FabSwingers.com forum: Freedom of speech

By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

Hi,

do you think we should each have freedom of speech, as countless of our elders have fought for, or should you only be able to speak and be heard if your opinion fits in with others and the social norm?

To me it's an interesting topic and not one that many are comfortable with. It's very easy these days to go with the crowd on social and mainstream media, blindly following. It's much more difficult to speak out as that may cause upset to the majority (that have to be pacified).

Is free speech dead or is there still a place for it in the world without censorship?

Cheers,

Bloke

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I think what people misunderstand is that free speech does not mean but you can break laws or that there aren't consequences.

Many people hide behind free speech to spout hate and that isn't acceptable, to bully or ridicule.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I say what I feel.

The end.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I say what I feel.

The end."

Yes of course most of us do but most of us wouldn't go out of our way to deliberately be controversial or hurtful, then say well its a free country.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

W* a** h*** f******* o* s*****, j*** n******* p***** g** o******* t* e*****.

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By *stellaWoman
over a year ago

London

Freedom of speech.

Be prepared to be held accountable for what you say though.

Also the tolerance paradox kicks in at some point.

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By *partharmonyCouple
over a year ago

Ruislip

Freedom of speech is important. People should use it responsibly though. Hate speech should not be tolerated.

There is a difference between free speech and giving somebody a platform. If YouTube or Twitter for example take down contraversial comments, that is not really an infringement on freedom of speech.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

Everyone should be held accountable for what they say. That should go without saying.

Putting an opinion forward that doesn't break any laws and isn't disrespectful against any specific group or individual should be allowed?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

When Hitler was touring the beer halls with his hate speech he decried people trying to "censor" him, insisting on his right to freedom of speech even where it infringed on the rights of others.

Our forefathers fought for our freedoms; it cheapens their legacy to claim it was simply for the ultimate freedom of speech "at all costs".

History, forgotten, repeats.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"When Hitler was touring the beer halls with his hate speech he decried people trying to "censor" him, insisting on his right to freedom of speech even where it infringed on the rights of others.

Our forefathers fought for our freedoms; it cheapens their legacy to claim it was simply for the ultimate freedom of speech "at all costs".

History, forgotten, repeats."

When did I ever claim that it was just about freedom of speech? Pretty sur I never did (or would).

I agree that we need to learn from history, but at the same time can't hold on to it and allow it to define us or prejudice us against others. 'The sins of the fathers aren' t the sins of the sons'. Holding grudges never helps any of us move on and be better than we were yesterday.

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By *egasus NobMan
over a year ago

Wandsworth

Twitter, Youtube, Facebook, this forum are all a service.

Freedom of speech comes with accepting the consequence which can be positive, negative or neutral. Action—reaction.

If I post on Youtube asking do you think I am ....? I put myself up for any type of reply I get. Bear in mind the replies are going to be coming from multiple cultures, groups, age, etc. You will get a different opinion. It is very easy to create war on social media just pair to groups against each other and sit back and watch.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I agree that we need to learn from history, but at the same time can't hold on to it and allow it to define us or prejudice us against others. 'The sins of the fathers aren' t the sins of the sons'. Holding grudges never helps any of us move on and be better than we were yesterday. "

"The sins of our fathers", in this instance, being the snuffing out of fascism?

I definitely hold a grudge against Nazis, and I continue to believe that some people should have their speech restricted (e.g. Nazis).

So no, some speech should not be free.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"The sins of our fathers", in this instance, being the snuffing out of fascism?

I definitely hold a grudge against Nazis, and I continue to believe that some people should have their speech restricted (e.g. Nazis).

So no, some speech should not be free."

No, I wasn't referring to fascism.

It's a biblical term (in the sense I meant it) , not that I am religious.

I take it as you shouldn't hold others to be responsible for what their/your ancestors did.

We should all form our own opinions, bonds and relationships.

It's that simple, to me at least. Treat others as you want to be treated yourself. Respect begets respect.

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By *ophieslutTV/TS
over a year ago

Central

All freedoms that we have will have limitations and potential consequences.

It's reasonable too, in a world that contains other people other than a solitary 1, that our actions have potential impacts on others. Our communication definitely impacts on others and whilst you may believe that you can say what you wish, it would take someone lacking in empathy to not care how it impacts on anyone else.

Communication is powerful. Words help to change the world. Leave the world a better place, speak responsibly.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"All freedoms that we have will have limitations and potential consequences.

Communication is powerful. Words help to change the world. Leave the world a better place, speak responsibly.

. "

In my opinion only (I can only speak for myself), that is a very wise and sensible reply.

I'm not advocating speaking hate or bile.

Just opinions that may differ from others but are not the majority thoughts.

Of course any kind of prejudice should be dealt with appropriately.

We should not be unable to make any comments for the fear of upsetting someone who's opinions aren't compatible, as long as neither are legally or obviously morally wrong, even if one party finds another's offensive on the grounds that they simply disagree.

I'm talking about freedom of speech, not, 'Say whatever you like with no regard for others'.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Without freedom of speech no gay rights / ethnic rights / women's rights activist would never have gained support for their respective causes. Everyone should have the right to express their opinions as long as they do it publicly and without anonymity.

I have more often than not been alerted to and sympathetic to the causes of others from hearing the bigoted rants of their oppressors.

I'd much rather live in a world where everyone can have their say rather that a suppressed PC nursery.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Freedom of speech just doesn't happen now cause there is so many laws n rules you can never say what you want to say n if you do you end up in shit one way or another so never free you can have a speech but get ready for all the bollocks that comes after just my opinion before someone starts saying this n that about what I put the way the world is now I wasn't born in the 60s but taking me there way nicer then this shit earth we got now

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By *dam_TinaCouple
over a year ago

Hampshire

"Freedom of speech just doesn't happen now cause there is so many laws n rules you can never say what you want to say n if you do you end up in shit one way or another so never free you can have a speech but get ready for all the bollocks that comes after just my opinion before someone starts saying this n that about what I put the way the world is now I wasn't born in the 60s but taking me there way nicer then this shit earth we got now "

I believe in freedom to use punctuation

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By *oss and SuzieCouple
over a year ago

Porthmadog

Freedom of speech is a fundamental right which is being suppressed. Let the bigots, racists and extremists speak. The vast majority of the public know a nut when they see one, and better to have them out in the open.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Another word for lack of EQ?

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By *nabelle21Woman
over a year ago

B38

I believe in freedom to use punctuation"

I believe in the freedom of not to if one so wishes

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Freedom of speech is a fundamental right which is being suppressed. Let the bigots, racists and extremists speak. The vast majority of the public know a nut when they see one, and better to have them out in the open."

I personally believe it’s not being suppressed so much, but rather more manipulated with fear?

The ability to debate controversial topics and explore your experiences is fast becoming a dangerous past time, especially on social media platforms.

Take a look at Fab. There’s a contingent here that will eye roll, tut, point the finger etc very quickly if you’re not in tune with their mindset as opposed to actually hearing what you have to say.

But you could argue,If a Shadow secretary in a political party can share fake stories to feed her own beliefs to gain notoriety, then you could argue it’s not being suppressed? Live by the sword die by the sword.

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By *acey_RedWoman
over a year ago

Liverpool

"I think what people misunderstand is that free speech does not mean but you can break laws or that there aren't consequences.

Many people hide behind free speech to spout hate and that isn't acceptable, to bully or ridicule.

This. Also freedom of speech has never meant the right to say whatever you want, wherever you want. Nor has it ever removed the right for others to respond to what you say in a negative way.

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By *acey_RedWoman
over a year ago

Liverpool

"Twitter, Youtube, Facebook, this forum are all a service.

Freedom of speech comes with accepting the consequence which can be positive, negative or neutral. Action—reaction.

Anyone who complains about being deplatformed on social media being a violation of freedom of speech doesn't know what freedom of speech means. Social media isn't owned by the government.

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By *acey_RedWoman
over a year ago

Liverpool

"Freedom of speech is important. People should use it responsibly though. Hate speech should not be tolerated.

There is a difference between free speech and giving somebody a platform. If YouTube or Twitter for example take down contraversial comments, that is not really an infringement on freedom of speech. "

Absolutely

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By *htcMan
over a year ago

Freedom of speech is something you can't say. As there is always someone who will get upset and then go to the press or YouTube. But it is normally fine to say what you want with people you know we'll close friends and family. No one else. Never tell someone who is left something as they will cause a big problem.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Say what you want, believe what you choose, BUT be judged by it and allow others the same privilege too!

I think the big BUT is the part most ppl struggle with sadly....

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By *othin 2 proveCouple
over a year ago

Blackpool

We have already seen that freedom of speach has been shut down in alot of universitys and the other such places with the non platforming! If they don't like what you stand for or what they think you are going to say you won't be heard.

They only want to listen to people that are in the same bubble as them! Just like some of the people on here! They just want to kill debate and have such a narrow mind set.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

As adults we should all know what and what not to say outloud.

Most people don't want to hear your opinion - so what's the point of sharing it.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Karen likes to tell it like it is, FACT.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

[Removed by poster at 28/06/20 09:51:49]

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By *andy2123Couple
over a year ago

Portsmouth

"I think what people misunderstand is that free speech does not mean but you can break laws or that there aren't consequences.

Many people hide behind free speech to spout hate and that isn't acceptable, to bully or ridicule.

So true x

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By *wisted999Man
over a year ago

North Bucks

I can’t think of something I want to say that I can’t say ?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

42 years ago today, I raised my right hand, took an oath to defend freedom. I believe in freedom of speech. It bothers me when someone burns the American flag in the USA at a protest rally, while they exercise their very freedom of speech! When I see something like that, I am proud that I stood up to be counted, so they in turn can also stand up to be counted, in a very different way. It’s what freedom is all about... for me at least.

I may disagree with someone and they may disagree with me, but I respect their views and hope they do the same for me. When we learn those lessons from one another, we indeed are free!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Absolutely. Free speech needs to be defended. If someone was spouting something I found to be outrageously wrong and were being silenced I would do my upmost to make sure that was reconsidered. It is not only the right of the person to share their view but the audience (me and you) has the right to listen/hear what they have to say.

Unfortunately the CEO’s of social media platforms are between as rock and a hard place. They mostly come from the old school hacker ethos that all information should be disseminated freely and without moderation. Unfortunately they are running public companies, with shareholders and advertisers, so they’ve got no option to become gate keepers and have rules about who can say what on their platform. I really feel for them as it is going to be so painful implementing censorship.

“The freedom of speech is meaningless unless it means the freedom of the person who thinks differently” — Rosa Luxemburg

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By *ssex_tomMan
over a year ago

Chelmsford

Many lobbying groups try to shut down free speech and debate by labelling others... as racists and phobics if it does not suit their agenda. Better to debate and listen then everybody learns... And no platforming at Universities is pathetic and only reinforces the brainwashing of the snowflake generation...

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

It's impressive how everyone in this thread defending ultimate free speech isn't willing to say they would let Hitler rise again rather than shut him down when he started.

It's really very simple, and we have a clear historical precedent that cannot be ignored. If you defend ultimate free speech then you need to defend the free speech of Nazis, whatever the consequences.

Are you willing to own that?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"It's impressive how everyone in this thread defending ultimate free speech isn't willing to say they would let Hitler rise again rather than shut him down when he started.

Are you willing to own that?"

Sadly, I don’t have a time machine to stand up against Hitler, but I can tell you, good men and women did so, and defeated the regime. My Uncle was one such example, landing on a beach in Normandy. If you’re trying to draw any current parallels, I am happy to go there with you and can say I do indeed own it!

Using social media to express views is far different than putting on a uniform and defending freedom, even for those who preach hate or who’s views I disagree with. Ultimately freedom reigns along with liberty and justice for all. I rarely wear my medals and wings as a veteran, but when I do, I wear them with pride and reflect on friends I served with who made the ultimate sacrifice, including one who was missing for twenty years. With that in mind, hell yeah, I own it proudly!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Sadly, I don’t have a time machine to stand up against Hitler, but I can tell you, good men and women did so, and defeated the regime. My Uncle was one such example, landing on a beach in Normandy. If you’re trying to draw any current parallels, I am happy to go there with you and can say I do indeed own it!

Right, so the next Hitler comes along arguing that we commit genocide and all the other standard Fascism fare, and you're saying we should just stand aside because all speech, even speech that literally led to WW2/the Holocaust/ultimate sacrifices/etc, is sacred?

Fuck that. Some speech should clearly be restricted, believing otherwise is idealist and naive.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Yes it is very important to have free speech, especially if you dont agree with something, you should then be able to say what you want without getting labled, you dont want it to be like north korea

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By *egasus NobMan
over a year ago

Wandsworth

Ultimate free speech should be allowed but you have to know it come with consequences there will be those that agree and there will be those that disagree or ostracize, similar consequences for lack of free speech.

Both sides lead to the same result, people die for the freedom of speech, people die, silence or oppress without freedom of speech. As said earlier freedom of speech comes with accepting the consequence which can be positive, negative or neutral. For every action, there is a reaction. if I were to coil abuse at you the members of the forum have three choices, agree, disagree or ostracize me that is the simple form of freedom of speech that happens in a bigger more collective mindset.

I would assume someone like Hitler will be ostracized and ignore pretty sure people will not want to be associated with, then again that can be dangerous because ignore groups can form their own organization.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Fuck that. Some speech should clearly be restricted, believing otherwise is idealist and naive."

Far be it for me to try and offer you any history lessons, however; your perspective of history and parallels of today are far more reaching than you allow yourself. Today, we have the advantage of technology and are far better educated. If you think free speech should be prevented, where do you draw the line? What should be allowed and disallowed? Who determines the parameters? Thankfully, I sleep well knowing that 42 years ago, I stood up for freedom- even for those views I disagree with. I dislike a lot of the political rhetoric I hear, but take solace in knowing that as a free man with a vote, I can overcome with the ballot box! Eventually, we all come to our senses, including those who share your troubling views.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Far be it for me to try and offer you any history lessons, however; your perspective of history and parallels of today are far more reaching than you allow yourself. Today, we have the advantage of technology and are far better educated. If you think free speech should be prevented, where do you draw the line? What should be allowed and disallowed? Who determines the parameters? Thankfully, I sleep well knowing that 42 years ago, I stood up for freedom- even for those views I disagree with. I dislike a lot of the political rhetoric I hear, but take solace in knowing that as a free man with a vote, I can overcome with the ballot box! Eventually, we all come to our senses, including those who share your troubling views.

Shades of grey include black and white, and access to information doesn't rid the world of bad people. Also: being in the army doesn't necessarily mean you fought for freedom - Iraq and Afghanistan being obvious recent examples (though our armed forces did important work defending freedom in e.g. Yugoslavia, and anyway don't get a say in where the government sends them).

If you don't think that inciting genocide should be banned then I don't know what to tell you mate. Hitler couldn't have been beaten by access to Wikipedia.

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By *ssex_tomMan
over a year ago

Chelmsford

Let's not erode our freedom of speech

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

If you don't think that inciting genocide should be banned then I don't know what to tell you mate. Hitler couldn't have been beaten by access to Wikipedia."

I am not sure where you’re coming from on inciting genocide, and your reference to conflicts you clearly know little of. I am often saddened by those with little more experience of life, albeit lived on a keyboard - sad. Go down to the Army recruiter and discover for yourself, rather than dwindling a life of promises unfulfilled... Then come back to me and tell me what YOU indeed own!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I am not sure where you’re coming from on inciting genocide, and your reference to conflicts you clearly know little of. I am often saddened by those with little more experience of life, albeit lived on a keyboard - sad. Go down to the Army recruiter and discover for yourself, rather than dwindling a life of promises unfulfilled... Then come back to me and tell me what YOU indeed own!"

Alright buddy, I'm sure that if we get everyone to join the army, and insist on defending hate speech, that'll all work out just dandy

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By *ssex_tomMan
over a year ago

Chelmsford

Who defines what is hate speech ?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Who defines what is hate speech ? "

It's simple to define one. Normally the speaker lacks the EQ!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Welsh bloke is homophobic racist mysoginisric sexist. SHOCKA. This won’t be posted so no matter. My money air good enough

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Welsh bloke is homophobic racist mysoginisric sexist. SHOCKA. This won’t be posted so no matter. My money air good enough "

Huh?

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By *arl17Man
over a year ago

Central Portugal

All for free speech... not stupid crap speech x

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By *iss Penny TrationWoman
over a year ago

You can have free speech .... the issue is when people become offensive. You can say anything you like with mindful, kind words. Free speech doesn’t have to translate to being rude. Which is what most people aren’t grasping tbh

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By *arl17Man
over a year ago

Central Portugal

"You can have free speech .... the issue is when people become offensive. You can say anything you like with mindful, kind words. Free speech doesn’t have to translate to being rude. Which is what most people aren’t grasping tbh"

Totally agree

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Fredome of speech is a must for a balanced society.

Hate speech is just what it says. Anyone preaching with intent to cause violence is as guilty as those who commit the act in person and should therefore pay the consequences.

Problem is there are too many do gooders who still defend that extremism.

When Abu Hamza (captain hook) was here preaching his hate rhetoric in Finsbury Park all those years ago it wasn't stopped. His hatred for this country which gave him a free home for him and his wives and children plus 100's of pounds a week is only rivaled by the likes of Anjem Choudary.

Fredome to speak your mind yes, but when it's to insite death, injury or harm it should be stamped on with contempt and consequence. Dont matter if your black or white.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Interesting thread

Here's my thoughts.

I think that in many countries where freedom of speech has always been cherished such as UK, Canada, Australia, New Zealand there has been a steady suppression over time.

There are so many things that we are not allowed to say now that people are almost afraid to actually speak, full stop.

I don't necessarily think that it's because certain words ACTUALLY offend most people but more the fact that there are so many people who are afraid that segments of society MIGHT get offended.

In reality the, and I'm sorry to say, outrage squad; the SJWs; the 'woke' culture crowd; the intersectionals; the Tw*tter check marks; etc., are an incredibly small but loud and effective group.

The ideologies of these groups has gotten into the media - both MSM and social media meaning that the news we get is becoming more and more curated and to question the narrative is to commit hate speech.

My thoughts are that there should be no limits on what is free speech - none. Because, who is the arbiter of hate speech? Who decides what is OK to say and what is not?

We've become very complacent over the years and we've just gone along with the wave over time because, until now, it's been fairly subtle. We just accepted that it was the simple evolution of language of what is acceptable and what is not.

However, there is a world of difference between what we are not ALLOWED to say and what we are MADE to say, and we are getting close to some dangerous territory whenever speech is curated. History taught us that in some horrendous ways in no clearer lesson than in during the 20th century.

As I said, there should be no holds barred on what is deemed free speech - short of a call to v*olent action.

But, it is important to understand that rights do not come without responsibly; you have the right to say whatever you want but, you have the responsibility to not be an arsehole.

Speech belongs to the individual as a tool to openly share his/her thoughts. Society will not improve with suppressed speech but can flourish when we can freely voice or concerns and our ideas.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Freedom of speech is exactly that, freedom to shout fire in a crowded building.

The idiots conflating this simple concept with all manner of extraneous waffle about laws, responsibility and repercussions do so by virtue that they cannot police their own lifestyle desicions thus require agency to be given to third party forces.

Poor little dumplings.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Freedom of speech is exactly that, freedom to shout fire in a crowded building.

Poor little dumplings. "

I agree in large part but give a blanket freedom to say as you like you'll be forced to allow the likes of Anjem Choudary to do also and look what his words of hate has bought us so far...

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Freedom of speech is exactly that, freedom to shout fire in a crowded building.

Poor little dumplings.

I agree in large part but give a blanket freedom to say as you like you'll be forced to allow the likes of Anjem Choudary to do also and look what his words of hate has bought us so far..."

You can't draw a subjective line to please yourself. If Choudarys views run contrary to yours, diddums.

If his views are so potentially dangerous that they might threaten the constitution underwhich your freedom of speech is guaranteed, then Choudary would be shown (using the United States Constitution as the prime example here) just why the first ammendment guaranteeing freedom of speech was backed up by the second ammendment and any threat he might pose would be rendered null and void.

In the UK however, we have neither freedom of speech, much lesss a second ammendment right with which to protect it.

The founding fathers were more intelligent than you.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Freedom of speech is exactly that, freedom to shout fire in a crowded building.

Poor little dumplings.

I agree in large part but give a blanket freedom to say as you like you'll be forced to allow the likes of Anjem Choudary to do also and look what his words of hate has bought us so far...

You can't draw a subjective line to please yourself. If Choudarys views run contrary to yours, diddums.

In the UK however, we have neither freedom of speech, much lesss a second ammendment right with which to protect it.

The founding fathers were more intelligent than you. "

You sympathise with his terrorist rhetoric then I take it?

You will allow him his platform to indoctrinat and brainwash those who will go on to commit murderous campaigns against innocent children and their parents?

As for the founding fathers and American constitution what the hell has it got to do with British law.

Btw how is their record on human rights looking these days?

And you presume far too much about my intelligence.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Freedom of speech is exactly that, freedom to shout fire in a crowded building.

Poor little dumplings.

I agree in large part but give a blanket freedom to say as you like you'll be forced to allow the likes of Anjem Choudary to do also and look what his words of hate has bought us so far...

You can't draw a subjective line to please yourself. If Choudarys views run contrary to yours, diddums.

In the UK however, we have neither freedom of speech, much lesss a second ammendment right with which to protect it.

The founding fathers were more intelligent than you. "

The more I read your vile post the more stupid you become lol

To quote you " you cant draw a subjective line to please yourself. If Choudry's views run contrary to yours, diddums" (by the way I won't charge for correcting your grammar)

So it diddums then is it?

I wonder if Drummer Lee Rigby's parents thought diddums then when two of Choudary's disciples decapitated him on a street in london. Oh that's london England buddy not Washington DC.

You think its diddums for the victims of the 7/7 london bombings or maybe the London Bridge attacks.

The list does go on...

Perhaps you'll enlighten us on how you can justify a man who controls his puppets under his freedom of speech banner?

His words preach hate like the Jedi mind trick on impressionable sheep.

You should hang your head in shame using the word diddums about someone who encourages and applauded murderous actions.

Freedom is something we enjoy in our diverse and multicultural country, but you obviously are ignorant in how easily that can be perverted, Germany mid 1930's ring any bells?

Perhaps your too young to remember this but during the 70's and 80's no member of the IRA political wing was allowed to have his voice herd on British TV and although you could see them their voices were dubbed over by actors.

But you keep spouting on about the American constitution.. Why?

I agree with freedom but not at the cost of racism, human rights or human lives. I hope nobody close to you is ever affected by such people, it wouldn't be a case of diddums then now would it? Ibsequious neanderthal

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

For me it means you are entitled to an opinion but you have to accept that others may disagree with it.

It doesn't mean you can say what you want about anyone.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I want to hear what everyone has to say, I don't think that people getting banned from social media for having ideas that some people don't agree with will lead to anything good, just forces people underground where their voices won't be challenged.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Freedom of speech is a paramount.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Social media really has nothing to do with freedom of speech. No conception of free speech ever forces someone else to platform your speech. If I was running a server and you came along demanding I host whatever you had to say I'd tell you to fuck off and I'd be well within my rights to. Get your own server.

Being told you're a cunt because of what you say also has nothing to do with freedom of speech. If you want to go off ranting in such a way that other people think you're a contemptible human being, they are free to say so.

Freedom of speech specifically tackles what you cannot say, on pain of punishment under law.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"If his views are so potentially dangerous that they might threaten the constitution underwhich your freedom of speech is guaranteed, then Choudary would be shown (using the United States Constitution as the prime example here) just why the first ammendment guaranteeing freedom of speech was backed up by the second ammendment and any threat he might pose would be rendered null and void."

Free speech, but shoot people whose speech you think is a threat to others?

We're on big brain time now

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By *iss_tressWoman
over a year ago

London

I may say what I like, sticks and stones and all that, but I do so knowing that my right to free speech has consequences.

I'd therefore temper my free speech to not impact negatively on my employer or family to ensure I continued to have an employer and family!

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By *iss_tressWoman
over a year ago

London

"Everyone should be held accountable for what they say. That should go without saying.

Putting an opinion forward that doesn't break any laws and isn't disrespectful against any specific group or individual should be allowed? "

Agree completely!

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By *iss_tressWoman
over a year ago

London

"All freedoms that we have will have limitations and potential consequences.

Communication is powerful. Words help to change the world. Leave the world a better place, speak responsibly.

In my opinion only (I can only speak for myself), that is a very wise and sensible reply.

I'm not advocating speaking hate or bile.

Just opinions that may differ from others but are not the majority thoughts.

Of course any kind of prejudice should be dealt with appropriately.

I'm talking about freedom of speech, not, 'Say whatever you like with no regard for others'. "

What I have found unnerving is the shutting down and hostility if you have a differing opinion.

You see it here, variations of a theme. If you are seeking x which excludes y your shallow, ic, ist...you're expected to jump on every bandwagon and heaven help you if you don't.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Hi,

Is free speech dead or is there still a place for it in the world without censorship?

Cheers,

Bloke"

I have done and made changes.

Been extreme in doing so, and put my job on the line...

Raising your head above the pulpit, isn't for the faint hearted.

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By *iss_tressWoman
over a year ago

London

I'm first generation Windrush, a child growing up in the 60s. Trust me, it wasn't nice for me.

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By *iss_tressWoman
over a year ago

London

"I think what people misunderstand is that free speech does not mean but you can break laws or that there aren't consequences.

Many people hide behind free speech to spout hate and that isn't acceptable, to bully or ridicule.

This. Also freedom of speech has never meant the right to say whatever you want, wherever you want. Nor has it ever removed the right for others to respond to what you say in a negative way. "

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By *iss_tressWoman
over a year ago

London

"Say what you want, believe what you choose, BUT be judged by it and allow others the same privilege too!

I think the big BUT is the part most ppl struggle with sadly....

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Funny how this came up today...

Headteacher has been suspended over the weekend, for speaking out on a radio show, about lazy teachers whilst lockdown is on!

I hope this lady is reinstated!

I think it's ridiculous....

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By *elshyXOMan
over a year ago

Newcastle

"Hi,

Is free speech dead or is there still a place for it in the world without censorship?

Cheers,

Bloke"

Free speech is alive & well, the only issue is people conflate ‘freedom of expression’ with ‘freedom from consequence’ & the two arent mutually exclusive. You’ll always be free to say what you like, but that doesnt mean you can say things with impunity.

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By *elshyXOMan
over a year ago

Newcastle

"Funny how this came up today...

Headteacher has been suspended over the weekend, for speaking out on a radio show, about lazy teachers whilst lockdown is on!

I hope this lady is reinstated!

I think it's ridiculous.... "

This fittingly proves my point. Freedom of speech means she’s been allowed onto radio to say exactly what she wishes to say. She has felt the consequences of that by making, what I presume to be, wholly unprofessional statements.

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By *Wman15Man
over a year ago

S Lincs

"Funny how this came up today...

Headteacher has been suspended over the weekend, for speaking out on a radio show, about lazy teachers whilst lockdown is on!

I hope this lady is reinstated!

I think it's ridiculous....

Or that she's presumed to be guilty before being proven innocent

It is frequently (I'm not referring to the head teacher or her accusations at this point) the whistleblower that suffers more than the wrongdoer

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By *iss_tressWoman
over a year ago

London

"Funny how this came up today...

Headteacher has been suspended over the weekend, for speaking out on a radio show, about lazy teachers whilst lockdown is on!

I hope this lady is reinstated!

I think it's ridiculous.... "

I personally know teachers who when shopping for their own families shop for their pupils as their parents are unable/unwilling to provide for them. I know teachers who haven't stopped working as their schools are open for key worker kids.

I'm nearly 60 and I owe all I have to three remarkable teachers, Mrs Laing, Lee and Des Etage. Two shitty ones, Messrs Rowland and Stuart should never have been anywhere near a classroom.

I didn't read the article. If she said "some" teachers, then her punishment is harsh and I think unfair. If she made a sweeping statement about all her colleagues then she'd be ineffective as a head as the working environment would be toxic and her removal appropriate.

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By *iss_tressWoman
over a year ago

London

"Funny how this came up today...

Headteacher has been suspended over the weekend, for speaking out on a radio show, about lazy teachers whilst lockdown is on!

I hope this lady is reinstated!

I think it's ridiculous....

Or that she's presumed to be guilty before being proven innocent

It is frequently (I'm not referring to the head teacher or her accusations at this point) the whistleblower that suffers more than the wrongdoer"

I was watching a programme on YouTube about a white policeman in America, ex marine, military police, sniper etc, came across as a decent man, one who you'd want in your corner, who was forced out of the police as he refused to back up a story of a colleague who shot an unarmed black man he'd already had in custody who was complying with his request.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Everyone should be held accountable for what they say. That should go without saying.

Putting an opinion forward that doesn't break any laws and isn't disrespectful against any specific group or individual should be allowed? "

It is!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Funny how this came up today...

Headteacher has been suspended over the weekend, for speaking out on a radio show, about lazy teachers whilst lockdown is on!

I hope this lady is reinstated!

I think it's ridiculous....

Or that she's presumed to be guilty before being proven innocent

It is frequently (I'm not referring to the head teacher or her accusations at this point) the whistleblower that suffers more than the wrongdoer"

But thats not a debate on freedom of speech? That's more likely to relate to breach of confidentiality within organisations and very often misrepresentation of facts.

Take a look at most spurious facts told as gospel on fab. Usually if you dig down into the details there's much information and accuracy missing. Someone decided they would share them regardless, because they liked the context. Freedom of speech....not at its best!

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By *ickDastardlyMan
over a year ago

North East

Freedom of Speech is important.

But there’s a fine line between Freedom of Speech and Hate Speech and thats huge grey area there.

We have this... awful habit in the world these days to give platforms to people who perform Hate Speech with the view that is creates a counter argument, making debates balanced.

In some cases this is true. But most of the time it’s not.

Katie Hopkins is the perfect example of this. She may have a valid point or two somewhere under the vile stuff she is spewing. But the point gets totally lost because she’s comparing Asians to disabled people or telling POC to ‘go back to their own countries.’

That’s hate speech and deserves to be censored, in my opinion.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

How is this an interesting topic? You do have freedom of speech. Doesn’t give people an excuse to be an absolute knobend though

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By *elshkinkyMan
over a year ago

south wales

"How is this an interesting topic? You do have freedom of speech. Doesn’t give people an excuse to be an absolute knobend though "

This.... saying what you think isn’t always good if it has the potential to hurt or divide. Thinking it and having the sense not to spout it is the better person for me

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"How is this an interesting topic? You do have freedom of speech. Doesn’t give people an excuse to be an absolute knobend though "

But some people are knobends? ( from my perspective of course).

"Freedom of speech is a principle that supports the freedom of an individual or a community to articulate their opinions and ideas without fear of retaliation, censorship, or legal sanction."

Who decides what should be shut down, removed, deemed offensive etc etc? Easiesr way to establish who's an unsavoury individual is to let them speak?

The last time we had a conformist, one opinion only ideology, it didn't go to well.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I want to hear what everyone has to say, I don't think that people getting banned from social media for having ideas that some people don't agree with will lead to anything good, just forces people underground where their voices won't be challenged."

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"Welsh bloke is homophobic racist mysoginisric sexist. SHOCKA. This won’t be posted so no matter. My money air good enough "

Is that your opinion of me as the original poster?

If it is then you are welcome to your opinion, however wrong I may think it is.

For anyone who is not bigoted or closed minded, I'd ask that you give everyone a chance and hear them out before judging their opinions too harshly, unless of course it is blatant hate, bile and unequality.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"How is this an interesting topic? You do have freedom of speech. Doesn’t give people an excuse to be an absolute knobend though "

So what interests you and how would your ideal world work? Everyone agrees with you or they are a knobend?

It's funny how so many can be self proclaimed 'royalty' and have followers, etc. without ever saying anything of any real substance or worth?

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By *hippy57Man
over a year ago

Chelmsford

Our for fathers,fought for free speech,and to have our own opinions,even if not politically correct,

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"How is this an interesting topic? You do have freedom of speech. Doesn’t give people an excuse to be an absolute knobend though

This.... saying what you think isn’t always good if it has the potential to hurt or divide. Thinking it and having the sense not to spout it is the better person for me

Ah, so you show loyalty/lust for another so blindly agree?

Have you ever considered that your favouritism may have a negative affect on others?

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By *acey_RedWoman
over a year ago

Liverpool

"Funny how this came up today...

Headteacher has been suspended over the weekend, for speaking out on a radio show, about lazy teachers whilst lockdown is on!

I hope this lady is reinstated!

I think it's ridiculous.... "

How has that got anything to do with freedom of speech though? She has been quite freely using hers. Nobody has stopped her from saying what she wants to say. In fact she was allowed to broadcast it on the radio.

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By *ouple in LancashireCouple
over a year ago

in Lancashire

"Our for fathers,fought for free speech,and to have our own opinions,even if not politically correct,"

If your talking ww2 (which seems to be the go to whenever an irrelevant point needs to be made about free speech and armed conflict) that was about defeating the evil that is fascism..

It didn't take place so that 75 yrs later some could try and emulate the language of those it was against..

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Freedom of speech is important, but to have the RIGHT to speak freely, comes RESPONSIBILITY.

Personally, I feel all speech should be allowed, even vile words from vile peole. There are laws agsinst speech that incites violence or is threatening. Other than this, I'm not sure it's a good thing to have "hate speech" laws, as who decides on what is classed as hate speech?

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By *othin 2 proveCouple
over a year ago

Blackpool

Yes we have freedom of speach! Just ask Maxine peake, No matter what drivel or untruths she spouts there will be no recrimination for her! Quite the opposite infact,I bet the BBC and the left wing press will using her more than ever while the likes of Germaine greer,Jk Rowling and dozens of are shut down before they have even spoken now.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Say what you want, believe what you choose, BUT be judged by it and allow others the same privilege too!

I think the big BUT is the part most ppl struggle with sadly....

This guy nailed it ^

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By *ssex_tomMan
over a year ago

Chelmsford

"Freedom of speech is important, but to have the RIGHT to speak freely, comes RESPONSIBILITY.

The snowflakes usually and those offended by just about everything...

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Yes but only if you have the intelligence to back it up

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By *ionelhutzMan
over a year ago

liverpool

"Freedom of speech is important, but to have the RIGHT to speak freely, comes RESPONSIBILITY.

The snowflakes usually and those offended by just about everything... "

How does one go about being a snowflake?

Is there a club?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Yes but only if you have the intelligence to back it up "

Who judges that?

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By *ionelhutzMan
over a year ago

liverpool

"Yes we have freedom of speach! Just ask Maxine peake, No matter what drivel or untruths she spouts there will be no recrimination for her! Quite the opposite infact,I bet the BBC and the left wing press will using her more than ever while the likes of Germaine greer,Jk Rowling and dozens of are shut down before they have even spoken now.

Erm...really?

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By *ssex_tomMan
over a year ago

Chelmsford

The cancelling of those who were often trailblazers...

What is their crime? To dare to think differently..

Ironically.. thinking differently is diversity..

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By *ionelhutzMan
over a year ago

liverpool

"Freedom of speech is important, but to have the RIGHT to speak freely, comes RESPONSIBILITY.

In 1.

I think we have fairly much got the balance right,free speech but if you promote violence its against the law.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Yes but only if you have the intelligence to back it up

Who judges that?

Difficult granted but I often find that those that shout loudest are the least informed

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By *ionelhutzMan
over a year ago

liverpool

"Our for fathers,fought for free speech,and to have our own opinions,even if not politically correct,"

Its mad how this has just been accepted as fact.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Yes but only if you have the intelligence to back it up

Who judges that?

Difficult granted but I often find that those that shout loudest are the least informed "

Exactly, I often get called an idiot by ppl who I'd consider can't make that call....

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By *ionelhutzMan
over a year ago

liverpool

"Funny how this came up today...

Headteacher has been suspended over the weekend, for speaking out on a radio show, about lazy teachers whilst lockdown is on!

I hope this lady is reinstated!

I think it's ridiculous.... "

There is often more to it when stories like this come up.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"Yes but only if you have the intelligence to back it up

Who judges that?

Difficult granted but I often find that those that shout loudest are the least informed "

Raised voices and/or aggression are usually signs of an inability or frustration to get your point across.?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Yes but only if you have the intelligence to back it up

Who judges that?

Difficult granted but I often find that those that shout loudest are the least informed

Exactly, I often get called an idiot by ppl who I'd consider can't make that call....

I can't really talk with this profile pic tbh....

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By *ssex_tomMan
over a year ago

Chelmsford

"Freedom of speech is important, but to have the RIGHT to speak freely, comes RESPONSIBILITY.

The snowflakes usually and those offended by just about everything...

How does one go about being a snowflake?

Is there a club?"

Well if there was a club house there would be a huge notice board with lots of rules banning virtually everything..

Including laughter which discriminates against those with no sense of humour..

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I think freedom of speech is abused by many as a licence to intentionally cause harm. Freedom of speech is a right but it also carries an obligation to respect others viewpoints and welfare.

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By *ionelhutzMan
over a year ago

liverpool

"Freedom of speech is important, but to have the RIGHT to speak freely, comes RESPONSIBILITY.

The snowflakes usually and those offended by just about everything...

How does one go about being a snowflake?

Is there a club?

Well if there was a club house there would be a huge notice board with lots of rules banning virtually everything..

Including laughter which discriminates against those with no sense of humour..

Sounds boss

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"The cancelling of those who were often trailblazers...

What is their crime? To dare to think differently..

Ironically.. thinking differently is diversity.. "

Hitler was a trailblazer

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

Ok, this is some FB shit brought to my attention but is pretty true :-

'Imagine you were born in 1900.

When you're 14, World War I begins and ends when you're 18 with 22 million dead.

Soon after a global pandemic, the Spanish Flu, appears, killing 50 million people. And you're alive and 20 years old.

When you're 29 you survive the global economic crisis that started with the collapse of the New York Stock Exchange, causing inflation, unemployment and famine.

When you're 33 years old the nazis come to power.

When you're 39, World War II begins and ends when you're 45 years old with a 60 million dead. In the Holocaust 6 million Jews die.

When you're 52, the Korean War begins.

When you're 64, the Vietnam War begins and ends when you're 75.

A child born in 1985 thinks his grandparents have no idea how difficult life is, but they have survived several wars and catastrophes.

Today we have all the comforts in a new world, amid a new pandemic. But we complain because we need to wear masks. We complain because we must stay confined to our homes where we have food, electricity, running water, wifi, even Netflix! None of that existed back in the day. But humanity survived those circumstances and never lost their joy of living.

A small change in our perspective can generate miracles. We should be thankful that we are alive. We should do everything we need to do to protect and help each other.'

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Ok, this is some FB shit brought to my attention but is pretty true :-

'Imagine you were born in 1900.

When you're 14, World War I begins and ends when you're 18 with 22 million dead.

Soon after a global pandemic, the Spanish Flu, appears, killing 50 million people. And you're alive and 20 years old.

When you're 29 you survive the global economic crisis that started with the collapse of the New York Stock Exchange, causing inflation, unemployment and famine.

When you're 33 years old the nazis come to power.

When you're 39, World War II begins and ends when you're 45 years old with a 60 million dead. In the Holocaust 6 million Jews die.

When you're 52, the Korean War begins.

When you're 64, the Vietnam War begins and ends when you're 75.

A child born in 1985 thinks his grandparents have no idea how difficult life is, but they have survived several wars and catastrophes.

A small change in our perspective can generate miracles. We should be thankful that we are alive. We should do everything we need to do to protect and help each other.'"

Love this

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By *othin 2 proveCouple
over a year ago

Blackpool

"Freedom of speech is important, but to have the RIGHT to speak freely, comes RESPONSIBILITY.

The snowflakes usually and those offended by just about everything...

How does one go about being a snowflake?

Is there a club?

Well if there was a club house there would be a huge notice board with lots of rules banning virtually everything..

Including laughter which discriminates against those with no sense of humour..

"
To be a snowflake the 1st rule is to be offended at not being offended. 2nd rule pant down, bend over and pull those cheeks apart. (which I'm usually a fan of) 3rd rule. Must have a very high gullibility factor. I think there are 7 more which i may add later?

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By *unkym34Man
over a year ago

London

"Hi,

Is free speech dead or is there still a place for it in the world without censorship?

Cheers,

Bloke"
we should all

Have free speech if not we may as well

Live under a dictator and have no thoughts of our own. If every one had to work for somthing and didn’t just exist on hand outs free speech would be much more the norm and you would not see all these shep jumping on the band wagon to say you can’t say this or that as it will offend x y z. Having a opinion makes us human and not allowing that opinion is as bad for humanity as any form of bullying.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"we should all

Have free speech if not we may as well

But you probably exist on handouts, unless you were born on an airplane and then thrown straight out the window over the Atlantic to fend for yourself.

Even then, you were sustained for however many months by your mother in utero.

Shaming people for seeking and accepting help is dumb and ignorant.

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By *unkym34Man
over a year ago

London

"we should all

Have free speech if not we may as well

But you probably exist on handouts, unless you were born on an airplane and then thrown straight out the window over the Atlantic to fend for yourself.

Even then, you were sustained for however many months by your mother in utero.

Shaming people for seeking and accepting help is dumb and ignorant."
I haven’t shamed anyone but we have created a culture of not bothering

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I haven’t shamed anyone but we have created a culture of not bothering "

What has that got to do with silencing Nazis?

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By *icolerobbieCouple
over a year ago

walsall

"Ok, this is some FB shit brought to my attention but is pretty true :-

'Imagine you were born in 1900.

When you're 14, World War I begins and ends when you're 18 with 22 million dead.

Soon after a global pandemic, the Spanish Flu, appears, killing 50 million people. And you're alive and 20 years old.

When you're 29 you survive the global economic crisis that started with the collapse of the New York Stock Exchange, causing inflation, unemployment and famine.

When you're 33 years old the nazis come to power.

When you're 39, World War II begins and ends when you're 45 years old with a 60 million dead. In the Holocaust 6 million Jews die.

When you're 52, the Korean War begins.

When you're 64, the Vietnam War begins and ends when you're 75.

A child born in 1985 thinks his grandparents have no idea how difficult life is, but they have survived several wars and catastrophes.

A small change in our perspective can generate miracles. We should be thankful that we are alive. We should do everything we need to do to protect and help each other.'"

Perspective is everything.

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By *unkym34Man
over a year ago

London

"Ok, this is some FB shit brought to my attention but is pretty true :-

'Imagine you were born in 1900.

When you're 14, World War I begins and ends when you're 18 with 22 million dead.

Soon after a global pandemic, the Spanish Flu, appears, killing 50 million people. And you're alive and 20 years old.

When you're 29 you survive the global economic crisis that started with the collapse of the New York Stock Exchange, causing inflation, unemployment and famine.

When you're 33 years old the nazis come to power.

When you're 39, World War II begins and ends when you're 45 years old with a 60 million dead. In the Holocaust 6 million Jews die.

When you're 52, the Korean War begins.

When you're 64, the Vietnam War begins and ends when you're 75.

A child born in 1985 thinks his grandparents have no idea how difficult life is, but they have survived several wars and catastrophes.

A small change in our perspective can generate miracles. We should be thankful that we are alive. We should do everything we need to do to protect and help each other.'

Perspective is everything. "
I have to say agree with a lot of that but not the bits about people moaning about staying at home. A lot of people already don’t have some of the things you mentioned and millions of others are set to have those things removed from them due to job loses and the highest unemployment this country has ever seen. We have protected the few at the cost of all. No one can tell you how many people have been saved or if more people would have died as there is actually nothing to base it on. What we do know is

- children’s education ruined and mental health is at the worst it has pretty much been outside of war times.

- deaths from cancer are on the rise due to cancelled / missed appointments and operations.

- diagnosed dimentia figures have increased and will continue to increase ( the single biggest killer in this country )

- diabetes’s is now on the rise

- people’s mental as well as physical health is deteriorating

- Million’s of people will lose their jobs

- job loses will result in people losing their homes, not being able to feed their children

- family’s will end up living in over crowded houses and temperory accommodation ( both these factors are already known to allow disease and viruses to be passed on easier and faster )

- more people will end up on the streets

All of the above has a negative impact on this country for years and years to come and will ultimately see hundreds of thousands of extra deaths related directly to this lockdown.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Search for "Sam Harris, making sense" and listen to his thoughts on the BLM, police violence and how the left if stiffling free speech and therefore the conversations that need to be had.

It's amazing.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Funny how this came up today...

Headteacher has been suspended over the weekend, for speaking out on a radio show, about lazy teachers whilst lockdown is on!

I hope this lady is reinstated!

I think it's ridiculous....

Or that she's presumed to be guilty before being proven innocent

It is frequently (I'm not referring to the head teacher or her accusations at this point) the whistleblower that suffers more than the wrongdoer

But thats not a debate on freedom of speech? That's more likely to relate to breach of confidentiality within organisations and very often misrepresentation of facts.

This

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By *ulfilthmentMan
over a year ago

Just around the corner

I’m all for freedom of speech, but not for freedom of insult.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Hi,

Is free speech dead or is there still a place for it in the world without censorship?

Cheers,

Bloke"

No. Freedom of speech is a rumour that has never existed. Hate speech shouldn’t be tolerated publicly. Sure think it or say it in private but I don’t think anyone has a right to publicly spew hatred

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By *ervent_fervourMan
over a year ago

Halifax

"Hi,

Is free speech dead or is there still a place for it in the world without censorship?

Cheers,

Bloke"

This is why the sensibly conceived at least) hate speech laws are in place thank goodness.

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By *ervent_fervourMan
over a year ago

Halifax

"Funny how this came up today...

Headteacher has been suspended over the weekend, for speaking out on a radio show, about lazy teachers whilst lockdown is on!

I hope this lady is reinstated!

I think it's ridiculous.... "

Bringing her profession into disrepute by slandering a profession/her staff. Pretty insulting at the least.

Plus being a crap leader. So no, she doesn't deserve her job back on that basis, but if she does, I hope she's walking a very thin tightrope.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Funny how this came up today...

Headteacher has been suspended over the weekend, for speaking out on a radio show, about lazy teachers whilst lockdown is on!

I hope this lady is reinstated!

I think it's ridiculous....

Bringing her profession into disrepute by slandering a profession/her staff. Pretty insulting at the least.

Plus being a crap leader. So no, she doesn't deserve her job back on that basis, but if she does, I hope she's walking a very thin tightrope. "

She didn’t bring her profession into disrepute - I’d argue that happened a long time ago, and was worsened by several teachers and their unions refusing to even entertain the idea of educating children and getting them back into schools.

Good on her for speaking out

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By *acey_RedWoman
over a year ago

Liverpool

"Ok, this is some FB shit brought to my attention but is pretty true :-

'Imagine you were born in 1900.

When you're 14, World War I begins and ends when you're 18 with 22 million dead.

Soon after a global pandemic, the Spanish Flu, appears, killing 50 million people. And you're alive and 20 years old.

When you're 29 you survive the global economic crisis that started with the collapse of the New York Stock Exchange, causing inflation, unemployment and famine.

When you're 33 years old the nazis come to power.

When you're 39, World War II begins and ends when you're 45 years old with a 60 million dead. In the Holocaust 6 million Jews die.

When you're 52, the Korean War begins.

When you're 64, the Vietnam War begins and ends when you're 75.

A child born in 1985 thinks his grandparents have no idea how difficult life is, but they have survived several wars and catastrophes.

A small change in our perspective can generate miracles. We should be thankful that we are alive. We should do everything we need to do to protect and help each other.'

Perspective is everything. I have to say agree with a lot of that but not the bits about people moaning about staying at home. A lot of people already don’t have some of the things you mentioned and millions of others are set to have those things removed from them due to job loses and the highest unemployment this country has ever seen. We have protected the few at the cost of all. No one can tell you how many people have been saved or if more people would have died as there is actually nothing to base it on. What we do know is

- children’s education ruined and mental health is at the worst it has pretty much been outside of war times.

- deaths from cancer are on the rise due to cancelled / missed appointments and operations.

- diagnosed dimentia figures have increased and will continue to increase ( the single biggest killer in this country )

- diabetes’s is now on the rise

- people’s mental as well as physical health is deteriorating

- Million’s of people will lose their jobs

- job loses will result in people losing their homes, not being able to feed their children

- family’s will end up living in over crowded houses and temperory accommodation ( both these factors are already known to allow disease and viruses to be passed on easier and faster )

- more people will end up on the streets

All of the above has a negative impact on this country for years and years to come and will ultimately see hundreds of thousands of extra deaths related directly to this lockdown.

Yeah my nan literally had to move to this country to escape the Nazis yet she's struggling with lockdown. Especially as her hearing is pretty poor so she struggles to hear you on the phone.

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By *unkym34Man
over a year ago

London

"Funny how this came up today...

Headteacher has been suspended over the weekend, for speaking out on a radio show, about lazy teachers whilst lockdown is on!

I hope this lady is reinstated!

I think it's ridiculous....

Bringing her profession into disrepute by slandering a profession/her staff. Pretty insulting at the least.

Plus being a crap leader. So no, she doesn't deserve her job back on that basis, but if she does, I hope she's walking a very thin tightrope.

Good on her for speaking out"
she was sacked because she spoke out and said what others think and know. She is thinking bigger picture and not just the hear and now. I personally know a few teachers who have worked really hard dureing a difficult time that has been imposed on us by a non forward thinking goverment. They have some very poor things to say about other teachers right now and 100% do not agree with those that say kids should not be at school. She should be reinstated her right to open speech has been illegally removed

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By *ecretlivesCouple
over a year ago

FABWatch HQ

Possible I missed it in thread, but people in Uk do not have freedom of speech as a right? We have acts, laws, and a judicial system - but no RIGHT to freedom of speech, unlike US, and they also have laws on the consequence of how you exercise that right. The principle of "I may not like what you say but I will defend your right to do so."

All conversation should have a right to be heard. There will be always be unpalatable opinions. It's the only way to make informed decisions - including society saying through its laws that 'We don't agree with you'. In the open and with democracy at its heart. Not the more insidious woke censorship that doesnt want hear dissent from the meme.

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By *ervent_fervourMan
over a year ago

Halifax

"Funny how this came up today...

Headteacher has been suspended over the weekend, for speaking out on a radio show, about lazy teachers whilst lockdown is on!

I hope this lady is reinstated!

I think it's ridiculous....

Bringing her profession into disrepute by slandering a profession/her staff. Pretty insulting at the least.

Plus being a crap leader. So no, she doesn't deserve her job back on that basis, but if she does, I hope she's walking a very thin tightrope.

Good on her for speaking out"

Really?

Firstly, 19 local authorities decided to ggo again st government advice back in may to reopen in June.

Secondly the head of Sage said back in May that opening schools shouldn't be done without an effective track and trace programme in place.

They're the scientist geeks, dude, yeah? You know, the experts who know what they're talking about rather than whack a mole ill shake hands with people cos that looks better I'm off to visit my mother on mother's day (oops, I've just been infected by coronavirus and may be dying) /oops no don't visit your mother on mother's day because you might, like me, nearly die or effectively kill someone close to you Johnson.

Thirdly any idiot could see that it was too early, and even worse was the wrong age groups, andd that it would be more sensible to stagger who was coming, but that wasn't entertained by the government.

Against sage advice. Again.

Oh. Amd the BMA(British Medical Association). The doctors and that. More experts I know. They said that it was too early to go back on June 1st too('teachingg unions were absolutely right to urge caution and prioritise testing before going back', and 'we cannot risk a second spike orr increase in infections').

So the teachers and unions were following Union advice based on pre eminentscientific advice.

Yyou would be an idiot to ignore that right?

You would be insanely stupid to risk spreading the disease further, more widely and at an accelerated rate right?

You wouldn't want to kill people unnecessarily, right?

So were the teachers bringing themselves into disrepute, or were the government, by ignoring all sensible scientific advice and essentially signposting that they didn't give a shit about people dying(cf care homes for instance) go way, way beyond bringing themselves into disrepute and taking decisions tantamount to manslaughter?

I'm very interested in your response.

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By *ervent_fervourMan
over a year ago

Halifax

Aand for gods sake they did 'entertain the idea of going back'.

They said they want to go back BUT..

(see above answer).

Jeez..

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By *hilloutMan
over a year ago

All over the place! Northwesr, , Southwest

Freedom of speech and expression is a cornerstone of western society. Obviously some responsibility should be exercised, but if one isn't calling for specific acts of violence against an individual, group of people or society in general it should be allowed without restrictions. If these conditions are met no one should have to fear their livelihood and in extreme cases, lives, their views.

Unfortunately, ideological zealots, particularly the hard left are pushing that any contrarian views are classified as "hate speech" and thus censured and their proponents intimidated into conforming lest they be savaged primarily through social media. This is fracturing western society and in the long term, won't end well.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Aand for gods sake they did 'entertain the idea of going back'.

They said they want to go back BUT..

(see above answer).

Jeez.. "

But they don’t want to collaborate on making it possible.

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By *ionelhutzMan
over a year ago

liverpool

"Freedom of speech and expression is a cornerstone of western society. Obviously some responsibility should be exercised, but if one isn't calling for specific acts of violence against an individual, group of people or society in general it should be allowed without restrictions. If these conditions are met no one should have to fear their livelihood and in extreme cases, lives, their views.

Whilst the hard right are going round murdering mps who they consider to be traitors.

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By *_MariusMan
over a year ago

Currently Faraway

My own example of the minutiae of free speech:

Person A: "All immigrants are benefit-scrounging vermin that should be deported."

Person B: "I am banning you from spouting your uninformed nonsense on my online platform."

Person A: "

PC police...there's no freedom of speech anymore."

As somebody else in this thread said...say what you want, but be prepared for the consequences.

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By *evil-AngelWoman
over a year ago

...

I don't think the problem is with freedom of speech.

The problem is with people who think freedom of speech is more important than being respectful and thoughtful to other people and other points of view.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"My own example of the minutiae of free speech:

Person A: "All immigrants are benefit-scrounging vermin that should be deported."

Person B: "I am banning you from spouting your uninformed nonsense on my online platform."

Person A: "

PC police...there's no freedom of speech anymore."

As somebody else in this thread said...say what you want, but be prepared for the consequences."

Indeed, but when the consequences of entering into a genuine debate about current issues result in shouts of racism and shutting down, where non exists, then free speech is indeed under threat.

Many people don't read what is written in an unbiased thoughtful way, just through the prism of their own views. It makes taking about any sensitive subject very difficult.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I don't think the problem is with freedom of speech.

The problem is with people who think freedom of speech is more important than being respectful and thoughtful to other people and other points of view. "

Yes this exactly. I was shocked how many people thought of the current race issues (which I don’t want to discuss) as a free speech issue. It’s been hijacked as an opportunity to say offensive things in opposition, and prove some kind of point about free speech and freedom of opinions being curtailed.

There’s much bigger issues at hand in the world than a persons right to be offensive. Bizarre behaviour.

(I picked that example because it’s something that really angered me, for the first time in years).

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By *reenman19Man
over a year ago

.....no......

Communication is the thing that makes us civilized, we can say what we want but we don't because we know the consequences of our actions. How many people have said that they have found someone attractive just to get them into bed, how many lie about smoking and how many bi men are actually out there?

We can never say what we want or do what we want without offending people, so either play the game or stop caring that the "world, society etc" sees you as different and hates you for it.

Bringing the sunshine...

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By *ervent_fervourMan
over a year ago

Halifax

"Aand for gods sake they did 'entertain the idea of going back'.

They said they want to go back BUT..

(see above answer).

Jeez..

But they don’t want to collaborate on making it possible.

All the unions met with government officials. After which they said their questions weren't answered.

See above above.

Next..

Do you people actually check facts before writing this stuff? Serious question.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Aand for gods sake they did 'entertain the idea of going back'.

They said they want to go back BUT..

(see above answer).

Jeez..

But they don’t want to collaborate on making it possible.

All the unions met with government officials. After which they said their questions weren't answered.

See above above.

Next..

Do you people actually check facts before writing this stuff? Serious question.

You’re very patronising and over confident for a person that has not yet told me anything I didn’t already know.

Note to you - It’s best not to make assumptions about people.

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By *ervent_fervourMan
over a year ago

Halifax

I've just corrected you on everything you've said, which might, I agree, come across as patronising.

If you knew everything I said is fact (I'm assuming?), then how can you make erroneous statements off opinion? I don't get it.

Plus you haven't justified your argument, despite me asking, whereas I've built up a fair old counter argument to your opinion.

I'm still ready to listen if you have an argument you want to explain?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I've just corrected you on everything you've said, which might, I agree, come across as patronising.

If you knew everything I said is fact (I'm assuming?), then how can you make erroneous statements off opinion? I don't get it.

Plus you haven't justified your argument, despite me asking, whereas I've built up a fair old counter argument to your opinion.

I'm still ready to listen if you have an argument you want to explain? "

Actually there are a few things in your statement that aren't correct. But then I'm not convinced you're ready to hear that you might be wrong, so.

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By *ervent_fervourMan
over a year ago

Halifax

Oh don't be coy..!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I've just corrected you on everything you've said, which might, I agree, come across as patronising.

If you knew everything I said is fact (I'm assuming?), then how can you make erroneous statements off opinion? I don't get it.

Plus you haven't justified your argument, despite me asking, whereas I've built up a fair old counter argument to your opinion.

I'm still ready to listen if you have an argument you want to explain? "

That response reads like a parody. Do you have any self awareness?

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By *_MariusMan
over a year ago

Currently Faraway

"My own example of the minutiae of free speech:

Person A: "All immigrants are benefit-scrounging vermin that should be deported."

Person B: "I am banning you from spouting your uninformed nonsense on my online platform."

Person A: "

PC police...there's no freedom of speech anymore."

As somebody else in this thread said...say what you want, but be prepared for the consequences.

Indeed, but when the consequences of entering into a genuine debate about current issues result in shouts of racism and shutting down, where non exists, then free speech is indeed under threat.

Many people don't read what is written in an unbiased thoughtful way, just through the prism of their own views. It makes taking about any sensitive subject very difficult."

I don't disgree; there are indeed many instances of nuanced debate being oppressively shut down under the false yell of "racist!"

Another example I can think of is when a person shuts people up by telling them: "You are forbidden from using the announcement 'ladies and gentlemen' in our premises because it's deeply offensive."

But hang on, I have personally interacted with some trans men and women and they DO want to be pronounced as 'gentlemen' or 'ladies', respectively. That's why they've gone through the odyssey of transitioning. If it is offensive for some, it's certainly not offensive for others.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I don't disgree; there are indeed many instances of nuanced debate being oppressively shut down under the false yell of "racist!"

Another example I can think of is when a person shuts people up by telling them: "You are forbidden from using the announcement 'ladies and gentlemen' in our premises because it's deeply offensive."

This has nothing to do with freedom of speech though, does it. Freedom of speech refers specifically to whether you are allowed to express your opinion, under law.

The people complaining about freedom of speech limits are complaining because they can be arrested for e.g. inciting attacks on minorities. It's not about being told what you can say on stage at someone else's establishment.

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By *_MariusMan
over a year ago

Currently Faraway

"I don't disgree; there are indeed many instances of nuanced debate being oppressively shut down under the false yell of "racist!"

Another example I can think of is when a person shuts people up by telling them: "You are forbidden from using the announcement 'ladies and gentlemen' in our premises because it's deeply offensive."

This has nothing to do with freedom of speech though, does it. Freedom of speech refers specifically to whether you are allowed to express your opinion, under law.

I think it has quite a bit to do with freedom of speech. It's just that it's a tiny specific example that I've used. When you use the expression 'ladies and gentlemen', whether written somewhere or orally pronounced, it is human speech...so when somebody tells you that you are not allowed to use that expression because it's deeply offensive and it reflects you are somehow discriminating on the basis of gender or whatever...it also ignores that there are some trans people who do want to be addressed as 'ladies' or 'gentlemen'. In a way, it is a shutting down of a certain type of nuanced debate.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"I don't disgree; there are indeed many instances of nuanced debate being oppressively shut down under the false yell of "racist!"

Another example I can think of is when a person shuts people up by telling them: "You are forbidden from using the announcement 'ladies and gentlemen' in our premises because it's deeply offensive."

This has nothing to do with freedom of speech though, does it. Freedom of speech refers specifically to whether you are allowed to express your opinion, under law.

That's a very sweeping statement.

Why do you dare assume to know anyone's intent? You're wrong in my case btw.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Should people have freedom of speech?

Yes.

Can others, especially social platforms take measures to censor them?

Absolutely.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"That's a very sweeping statement.

Why do you dare assume to know anyone's intent? You're wrong in my case btw. "

It really isn't. Either you don't understand what freedom of speech is, or you do understand the what it is and you're advocating rolling back current hate speech law.

People being mean to you when they perceive you as being racist has nothing to do with freedom of speech.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Funny how this came up today...

Headteacher has been suspended over the weekend, for speaking out on a radio show, about lazy teachers whilst lockdown is on!

I hope this lady is reinstated!

I think it's ridiculous....

Bringing her profession into disrepute by slandering a profession/her staff. Pretty insulting at the least.

Plus being a crap leader. So no, she doesn't deserve her job back on that basis, but if she does, I hope she's walking a very thin tightrope.

Good on her for speaking out she was sacked because she spoke out and said what others think and know. She is thinking bigger picture and not just the hear and now. I personally know a few teachers who have worked really hard dureing a difficult time that has been imposed on us by a non forward thinking goverment. They have some very poor things to say about other teachers right now and 100% do not agree with those that say kids should not be at school. She should be reinstated her right to open speech has been illegally removed "

Is this the most recent Headteacher in question from the North East? She's still under disciplinary isn't she???

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By *ssex_tomMan
over a year ago

Chelmsford

It's a bit like a middle ages witch hunt at the moment. If somebody calls a person racist or phobic then it must be true..

If enough people shout this abuse then the mud sticks....

Often it's just open debate that some from the narrow minded are not used to.

I blame the non platforming in schools and universities and closing down nonsense... There seems to be a quest for one truth at the moment and that truth is often flawed.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

You should be able to say what you want that’s what democracy is all about. If it offends people then so be it i get sick to death of people saying they are offended by something. Try and educate yourself then you wouldn’t be offended as much

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"It's a bit like a middle ages witch hunt at the moment. If somebody calls a person racist or phobic then it must be true..

If enough people shout this abuse then the mud sticks....

Often it's just open debate that some from the narrow minded are not used to.

I blame the non platforming in schools and universities and closing down nonsense... There seems to be a quest for one truth at the moment and that truth is often flawed.

No, in the middle ages they killed the people accused of being a witch.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"You should be able to say what you want that’s what democracy is all about. If it offends people then so be it i get sick to death of people saying they are offended by something. Try and educate yourself then you wouldn’t be offended as much "

Any specific examples?

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By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)

So people can say what they want unless they find something offensive, then they need to shut up and confirm?

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By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)

So people can say what they want unless they find something offensive, then they need to shut up and confirm?"

Conform

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"It's a bit like a middle ages witch hunt at the moment. If somebody calls a person racist or phobic then it must be true..

If enough people shout this abuse then the mud sticks....

Often it's just open debate that some from the narrow minded are not used to.

I blame the non platforming in schools and universities and closing down nonsense... There seems to be a quest for one truth at the moment and that truth is often flawed.

That is the inevitable consequence of post-truth aperspectival madness. It is just another polarity that needs to be worked through.

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By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)

People on all sides of an argument should be heard. If someone is offended, that's a view. That's their freedom of speech. Why are they offended? What's the difference in opinion or values? Listen, don't just denigrate or try to stifle *their* expression.

I don't know how we turn the temperature on this down, but everyone needs to speak. And engage. (This is not saying that everyone has a right to a platform of their choice. "Deplatforming" is nonsense in my view and an illegitimate extension of the principle of freedom of speech)

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By *ssex_tomMan
over a year ago

Chelmsford

It's not only being manipulated to say the 'correct thing' these days, the latest manipulation is towards people saying nothing at all. Silence is violence the placards say as well as white silence is violence.

Not only are people pressured to speak then they must adhere to the one truth... Free speech is one tji g but now we have a movement against free silence...

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"It's not only being manipulated to say the 'correct thing' these days, the latest manipulation is towards people saying nothing at all. Silence is violence the placards say as well as white silence is violence.

Not only are people pressured to speak then they must adhere to the one truth... Free speech is one tji g but now we have a movement against free silence...

It seems you still have your voice Tom.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Not only are people pressured to speak then they must adhere to the one truth... Free speech is one tji g but now we have a movement against free silence...

This is like AI poetry

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"People on all sides of an argument should be heard. If someone is offended, that's a view. That's their freedom of speech. Why are they offended? What's the difference in opinion or values? Listen, don't just denigrate or try to stifle *their* expression.

Should someone have to argue against their own genocide though? Is that "just a view" as well?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

If you’re really in favor of free speech, then you’re in favor of freedom of speech for precisely the views you despise. Otherwise, you’re not in favor of free speech.

Just be cautious of the consequences of hate.

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By *ssex_tomMan
over a year ago

Chelmsford

Not only are people pressured to speak then they must adhere to the one truth... Free speech is one tji g but now we have a movement against free silence...

It seems you still have your voice Tom."

I am a very humble man Doc but I would rather run with free foxes than hunt with the hounds controlled by the Master of the Hunt

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

There is no such thing as freedom of speech. You are restricted by rules, laws and morality. Just take a look at the forum rules

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Not only are people pressured to speak then they must adhere to the one truth... Free speech is one tji g but now we have a movement against free silence...

It seems you still have your voice Tom.

I am a very humble man Doc but I would rather run with free foxes than hunt with the hounds controlled by the Master of the Hunt"
And long may you continue to do that.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Should someone have to argue against their own genocide though? Is that "just a view" as well?"
well that is where our postmodern relativistic view of morality has ultimately led.

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By *ssex_tomMan
over a year ago

Chelmsford

Not sure what Hitler has to do with it to be fair

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By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)

Should someone have to argue against their own genocide though? Is that "just a view" as well?"

No. They shouldn't. I suppose I'm more arguing, if we're going to allow extreme bigoted views, we need to make sure that the other side isn't just dismissed as emotional weak and offended.

I'm fucking offended by genocide. If anyone isn't, then shame on them at the very least.

And shaming isn't censorship. Censure isn't a synonym.

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By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)

"There is no such thing as freedom of speech. You are restricted by rules, laws and morality. Just take a look at the forum rules

Freedom of speech is a principle which always, even under the much quoted (and I suspect misunderstood) First Amendment of the US Constitution, has limits. Where those limits are depends on the government in question.

Companies, organisations, and individuals (say someone wanting my living room as a platform) are not governments and the principle applies differently if at all.

Freedom of speech, as noted, does not mean freedom from reaction or consequences.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Not sure what Hitler has to do with it to be fair"

Frame this art piece.

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By *ssex_tomMan
over a year ago

Chelmsford

"Not sure what Hitler has to do with it to be fair

Frame this art piece."

Whenever anyone drivels on about the war it reminds me of Uncle Albert in Fools and Horses....

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By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)

It does, of course, fascinate me that one side get very upset if they're ever criticised and mistake criticism with oppression or censorship.

One side gets accused of being emotionally fragile.

They're not the same side.

Fascinating indeed.

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