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"I struggle with this, who will support her and her children? The press perhaps as they are probably making money by supporting her. Has she still got a British passport? Have her children got British passports? To me, the British government have to make tough decisions or just open the doors. Wonder what America or Australia would do? " She will claim benefits presumably or maybe get a job on a bakery or something... | |||
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"I don't understand why she wants to come back. She hates this country, it's people and way of life! Isn't that why she left in the first place! "She's probably hoping that her trial/whatever will take years and cost US (the British taxpayer) stupid amounts of money. Thereby fucking us over. Answer - ditch and one bullet, which is more that thousands of their victims got. | |||
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"I don't understand why she wants to come back. She hates this country, it's people and way of life! Isn't that why she left in the first place!
She's probably hoping that her trial/whatever will take years and cost US (the British taxpayer) stupid amounts of money. Thereby fucking us over.
Answer - ditch and one bullet, which is more that thousands of their victims got. "Many ditches and many bullets like they did in Serbia? Or here's a thought how about huge camps and gas chambers, you'd be ok with that I assume | |||
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"To what country would you deport a British citizen? Islamistan. No, wait. Muslimistan. That one. "  | |||
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"I struggle with this, who will support her and her children? The press perhaps as they are probably making money by supporting her. Has she still got a British passport? Have her children got British passports? To me, the British government have to make tough decisions or just open the doors. Wonder what America or Australia would do? " Hasn't she lost her children? How are The press supporting here?most of the headlines have been vitriolic | |||
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"I don't understand why she wants to come back. She hates this country, it's people and way of life! Isn't that why she left in the first place!
She's probably hoping that her trial/whatever will take years and cost US (the British taxpayer) stupid amounts of money. Thereby fucking us over.
Answer - ditch and one bullet, which is more that thousands of their victims got.
Many ditches and many bullets like they did in Serbia? Or here's a thought how about huge camps and gas chambers, you'd be ok with that I assume"The daily mail writ large | |||
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"I don't understand why she wants to come back. She hates this country, it's people and way of life! Isn't that why she left in the first place! " | |||
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"Shes not currently a British citizen" Depends if that decision was lawful, it's not legal for the UK government to make someone stateless which is what they seem to have done | |||
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"No one should be made stateless. The Home Office is so messed up. The problem is the precedent you set when dealing with people who's parents are immigrants. Where do you draw the line?" | |||
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"This is awful, she was just a teenager when she left caught up in the romantic notion of it all, she has learned a harsh lesson in life like most teenagers has got a little lost, she has lost all her children, she will be very broken, frightened and wanting to be with her family everyone deserves a second chance have some empathy I am sure most of us have done something that we are not proud of okay not as extreme as her granted but I think if we cannot forgive then we are no better than them.. " We are no better than people that beheaded innocent human beings? Are you being serious? | |||
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"This is awful, she was just a teenager when she left caught up in the romantic notion of it all, she has learned a harsh lesson in life like most teenagers has got a little lost, she has lost all her children, she will be very broken, frightened and wanting to be with her family everyone deserves a second chance have some empathy I am sure most of us have done something that we are not proud of okay not as extreme as her granted but I think if we cannot forgive then we are no better than them.. " | |||
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"This is awful, she was just a teenager when she left caught up in the romantic notion of it all, she has learned a harsh lesson in life like most teenagers has got a little lost, she has lost all her children, she will be very broken, frightened and wanting to be with her family everyone deserves a second chance have some empathy I am sure most of us have done something that we are not proud of okay not as extreme as her granted but I think if we cannot forgive then we are no better than them.. " I agree with you. | |||
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"She has no children currently. They all died. " yup. | |||
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"Just a simple question, why aren’t the muslin countries coming to her aid?" Why would Muslim countries come to her aid? | |||
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"If anyone disagrees, then shame on you. To all those who agree, I'll shake your hand "100% agree | |||
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"UK citizens who visit countries such as those occupied by ISIS (but not run by) and commit petty crimes (let alone support ISIS) are often subject to horrific treatment / penalties which are not part of those countries law (I.e. the law is brushed aside). As she chose to support an illegal organisation who deeply oppose the west (hence her motivation to leave) and who carry out obscene and disturbing acts against western people, we all need to agree she doesn't belong here. Our recent ancestors fought in wars to protect us from worse than scum, and win our freedom. That should be a good enough reason to bend the law and keep Shamima Begum the hell away from British soil. " Where I agree with that she shouldnt come back, your arguement doesnt work. A government shouldnt be allowed to fix a problem by breaking its own laws. By disregarding the countries law you effectively make that fought for freedom redundant. ISIS attacked everyone that didnt agree with them, not just westerners. A lot of statements here seem to be made from an emotional state. It needs to be looked at in a smarter way. Dont get me wrong I think Shamima Begum is an arrogant prick and shouldnt be given any benefit of the doubt, but the situation, should it arise, requires a cool head to get the best for the people of this country. | |||
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"UK citizens who visit countries such as those occupied by ISIS (but not run by) and commit petty crimes (let alone support ISIS) are often subject to horrific treatment / penalties which are not part of those countries law (I.e. the law is brushed aside). As she chose to support an illegal organisation who deeply oppose the west (hence her motivation to leave) and who carry out obscene and disturbing acts against western people, we all need to agree she doesn't belong here. Our recent ancestors fought in wars to protect us from worse than scum, and win our freedom. That should be a good enough reason to bend the law and keep Shamima Begum the hell away from British soil. " also funny how she stayed right up to the point where isis were pushed right back and she wasn’t able to live the cushy life style she had become accustomed to over there and then decided to cry for help | |||
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" Where I agree with that she shouldnt come back, your arguement doesnt work. A government shouldnt be allowed to fix a problem by breaking its own laws. By disregarding the countries law you effectively make that fought for freedom redundant. ISIS attacked everyone that didnt agree with them, not just westerners. A lot of statements here seem to be made from an emotional state. It needs to be looked at in a smarter way. Dont get me wrong I think Shamima Begum is an arrogant prick and shouldnt be given any benefit of the doubt, but the situation, should it arise, requires a cool head to get the best for the people of this country." 'Fought for freedom redundant'? Bahahaha!!! Of course governments should be allowed to amend laws and rules, that's the whole point of having a government! Governments are constantly reviewing and changing laws as a consequence of inadequate current laws, public petitions, new evidence emerging from audits, reviews, research, and various other avenues. Unfortunately, as the current law stands, it has given the court of appeal no option but to allow Begum to appeal. It would be massively unfortunate for for our heroes of the past who died fighting for our freedom, and also unfortunate for all of us who know she shouldn't be allowed back, if eventually she does return. Let's all hope the outcome is one that banishes her from UK soil for good. | |||
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" Where I agree with that she shouldnt come back, your arguement doesnt work. A government shouldnt be allowed to fix a problem by breaking its own laws. By disregarding the countries law you effectively make that fought for freedom redundant. ISIS attacked everyone that didnt agree with them, not just westerners. A lot of statements here seem to be made from an emotional state. It needs to be looked at in a smarter way. Dont get me wrong I think Shamima Begum is an arrogant prick and shouldnt be given any benefit of the doubt, but the situation, should it arise, requires a cool head to get the best for the people of this country. 'Fought for freedom redundant'? Bahahaha!!! Of course governments should be allowed to amend laws and rules, that's the whole point of having a government! Governments are constantly reviewing and changing laws as a consequence of inadequate current laws, public petitions, new evidence emerging from audits, reviews, research, and various other avenues. Unfortunately, as the current law stands, it has given the court of appeal no option but to allow Begum to appeal. It would be massively unfortunate for for our heroes of the past who died fighting for our freedom, and also unfortunate for all of us who know she shouldn't be allowed back, if eventually she does return. Let's all hope the outcome is one that banishes her from UK soil for good. " Exactly, amend laws not break laws, key difference. Personally I think she is trying to play the system, her past interviews seem to show someone who thinks she is entitled to whatever she wants. | |||
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"^It's not breaking the law as she has Bangledeshi citizenship also. Unfortunately they don't want anything to do with her (and obviously she would rather come here anyway). So of course she's playing the system. Shes not chosen to appeal Bangladesh's decision to deny her entry their, so what gives her the right to choose the UK. We don't owe her anything." Her father is a Bangladesh citizen she would be entitled to citizenship there if she hadn't gone upsetting the civilised world by joining a murder cult, plating Gestapo girl and generally being nasty. You are all aware she was in a policing - disapline unit don't you? | |||
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"Just a simple question, why aren’t the muslin countries coming to her aid?" Why would they? Surely the simpler question is why she should not face the legal system in her own country. Her religion is irrelevant to British law. | |||
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"Shes not chosen to appeal Bangladesh's decision to deny her entry their, so what gives her the right to choose the UK. We don't owe her anything." Of course we do. We owe her the same as any British citizen. | |||
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"Of course, she chose to come to the UK, would be daft not to prisoners are treated better. If I remember correctly Bangladesh revoked her citizenship which left her with only a UK citizenship. So their government were quicker on the draw for that, therefore the UK have to deal with her since it is "illegal for any country to make its citizen stateless" (again cant break a law just to get out of stuff). The only legal options are run through this and see where it goes or take it to the international court of justice and get it pushed onto Bangladesh to deal with" No I'm pretty the UK cancelled her citizenship first and basically said, your dad is Bengali, you can be a Bangladeshi now therefore not leaving her stateless. Even though she's never even been there I don't think. | |||
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"Shes not chosen to appeal Bangladesh's decision to deny her entry their, so what gives her the right to choose the UK. We don't owe her anything. Of course we do. We owe her the same as any British citizen. " We owe her zilch! The choice to revoke the British citizenship which she was kindly given (as we all here were kindly given, but she then Shat on by joining ISIS) was correct. However, as Bangladesh don't want any affiliation with her (understandably) even though she technically has more grounds to be established there rather than here, she may get a hearing. However, that does not mean she'll be given the green light, and hopefully she gets sent back to Timbuktu | |||
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"No I'm pretty the UK cancelled her citizenship first and basically said, your dad is Bengali, you can be a Bangladeshi now therefore not leaving her stateless. Even though she's never even been there I don't think. " We are both a bit incorrect on this aspect. The official story is she doesnt have Bangladeshi citizenship according to the Bangladeshi government, so she remain UK unless evidence shows otherwise. Viking is right, she isnt owed anything other than a trial for crimes against humanity. As mentioned above she was part of a discipline squad which served the same purpose as the SS did in WW2. | |||
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"No I'm pretty the UK cancelled her citizenship first and basically said, your dad is Bengali, you can be a Bangladeshi now therefore not leaving her stateless. Even though she's never even been there I don't think. We are both a bit incorrect on this aspect. The official story is she doesnt have Bangladeshi citizenship according to the Bangladeshi government, so she remain UK unless evidence shows otherwise. Viking is right, she isnt owed anything other than a trial for crimes against humanity. As mentioned above she was part of a discipline squad which served the same purpose as the SS did in WW2. " At the end of the day, she's a very silly and probably slightly psychotic, deffinatly still a fundamentalist. If she wins an appeal, a big if, she can be tried for her crimes and for receiving terrorist training abroad. She's unlikely to be handed to Syria or Iraq for trial. If she loses she would still face deportation as undesirable. Eventually, but would that still leave her likely to get tried and convicted if she's been stripped of citizenship? | |||
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"I struggle with this, who will support her and her children? The press perhaps as they are probably making money by supporting her. Has she still got a British passport? Have her children got British passports? To me, the British government have to make tough decisions or just open the doors. Wonder what America or Australia would do? " I thought her children had died  | |||
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"I struggle with this, who will support her and her children? The press perhaps as they are probably making money by supporting her. Has she still got a British passport? Have her children got British passports? To me, the British government have to make tough decisions or just open the doors. Wonder what America or Australia would do? I thought her children had died "The did. The youngest died of a lung infection in the refuge camp. Im conflicted on whether feeling to feel sorry for her kids, as they are innocent and were unlucky enough to have that situation put on them. But then it was all of their mothers doing. | |||
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"This is awful, she was just a teenager when she left caught up in the romantic notion of it all, she has learned a harsh lesson in life like most teenagers has got a little lost, she has lost all her children, she will be very broken, frightened and wanting to be with her family everyone deserves a second chance have some empathy I am sure most of us have done something that we are not proud of okay not as extreme as her granted but I think if we cannot forgive then we are no better than them.. " Romantic notion? She watched videos of beheadings and thought it was OK and that she wanted to be a part of that. She even said herself that she was OK with it. She's shown no remorse and only wanted to come back here when she realised she had no food and that Isis were no longer winning. She hasn't once condemned all the horrific acts that Isis have committed. She even said she had a good time there and doesn't regret going. She's not as much of a victim as people believe, she's manipulative and I bet she has no intention of being de-radicalised. | |||
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" However, as Bangladesh don't want any affiliation with her (understandably) even though she technically has more grounds to be established there rather than here, she may get a hearing. However, that does not mean she'll be given the green light, and hopefully she gets sent back to Timbuktu " Timbuktu isn't even on the same continent as Bangladesh ffs Topics likes this are always great for highlighting people ignorance | |||
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"We owe her zilch! The choice to revoke the British citizenship which she was kindly given (as we all here were kindly given, but she then Shat on by joining ISIS) was correct." I was never "kindly" given British citizenship. I just am a British citizen, as was she when she was groomed as a young child. I'm curious why anyone wouldn't want her back. Don't you want her to pay for her crimes? More importantly, don't you want to track the contacts and acquaintances she has? I genuinely see no reason not to bring her home. | |||
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" Timbuktu isn't even on the same continent as Bangladesh ffs Topics likes this are always great for highlighting people ignorance " I think it was meant to be facetious. | |||
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"She's not as much of a victim as people believe, she's manipulative and I bet she has no intention of being de-radicalised. " Surely if she was manipulative, she would lie and say she regrets what she did? She's not intelligent enough to do that. And I'm not sure that radical beliefs discredit the idea that someone was "brainwashed." If anything, her current behaviour demonstrates that she was spellbound by a cause as a teenager and has not had the space to explore her own thoughts on it. | |||
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"And I'm not sure that radical beliefs discredit the idea that someone was "brainwashed." If anything, her current behaviour demonstrates that she was spellbound by a cause as a teenager and has not had the space to explore her own thoughts on it. " Even though she left as a minor, she has to face the repercussions of her actions. Cause and effect are fundamentals of the Universe. Brainwashed, manipulative, misguided, enlightended doesnt change that the actions she made from the choices she chose. To touch on you previous post, I thinks its cause distance from us in general means safety, as its another hurdle to contend with if someone is planning terrorism in the UK. I would prefer this option because of what I said above, but this is more of an emotional response. If I was smart, I would trial her. It shows the rest of the world the the UK deals with its shit, which would bump up the reputation of the UK. And it keeps its friends close and enemies closer. | |||
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"I wonder if she was tried for treason she would be in such a rush to comeback? How can she honestly say ‘oh I’ve changed my mind about sticking my fingers up at the UK ,ill comeback now’,my thoughts are with the families who lost someone or those injured by the terror attacks ,I think it’s a straight no ,you pull a stunt like that you can do one ,and as for utilising tax payers money ! Pfffffft ,give it to the victims who suffered under Isis " This is illogical. There are plenty who live on our island, who stick two fingers up. And, coincidentally, they often do so by not paying taxes. | |||
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"Correct me if I'm wrong but Isn't she the same young lady who said the Manchester Arena bombing was JUSTIFIED?" Why would that be relevant? As far as I'm aware, freedom of thought is still a thing. | |||
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"Correct me if I'm wrong but Isn't she the same young lady who said the Manchester Arena bombing was JUSTIFIED? Why would that be relevant? As far as I'm aware, freedom of thought is still a thing." It is relevant because she's a radical. Freedom of thought is a thing but judging from her attitude and lack of remorse I think she would just at the opportunity to rejoin and participate in terrorist activity | |||
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"the answer to this is simple let the isis whore rot in the shit house that is a refugee camp dont forget she has no british passport any longer and thought it was ok to chop peoples heads off we all know why she wants to come back once she is here she is here forever and you and i pay for it" Why is she a whore? | |||
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"Just a simple question, why aren’t the muslin countries coming to her aid?" Because the overwhelming majority of muslims are opposed to IS too? Or maybe because she is very much our problem no there's? | |||
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"I'm in two minds over the whole situation. I've tried to consider this without emotion, looking only at the legality and I still can't make my mind up. One thing I am sure about, I hope some of you lot are not called up for jury service, you've either found her guilty or innocent already, without hearing a word of evidence either way. By all means have an opinion, just bare in mind its likely none of us will be sitting in the court, listening to the presented facts. All we think we know is what's presented by the main stream media. " I've done jury service in the past. As for Begum the facts as seen are that she and friends went of their own free will to join the caliphate knowing what atrocities were going on over there, and initially upon being found in that POW camp showed no remorse, that has since changed due to being clearly told the right things to say to get sympathy from the media but most of us can see right through it. As a serving British soldier I know that woman would happily watch her friends hack my head off on camera and cheer them on, she's my enemy, and I don't see why we should have her back in this country. | |||
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"It cheeses me off that adults can blame a child, particularly young girls ,for being exploited. It happened to young girls in Rotherham when the attitude of the police was they had made a lifestyle choice! WTF..they were children. And there are laws that are supposd to protect children . Ref Begam...the London Police were actualy monitoring her and knew she was planning to go. She was a child of 15..they should have protected her from her self. But what did they do....the moronic silly fuckers gave her a letter to give to her parents about it. How fucking thick is that. This British girl has been let down by British authorities and frankly she should be able to sue the bollocks off them. Until the law is changed a 15ýo is still a child. I dont like what the silly girl did...but her treatment so far has been shamefull. What if she was your 15 yo white daughter lured into a Christian cult and made to do terrible thkngs ....would you say...take her citizenship away. Throw her to the wolfs. No you'd be fighting to get her back to your family . " sue the bollocks of the uk  give you’re head a fucking shake | |||
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"I'm in two minds over the whole situation. I've tried to consider this without emotion, looking only at the legality and I still can't make my mind up. One thing I am sure about, I hope some of you lot are not called up for jury service, you've either found her guilty or innocent already, without hearing a word of evidence either way. By all means have an opinion, just bare in mind its likely none of us will be sitting in the court, listening to the presented facts. All we think we know is what's presented by the main stream media. I've done jury service in the past. As for Begum the facts as seen are that she and friends went of their own free will to join the caliphate knowing what atrocities were going on over there, and initially upon being found in that POW camp showed no remorse, that has since changed due to being clearly told the right things to say to get sympathy from the media but most of us can see right through it. As a serving British soldier I know that woman would happily watch her friends hack my head off on camera and cheer them on, she's my enemy, and I don't see why we should have her back in this country." I've also been called for jury service. 3 times. I've not seen any facts. I've seen the story the media is telling. I've heard the previous Home Secretary explain why the original decision was made. It appears that decision was incorrect and is being challenged. I don't know any more than that, I've not seen any evidence. I'm not saying she's innocent of any crime, or that she's guilty. This case is about her nationality being taken away, not any crimes she may or may not have committed. I'm more than happy to concede it's a highly emotive and passionate subject though. I certainly don't have the answers. | |||
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"9/11 ! ! Say no more "She wasn't responsible | |||
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"UK citizens who visit countries such as those occupied by ISIS (but not run by) and commit petty crimes (let alone support ISIS) are often subject to horrific treatment / penalties which are not part of those countries law (I.e. the law is brushed aside). As she chose to support an illegal organisation who deeply oppose the west (hence her motivation to leave) and who carry out obscene and disturbing acts against western people, we all need to agree she doesn't belong here. Our recent ancestors fought in wars to protect us from worse than scum, and win our freedom. That should be a good enough reason to bend the law and keep Shamima Begum the hell away from British soil. " Were the Iraq and Afghan wars fought for our 'freedom'? | |||
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"UK citizens who visit countries such as those occupied by ISIS (but not run by) and commit petty crimes (let alone support ISIS) are often subject to horrific treatment / penalties which are not part of those countries law (I.e. the law is brushed aside). As she chose to support an illegal organisation who deeply oppose the west (hence her motivation to leave) and who carry out obscene and disturbing acts against western people, we all need to agree she doesn't belong here. Our recent ancestors fought in wars to protect us from worse than scum, and win our freedom. That should be a good enough reason to bend the law and keep Shamima Begum the hell away from British soil. also funny how she stayed right up to the point where isis were pushed right back and she wasn’t able to live the cushy life style she had become accustomed to over there and then decided to cry for help"Yep that war torn Syria must have been like paradise. | |||
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"https://www.change.org/p/government-stop-shamima-begum-coming-back-to-the-uk" Makes you proud it does. | |||
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"No I'm pretty the UK cancelled her citizenship first and basically said, your dad is Bengali, you can be a Bangladeshi now therefore not leaving her stateless. Even though she's never even been there I don't think. We are both a bit incorrect on this aspect. The official story is she doesnt have Bangladeshi citizenship according to the Bangladeshi government, so she remain UK unless evidence shows otherwise. Viking is right, she isnt owed anything other than a trial for crimes against humanity. As mentioned above she was part of a discipline squad which served the same purpose as the SS did in WW2. " I wasn't aware ISIS had gas chambers | |||
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"I struggle with this, who will support her and her children? The press perhaps as they are probably making money by supporting her. Has she still got a British passport? Have her children got British passports? To me, the British government have to make tough decisions or just open the doors. Wonder what America or Australia would do? I thought her children had died
The did. The youngest died of a lung infection in the refuge camp. Im conflicted on whether feeling to feel sorry for her kids, as they are innocent and were unlucky enough to have that situation put on them. But then it was all of their mothers doing."You don't feel sorry that innocent children died? | |||
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"We owe her zilch! The choice to revoke the British citizenship which she was kindly given (as we all here were kindly given, but she then Shat on by joining ISIS) was correct. I was never "kindly" given British citizenship. I just am a British citizen, as was she when she was groomed as a young child. I'm curious why anyone wouldn't want her back. Don't you want her to pay for her crimes? More importantly, don't you want to track the contacts and acquaintances she has? I genuinely see no reason not to bring her home. " Baffling isnt it? | |||
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" Timbuktu isn't even on the same continent as Bangladesh ffs Topics likes this are always great for highlighting people ignorance I think it was meant to be facetious." Its ignorant and racist | |||
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"I'm in two minds over the whole situation. I've tried to consider this without emotion, looking only at the legality and I still can't make my mind up. One thing I am sure about, I hope some of you lot are not called up for jury service, you've either found her guilty or innocent already, without hearing a word of evidence either way. By all means have an opinion, just bare in mind its likely none of us will be sitting in the court, listening to the presented facts. All we think we know is what's presented by the main stream media. I've done jury service in the past. As for Begum the facts as seen are that she and friends went of their own free will to join the caliphate knowing what atrocities were going on over there, and initially upon being found in that POW camp showed no remorse, that has since changed due to being clearly told the right things to say to get sympathy from the media but most of us can see right through it. As a serving British soldier I know that woman would happily watch her friends hack my head off on camera and cheer them on, she's my enemy, and I don't see why we should have her back in this country." The media showing her sympathy? Seriously? | |||
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"I'm in two minds over the whole situation. I've tried to consider this without emotion, looking only at the legality and I still can't make my mind up. One thing I am sure about, I hope some of you lot are not called up for jury service, you've either found her guilty or innocent already, without hearing a word of evidence either way. By all means have an opinion, just bare in mind its likely none of us will be sitting in the court, listening to the presented facts. All we think we know is what's presented by the main stream media. I've done jury service in the past. As for Begum the facts as seen are that she and friends went of their own free will to join the caliphate knowing what atrocities were going on over there, and initially upon being found in that POW camp showed no remorse, that has since changed due to being clearly told the right things to say to get sympathy from the media but most of us can see right through it. As a serving British soldier I know that woman would happily watch her friends hack my head off on camera and cheer them on, she's my enemy, and I don't see why we should have her back in this country." She went as a minor. As such she should have been brought back. | |||
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"She didn't behead them get real plus we have more thugs and sadists in prisons we don't deport them she is a human being who has made mistakes rainwashed at a vulnerable period of development sometimes you have to look at the bigger picture, I am not condoning her actions she will go to prison but she should be allowed to come home.. There are worse people than her who live in out country.. " No she stayed at home and made sure life was comfortable for her husband after he returned from a hard days work beheading people And I'm sorry but when I was 15 I was pretty sure that beheading innocent people was just a little bit wrong | |||
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"It cheeses me off that adults can blame a child, particularly young girls ,for being exploited. It happened to young girls in Rotherham when the attitude of the police was they had made a lifestyle choice! WTF..they were children. And there are laws that are supposd to protect children . Ref Begam...the London Police were actualy monitoring her and knew she was planning to go. She was a child of 15..they should have protected her from her self. But what did they do....the moronic silly fuckers gave her a letter to give to her parents about it. How fucking thick is that. This British girl has been let down by British authorities and frankly she should be able to sue the bollocks off them. Until the law is changed a 15ýo is still a child. I dont like what the silly girl did...but her treatment so far has been shamefull. What if she was your 15 yo white daughter lured into a Christian cult and made to do terrible thkngs ....would you say...take her citizenship away. Throw her to the wolfs. No you'd be fighting to get her back to your family . " Exactly this. If she has committed crimes, then yes she is/was of an age where she can be held accountable (that's where the Bulger case comes in). However, there may be mitigating circumstances, that's between her, her lawyer and the justice system. I do feel if she was white, or non-Muslim, she'd not have lost her citizenship. | |||
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"Some of you people scare me. No pity for children who died. If someone was white British and was taken into a cult and led into a horrific world, you’d be screaming for them to be brought home safely. We only have the words of the media. But at 15 children are still incredibly vulnerable to making horrible choices and easily groomed. the police didn’t protect a citizen of this country. When in a groomed relationship people’s personalities and behaviours are manipulated and what becomes normal and expected can deviate from what is acceptable in many ways. I thought it was ok for my first husband ( I was a teen) to sexually violate me in terrible ways and made excuses for him. Now I know differently but when I was in it, I truly couldn’t see that all he did to me was not ok. I am not saying this is definitely the case with her as none of us know, but it’s easy to see how children are led down wrong paths and what you’re surrounded by does become normal. Look at how everyone freaked out about the changes of lockdown, because your freedom is normal. What you’re used to becomes normal and you don’t bat an eye, ask any victim of long term abuse and they’ll say the same. Many groomed girls are led into prostitution where people then say “but if they were enslaved/abused etc why didn’t they leave?” Because they accept their fate and life as it is and see no other way. It’s easy to imagine when you marry someone in a violent terrorist group that leaving your marriage isn’t an easy option... anyway it’s for the court to decide. The country isn’t allowed to make someone stateless, therefore they have to answer for that, it’s the law. That may mean that she’s given citizenship but then tried for crimes and imprisoned. Our speculation won’t change the legal process. They can’t try things in the court of racism and the daily mail fortunately. -Mrs " Excellent post | |||
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"I'm in two minds over the whole situation. I've tried to consider this without emotion, looking only at the legality and I still can't make my mind up. One thing I am sure about, I hope some of you lot are not called up for jury service, you've either found her guilty or innocent already, without hearing a word of evidence either way. By all means have an opinion, just bare in mind its likely none of us will be sitting in the court, listening to the presented facts. All we think we know is what's presented by the main stream media. I've done jury service in the past. As for Begum the facts as seen are that she and friends went of their own free will to join the caliphate knowing what atrocities were going on over there, and initially upon being found in that POW camp showed no remorse, that has since changed due to being clearly told the right things to say to get sympathy from the media but most of us can see right through it. As a serving British soldier I know that woman would happily watch her friends hack my head off on camera and cheer them on, she's my enemy, and I don't see why we should have her back in this country. She went as a minor. As such she should have been brought back. " The Hitlerjugend SS divisions were some of the most brutal and fanatical units the allies came up against in Normandy 1944,they carried out many massacres and other war crimes and many of them were only 16. They weren't given much quarter at the time and I don't see why Begum or others like her should be either, she's a traitor to this country and complicit in crimes against humanity. | |||
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"So _ionelhutz, what's your view on this?" Comes back.faces trial and is punished according to the rule of law. Simple. | |||
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"Cageytigers says lots of things very well " All of what she said... Radicalisation, (much like domestic abuse or other forms of grooming) doesn't happen over night. She didn't watch one video and bam, western hating 15 year old... Like my ex didn't start hitting me from day one, it's not how it works, we don't actually know how long it took for her to be radicalised. It could have been years, she could have been 14, 13 or even 12 when the whole process started. The UK have broken the law, she needs to come back to the country of her birth and where she is (or should still be) a citizen. She then needs to be held accountable for her crimes BUT that needs to be in the context of the fact she was groomed as a child. | |||
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"I'm in two minds over the whole situation. I've tried to consider this without emotion, looking only at the legality and I still can't make my mind up. One thing I am sure about, I hope some of you lot are not called up for jury service, you've either found her guilty or innocent already, without hearing a word of evidence either way. By all means have an opinion, just bare in mind its likely none of us will be sitting in the court, listening to the presented facts. All we think we know is what's presented by the main stream media. I've done jury service in the past. As for Begum the facts as seen are that she and friends went of their own free will to join the caliphate knowing what atrocities were going on over there, and initially upon being found in that POW camp showed no remorse, that has since changed due to being clearly told the right things to say to get sympathy from the media but most of us can see right through it. As a serving British soldier I know that woman would happily watch her friends hack my head off on camera and cheer them on, she's my enemy, and I don't see why we should have her back in this country. She went as a minor. As such she should have been brought back. The Hitlerjugend SS divisions were some of the most brutal and fanatical units the allies came up against in Normandy 1944,they carried out many massacres and other war crimes and many of them were only 16. They weren't given much quarter at the time and I don't see why Begum or others like her should be either, she's a traitor to this country and complicit in crimes against humanity." Well for a start she didn't carry out many massacres. In fact is there any evidence she actually killed anyone? When you say complicit even if wanted too..shr couldn't actually stop isis doing anything. | |||
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"Heard this morning that there is another 150 cases exactly the same now returning to Britain, crazy stuff. " Yet 1 girl is getting more headlines than all the others combined. Have they all had their citizenship refused? | |||
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"So _ionelhutz, what's your view on this? Comes back.faces trial and is punished according to the rule of law. Simple." Well of course,those are the basic mechanics. Get her out. Put up in front of the beak. See what's decided? | |||
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"So _ionelhutz, what's your view on this? Comes back.faces trial and is punished according to the rule of law. Simple. Well of course,those are the basic mechanics. Get her out. Put up in front of the beak. See what's decided? " It's a simple as that. Presumably she will be charged with being a member of a terrorist organisation. | |||
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"Heard this morning that there is another 150 cases exactly the same now returning to Britain, crazy stuff. Yet 1 girl is getting more headlines than all the others combined. Have they all had their citizenship refused?" All refused entry but unsure of citizenship rights, they'll all now have to have entry granted because of this case. | |||
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"Heard this morning that there is another 150 cases exactly the same now returning to Britain, crazy stuff. Yet 1 girl is getting more headlines than all the others combined. Have they all had their citizenship refused? All refused entry but unsure of citizenship rights, they'll all now have to have entry granted because of this case." So surely her lawyers are going to say she was treated differently? | |||
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"To what country would you deport a British citizen? " A females prison and throw the key away | |||
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"Not bad just counted the posts 20% of posts in favour of her return. Oh that was just 2 people though. They definitely have an opinion. As someone posted ,previously I wonder why it can't be done by video from Syria to London. Her lawyers could go out to Syria so she had direct communication with them." You did a bad maths. D- try harder next time. | |||
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"As mentioned above she was part of a discipline squad which served the same purpose as the SS did in WW2. I wasn't aware ISIS had gas chambers" If you read the post it says they serve the same purpose. Both acted as a means to police and enforce. 2ndly yes I do feel bad for her kids - read the post - they are innocent. Unfortunately their mother made some stupid choices and they paid for it. | |||
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"As mentioned above she was part of a discipline squad which served the same purpose as the SS did in WW2. I wasn't aware ISIS had gas chambers If you read the post it says they serve the same purpose. Both acted as a means to police and enforce. 2ndly yes I do feel bad for her kids - read the post - they are innocent. Unfortunately their mother made some stupid choices and they paid for it." I think linking the actions of 14 year old girl with one of the most ruthless killing machines in history a bit spurious tbh. | |||
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"I think linking the actions of 14 year old girl with one of the most ruthless killing machines in history a bit spurious tbh." Your right, getting people killed in a gas chamber is worse that getting them killed by being thrown off the highest building in the land so everyone can see. I recognise that this is about whether she should be called a British citizen and most likely after that criminal and terrorise charges would have to be dealt with which is mostly going to be done as an adult since she is one now. | |||
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"Heard this morning that there is another 150 cases exactly the same now returning to Britain, crazy stuff. Yet 1 girl is getting more headlines than all the others combined. Have they all had their citizenship refused? All refused entry but unsure of citizenship rights, they'll all now have to have entry granted because of this case." I imagine that if they have lawyers, they'll advise waiting for outcome of this case as one taking precedence. | |||
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"I think linking the actions of 14 year old girl with one of the most ruthless killing machines in history a bit spurious tbh. Your right, getting people killed in a gas chamber is worse that getting them killed by being thrown off the highest building in the land so everyone can see. I recognise that this is about whether she should be called a British citizen and most likely after that criminal and terrorise charges would have to be dealt with which is mostly going to be done as an adult since she is one now." Would she be charged as an adult? Considering she committed the crime as a minor wouodnt she be charged accordingly? It's a tricky one. I think taking her citizenship away was daft though and only muddies the water further. | |||
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"Not bad just counted the posts 20% of posts in favour of her return. Oh that was just 2 people though. They definitely have an opinion. As someone posted ,previously I wonder why it can't be done by video from Syria to London. Her lawyers could go out to Syria so she had direct communication with them." There are more than 2 people with that opinion. But to be clear thinking she should be allowed to return is in no way supporting her actions | |||
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"Not bad just counted the posts 20% of posts in favour of her return. Oh that was just 2 people though. They definitely have an opinion. As someone posted ,previously I wonder why it can't be done by video from Syria to London. Her lawyers could go out to Syria so she had direct communication with them. You did a bad maths. D- try harder next time. " By the time I had posted the number had gone up by 3 posts by one of the shouters and no doubt more by now. | |||
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"Heard this morning that there is another 150 cases exactly the same now returning to Britain, crazy stuff. Yet 1 girl is getting more headlines than all the others combined. Have they all had their citizenship refused? All refused entry but unsure of citizenship rights, they'll all now have to have entry granted because of this case." Turn that on it’s head regarding setting legal precedent........ if a British citizen commits a crime here, as an example murder, once they’ve served their time should they then be stripped of their citizenship of birth and deported from the country ? | |||
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"Heard this morning that there is another 150 cases exactly the same now returning to Britain, crazy stuff. Yet 1 girl is getting more headlines than all the others combined. Have they all had their citizenship refused? All refused entry but unsure of citizenship rights, they'll all now have to have entry granted because of this case. Turn that on it’s head regarding setting legal precedent........ if a British citizen commits a crime here, as an example murder, once they’ve served their time should they then be stripped of their citizenship of birth and deported from the country ? " Where too? | |||
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" Would she be charged as an adult? Considering she committed the crime as a minor wouodnt she be charged accordingly? It's a tricky one. I think taking her citizenship away was daft though and only muddies the water further." I agree, the decision about the citizenship was made as a snap decision with no thought, and its led to this. At this point I think she would be looked at as an adult. They might make a case for her being a minor but then being a minor changes with the laws of the country you live in. Total mess. | |||
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"And I'm sorry but when I was 15 I was pretty sure that beheading innocent people was just a little bit wrong " Well done you! Perhaps your parents played a positive role in your life, you were well educated, and had good societal role models. Like all children should have. She didn't. She was brainwashed as a child. (Similar to grooming) and mentally screwed up at a young age. Essentially she went off to be a child bride (grooming again, sex trafficking) while clearly not being of sound mind. She was failed. By her family, by social service, by police... by the UK. If agencies were involved in her life, and if they were negligent, then she may very well have a case to sue for damages. As she was born in the UK she is a British citizen by default. According to the Bangladesh government she has no claim to citizenship. The UK government cannot make her stateless. Bring her home. Investigate her. Gather the evidence. If there is a case to be prosecuted, do so, giving her the full benefits of a fair trial. Remove the emotion. Follow the evidence. | |||
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" Would she be charged as an adult? Considering she committed the crime as a minor wouodnt she be charged accordingly? It's a tricky one. I think taking her citizenship away was daft though and only muddies the water further. I agree, the decision about the citizenship was made as a snap decision with no thought, and its led to this. At this point I think she would be looked at as an adult. They might make a case for her being a minor but then being a minor changes with the laws of the country you live in. Total mess." It is. | |||
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"And I'm sorry but when I was 15 I was pretty sure that beheading innocent people was just a little bit wrong Well done you! Perhaps your parents played a positive role in your life, you were well educated, and had good societal role models. Like all children should have. She didn't. She was brainwashed as a child. (Similar to grooming) and mentally screwed up at a young age. Essentially she went off to be a child bride (grooming again, sex trafficking) while clearly not being of sound mind. She was failed. By her family, by social service, by police... by the UK. If agencies were involved in her life, and if they were negligent, then she may very well have a case to sue for damages. As she was born in the UK she is a British citizen by default. According to the Bangladesh government she has no claim to citizenship. The UK government cannot make her stateless. Bring her home. Investigate her. Gather the evidence. If there is a case to be prosecuted, do so, giving her the full benefits of a fair trial. Remove the emotion. Follow the evidence." Agree with most of that..her family needs to take some responsibility too. Not sure what the police could have done though.. they have been stripped to the bone. | |||
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"Heard this morning that there is another 150 cases exactly the same now returning to Britain, crazy stuff. Yet 1 girl is getting more headlines than all the others combined. Have they all had their citizenship refused? All refused entry but unsure of citizenship rights, they'll all now have to have entry granted because of this case. Turn that on it’s head regarding setting legal precedent........ if a British citizen commits a crime here, as an example murder, once they’ve served their time should they then be stripped of their citizenship of birth and deported from the country ? Where too?" Exactly my point there is no where to deport someone to because this is their country of birth. Therefore, whether individuals like it or not this is where they should be. Just as those that have committed a crime abroad, they serve their time in the country they committed the crime in and then are deported back to the UK. Their crime can be / are heinous but we have to take them back | |||
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"Heard this morning that there is another 150 cases exactly the same now returning to Britain, crazy stuff. Yet 1 girl is getting more headlines than all the others combined. Have they all had their citizenship refused? All refused entry but unsure of citizenship rights, they'll all now have to have entry granted because of this case. Turn that on it’s head regarding setting legal precedent........ if a British citizen commits a crime here, as an example murder, once they’ve served their time should they then be stripped of their citizenship of birth and deported from the country ? Where too? Exactly my point there is no where to deport someone to because this is their country of birth. Therefore, whether individuals like it or not this is where they should be. Just as those that have committed a crime abroad, they serve their time in the country they committed the crime in and then are deported back to the UK. Their crime can be / are heinous but we have to take them back " I agree but in his wisdom the home secretary decided to pander to the daily mail and take away her citizenship,thus making a difficult situation even worse. Her lawyers can now argue it was our responsibility that she lost the baby. | |||
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"Strange counrty we live in! The left want the voting age lowering to 16 and tell us children are far more advanced nower days are more informed and grow up quicker. But then they will flip the coin and say she's a child until she is 18 and does'nt know what she is doing. Then they will tell us we should be listening to darling Greta. Yes some people want it both ways and they usually get it. "What is this 'left'that you are constantly referring too? Is it a club that you join? And why do you seem intent on blaming this whole issue on 'the left ' It's a legal issue.not a political one. You seem to have a knack of comparing completely different situations. Where does Greta fit in exactly? | |||
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"Shes not chosen to appeal Bangladesh's decision to deny her entry their, so what gives her the right to choose the UK. We don't owe her anything. Of course we do. We owe her the same as any British citizen. " No, she lost that privilege when she disowened the uk and decided she wanted our countries and way of life burned to the ground. Cant just pick and choose when you want to be a british citizen just because it suits | |||
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"Heard this morning that there is another 150 cases exactly the same now returning to Britain, crazy stuff. Yet 1 girl is getting more headlines than all the others combined. Have they all had their citizenship refused? All refused entry but unsure of citizenship rights, they'll all now have to have entry granted because of this case. Turn that on it’s head regarding setting legal precedent........ if a British citizen commits a crime here, as an example murder, once they’ve served their time should they then be stripped of their citizenship of birth and deported from the country ? Where too? Exactly my point there is no where to deport someone to because this is their country of birth. Therefore, whether individuals like it or not this is where they should be. Just as those that have committed a crime abroad, they serve their time in the country they committed the crime in and then are deported back to the UK. Their crime can be / are heinous but we have to take them back I agree but in his wisdom the home secretary decided to pander to the daily mail and take away her citizenship,thus making a difficult situation even worse. Her lawyers can now argue it was our responsibility that she lost the baby." That I have no comment on, the simple matter is he shouldn’t have stripped citizenship away but had her return and dealt with under the law for the crime she has deemed to have committed People don’t like it but that’s the law | |||
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"Heard this morning that there is another 150 cases exactly the same now returning to Britain, crazy stuff. Yet 1 girl is getting more headlines than all the others combined. Have they all had their citizenship refused? All refused entry but unsure of citizenship rights, they'll all now have to have entry granted because of this case. Turn that on it’s head regarding setting legal precedent........ if a British citizen commits a crime here, as an example murder, once they’ve served their time should they then be stripped of their citizenship of birth and deported from the country ? Where too? Exactly my point there is no where to deport someone to because this is their country of birth. Therefore, whether individuals like it or not this is where they should be. Just as those that have committed a crime abroad, they serve their time in the country they committed the crime in and then are deported back to the UK. Their crime can be / are heinous but we have to take them back I agree but in his wisdom the home secretary decided to pander to the daily mail and take away her citizenship,thus making a difficult situation even worse. Her lawyers can now argue it was our responsibility that she lost the baby. That I have no comment on, the simple matter is he shouldn’t have stripped citizenship away but had her return and dealt with under the law for the crime she has deemed to have committed People don’t like it but that’s the law " I agree. | |||
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"Some of you people scare me. No pity for children who died. If someone was white British and was taken into a cult and led into a horrific world, you’d be screaming for them to be brought home safely. We only have the words of the media. But at 15 children are still incredibly vulnerable to making horrible choices and easily groomed. the police didn’t protect a citizen of this country. When in a groomed relationship people’s personalities and behaviours are manipulated and what becomes normal and expected can deviate from what is acceptable in many ways. I thought it was ok for my first husband ( I was a teen) to sexually violate me in terrible ways and made excuses for him. Now I know differently but when I was in it, I truly couldn’t see that all he did to me was not ok. I am not saying this is definitely the case with her as none of us know, but it’s easy to see how children are led down wrong paths and what you’re surrounded by does become normal. Look at how everyone freaked out about the changes of lockdown, because your freedom is normal. What you’re used to becomes normal and you don’t bat an eye, ask any victim of long term abuse and they’ll say the same. Many groomed girls are led into prostitution where people then say “but if they were enslaved/abused etc why didn’t they leave?” Because they accept their fate and life as it is and see no other way. It’s easy to imagine when you marry someone in a violent terrorist group that leaving your marriage isn’t an easy option... anyway it’s for the court to decide. The country isn’t allowed to make someone stateless, therefore they have to answer for that, it’s the law. That may mean that she’s given citizenship but then tried for crimes and imprisoned. Our speculation won’t change the legal process. They can’t try things in the court of racism and the daily mail fortunately. -Mrs " Nicely put. | |||
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"Shes not chosen to appeal Bangladesh's decision to deny her entry their, so what gives her the right to choose the UK. We don't owe her anything. Of course we do. We owe her the same as any British citizen. No, she lost that privilege when she disowened the uk and decided she wanted our countries and way of life burned to the ground. Cant just pick and choose when you want to be a british citizen just because it suits " So where does she go exactly,? | |||
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"So where does she go exactly,?" The far right love shouting "Send them home"... well guys, here she comes! | |||
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"Strange counrty we live in! The left want the voting age lowering to 16 and tell us children are far more advanced nower days are more informed and grow up quicker. But then they will flip the coin and say she's a child until she is 18 and does'nt know what she is doing. Then they will tell us we should be listening to darling Greta. Yes some people want it both ways and they usually get it. "As opposed to dismissing Greta for being a child but treating Begum as an adult? | |||
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"A genuinely don't understand why people are so against her coming back and facing justice. Baffles me " Playing devils advocate - I don't think people see a few years spent in a British prison is justice | |||
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"A genuinely don't understand why people are so against her coming back and facing justice. Baffles me Playing devils advocate - I don't think people see a few years spent in a British prison is justice " We could say that for a lot of crimes committed in this country. The system is flawed but it’s the law and set times to serve. That is what needs shaking up not messing with citizenship rights given by birth | |||
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"A genuinely don't understand why people are so against her coming back and facing justice. Baffles me " .............I'm sure most of would want her to come back and face justice but the reality is no real evidence will be found because it happened in another counrty, any so called witness will be judged as unreliable and she and whoever will be defending her will already be banking on that. I will come back to you're other points later, Just going shopping now. Will cross sword with you when I get back. | |||
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"A genuinely don't understand why people are so against her coming back and facing justice. Baffles me Playing devils advocate - I don't think people see a few years spent in a British prison is justice We could say that for a lot of crimes committed in this country. The system is flawed but it’s the law and set times to serve. That is what needs shaking up not messing with citizenship rights given by birth " I don't disagree with you but I also understand why people feel strongly about this. An important part of the law is that justice is SEEN to be done and people do not think that a few years in prison is justice | |||
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"Playing devils advocate - I don't think people see a few years spent in a British prison is justice " Given how many have been unable to sit on there own sofa for two fucking weeks while being paid by the government, I think that view might now be outdated. | |||
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"A genuinely don't understand why people are so against her coming back and facing justice. Baffles me Playing devils advocate - I don't think people see a few years spent in a British prison is justice " Wouldnt it be better to see what type of sentence she gets 1st. And she hasn't killed anyone.. | |||
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"A genuinely don't understand why people are so against her coming back and facing justice. Baffles me .............I'm sure most of would want her to come back and face justice but the reality is no real evidence will be found because it happened in another counrty, any so called witness will be judged as unreliable and she and whoever will be defending her will already be banking on that. I will come back to you're other points later, Just going shopping now. Will cross sword with you when I get back. "The evidence of her leaving the country and joining a terrorist organisation is clear and indisputable, that a alone will see a lengthy custodial. She can't actually be tried for offenses committed in another country the law doesn't allow for that so the lack of evidence is a moot point at best | |||
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"A genuinely don't understand why people are so against her coming back and facing justice. Baffles me .............I'm sure most of would want her to come back and face justice but the reality is no real evidence will be found because it happened in another counrty, any so called witness will be judged as unreliable and she and whoever will be defending her will already be banking on that. I will come back to you're other points later, Just going shopping now. Will cross sword with you when I get back. "She has admitted to being in ISIS..I can't see her being found innocent tbh. | |||
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"A genuinely don't understand why people are so against her coming back and facing justice. Baffles me Playing devils advocate - I don't think people see a few years spent in a British prison is justice We could say that for a lot of crimes committed in this country. The system is flawed but it’s the law and set times to serve. That is what needs shaking up not messing with citizenship rights given by birth I don't disagree with you but I also understand why people feel strongly about this. An important part of the law is that justice is SEEN to be done and people do not think that a few years in prison is justice " So what is justice? There are much,much worse crimes being committed out there. | |||
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"I'm sure most of would want her to come back and face justice but the reality is no real evidence will be found because it happened in another counrty, any so called witness will be judged as unreliable and she and whoever will be defending her will already be banking on that." I noticed that the former head of MI5, aka the security and intelligence service, feel it is a lot safer for the UK if she is brough home. Don't know about you, but I'm more inclined to trust the opinion of that person rather than a tabloid journalist chasing readers, or a mob mentality on a forum. | |||
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"I'm sure most of would want her to come back and face justice but the reality is no real evidence will be found because it happened in another counrty, any so called witness will be judged as unreliable and she and whoever will be defending her will already be banking on that. I noticed that the former head of MI5, aka the security and intelligence service, feel it is a lot safer for the UK if she is brough home. Don't know about you, but I'm more inclined to trust the opinion of that person rather than a tabloid journalist chasing readers, or a mob mentality on a forum." You would think so wouodnt you? | |||
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"A genuinely don't understand why people are so against her coming back and facing justice. Baffles me Playing devils advocate - I don't think people see a few years spent in a British prison is justice We could say that for a lot of crimes committed in this country. The system is flawed but it’s the law and set times to serve. That is what needs shaking up not messing with citizenship rights given by birth I don't disagree with you but I also understand why people feel strongly about this. An important part of the law is that justice is SEEN to be done and people do not think that a few years in prison is justice " Justice for joining a terrorist group, as that is all we are likely to charge her with. She hasn’t committed any other crimes under our jurisdiction. | |||
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"What are the odds on her not spending any time behind bars! I would say pretty high!" She has admitted being part of a terrorist organisation. | |||
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"A genuinely don't understand why people are so against her coming back and facing justice. Baffles me Playing devils advocate - I don't think people see a few years spent in a British prison is justice We could say that for a lot of crimes committed in this country. The system is flawed but it’s the law and set times to serve. That is what needs shaking up not messing with citizenship rights given by birth I don't disagree with you but I also understand why people feel strongly about this. An important part of the law is that justice is SEEN to be done and people do not think that a few years in prison is justice Justice for joining a terrorist group, as that is all we are likely to charge her with. She hasn’t committed any other crimes under our jurisdiction. " Like I say I'm just stating why people are arguing against her return. I happen to think she will be allowed to face UK justice but the people arguing against that wont see the outcome as justice | |||
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"A genuinely don't understand why people are so against her coming back and facing justice. Baffles me Playing devils advocate - I don't think people see a few years spent in a British prison is justice We could say that for a lot of crimes committed in this country. The system is flawed but it’s the law and set times to serve. That is what needs shaking up not messing with citizenship rights given by birth I don't disagree with you but I also understand why people feel strongly about this. An important part of the law is that justice is SEEN to be done and people do not think that a few years in prison is justice Justice for joining a terrorist group, as that is all we are likely to charge her with. She hasn’t committed any other crimes under our jurisdiction. Like I say I'm just stating why people are arguing against her return. I happen to think she will be allowed to face UK justice but the people arguing against that wont see the outcome as justice " I dont think some people even know what they see as justice. They just want to see sensational headlines and stories of misery to appease their lost for mob justice mentality. | |||
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"A genuinely don't understand why people are so against her coming back and facing justice. Baffles me Playing devils advocate - I don't think people see a few years spent in a British prison is justice We could say that for a lot of crimes committed in this country. The system is flawed but it’s the law and set times to serve. That is what needs shaking up not messing with citizenship rights given by birth I don't disagree with you but I also understand why people feel strongly about this. An important part of the law is that justice is SEEN to be done and people do not think that a few years in prison is justice Justice for joining a terrorist group, as that is all we are likely to charge her with. She hasn’t committed any other crimes under our jurisdiction. Like I say I'm just stating why people are arguing against her return. I happen to think she will be allowed to face UK justice but the people arguing against that wont see the outcome as justice " I think this thread is the perfect example of why we have a judicial system and not mob justice. | |||
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"A genuinely don't understand why people are so against her coming back and facing justice. Baffles me Playing devils advocate - I don't think people see a few years spent in a British prison is justice We could say that for a lot of crimes committed in this country. The system is flawed but it’s the law and set times to serve. That is what needs shaking up not messing with citizenship rights given by birth I don't disagree with you but I also understand why people feel strongly about this. An important part of the law is that justice is SEEN to be done and people do not think that a few years in prison is justice Justice for joining a terrorist group, as that is all we are likely to charge her with. She hasn’t committed any other crimes under our jurisdiction. Like I say I'm just stating why people are arguing against her return. I happen to think she will be allowed to face UK justice but the people arguing against that wont see the outcome as justice I dont think some people even know what they see as justice. They just want to see sensational headlines and stories of misery to appease their lost for mob justice mentality." | |||
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"A genuinely don't understand why people are so against her coming back and facing justice. Baffles me Playing devils advocate - I don't think people see a few years spent in a British prison is justice We could say that for a lot of crimes committed in this country. The system is flawed but it’s the law and set times to serve. That is what needs shaking up not messing with citizenship rights given by birth I don't disagree with you but I also understand why people feel strongly about this. An important part of the law is that justice is SEEN to be done and people do not think that a few years in prison is justice Justice for joining a terrorist group, as that is all we are likely to charge her with. She hasn’t committed any other crimes under our jurisdiction. Like I say I'm just stating why people are arguing against her return. I happen to think she will be allowed to face UK justice but the people arguing against that wont see the outcome as justice " Unfortunately they won’t especially going by the comments on this thread and a previous one | |||
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"A genuinely don't understand why people are so against her coming back and facing justice. Baffles me Playing devils advocate - I don't think people see a few years spent in a British prison is justice We could say that for a lot of crimes committed in this country. The system is flawed but it’s the law and set times to serve. That is what needs shaking up not messing with citizenship rights given by birth I don't disagree with you but I also understand why people feel strongly about this. An important part of the law is that justice is SEEN to be done and people do not think that a few years in prison is justice Justice for joining a terrorist group, as that is all we are likely to charge her with. She hasn’t committed any other crimes under our jurisdiction. Like I say I'm just stating why people are arguing against her return. I happen to think she will be allowed to face UK justice but the people arguing against that wont see the outcome as justice I think this thread is the perfect example of why we have a judicial system and not mob justice." Of course. Mob rule is not acceptable. Although apparently sometimes it is given current events | |||
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"The world is full of UK citizens committing serious sexual assaults overseas... wouldn’t you want them to face justice here or rather leave them where they are? " If they are caught doing it in the country it is committed, then they are tried there under their laws. Once served they are deported and returned here or some get to serve some of their sentence back in this country | |||
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"On another issue, does anyone know where the law stands regarding facing the justice system in the country where the crime was committed?" You mean, in this example, she is returned to Syria ? | |||
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"On another issue, does anyone know where the law stands regarding facing the justice system in the country where the crime was committed?" If I remember correctly, the uk usually does not allow extradition to a jurisdiction where the suspect will face the death penalty for the crime in question. | |||
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"On another issue, does anyone know where the law stands regarding facing the justice system in the country where the crime was committed?" What's the crime? So far under UK law, the only crime she has committed is being a member of a terrorist organisation, or assisting a terrorist organisation. I am led to believe she is not a free person at the moment, and is being deported from what ever country she is in. However, under UK law she cannot be extradited to any country where she may face the death penalty. | |||
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"On another issue, does anyone know where the law stands regarding facing the justice system in the country where the crime was committed? You mean, in this example, she is returned to Syria ? " In any example really. So if a UK citizen commited a crime in another country do they have to face the criminal justice system there? Or do they get to come here knowing that we will be more lenient than the country where the crime was committed? | |||
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"On another issue, does anyone know where the law stands regarding facing the justice system in the country where the crime was committed? If I remember correctly, the uk usually does not allow extradition to a jurisdiction where the suspect will face the death penalty for the crime in question. " That's what I thought. I think it took 7 years to extradite Abu Hamza to Jordan | |||
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"Why don't she go live with her father in Bangladesh ? " Does the rest of her family live here? | |||
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"Didn't she marry a Dutch national,isn't she a Dutch citizen now by law? Can't she appeal at the Hague, it is a court of international law, just a thought" She would be legally entitled to dutch citizenship but she'd have to apply, it's not automatic. | |||
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"Didn't she marry a Dutch national,isn't she a Dutch citizen now by law? Can't she appeal at the Hague, it is a court of international law, just a thought" Not all countries grant citizenship on marriage to a national. It might give you right of entry, but often even that's not the case. | |||
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"On another issue, does anyone know where the law stands regarding facing the justice system in the country where the crime was committed? You mean, in this example, she is returned to Syria ? In any example really. So if a UK citizen commited a crime in another country do they have to face the criminal justice system there? Or do they get to come here knowing that we will be more lenient than the country where the crime was committed?" The extradition system is a very detailed process. There are various treaties with other countries over extradition and for what crimes a request can be put in for. Likewise there are also various elements around evidence, possible treatment, death penalty, human rights etc that affect the decision. If a request is received from another country for a person residing in this country, it is a uk judge that determines whether that person can be extradited to face trial in another country, based on various evidence and factors. If you go to the CPS website and look up extradition you will see all of the various steps, some would say obstacles | |||
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"Didn't she marry a Dutch national,isn't she a Dutch citizen now by law? Can't she appeal at the Hague, it is a court of international law, just a thought Not all countries grant citizenship on marriage to a national. It might give you right of entry, but often even that's not the case." Apparently its not recognised as marriage as she was under age at the time | |||
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"The world is full of UK citizens committing serious sexual assaults overseas... wouldn’t you want them to face justice here or rather leave them where they are? If they are caught doing it in the country it is committed, then they are tried there under their laws. Once served they are deported and returned here or some get to serve some of their sentence back in this country " Any UK national can face trial in this country for serious offences committed overseas as long as it is an offence in that country. | |||
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"Great just let her back in just another suicide bomb waiting to happen "Can you take bombs into prison? | |||
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