FabSwingers.com forum: Shamima Begum

By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

Shamima Begum should be allowed to return to the UK to fight the decision to remove her British citizenship, the Court of Appeal has ruled.

The Isis supporter will be allowed legal aid in her quest for reinstatement of her citizenship.

British Justice or a waste of time and money?

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By *acey_RedWoman
over a year ago

Liverpool

She's British, why do we get to palm it off onto another country to deal with? I'd hate to see the throthing at the mouth if the shoe was on the other foot and someome came here from another country and committed terrorism and their country stripped them of their citizenship and wanted to leave them with us.

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By *wisted999Man
over a year ago

North Bucks

She’s going to get arrested when she comes back anyway unless the Government win the appeal.

She’s certainly been through it. Perhaps it’s time to let her back and face the consequences of her actions.

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By *hrisUB3Man
over a year ago

Heathrow

If she is allowed back, she should spend the rest of her life in prison!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Considering her background I think we can happily live in peace without her in our midst

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

A waste of time and money and breathable air.

Bless her hate filled socks.

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By *urulovesnylonMan
over a year ago

Harrow

Personally I believe she shouldn’t be allowed back however once she is back she should be under no illusion it’s life inside without any appeal and preferably in solitary too so she doesn’t brainwash anyone else with her evil ways. (I say this as a practicing Muslim)

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

The sad state of the legal system. No doubt it will cost thousands to go to court even more if she ends up going to prison and more if she doesn't and we have to pay for security and protection.

That money could be better spent on helping the vulnerable or homeless in this country who haven't incited terrorism and murder.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

What a waste of money, leave her there it was her choice to leavea safe country, let her rot overseas

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By *rHotNottsMan
over a year ago

Dubai & Nottingham

We have one of the best legal systems in the world, let them do their job. It’s a high price but it’s worth it, no one is above the law, not even politicians or pms.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"We have one of the best legal systems in the world, let them do their job. It’s a high price but it’s worth it, no one is above the law, not even politicians or pms."

I don’t think she has been convicted of anything yet?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"She's British, why do we get to palm it off onto another country to deal with? I'd hate to see the throthing at the mouth if the shoe was on the other foot and someome came here from another country and committed terrorism and their country stripped them of their citizenship and wanted to leave them with us. "

But that's what does happen.weve got all sorts in our prisons.

Not long released the Lockerbie bomber

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"The sad state of the legal system. No doubt it will cost thousands to go to court even more if she ends up going to prison and more if she doesn't and we have to pay for security and protection.

That money could be better spent on helping the vulnerable or homeless in this country who haven't incited terrorism and murder."

By that judgement, just do away with the legal system entirely, the police and offender management, etc and save a fortune... except we wouldn't.

A decent judicial system is just one facet of a civilised society. The British justice system isn't perfect, but despite its flaws it is amongst the very best in the world, and we should all be grateful for and protective of that.

While the individual concerned is no saint, it is important that the legal process is followed properly and fairly. Let us not forget, she had British citizenship, and while she left the country of her own free will, she left as a child.

As for her citizenship, human rights dictates that everybody has one somewhere, and hers is British. It is not justifiable for a country to try and disown a citizen and had the problem to another nation. They should handle the issue themselves.

The general population cannot and should not act as judge jury and executioner. If we go down that road, we loose a piece of our civilisation.

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By *aitonelMan
over a year ago

Travelling

"A waste of time and money and breathable air.

Bless her hate filled socks.

While I'm certainly not defending her in any way, that is kind of hypocritical and ironic.

There is no right or wrong answer to be honest. Ethics and morales are certainly challenged when it comes to these situations.

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By *heLaserGuyMan
over a year ago

Coventry

She left to pursue a terrorist lifestyle, haven't we got enough problems here already without bringing a more than potential threat into the country.

I'd rather see her bubble in a vat of acid than have her back here

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"We have one of the best legal systems in the world, let them do their job. It’s a high price but it’s worth it, no one is above the law, not even politicians or pms.

I don’t think she has been convicted of anything yet?"

I’m sure that having sex with a Dutch man must be some sort of crime!!!!

Only joking Dutch men only joking.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"We have one of the best legal systems in the world, let them do their job. It’s a high price but it’s worth it, no one is above the law, not even politicians or pms.

I don’t think she has been convicted of anything yet?

I’m sure that having sex with a Dutch man must be some sort of crime!!!!

Only joking Dutch men only joking.

And he was ginger......

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"The sad state of the legal system. No doubt it will cost thousands to go to court even more if she ends up going to prison and more if she doesn't and we have to pay for security and protection.

That money could be better spent on helping the vulnerable or homeless in this country who haven't incited terrorism and murder.

By that judgement, just do away with the legal system entirely, the police and offender management, etc and save a fortune... except we wouldn't.

The general population cannot and should not act as judge jury and executioner. If we go down that road, we loose a piece of our civilisation."

True but it needs to be made clear leaving the UK to join a terrorist outfit that kills people who don't agree with them isn't acceptable and will revoke your citizenship.

Examples need to be made to dissuade others. Laws are made by the people for the good of the majority we don't need a court to sit down and make a decision the facts are there for all to see. Do you really think that money wouldn't be better spent on the homeless?

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By *arlomaleMan
over a year ago

darlington

No let her rot and stagnate In the shit hole she decided to leave the comforts of a civilised country for

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"But that's what does happen.weve got all sorts in our prisons.

Not long released the Lockerbie bomber "

Leaving aside the fact that guilt of the individual concerned is debatable, the actual downing of Flight 103 took place in British airspace, therefore the offence is covered under British jurisdiction. As a result, the offender was held in a British prison.

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By *rHotNottsMan
over a year ago

Dubai & Nottingham

"We have one of the best legal systems in the world, let them do their job. It’s a high price but it’s worth it, no one is above the law, not even politicians or pms.

I don’t think she has been convicted of anything yet?"

I meant let them decide if she can legally return, however vile and evil she may be, it’s not justification to unlawfully deny her citizenship. If it’s legal fine, she can stay and rot where she is , I won’t lose sleep either way !

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Weren't her former comrades trying to kill her for wanting to come home? Or was that just a plot to try get brought back because she's in danger?

Or are they really shite as they can't kill one little girl?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Well said. X

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Every human should have the right to proper and decent justice - not all do though. I have the feeling that if she does return to the UK, she will never leave no matter what the courts decide.

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By *iamondCougarWoman
over a year ago

Norfuck! / Lincolnshire

I’m sure she has seen things most of us couldn’t even imagine

but..... there are consequences for what she did that must be answered to

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"No let her rot and stagnate In the shit hole she decided to leave the comforts of a civilised country for "

Totally agree

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By *hrisUB3Man
over a year ago

Heathrow

These vile scumbags are full of bravado until they get caught, they then cry for their mummies and want forgiveness!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Once she is here she will stay here, anyone with a brain can see what will happen.

Too many bleeding Harts

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

True but it needs to be made clear leaving the UK to join a terrorist outfit that kills people who don't agree with them isn't acceptable and will revoke your citizenship."

Lots of people have left this country to commit crime overseas, including murder. While a sentence can be pronounced, revoking their citizenship shouldn't be an option.

Laws are made by the people for the good of the majority we don't need a court to sit down and make a decision the facts are there for all to see.

Laws are made by parliament, and are scrutinised and interpreted by courts. Democracy is about majorities, but law is often required to protect minorities.

Actually, we do need a court to make a decision, because we the people do not have all the facts or full understanding of the legal statutes involved.

Everybody has human rights. By preserving the human rights of all, we stand above those who would choose to deny those rights to others.

Do you really think that money wouldn't be better spent on the homeless?

Nobody is not saying homeless people do not need more done for them. The costs involved in this case are separate to that.

Our legal rights, freedoms and protection cost us. Dismissing somebodies legal rights purely on a cost basis is wrong. But it happens. For example, a huge amount of reported crimes do not get to court because the police don't have the budget and resources to investigate, the CPS doesn't have the cost to prosecute, and the court system is buckling under the weight on a decade of cutbacks to the point where it is struggling to function.

So in effect, we need lots more money spent on our legal rights, protections and freedoms.

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By *ouple in LancashireCouple
over a year ago

in Lancashire

"The sad state of the legal system. No doubt it will cost thousands to go to court even more if she ends up going to prison and more if she doesn't and we have to pay for security and protection.

That money could be better spent on helping the vulnerable or homeless in this country who haven't incited terrorism and murder.

By that judgement, just do away with the legal system entirely, the police and offender management, etc and save a fortune... except we wouldn't.

The general population cannot and should not act as judge jury and executioner. If we go down that road, we loose a piece of our civilisation."

Agreed..

There will be outrage in the media and from many MPs on this but we should all be wary of any dilution of the system we have, whether that's when judges intercede against the popular opinion as with Brexit and the cry is to reduce their power..

Or when home secretarys and others want to change how the system is for political reasons..

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By *imon_hydeMan
over a year ago

Stockport

She's British nothing can change that, if she's broken a law she can be prosecuted. But she's entitled to come back.

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By *agneto.Man
over a year ago

Bham

I get what you're saying about if a foreign national was here, but is she actually still British? She left to join and become a citizen of the Islamic State.

Now that de facto country no longer exists, she wants to claim her British national status back. Which is a bit like having her cake and eating it.

It's a difficult one, especially considering the age she left but as long as she stands trial on her return then I see no problem.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

" I get what you're saying about if a foreign national was here, but is she actually still British? She left to join and become a citizen of the Islamic State.

Now that de facto country no longer exists, she wants to claim her British national status back. Which is a bit like having her cake and eating it. "

Islamic State was never recognised as a state. It did not have the rights to bestow citizenship on others. So, while she left to join of her own free will did she at any point renounce her citizenship?

There is another argument about her child status. As she was underage she wouldn't have had the right to take such an action, even if it were a legally available option.

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By *ohn KanakaMan
over a year ago

Not all that North of North London

She was a child. She is a british citizen.

It's completely the right thing to do

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By *pursChick aka ShortieWoman
over a year ago

On a mooch

We might not always agree with decisions, however the law is the law and due process has to be followed, if it isn’t where does that leave us.

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By *LAchillesMan
over a year ago

Aylesbury

"The sad state of the legal system. No doubt it will cost thousands to go to court even more if she ends up going to prison and more if she doesn't and we have to pay for security and protection.

That money could be better spent on helping the vulnerable or homeless in this country who haven't incited terrorism and murder.

By that judgement, just do away with the legal system entirely, the police and offender management, etc and save a fortune... except we wouldn't.

The general population cannot and should not act as judge jury and executioner. If we go down that road, we loose a piece of our civilisation."

Well said.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"We might not always agree with decisions, however the law is the law and due process has to be followed, if it isn’t where does that leave us. "

Anarchy?

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By *orflondonerMan
over a year ago

Wood Green

Weird one with me this.

Whilst I am uncomfortable with removing someone who was born here's citizenship,I also wouldn't lose a wink of sleep if she never set foot in the UK again.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

She was 15 years old when she left.

Three dead children.

Hated by her Country of Origin.

Stand trial or answer for what ...

.... for being a silly lil' girl ... ?

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By *ionelhutzMan
over a year ago

liverpool

"She’s going to get arrested when she comes back anyway unless the Government win the appeal.

She’s certainly been through it. Perhaps it’s time to let her back and face the consequences of her actions. "

Agreed.

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By *ionelhutzMan
over a year ago

liverpool

"The sad state of the legal system. No doubt it will cost thousands to go to court even more if she ends up going to prison and more if she doesn't and we have to pay for security and protection.

That money could be better spent on helping the vulnerable or homeless in this country who haven't incited terrorism and murder."

But that wouldnt happen anyway.

Its not an either or situation

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By *ionelhutzMan
over a year ago

liverpool

"She left to pursue a terrorist lifestyle, haven't we got enough problems here already without bringing a more than potential threat into the country.

I'd rather see her bubble in a vat of acid than have her back here "

Civilised response.

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By *agneto.Man
over a year ago

Bham

" I get what you're saying about if a foreign national was here, but is she actually still British? She left to join and become a citizen of the Islamic State.

Now that de facto country no longer exists, she wants to claim her British national status back. Which is a bit like having her cake and eating it.

There is another argument about her child status. As she was underage she wouldn't have had the right to take such an action, even if it were a legally available option."

That's why I said de facto. They weren't recognised as a state but they certainly considered themselves one.

But that's the catch 22 as to argue that she renounced her citizenship you then have to accept the Islamic state as a nation, which they won't do. So I assume she'll win her citizenship case. She probably didn't fight for Isis and there would be evidence so can't be tried as a foreign fighter so she probably lightly.

Which doesn't quite sit right with me. I also mentioned her age in the last bit you cut off.

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By *pursChick aka ShortieWoman
over a year ago

On a mooch

"We might not always agree with decisions, however the law is the law and due process has to be followed, if it isn’t where does that leave us.

Anarchy? "

Which I doubt anyone would want, I for one wouldn’t

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

She’s an immigration lawyer’s dream.

A long, drawn out case, appeal after appeal, legality after legality, and more than likely to win her grubby little case on the grounds of Human Rights, in fear for her life..blah blah blah.

I know this al to be more or less correct because I spent just short of 10yrs at an immigration prison/detention centre.

The law is an ass.

Leave her to rot in the sand pit..!!!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"She left to pursue a terrorist lifestyle, haven't we got enough problems here already without bringing a more than potential threat into the country.

I'd rather see her bubble in a vat of acid than have her back here "

Disgusting.

She was a child groomed by a terrorist organisation. She should face the consequences of her actions here, as a British citizen, in a court.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"We might not always agree with decisions, however the law is the law and due process has to be followed, if it isn’t where does that leave us.

Anarchy?

Which I doubt anyone would want, I for one wouldn’t "

No, I think that her right to citizenship goes to the heart of the question. I think it was easier for the government to withdraw her passport rhan deal with the issues the situation presents.

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By *aitonelMan
over a year ago

Travelling

"The sad state of the legal system. No doubt it will cost thousands to go to court even more if she ends up going to prison and more if she doesn't and we have to pay for security and protection.

That money could be better spent on helping the vulnerable or homeless in this country who haven't incited terrorism and murder.

But that wouldnt happen anyway.

Its not an either or situation "

Indeed. Quite comical to think if this situation was not happening that the money used to pay for it would go anywhere else worthwhile.

For a lot of people, the anger of her returning is from a place of fear/doubt that she will be met with any true consequences - her "punishment" that is of worthy justice will vary from person to person obviously.

Highley likely she will end up with a new identity after a very weak and short term of incarceration.

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By *ionelhutzMan
over a year ago

liverpool

We were (are)fighting a force who don't believe in democracy,free speech and a fair judicial system yet quite a lot of people want us to act in the same way.

Think Alanis morissette did a song about that.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Im a veteran but bring her home

Courts can deal with her it was illegal to join Isis so shes broke the law also read somewhere she was trying to recruit other british women if shes found guilty throw away the key let her fester in prison

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By *ionelhutzMan
over a year ago

liverpool

"The sad state of the legal system. No doubt it will cost thousands to go to court even more if she ends up going to prison and more if she doesn't and we have to pay for security and protection.

That money could be better spent on helping the vulnerable or homeless in this country who haven't incited terrorism and murder.

But that wouldnt happen anyway.

Its not an either or situation

Indeed. Quite comical to think if this situation was not happening that the money used to pay for it would go anywhere else worthwhile.

Highley likely she will end up with a new identity after a very weak and short term of incarceration."

Yep.They have been in power for 10 years bit it's only Tue forthcoming legal costs which is preventing them from helping the homeless.

She comes here to face justice.

Simple.

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By *othin 2 proveCouple
over a year ago

Blackpool

"We have one of the best legal systems in the world, let them do their job. It’s a high price but it’s worth it, no one is above the law, not even politicians or pms."
...................I Hear this alot! British justice best in the world and the envy of everyone else! What a load of hogwash! Yes it is the best in the world if you are a criminal waiting to go to trial but not if you are the victim.

The criminal will have already been briefed not to worry what every they give you will immidiatley be cut in half and we can chisel away at the rest. Another thing that gets my goat is when someone will stand there and say it's been good day the culprit got a life sentence blah blah blah and serve a minimum of 12 years. How they can say a life sentence and 12 or 15 years in the same sentence is laughable. So no wonder when a criminal commits a crime abroad they plead to be tried in Britain becase they know they will be treated far more leniently and have it very cushy. But I expect she will be back in the country before long? The left will see to that.

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By *ionelhutzMan
over a year ago

liverpool

Hasn't she lost a baby aswell?

Was she refused treatment here when her citizenship was took away?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"She was 15 years old when she left.

Three dead children.

Hated by her Country of Origin.

Stand trial or answer for what ...

.... for being a silly lil' girl ... ?"

As I understand it, the offence is assisting others in acts of terror.

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By *ionelhutzMan
over a year ago

liverpool

"We have one of the best legal systems in the world, let them do their job. It’s a high price but it’s worth it, no one is above the law, not even politicians or pms. ...................I Hear this alot! British justice best in the world and the envy of everyone else! What a load of hogwash! Yes it is the best in the world if you are a criminal waiting to go to trial but not if you are the victim.

Have you spent time inside?

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By *othin 2 proveCouple
over a year ago

Blackpool

Have you spent time inside?"
.................

Is that really the best you can come back with?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I was wondering how long it would be before this came up.

There's a legal process in place to ensure that subjective and emotionally inflammatory opinions, don't prejudice an individual.

Take aside your opinions and look at the legal right of the individual.

Personally, I think this was a silly naive 16 year old influenced by dangerous and manipulative forces. If ever there were lessons to be learnt about pitfalls of radicalisation and extremists she could be a perfect learning example for others.

I really don't think there's any tactical victory by removal of her citizenship.

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By *acey_RedWoman
over a year ago

Liverpool

I get what you're saying about if a foreign national was here, but is she actually still British? She left to join and become a citizen of the Islamic State.

Now that de facto country no longer exists, she wants to claim her British national status back. Which is a bit like having her cake and eating it.

It's a difficult one, especially considering the age she left but as long as she stands trial on her return then I see no problem. "

So if someone comes here from another country and just decides they're changing their citizenship to British without any legal process, they're just British now?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

A long, drawn out case, appeal after appeal, legality after legality, and more than likely to win her grubby little case on the grounds of Human Rights, in fear for her life..blah blah blah.

It is always a low point when people start dismissing the concept of human rights. (And it's especially worrying when politicians start dismissing human rights!). human rights protect us all! Human rights keep governments in check. Human rights keep courts in check. Human rights protect us, the people, when our overlords and masters overstep the mark.

Human rights have cost me. A judge made a technical clerical error on a judgement resulting in an entire case having to be redone, costing me thousands of pounds in costs. It hurt. I still believe in human rights.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Have you spent time inside?.................

Is that really the best you can come back with?

Allow me...

Have you ever been on the receiving end of the criminal justice system, either as a victim or as an offender? Is your opinion based on real life experience or as a reader of certain newspapers?

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By *othin 2 proveCouple
over a year ago

Blackpool

Have you spent time inside?.................

Is that really the best you can come back with?

Allow me...

Have you ever been on the receiving end of the criminal justice system, either as a victim or as an offender? Is your opinion based on real life experience or as a reader of certain newspapers?

No, it's not perfect. It's founded on the believe and principal that it is better for a guilty person to walk free than an innocent person to be convicted. Which, of course will never be accepted to the mob mentality. But that's why more learned people than "the mob" make and practice law."
Yes I have actually when my son was killed in Bradford nearly tweny years ago, and we moved out of the city to where I live now.

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By *agneto.Man
over a year ago

Bham

I get what you're saying about if a foreign national was here, but is she actually still British? She left to join and become a citizen of the Islamic State.

Now that de facto country no longer exists, she wants to claim her British national status back. Which is a bit like having her cake and eating it.

It's a difficult one, especially considering the age she left but as long as she stands trial on her return then I see no problem.

So if someone comes here from another country and just decides they're changing their citizenship to British without any legal process, they're just British now?"

If Britain were saying come join us, we want you to be part of our new Britain, we'll take you from anywhere in the world and you'll be part of our new country, oh an we require all our new citizens to burn or destroy their old passports, then yes.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Yes I have actually when my son was killed in Bradford nearly tweny years ago, and we moved out of the city to where I live now.

Firstly, I'm very sorry to hear that.

Secondly, as like me you've been through the system as a victim, you will understand that the law doesn't always get it right, or appear to be applied justly or fairly. (I've twice seen an offender get any with offences against a person on very dubious and indeed incorrect grounds)

But, despite all the times errors are made, and things appear to be wrong, what we have is the best there is.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

She needs to be deprogrammed and given counseling. She was groomed as a child by a terrorist organisation and has lost three children and probably seen horrific things (and perhaps caused some as well). Obviously she should be under lock and key while this happens, then extremely restricted parole when she has been assessed as no longer being a threat.

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By *ohn KanakaMan
over a year ago

Not all that North of North London

I get what you're saying about if a foreign national was here, but is she actually still British? She left to join and become a citizen of the Islamic State.

Now that de facto country no longer exists, she wants to claim her British national status back. Which is a bit like having her cake and eating it.

It's a difficult one, especially considering the age she left but as long as she stands trial on her return then I see no problem.

So if someone comes here from another country and just decides they're changing their citizenship to British without any legal process, they're just British now?

Are you saying that Islamic state was a formally recognized country?

The logic is completely flawed

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

[Removed by poster at 16/07/20 15:32:56]

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"She needs to be deprogrammed and given counseling. She was groomed as a child by a terrorist organisation and has lost three children and probably seen horrific things (and perhaps caused some as well). Obviously she should be under lock and key while this happens, then extremely restricted parole when she has been assessed as no longer being a threat."

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By *eeleyWoman
over a year ago

Dudley

While I understand your point, I disagree, she should serve a life sentence, she gave up her rights when she chose to become an enemy of our country. She has shown no remorse at all and very little emotion, I think she's a very dangerous woman.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I get what you're saying about if a foreign national was here, but is she actually still British? She left to join and become a citizen of the Islamic State.

Now that de facto country no longer exists, she wants to claim her British national status back. Which is a bit like having her cake and eating it.

It's a difficult one, especially considering the age she left but as long as she stands trial on her return then I see no problem.

So if someone comes here from another country and just decides they're changing their citizenship to British without any legal process, they're just British now?

Seems unlikely. A sizeable chunk of Britain (including the government) appears to have gone off the idea of being friends with foreigners

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"While I understand your point, I disagree, she should serve a life sentence, she gave up her rights when she chose to become an enemy of our country. She has shown no remorse at all and very little emotion, I think she's a very dangerous woman. "

At no point did she "give up her rights" although I do acknowledge it is a very popular thought that people do. You don't give up your human rights.

I think a court should decide her fate based on whatever evidence is put before it, and if found guilty decide an appropriate sentence.

Also, keep in mind that we are talking about a CHILD who was RADICALISED and left on a misguided mission of which she most likely did not fully understand the consequences. She too is a victim in all of this.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Seems unlikely. A sizeable chunk of Britain (including the government) appears to have gone off the idea of being friends with foreigners

Sad, but oh so true.

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By *pursChick aka ShortieWoman
over a year ago

On a mooch

"We might not always agree with decisions, however the law is the law and due process has to be followed, if it isn’t where does that leave us.

Anarchy?

Which I doubt anyone would want, I for one wouldn’t

No, I think that her right to citizenship goes to the heart of the question. I think it was easier for the government to withdraw her passport rhan deal with the issues the situation presents."

I cannot answer the question on her citizenship as do no know if she was born here or not.

My understanding of British citizens that were not born here (or a person from another country) that commit a crime serve their time here and then are deported back to their country of birth. However this also comes with conditions and not an automatic process, which is a whole different topic

If you are born here you are a British citizen, so where do people suggest she is sent to? She is not anyone else’s problem but our own.

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By *ulfilthmentMan
over a year ago

Just around the corner

She’s our problem. Why should we expect someone else to deal with it?

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By *eeleyWoman
over a year ago

Dudley

At no point did she "give up her rights" although I do acknowledge it is a very popular thought that people do. You don't give up your human rights.

I think a court should decide her fate based on whatever evidence is put before it, and if found guilty decide an appropriate sentence.

I didn't mean literally giving up her rights but she did choose to go and join people that were actively planning to kill people around the world. She supported them while they were killing thousands of people, women and children included. She may have been a victim at one point but I do not believe she is now, she's realised she's up shit creek and wants to come back to a cushy life here. Her lack of remorse or emotion about the things she's seen and possibly taken part in make me believe she has no interest in coming back here to be de-radicalised, she's dangerous and needs to be locked up if she comes back. She even said herself that she didn't regret going to join Isis, that she had a good time and she only decided to leave for her kids when things got harder.

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By *acey_RedWoman
over a year ago

Liverpool

I get what you're saying about if a foreign national was here, but is she actually still British? She left to join and become a citizen of the Islamic State.

Now that de facto country no longer exists, she wants to claim her British national status back. Which is a bit like having her cake and eating it.

It's a difficult one, especially considering the age she left but as long as she stands trial on her return then I see no problem.

So if someone comes here from another country and just decides they're changing their citizenship to British without any legal process, they're just British now?

You can't just choose to change your citizenship woth no legal process. That's not how any of that works.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Also, keep in mind that we are talking about a CHILD who was RADICALISED and left on a misguided mission of which she most likely did not fully understand the consequences. She too is a victim in all of this."

Exactly this. I can't help but wonder what the popular opinion would be if it was a fifteen year old white girl ("Jemima Burton"?), from a nice middle-class white family. Groomed online by a guy who talked her into running away to a warzone. Pregnant and three dead children before she made it out of her teens. Would people still be so dismissive when she realised she'd made a terrible mistake?

Nobody's saying welcome her back with open arms and no consequences. Let's just try and bear in mind that she was a child at the time, eh?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Let her rot in hell

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

" didn't mean literally giving up her rights but she did choose to go and join people that were actively planning to kill people around the world. She supported them while they were killing thousands of people, women and children included. She may have been a victim at one point but I do not believe she is now, she's realised she's up shit creek and wants to come back to a cushy life here. Her lack of remorse or emotion about the things she's seen and possibly taken part in make me believe she has no interest in coming back here to be de-radicalised, she's dangerous and needs to be locked up if she comes back. She even said herself that she didn't regret going to join Isis, that she had a good time and she only decided to leave for her kids when things got harder. "

As I understand it, she gave birth to three children during her time with ISIS, al of which have died.

She should be repatriated to the UK, where a UK court (not the court of public opinion) should decide on her guilt based on the available evidence and then, if found guilty, decide on her sentence and treatment. I'm not sure people are suggesting she's brought back and let loose on the streets of Britain.

I don't think it's reasonable to suggest she isn't still a victim. She was a brainwashed child... maybe a bit older now but still brainwashed. Perhaps she can be deradicalised? Perhaps not. But she is a UK citizen, and a country has to protect its citizens.

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By *sGivesWoodWoman
over a year ago

ST. AUSTELL, CORNWALL

"A waste of time and money and breathable air.

Bless her hate filled socks.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Nobody's saying welcome her back with open arms and no consequences. Let's just try and bear in mind that she was a child at the time, eh?"

Indeed

I dont condone what she's done

I just think the story is extremely sad.

Those girls should have been having sleepovers and talking about boys

Not mixing with evil people

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By *ionelhutzMan
over a year ago

liverpool

Have you spent time inside?.................

Is that really the best you can come back with?

I'll take that as a no.

Personally I wouldnt say spending 20 hrs in a cell in a Victorian prison is 'cushy '

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By *ionelhutzMan
over a year ago

liverpool

" I was wondering how long it would be before this came up.

There's a legal process in place to ensure that subjective and emotionally inflammatory opinions, don't prejudice an individual.

Take aside your opinions and look at the legal right of the individual.

I really don't think there's any tactical victory by removal of her citizenship. "

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By *ionelhutzMan
over a year ago

liverpool

Wasn't she like 14 when she left?

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By *othin 2 proveCouple
over a year ago

Blackpool

"Yes I have actually when my son was killed in Bradford nearly tweny years ago, and we moved out of the city to where I live now.

Firstly, I'm very sorry to hear that.

But, despite all the times errors are made, and things appear to be wrong, what we have is the best there is. "
......

Thank you but you were not to know.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

In a country like the UK whereby ISIS crimes are exceedingly commonly shown in the media, which Shamima would have been exposed to from an early age, and known that ISIS are an extremely violent and destructive terrorist organisation affiliated with other organisations such as the Taliban who also inflicted mass murder in the west, e.g. 9/11, she knew full well what she was getting into when she left. Whether a novelty decision or a serious one, she was bought up in the UK, a immensely liberal country compared to where she went, and where her ancestral origins are based, she still thought if it all went tits up, she'll be allowed back. Unfortunately she is now in the process of returning.

Had she committed treason like this in her own country, for example coming to the UK to support our values, but then regretting her choice and wished to go back to wherever in east she came from, she would face the death penalty or extremely brutal (but fair) repercussions.

Even in a country like Dubai brits are subject the brutal end of the law for minor and non violent petty actions like small quantity cannabis possession or being d*unk and disorderly.

She made her decision, and went. Either she comes back and faces brutally harsh but needed reform, or she stops whining and creates a life elsewhere (which she is lucky to have the option for anyway)

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By *othin 2 proveCouple
over a year ago

Blackpool

Have you spent time inside?.................

Is that really the best you can come back with?

I'll take that as a no.

Personally I wouldnt say spending 20 hrs in a cell in a Victorian prison is 'cushy '"
......

I can assure you that the man that killed my son did not spend 20hrs a day in a victorian prison cell. Again is that the best you can do?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

She's married. At some point the husband would want to move here.

She might be pregnant or be able to become so, if a return is likely. So it won't just be her.

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By *ohn KanakaMan
over a year ago

Not all that North of North London

Wasn't she like 14 when she left?"

Yes and I'm not sure why people are so certain she lacks remorse, how would/could anyone know that?

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By *ionelhutzMan
over a year ago

liverpool

"In a country like the UK whereby ISIS crimes are exceedingly commonly shown in the media, which Shamima would have been exposed to from an early age, and known that ISIS are an extremely violent and destructive terrorist organisation affiliated with other organisations such as the Taliban who also inflicted mass murder in the west, e.g. 9/11, she knew full well what she was getting into when she left. Whether a novelty decision or a serious one, she was bought up in the UK, a immensely liberal country compared to where she went, and where her ancestral origins are based, she still thought if it all went tits up, she'll be allowed back. Unfortunately she is now in the process of returning.

Even in a country like Dubai brits are subject the brutal end of the law for minor and non violent petty actions like small quantity cannabis possession or being d*unk and disorderly.

She made her decision, and went. Either she comes back and faces brutally harsh but needed reform, or she stops whining and creates a life elsewhere (which she is lucky to have the option for anyway)"

Erm

.the Taliban had nothing to do with 9/11.

As for mass murder we are ones to talk.

Wasn't she born here?

When she made her decision she was a child.

Whar brutally harsh reform do you have in mind?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I think you are making a very dangerous assumption that this CHILD was able to form correct judgement. We know little of her home life before she left, the company she kept, or the people of influence around her.

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By *ionelhutzMan
over a year ago

liverpool

Have you spent time inside?.................

Is that really the best you can come back with?

I'll take that as a no.

Personally I wouldnt say spending 20 hrs in a cell in a Victorian prison is 'cushy '......

I can assure you that the man that killed my son did not spend 20hrs a day in a victorian prison cell. Again is that the best you can do?

Being inside isn't "cushy'

Not in the slightest.

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By *ionelhutzMan
over a year ago

liverpool

"She's married. At some point the husband would want to move here.

She might be pregnant or be able to become so, if a return is likely. So it won't just be her.

The husband is banged up on Belgium isnt he?

Not sure how she would get preggers

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By *ionelhutzMan
over a year ago

liverpool

Wasn't she like 14 when she left?

Yes and I'm not sure why people are so certain she lacks remorse, how would/could anyone know that?"

Dunno.a lot of people seem to know a lot about her.

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By *ustyshowoffCouple
over a year ago

Cyprus

In an ideal world I’d fly her back on a private jet which would sadly crash after the pilot ejected to safety.

Mind you I think Putin would clean it up more easily.

She made her bed now let her rot in it

Mark

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By *penbicoupleCouple
over a year ago

Northampton

"Shamima Begum should be allowed to return to the UK to fight the decision to remove her British citizenship, the Court of Appeal has ruled.

The Isis supporter will be allowed legal aid in her quest for reinstatement of her citizenship.

British Justice or a waste of time and money?"

Absolutely the right decision.

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By *penbicoupleCouple
over a year ago

Northampton

"If she is allowed back, she should spend the rest of her life in prison!

For what exactly?

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By *eeleyWoman
over a year ago

Dudley

Wasn't she like 14 when she left?

Yes and I'm not sure why people are so certain she lacks remorse, how would/could anyone know that?"

She's said herself that she doesn't regret it and that she had a good time. She also said she knew what they were doing and she thought it was OK. She only left because it 'got harder' and there was alot of sickness and starvation, nothing to do with the mass murders they were commuting, the beheading of innocent people etc.

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By *othin 2 proveCouple
over a year ago

Blackpool

"Shamima Begum should be allowed to return to the UK to fight the decision to remove her British citizenship, the Court of Appeal has ruled.

The Isis supporter will be allowed legal aid in her quest for reinstatement of her citizenship.

British Justice or a waste of time and money?

Absolutely the right decision.

"
.........

Legal aid? I'm sure she will have a highly polished defence team around her that will be informing her and her family about the loopholes in our great british justice system that they will be using to get her back in the country.

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By *ohn KanakaMan
over a year ago

Not all that North of North London

Wasn't she like 14 when she left?

Yes and I'm not sure why people are so certain she lacks remorse, how would/could anyone know that?

Did she give a press conference? I'm genuinely curious as to how she said this?

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By *eeleyWoman
over a year ago

Dudley

Wasn't she like 14 when she left?

Yes and I'm not sure why people are so certain she lacks remorse, how would/could anyone know that?

Did she give a press conference? I'm genuinely curious as to how she said this?"

There were interviews with her.

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By *ionelhutzMan
over a year ago

liverpool

"Shamima Begum should be allowed to return to the UK to fight the decision to remove her British citizenship, the Court of Appeal has ruled.

The Isis supporter will be allowed legal aid in her quest for reinstatement of her citizenship.

British Justice or a waste of time and money?

Absolutely the right decision.

.........

The rich and wealthy tend to exploit loopholes.

Are you saying if you can't afford it you should have no legal representation?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Are you saying if you can't afford it you should have no legal representation?"

Sadly, the UK is rapidly moving in that direction. The legal aid budget is cut back so severely to be almost only available for public law.

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By *ionelhutzMan
over a year ago

liverpool

Wasn't she like 14 when she left?

Yes and I'm not sure why people are so certain she lacks remorse, how would/could anyone know that?

Did she give a press conference? I'm genuinely curious as to how she said this?

There were interviews with her. "

Reading the sky one she comes across as incredibly naive.

Whatever.. she comes back and faces justice for the consequences of her actions.

All this 'let her rot'stuff is barbaric.

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By *othin 2 proveCouple
over a year ago

Blackpool

"Shamima Begum should be allowed to return to the UK to fight the decision to remove her British citizenship, the Court of Appeal has ruled.

The Isis supporter will be allowed legal aid in her quest for reinstatement of her citizenship.

British Justice or a waste of time and money?

Absolutely the right decision.

.........

The rich and wealthy tend to exploit loopholes.

Are you saying if you can't afford it you should have no legal representation?"
..........

I'm pretty sure their will be no shortage of sympathisers that will be gladly donating to her fight!

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By *ionelhutzMan
over a year ago

liverpool

"Are you saying if you can't afford it you should have no legal representation?

Sadly, the UK is rapidly moving in that direction. The legal aid budget is cut back so severely to be almost only available for public law."

Another reason to be thankful we have got 5 years of these.

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By *2000ManMan
over a year ago

Worthing

Potential terrorist threat could be allowed back in to the UK. Yep, sounds about right. I despair of this country sometimes.

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By *ionelhutzMan
over a year ago

liverpool

"Shamima Begum should be allowed to return to the UK to fight the decision to remove her British citizenship, the Court of Appeal has ruled.

The Isis supporter will be allowed legal aid in her quest for reinstatement of her citizenship.

British Justice or a waste of time and money?

Absolutely the right decision.

.........

The rich and wealthy tend to exploit loopholes.

Are you saying if you can't afford it you should have no legal representation?..........

I'm pretty sure their will be no shortage of sympathisers that will be gladly donating to her fight!

I'lll ask again

Should you only have legal representation if you can afford it?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I'm pretty sure their will be no shortage of sympathisers that will be gladly donating to her fight!

People donating to a defence fund is very different to state funds. However, if she is returned to the UK, and charged with a criminal offence, she may be entitled to legal aid for her defence.

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By *ionelhutzMan
over a year ago

liverpool

"Potential terrorist threat could be allowed back in to the UK. Yep, sounds about right. I despair of this country sometimes."

Isnt everyone a 'potential terrorist?

Btw she was born here

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

It will open the floodgates to all the other ex british isis fuckers that now go “hmm ill just appeal to the high court, if she can do it so can i” and what happens if/when she commits a terrorist act everyone will go “told ya so” and all the dumb twats who agree she should come back will go “ awww poor girl, didnt really have much of a life bless her”

The worlds a shit state at the minute i hope it ends soon

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By *ionelhutzMan
over a year ago

liverpool

"It will open the floodgates to all the other ex british isis fuckers that now go “hmm ill just appeal to the high court, if she can do it so can i” and what happens if/when she commits a terrorist act everyone will go “told ya so” and all the dumb twats who agree she should come back will go “ awww poor girl, didnt really have much of a life bless her”

The worlds a shit state at the minute i hope it ends soon

She is probably going to go to jail.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

The government tried to prevent her being repatriated to the UK. The government have tried to revoke her citizenship.

The "dumb twats" are not arguing that she is an innocent little cherub who has done no wrong. What we are saying is she should retain her citizenship, be repatriated to the UK, and then under the due process of law, had a fair trial for her offences.

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By *othin 2 proveCouple
over a year ago

Blackpool

"Shamima Begum should be allowed to return to the UK to fight the decision to remove her British citizenship, the Court of Appeal has ruled.

The Isis supporter will be allowed legal aid in her quest for reinstatement of her citizenship.

British Justice or a waste of time and money?

Absolutely the right decision.

.........

The rich and wealthy tend to exploit loopholes.

Are you saying if you can't afford it you should have no legal representation?..........

I'm pretty sure their will be no shortage of sympathisers that will be gladly donating to her fight!

I'lll ask again

Should you only have legal representation if you can afford it?"
...........

Not sure what you are trying to say? My point was not that she that she should'nt have legal aid but with the massive support she will have she will not need it with what will be donated from the symperthisers, of which we know there are many to make sure she gets a bullitproof defence and keep working up the sympathy.!

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By *acey_RedWoman
over a year ago

Liverpool

"Potential terrorist threat could be allowed back in to the UK. Yep, sounds about right. I despair of this country sometimes."

I despair too when we keep being found guilty of human rights violations.

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By *uper SaiyanMan
over a year ago

Birmingham

As much as I would like to say dont bring her back, it would do a world of good for the British on a global level if they go through this and any follow ups that may occur. It will show other countries the Britain may have some shits but cleans up its mess. Overall she has no options anyway, and its all of her own doing, so no sympathy from me.

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By *ionelhutzMan
over a year ago

liverpool

"Shamima Begum should be allowed to return to the UK to fight the decision to remove her British citizenship, the Court of Appeal has ruled.

The Isis supporter will be allowed legal aid in her quest for reinstatement of her citizenship.

British Justice or a waste of time and money?

Absolutely the right decision.

.........

The rich and wealthy tend to exploit loopholes.

Are you saying if you can't afford it you should have no legal representation?..........

I'm pretty sure their will be no shortage of sympathisers that will be gladly donating to her fight!

I'lll ask again

Should you only have legal representation if you can afford it?...........

Because how else can she afford it?everyone should be entitled to legal representation but as said above its getting slashed

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

According to news sources (Telegraph and Independent), Britain has 'by far the highest rate of returning jihadi fighters in Europe' and only 1 in 10 have been prosecuted.

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By *entadreadMan
over a year ago

Essex

British justice, for a British Citizen!

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By *ouple in LancashireCouple
over a year ago

in Lancashire

There's a bit of sad irony when adults talk about putting someone associated with the vile Isis in acid..

That's sort of thinking is what they want the so called civilised world to drop down to..

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By *othin 2 proveCouple
over a year ago

Blackpool

"There's a bit of sad irony when adults talk about putting someone associated with the vile Isis in acid..

That's sort of thinking is what they want the so called civilised world to drop down to..

"
.....Indeed the name jo brand comes to mind and look at the damage it has done to her career.

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By *ionelhutzMan
over a year ago

liverpool

"According to news sources (Telegraph and Independent), Britain has 'by far the highest rate of returning jihadi fighters in Europe' and only 1 in 10 have been prosecuted."

Thought our no nonsense home sec was on the case?

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By *tingly ByronMan
over a year ago

In a town Fab forgot

"If she is allowed back, she should spend the rest of her life in prison if found guilty of any crime"

FTFY

You're welcome

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By *pursChick aka ShortieWoman
over a year ago

On a mooch

"Shamima Begum should be allowed to return to the UK to fight the decision to remove her British citizenship, the Court of Appeal has ruled.

The Isis supporter will be allowed legal aid in her quest for reinstatement of her citizenship.

British Justice or a waste of time and money?

Absolutely the right decision.

.........

The rich and wealthy tend to exploit loopholes.

Are you saying if you can't afford it you should have no legal representation?..........

I'm pretty sure their will be no shortage of sympathisers that will be gladly donating to her fight!

I'lll ask again

Should you only have legal representation if you can afford it?...........

Because how else can she afford it?everyone should be entitled to legal representation but as said above its getting slashed "

Legal aid has always been means tested.

When she returns it will be interesting to see how they charge her, as an adult or a child and what those charges are based on the evidence they have. She was a child when left, so a charge of supporting a terrorist organisation starts at that point.

So many factors to be taken into account but the largest one is the evidence

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Shamima was legally a child when she left the UK...she was at a vulnerable age and the age that is usually targeted by radicalists. I feel her case is unique and lumping her in with other jihadists isn't fair. She wasn't the one doing the radicalisation she was targeted by them. Then treated badly and dumped. I'm not sympathetic to terrorists at all but there is a much bigger picture here. In answer to the OPs question it's not about it being a waste of money, I feel it's more about us as a decent country not allowing a British citizen to 'rot' in another country. Whatever she has done I think it should be her country of birth that tries her, therefore the UK, and fairly. I know there are a lot of people who will disagree but I know how these vulnerable people can be targetted. Preventing radicalisation is what UK needs to focus on.

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By *adbod74Man
over a year ago

Dudley

Our taxes hard at work again, we should have a prison system for terrorists and sympathisers of terror but the problem we still ending up paying for their keep, so bring her back trust in our judktial system and as we expect she'll be out in what 3-5 years

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By *ssex_tomMan
over a year ago

Chelmsford

I always thought the Home Secretary was just trying to gain popularity with his decision to try and strip her of her British Citizenship. Many legal commentators at the time said it would ultimately fail.

Her case will be heard in a Court of Law and Courts of Law are not always Courts of Justice in the real sense.

When or if she succeeds many will be enraged and many will support her.

Lawyers will get very rich on this. She will probably need state protection too. What a can of worms all round.

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By *ionelhutzMan
over a year ago

liverpool

"Shamima was legally a child when she left the UK...she was at a vulnerable age and the age that is usually targeted by radicalists. I feel her case is unique and lumping her in with other jihadists isn't fair. She wasn't the one doing the radicalisation she was targeted by them. Then treated badly and dumped. I'm not sympathetic to terrorists at all but there is a much bigger picture here. In answer to the OPs question it's not about it being a waste of money, I feel it's more about us as a decent country not allowing a British citizen to 'rot' in another country. Whatever she has done I think it should be her country of birth that tries her, therefore the UK, and fairly. I know there are a lot of people who will disagree but I know how these vulnerable people can be targetted. Preventing radicalisation is what UK needs to focus on. "

Think you are spot on

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By *ionelhutzMan
over a year ago

liverpool

"Our taxes hard at work again, we should have a prison system for terrorists and sympathisers of terror but the problem we still ending up paying for their keep, so bring her back trust in our judktial system and as we expect she'll be out in what 3-5 years"

We do have a prison system

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By *ionelhutzMan
over a year ago

liverpool

Has every jihadi been stripped of their citizenship?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Rumour has it that she’s asking people if they want any tobacco before she flies back too

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By *ssex_tomMan
over a year ago

Chelmsford

Think you are spot on"

I think so much of this is propoganda on both sides.. one man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter.

UK Government labelled the IRA as terrorists. They called themselves soldiers. We bomb the shit out of countries and legitimise it with dodgey dossiers. When payback comes on our doorstep with acts that the Government call terror then look deeper. How dare they attack our civilians? Well for the record in WW2 we bombed the shit out of civilians in Dresden in Germany. Now was that an act of war or and act of terror?

And for the record I am a non religious pacifist. But I can smell bullshit when I see it.

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By *othin 2 proveCouple
over a year ago

Blackpool

That's very optimistic! I think from serving no prison time to possibly serving 3 to 6 months. And a book deal and film a bit further down the line.

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By *ionelhutzMan
over a year ago

liverpool

Think you are spot on

I think so much of this is propoganda on both sides.. one man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter.

And for the record I am a non religious pacifist. But I can smell bullshit when I see it.

It amazing no one asks why there is so much anger directed at us?

Probably something to do with the 100,000s of deaths we have caused.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

That's very optimistic! I think from serving no prison time to possibly serving 3 to 6 months. And a book deal and film a bit further down the line.

If a guilty verdict is delivered, then any offence with the word TERROR in it would result in a longer sentence.

If she receives a guilty verdict, then legally she would not be allowed to profit from the offence, such as book deals, film deals etc.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Read through half the thread. I wish more people thought and reasoned like Man Friday (and a few others on here) good on you mate.

For whoever said they'd like to see her bubble in a vat of acid, could you please explain what the difference between you and those you despise? As far as I can see it is only your choice of beliefs, aside from that you appear to have remarkably similar ideas about how to enforce those beliefs. I happen to believe that basic human decency and the freedom to practice the religion of your choice is a better belief system than forcing others to abide by a harsh distorted perversion of Islam, but using bubling vats of acid on those who disagree seems somewhat hypocritical don't you think?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Read through half the thread. I wish more people thought and reasoned like Man Friday (and a few others on here) good on you mate "

Thank you for your kind words!

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By *othin 2 proveCouple
over a year ago

Blackpool

"Read through half the thread. I wish more people thought and reasoned like Man Friday (and a few others on here) good on you mate.

When Jo brand say about throwing acid in peoples faces she gets applauded! I guess what really matters is who is on the receiving end? If it a middle aged white man then he is fair game?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

When Jo brand say about throwing acid in peoples faces she gets applauded! I guess what really matters is who is on the receiving end? If it a middle aged white man then he is fair game?

To be fair, what she said was clearly in jest (it was spoken during a comedy panel show). However, while some people applauded her remarks (Brexit did bring out the worst of British society) she didn't go without criticism. If I'm remembering events correctly, the Met police opened a file on the remark on grounds of encouraging violence, while OFCOM had a few choice words for the BBC.

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By *ionelhutzMan
over a year ago

liverpool

"Read through half the thread. I wish more people thought and reasoned like Man Friday (and a few others on here) good on you mate.

When Jo brand say about throwing acid in peoples faces she gets applauded! I guess what really matters is who is on the receiving end? If it a middle aged white man then he is fair game?

Isnt there a bit of a difference between a throwaway comment ained at one person, and someone advocating a girl barely out of her teens should be punished by drowned in acid?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Read through half the thread. I wish more people thought and reasoned like Man Friday (and a few others on here) good on you mate.

When Jo brand say about throwing acid in peoples faces she gets applauded! I guess what really matters is who is on the receiving end? If it a middle aged white man then he is fair game?

She immediately said it was a joke and didn't condone it but was still (rightly) reprimanded. No, middle aged white men are not fair game. Nice whataboutery though

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By *ohn KanakaMan
over a year ago

Not all that North of North London

"Read through half the thread. I wish more people thought and reasoned like Man Friday (and a few others on here) good on you mate.

When Jo brand say about throwing acid in peoples faces she gets applauded! I guess what really matters is who is on the receiving end? If it a middle aged white man then he is fair game?

I'm not sure what jo brand's comments have to do with anything. It was clearly a joke, on a comedy show that to an extent aims to be shocking and was a comment about milkshakes being thrown at Farage and Tommy Robinsin both of whom have their fair record fir inciting violence.

It doesn't really compare to suggesting a young female be punished by throwing her in a vat of acid to suffer an agonising death does it?

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By *amish SMan
over a year ago

Eastleigh

At the moment she can return and not be arrested - she is currently not a British citizen, so unless Pakistan have issued an arrest warrant she can do what she likes when here.

If she appeals and wins back her citizen ship she will be immediately arrested. The problem she has is getting here, I doubt if Turkey will let her over their border, anything could happen there and I suspect the YPG would like a chat with her.

She went abroad to aid an organisation to kill and torture British citizens as well as innocent others, including charity aid workers. Those that do that deserve a sentence that is worse than prison.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Think you are spot on

I think so much of this is propoganda on both sides.. one man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter.

And for the record I am a non religious pacifist. But I can smell bullshit when I see it.

It amazing no one asks why there is so much anger directed at us?

Probably something to do with the 100,000s of deaths we have caused."

What deaths have you caused?

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By *ouple in LancashireCouple
over a year ago

in Lancashire

"There's a bit of sad irony when adults talk about putting someone associated with the vile Isis in acid..

That's sort of thinking is what they want the so called civilised world to drop down to..

.....Indeed the name jo brand comes to mind and look at the damage it has done to her career.

She was wrong, didn't she apologise..?

It's a bit weird when this sort of topic comes up that some, usually blokes portray themselves in using such language etc..

Not sure many will be suitably aroused by it but hey ho..

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By *othin 2 proveCouple
over a year ago

Blackpool

"Read through half the thread. I wish more people thought and reasoned like Man Friday (and a few others on here) good on you mate.

When Jo brand say about throwing acid in peoples faces she gets applauded! I guess what really matters is who is on the receiving end? If it a middle aged white man then he is fair game?

Isnt there a bit of a difference between a throwaway comment ained at one person, and someone advocating a girl barely out of her teens should be punished by drowned in acid?"
........................................I am not advocating that anybody should be covered in acid or whatever, but some people can say things Jo brand and Maxine peake come to mind and no harm done to their career? Usually quite the opposite, While other like Laurence fox make some comment and bang nobody in the industry wants to work with him and his career looks to be in ruins?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I commented earlier, and read some of the thread with a rather beleaguered familiarity.

Ultimately ill repeat...its a 15 olds actions being played out on the political field. How many teenagers irresponsible and misguided activities get dealt with like this?

I'm happy for anyone regardless of my own perspective on the matter, to have due and fair process in the judicial world. Sometimes the best way to deal with a threat is to act in a kind manner?

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By *ionelhutzMan
over a year ago

liverpool

"At the moment she can return and not be arrested - she is currently not a British citizen, so unless Pakistan have issued an arrest warrant she can do what she likes when here.

She went abroad to aid an organisation to kill and torture British citizens as well as innocent others, including charity aid workers. Those that do that deserve a sentence that is worse than prison. "

Like?

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By *ty31Man
over a year ago

NW London

The (real) reason she was stripped of her citizenship is that the govt minister at the time (think it might of been Sajid Javid) knee that due to a cock up in UK law running away and joining ISIS was not actually illegal. When she started crying and wanting to come back he was faced with a choice between letting her in as a free person (and facing public wrath) or doing something drastic (and possibly unlawful) to save public face (and also maybe protect the public).

Personally, I have no sympathy for Ms Begum. She was old enough to know right from wrong and shows no repentance for what she's done.

However, as a believer in justice I do think her case should be heard (although she can stay in Syria and give her evidence via video). Should she be allowed back I think she needs to be made an example of, used to discourage others from Jihad etc. The thought of giving her a council flat and benefits and freedom is basically an insult to the families of terrorist victims.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"What a waste of money, leave her there it was her choice to leavea safe country, let her rot overseas"

She left the country as a child. She married as a child. Does she not deserve some compassion for poor decision-making? She has lost three young children.

I don't condone things she's reported to have done, but children's minds are easily manipulated. If she'd been an adult, I'd join the legion of those against her.

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By *ionelhutzMan
over a year ago

liverpool

"Read through half the thread. I wish more people thought and reasoned like Man Friday (and a few others on here) good on you mate.

When Jo brand say about throwing acid in peoples faces she gets applauded! I guess what really matters is who is on the receiving end? If it a middle aged white man then he is fair game?

Isnt there a bit of a difference between a throwaway comment ained at one person, and someone advocating a girl barely out of her teens should be punished by drowned in acid? ........................................I am not advocating that anybody should be covered in acid or whatever, but some people can say things Jo brand and Maxine peake come to mind and no harm done to their career? Usually quite the opposite, While other like Laurence fox make some comment and bang nobody in the industry wants to work with him and his career looks to be in ruins?

I think you are comparing 2 situations which literally couldn't be further apart.

Maxine peake tweeted a relatively inoffensive article and a mp who retweeted it was sacked.

This is about a very young girl involved in terrorism who according to some on here should be tortured and killed.

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By *amish SMan
over a year ago

Eastleigh

"At the moment she can return and not be arrested - she is currently not a British citizen, so unless Pakistan have issued an arrest warrant she can do what she likes when here.

She went abroad to aid an organisation to kill and torture British citizens as well as innocent others, including charity aid workers. Those that do that deserve a sentence that is worse than prison.

Like?"

Anything from the Tower of London's methods of dealing with traitors.

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By *lem-H-FandangoMan
over a year ago

salisbury

Who is paying her legal fees?

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By *ionelhutzMan
over a year ago

liverpool

"The (real) reason she was stripped of her citizenship is that the govt minister at the time (think it might of been Sajid Javid) knee that due to a cock up in UK law running away and joining ISIS was not actually illegal. When she started crying and wanting to come back he was faced with a choice between letting her in as a free person (and facing public wrath) or doing something drastic (and possibly unlawful) to save public face (and also maybe protect the public).

Personally, I have no sympathy for Ms Begum. She was old enough to know right from wrong and shows no repentance for what she's done.

There must have been some very self aware 14 year olds on here.

How can you believe in justice and that 'she should be made an example of'

She should face justice.

Simple.

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By *ionelhutzMan
over a year ago

liverpool

"At the moment she can return and not be arrested - she is currently not a British citizen, so unless Pakistan have issued an arrest warrant she can do what she likes when here.

She went abroad to aid an organisation to kill and torture British citizens as well as innocent others, including charity aid workers. Those that do that deserve a sentence that is worse than prison.

Like?

Anything from the Tower of London's methods of dealing with traitors. "

Right.

So we use tactics from 300 years ago?

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By *ionelhutzMan
over a year ago

liverpool

"Who is paying her legal fees?"

The community legal services board

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Anything from the Tower of London's methods of dealing with traitors. "

In other words, execution... why not just say it?

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By *othin 2 proveCouple
over a year ago

Blackpool

" I commented earlier, and read some of the thread with a rather beleaguered familiarity.

Ultimately ill repeat...its a 15 olds actions being played out on the political field. How many teenagers irresponsible and misguided activities get dealt with like this?

I'm happy for anyone regardless of my own perspective on the matter, to have due and fair process in the judicial world. Sometimes the best way to deal with a threat is to act in a kind manner? "

........... Robert johnson and James bulger spring to mind and they were younger than 15 year olds.

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By *ionelhutzMan
over a year ago

liverpool

[Removed by poster at 16/07/20 18:19:39]

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By *allySlinkyWoman
over a year ago

Leeds

I think you mean Jon Venables not James Bulger

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By *ionelhutzMan
over a year ago

liverpool

" I commented earlier, and read some of the thread with a rather beleaguered familiarity.

Ultimately ill repeat...its a 15 olds actions being played out on the political field. How many teenagers irresponsible and misguided activities get dealt with like this?

I'm happy for anyone regardless of my own perspective on the matter, to have due and fair process in the judicial world. Sometimes the best way to deal with a threat is to act in a kind manner?

........... Robert johnson and James bulger spring to mind and they were younger than 15 year olds.

Jamie bulger was the kid who was killed

The 2 killers were imprisoned.

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By *attM73Man
over a year ago

Oldham

The British Justice system is a joke anyway, they’ll just roll over and let the isis lover back in, I say leave her to rot in the place she wanted to go to in the first place

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By *ionelhutzMan
over a year ago

liverpool

Britain.

The home of tolerance

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By *eavenNhellCouple
over a year ago

carrbrook stalybridge

ah the new myra hindley is dragged into the headlines again

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I'm happy for anyone regardless of my own perspective on the matter, to have due and fair process in the judicial world. Sometimes the best way to deal with a threat is to act in a kind manner? "

........... Robert johnson and James bulger spring to mind and they were younger than 15 year olds.

Not sure she's murdered anyone? Remember not all the facts are on Facebook

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Oof Facebook card played, shots fired

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By *ob Carpe DiemMan
over a year ago

Torquay

There are some vile views around, the law exists for a reason, she may have broken one but depriving her of citizenship if she has no other is also not legal and that's the government doing it. Her baby boy died in a refugee camp, he could have been brought back and probably lived, hardly his fault.

She's not Bangladesh, she belongs here and no she she should not be imprisoned for life where do some of you people get this from, you are at least as bad as the people she was supporting

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By *Wman15Man
over a year ago

Altrincham

She was a stupid little girl seduced by those that glamourised violence and she failed to appreciate what life would really be like in the backward "society" that she would be joining

I'm not aware that she actually committed any violent crimes herself...maybe her case is more akin to "assisting an offender"

She needs to be properly dealt with in a court of law, and not just by public opinion. The latter is notoriously fickle and easily influenced by those with ulterior motives

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By *othin 2 proveCouple
over a year ago

Blackpool

" I commented earlier, and read some of the thread with a rather beleaguered familiarity.

Ultimately ill repeat...its a 15 olds actions being played out on the political field. How many teenagers irresponsible and misguided activities get dealt with like this?

I'm happy for anyone regardless of my own perspective on the matter, to have due and fair process in the judicial world. Sometimes the best way to deal with a threat is to act in a kind manner?

........... Robert johnson and James bulger spring to mind and they were younger than 15 year olds.

Jamie bulger was the kid who was killed

The 2 killers were imprisoned."
................................Yes your right the old memory letting me down there! I'm sorry what was the purpose of her going abroad was it not to support murder and hopefully bare children that would become murderers? I know it sounds a bit far fetched but I'm sure that was couple of her main aims?

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By *ichaelangelaCouple
over a year ago

notts

Do you think she might pick 200 fags up on her way back ???

Asking for a friend

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By *ionelhutzMan
over a year ago

liverpool

"She was a stupid little girl seduced by those that glamourised violence and she failed to appreciate what life would really be like in the backward "society" that she would be joining

I'm not aware that she actually committed any violent crimes herself...maybe her case is more akin to "assisting an offender"

She needs to be properly dealt with in a court of law, and not just by public opinion. The latter is notoriously fickle and easily influenced by those with ulterior motives "

As proved by reading some of these posts

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By *ionelhutzMan
over a year ago

liverpool

" I commented earlier, and read some of the thread with a rather beleaguered familiarity.

Ultimately ill repeat...its a 15 olds actions being played out on the political field. How many teenagers irresponsible and misguided activities get dealt with like this?

I'm happy for anyone regardless of my own perspective on the matter, to have due and fair process in the judicial world. Sometimes the best way to deal with a threat is to act in a kind manner?

........... Robert johnson and James bulger spring to mind and they were younger than 15 year olds.

Jamie bulger was the kid who was killed

The 2 killers were imprisoned.................................Yes your right the old memory letting me down there! I'm sorry what was the purpose of her going abroad was it not to support murder and hopefully bare children that would become murderers? I know it sounds a bit far fetched but I'm sure that was couple of her main aims?

One man's terrorist is another freedom fighter.

The purpose of her going abroad will surely come out in the trial

Presumably many on her would have had sufraggetes executed.

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By *arry247Couple
over a year ago

Wakefield

She is fighting to come back to the UK because it is feared if she is sent to Bangladesh she could be tried for being involved with terrorism and face capital punishment.

This is not some niave little girl out of her depth but a skilled attempt to prevent being tried for crimes under the laws of Bangladesh.

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By *agneto.Man
over a year ago

Bham

I get what you're saying about if a foreign national was here, but is she actually still British? She left to join and become a citizen of the Islamic State.

Now that de facto country no longer exists, she wants to claim her British national status back. Which is a bit like having her cake and eating it.

It's a difficult one, especially considering the age she left but as long as she stands trial on her return then I see no problem.

So if someone comes here from another country and just decides they're changing their citizenship to British without any legal process, they're just British now?

You can't just choose to change your citizenship woth no legal process. That's not how any of that works. "

Of course if you're going to UN recognised legitimate country there's legal process that would have to be followed.

But going to join a caliphate and become a citizen of the Islamic state of Iraq and syria, a de facto state, which she did become a citizen of, is slightly different.

Whether that invalidated her British citizenship is up to the courts.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

So so true

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By *ob Carpe DiemMan
over a year ago

Torquay

Martin McGuiness belonged to a terrorist organisation and he became a politician, she was 15 for goodness sake and hasn't killed anyone. She had a belief most people don't share it ain't the worst crime in the world.

As for Jamie Bulger's killers hardly the same but I do recall the mob hatred whipped up by the press, not long after a couple were convicted of smashing a babies head against a wall in a fit of rage, bet they aren't still in prison

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By *uck-RogersMan
over a year ago

Tarka trail

And no dought in the future she will get a lot of compensation.

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By *siancouplehantsCouple
over a year ago

K-PAX

"We might not always agree with decisions, however the law is the law and due process has to be followed, if it isn’t where does that leave us.

Anarchy?

Which I doubt anyone would want, I for one wouldn’t

No, I think that her right to citizenship goes to the heart of the question. I think it was easier for the government to withdraw her passport rhan deal with the issues the situation presents.

I cannot answer the question on her citizenship as do no know if she was born here or not.

If you are born here you are a British citizen, so where do people suggest she is sent to? She is not anyone else’s problem but our own.

She is a citizen of Bangladesh by descent,so can return there if she wishes

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By *moothman2000Man
over a year ago

Leicestershire

She was smart enough to evade the authorities to get to Syria and made a choice to join a terrorist organisation.

If she's that smart then she should be sorting her own mess out instead of using the Human Rights card.

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By *hat BlokeMan
over a year ago

Harrogate

"The sad state of the legal system. No doubt it will cost thousands to go to court even more if she ends up going to prison and more if she doesn't and we have to pay for security and protection.

That money could be better spent on helping the vulnerable or homeless in this country who haven't incited terrorism and murder.

By that judgement, just do away with the legal system entirely, the police and offender management, etc and save a fortune... except we wouldn't.

The general population cannot and should not act as judge jury and executioner. If we go down that road, we loose a piece of our civilisation."

I had this exact argument with a friend of mine on Facebook at the time. She is a problem but she is OUR problem and we should deal with her by rule of law not mob rule which they have in Afghanistan or Pakistan.

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