham

"T2 diabetes can be reversed in some situations by diet. Not always.

I’m innately cynical about YouTube films being evidence-based on the true sense of the term evidence-based.

It's on YouTube because it's free. Until Two weeks ago it was on Netflix, does that make it any better.

Why not watch it first before you dismiss it?

https://youtu.be/ICDRYEpNYtI

They both have the same level of scientific credibility, Netflix and YouTube. Zero.

So what platform has scientific credibility for a documentary? "

What you need to do is look critically at who funded the documentary and also who funded the studies. Often you find that companies seeking to benefit from the study will fund them.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"T2 diabetes can be reversed in some situations by diet. Not always.

I’m innately cynical about YouTube films being evidence-based on the true sense of the term evidence-based.

It's on YouTube because it's free. Until Two weeks ago it was on Netflix, does that make it any better.

Why not watch it first before you dismiss it?

https://youtu.be/ICDRYEpNYtI

They both have the same level of scientific credibility, Netflix and YouTube. Zero.

So what platform has scientific credibility for a documentary?

What you need to do is look critically at who funded the documentary and also who funded the studies. Often you find that companies seeking to benefit from the study will fund them. "

I could tell you but you still wouldn't believe me if I told you. If a study showing that meat, Dairy and eggs are healthy and an essential part of a daily diet was funded by the same companies would you question that?

It's literally telling people to eat a whole food plant based diet. You know vegetables and fruits. What company owns all the vegetables and Fruits in the world?

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"Oh and I haven't eaten meat for 17 years. Didn't prevent it and hasn't fixed it. "

Dairy and eggs have a part to plat too. The scientists and doctors literally show all their studies and research in the documentary. There are two people in the documentary that have type two diabetes and they reverse it after 22 weeks on a whole food plant-based diet.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"Documentaries aren't scientifically credible."

Even if there are scientists talking about their studies they did. One if them heading up a study of five hundred thousand people. That's not enough?

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By *ymguy1966Man
over a year ago

Port Talbot

"Heart disease and diabetes can be reversed on a whole food plant based diet. True or false? "

Lol

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

The China study : The Most Comprehensive Study of Nutrition Ever Conducted and the Startling Implications for Diet, Weight Loss and Long-term Health is a book by T. Colin Campbell and his son, Thomas M. Campbell II. It was first published in the United States in January 2005 and had sold over one million copies as of October 2013, making it one of America's best-selling books about nutrition.[2][3]

Thomas Colin Campbell (born March 14, 1934) is an American biochemist who specializes in the effect of nutrition on long-term health. He is the Jacob Gould Schurman Professor Emeritus of Nutritional Biochemistry at Cornell University.

Campbell has become known for his advocacy of a low-fat, whole foods, plant-based diet. He is the author of over 300 research papers and three books, The China Study (2005, co-authored with his son, Thomas M. Campbell II, which became one of America's best-selling books about nutrition), Whole (2013) and The Low-Carb Fraud (2014).[1] Campbell featured in the 2011 American documentary Forks Over Knives.

Campbell was one of the lead scientists of the China–Cornell–Oxford Project on diet and disease, set up in 1983 by Cornell University, the University of Oxford, and the Chinese Academy of Preventive Medicine to explore the relationship between nutrition and cancer, heart, and metabolic diseases. The study was described by The New York Times as "the Grand Prix of epidemiology".[2]

United States

Education

B.S. (1956), pre-veterinary medicine, Pennsylvania State University

Veterinary school, one year, University of Georgia

M.S. (1958), nutrition and biochemistry, Cornell University

Ph.D. (1961), biochemistry, nutrition, and microbiology, Cornell University

Occupation

Nutritional biochemist

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I have watched lots of different documentaries on this, and there is comprehensive proof that a whole foods plant-based diet can reverse both. And also much more.

Check out what the health, which has a long list of all the facts and who’s research this is based on, so all credible sources

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By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)

"Documentaries aren't scientifically credible.

Even if there are scientists talking about their studies they did. One if them heading up a study of five hundred thousand people. That's not enough? "

Nope

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"Documentaries aren't scientifically credible.

Even if there are scientists talking about their studies they did. One if them heading up a study of five hundred thousand people. That's not enough?

Nope"

Because you know more about health and nutrition than a biochemist.

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By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)

"Documentaries aren't scientifically credible.

Even if there are scientists talking about their studies they did. One if them heading up a study of five hundred thousand people. That's not enough?

Nope

Because you know more about health and nutrition than a biochemist. "

Because I understand why documentaries are inappropriate means for sharing scientific information.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Documentaries aren't scientifically credible.

Even if there are scientists talking about their studies they did. One if them heading up a study of five hundred thousand people. That's not enough?

Nope

Because you know more about health and nutrition than a biochemist. "

Just because he is an expert in his field and has a PhD etc. Does not mean his study is perfect plenty of studies out there on hundreds of subjects from so called experts that are complete horse shit, massively biased and have been universally panned.

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By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)

"Documentaries aren't scientifically credible.

Even if there are scientists talking about their studies they did. One if them heading up a study of five hundred thousand people. That's not enough?

Nope

Because you know more about health and nutrition than a biochemist.

And presentation in documentaries isn't subject to appropriate objective scrutiny and is done for the purposes of the documentary not factual presentation.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"Documentaries aren't scientifically credible.

Even if there are scientists talking about their studies they did. One if them heading up a study of five hundred thousand people. That's not enough?

Nope

Because you know more about health and nutrition than a biochemist.

He was raised, lived on and worked on a dairy farm. Surely he would be bias towards the dairy and meat industry not vegetables and fruits?

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"Documentaries aren't scientifically credible.

Even if there are scientists talking about their studies they did. One if them heading up a study of five hundred thousand people. That's not enough?

Nope

Because you know more about health and nutrition than a biochemist.

Because I understand why documentaries are inappropriate means for sharing scientific information. "

Read his book then the China Study.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"Documentaries aren't scientifically credible.

Even if there are scientists talking about their studies they did. One if them heading up a study of five hundred thousand people. That's not enough?

Nope

Because you know more about health and nutrition than a biochemist.

And presentation in documentaries isn't subject to appropriate objective scrutiny and is done for the purposes of the documentary not factual presentation."

Dr Caldwell Esselstyn

Dr John A McDougall

Look them up and read their studies then if everything in the documentary is bullshit.

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By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)

"Documentaries aren't scientifically credible.

Even if there are scientists talking about their studies they did. One if them heading up a study of five hundred thousand people. That's not enough?

Nope

Because you know more about health and nutrition than a biochemist.

And presentation in documentaries isn't subject to appropriate objective scrutiny and is done for the purposes of the documentary not factual presentation.

Dr Caldwell Esselstyn

Dr John A McDougall

Look them up and read their studies then if everything in the documentary is bullshit. "

Documentaries are not reliable sources. Period.

The information may or may not be valid. But if you want to make a claim, do so with reliable sources.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"False, think about it. "

Type 2 diabetes potentially can be reversed by a plant based diet. (I am a type 2 diabetic and went vegan last year, so I'm living the experiment). Suger and excessive carbs are major factors, so reducing or eliminating those helps also. If you want to reverse / put in remission then a very strictly controlled diet is required.

The surgeon who pioneered the heart bypass certainly believes that a plant based diet is optimum for human health, and is a huge advocate of people living on a plant based diet. If you are genuinely interested, watch the documentary "What the health" on Netflix.

Of course, fab is an excellent source for sexual adventures, but less so as a medical reference site, so as always talk to your chosen medical professional.

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By *entleman55Man
over a year ago

S’th West Mc/r

For me as an ex type 2 diabetic I can honestly say that with a change of mind set to a diet of more plant based food and a reduced in carbohydrate intake to can help reverse the symptoms and need for medication. My Hba1c went from 87 to 36 in a year and is now steady at 38-40.

Good luck in your quest to reduce yours.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I’m innately cynical about YouTube films being evidence-based on the true sense of the term evidence-based. "

It is a properly produced and researched documentary. It's also on Netflix, which is where I saw it. There are three great documentaries to watch:

Cowspiracy

Forks over knives

What the health

As always, consult your GP not fab.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"What you need to do is look critically at who funded the documentary and also who funded the studies. Often you find that companies seeking to benefit from the study will fund them. "

And also, who is funding the counter arguments! The meat, dairy and sugar industry is big business, and in the states, big business counts.

Regarding the platform, if the same documentary was shown on Channel 4, the BBC or something else make a difference to your thoughts?

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"False, think about it.

Of course, fab is an excellent source for sexual adventures, but less so as a medical reference site, so as always talk to your chosen medical professional."

Haha thank you for your input. It's good to hear from someone that has actually been through the change.

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By *acey_RedWoman
over a year ago

Liverpool

"Oh and I haven't eaten meat for 17 years. Didn't prevent it and hasn't fixed it.

Okay but how would not eating eggs or dairy undo the damage to my heart from pneumonia?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Okay but how would not eating eggs or dairy undo the damage to my heart from pneumonia? "

No idea if that damage can be undone, because I'm not a doctor. However, speak to your GP who may be able to advise you.

Some, but all types of heart disease may be reversible. It's a huge area of medicine. Types of heart disease related to diet may very well be reversible. However, as stated numerous times, I'm not a Doctor and Fab should not be your source for medical advice.

Type 2 diabetes can be reversed by a 100% plant based diet, and as I understand it, its one of the areas actively under investigation.

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By *uietlykinkymeWoman
over a year ago

kinky land

I have excellent control of my diabetes but my gp said I'd never not be diabetic

I don't think it's as simple as it can be reversed. Maybe it's more accurate to say if diabetes type 2 becomes an issue then intervention (to include dietary changes) can keep you out of the diabetic diagnosis for a period of time.

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By *ittle_brat_evie!!Woman
over a year ago

evesham

"T2 diabetes can be reversed in some situations by diet. Not always.

I’m innately cynical about YouTube films being evidence-based on the true sense of the term evidence-based.

It's on YouTube because it's free. Until Two weeks ago it was on Netflix, does that make it any better.

Why not watch it first before you dismiss it?

https://youtu.be/ICDRYEpNYtI

They both have the same level of scientific credibility, Netflix and YouTube. Zero.

So what platform has scientific credibility for a documentary?

What you need to do is look critically at who funded the documentary and also who funded the studies. Often you find that companies seeking to benefit from the study will fund them.

It's literally telling people to eat a whole food plant based diet. You know vegetables and fruits. What company owns all the vegetables and Fruits in the world? "

I'm not saying that the research isn't correct, I'm just saying that only a fool believes research outright without casting a critical eye on who funded the research and what they hope to achieve from the outcomes.

No company owns all of the fruit and vegetables however there are councils and government groups who like to push agendas as well as groups such as PETA and other animal rights groups who would love research that shows we should all abandon eating animals.

Critical thinking is the way forward.

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By *ittle_brat_evie!!Woman
over a year ago

evesham

"What you need to do is look critically at who funded the documentary and also who funded the studies. Often you find that companies seeking to benefit from the study will fund them.

And also, who is funding the counter arguments! The meat, dairy and sugar industry is big business, and in the states, big business counts.

Regarding the platform, if the same documentary was shown on Channel 4, the BBC or something else make a difference to your thoughts?"

I never questioned the platform of the documentary so, no it wouldn't make a difference to my thoughts on that.

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By *acey_RedWoman
over a year ago

Liverpool

"Okay but how would not eating eggs or dairy undo the damage to my heart from pneumonia?

No idea if that damage can be undone, because I'm not a doctor. However, speak to your GP who may be able to advise you.

Type 2 diabetes can be reversed by a 100% plant based diet, and as I understand it, its one of the areas actively under investigation."

I'm not seeking medical advice on fab

. I know my condition very well. I've lived with it for 7 years. I know the damage can't be undone and I'll be medicated for the rest of my life. That's what I've been told by multiple consultants, including a national specialist anyway. The OP seems to believe they are wrong though and I can fix it through diet, hence my question to them.

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