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"https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-wiltshire-53132567 What do you make of the most recent discovery of 20 plus, 15 meter deep shafts near Stonehenge? How on earth did Neolithic people achieve that?" Slave labour? | |||
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"https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-wiltshire-53132567 What do you make of the most recent discovery of 20 plus, 15 meter deep shafts near Stonehenge? How on earth did Neolithic people achieve that? Slave labour?" Taking a chance there! | |||
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"https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-wiltshire-53132567 What do you make of the most recent discovery of 20 plus, 15 meter deep shafts near Stonehenge? How on earth did Neolithic people achieve that? Slave labour?" I genuinely don't know. It's one possibility. | |||
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"https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-wiltshire-53132567 What do you make of the most recent discovery of 20 plus, 15 meter deep shafts near Stonehenge? How on earth did Neolithic people achieve that? Slave labour? Taking a chance there! " I like to live on the edge | |||
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" It does begger belief. I always thought stonehenge was a bit of a disappointment, but when you look at the stones you realise how amazing it is that it was ever built. Some of the cromlechs elsewhere must have taken ingenuity. All without mechanical powered machines as far as I'm aware." I've seen various theories ranging from intervention by aliens to ropes, pulleys and a series of platforms. | |||
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"Fascinating stuff. I guess they had pretty capable engineers... they managed to build stonehenge itself after all." I don't doubt they were capable engineers and astronomers . It's the sheer achievement that impresses me, especially when it takes six weeks to get someone to put a shed up nowadays  | |||
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"So that’s where Prometheus was buried  "If you have seen the film, I mean the ship that comes out of the ground. The circle looks like a flying saucer. | |||
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"Fascinating stuff. I guess they had pretty capable engineers... they managed to build stonehenge itself after all. I don't doubt they were capable engineers and astronomers . It's the sheer achievement that impresses me, especially when it takes six weeks to get someone to put a shed up nowadays "I put up a shed with my brother once in terrible weather. Got a little fraught - we didn't speak to each other for about a fortnight afterwards. If we'd had stone age clubs and weapons on hand then I daresay one of us may not have survived so I agree - the achievement is ridiculously impressive!  | |||
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*courtesy of the useless information department* | |||
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"So that’s where Prometheus was buried
If you have seen the film, I mean the ship that comes out of the ground.
The circle looks like a flying saucer."Mr N said exactly the same thing! | |||
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"Fascinating stuff. I guess they had pretty capable engineers... they managed to build stonehenge itself after all. I don't doubt they were capable engineers and astronomers . It's the sheer achievement that impresses me, especially when it takes six weeks to get someone to put a shed up nowadays
I put up a shed with my brother once in terrible weather. Got a little fraught - we didn't speak to each other for about a fortnight afterwards. If we'd had stone age clubs and weapons on hand then I daresay one of us may not have survived so I agree - the achievement is ridiculously impressive! " | |||
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"It's not the first time the've found shafts. They found the same when they were digging to build the car park. Not sure if it's in the same place now, but there were white circles in the car park to mark where they were." I didn't know that | |||
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"Religion has always inspired great endeavour. Interesting to note, however - virtually all of what you see now at the stonehenge site was reconstructed between 1901 - 1964 with all the uprights embedded in concrete. A lot of the earlier reconstruction work was guesswork due to lack of plans or descriptions of the original layout." True. you'd think those darn neolithics would have left a plan somewhere  | |||
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"Religion has always inspired great endeavour. Interesting to note, however - virtually all of what you see now at the stonehenge site was reconstructed between 1901 - 1964 with all the uprights embedded in concrete. A lot of the earlier reconstruction work was guesswork due to lack of plans or descriptions of the original layout. True. you'd think those darn neolithics would have left a plan somewhere "At least a digital image or two would have been nice | |||
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"Religion has always inspired great endeavour. Interesting to note, however - virtually all of what you see now at the stonehenge site was reconstructed between 1901 - 1964 with all the uprights embedded in concrete. A lot of the earlier reconstruction work was guesswork due to lack of plans or descriptions of the original layout. True. you'd think those darn neolithics would have left a plan somewhere
At least a digital image or two would have been nice "Its on the bottom. Just like cooking instructions, its always on the inside of the packaging!! | |||
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"https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-wiltshire-53132567 What do you make of the most recent discovery of 20 plus, 15 meter deep shafts near Stonehenge? How on earth did Neolithic people achieve that?" Thay got a man with a digger in
or Aliens | |||
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"https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-wiltshire-53132567 What do you make of the most recent discovery of 20 plus, 15 meter deep shafts near Stonehenge? How on earth did Neolithic people achieve that?" They didn't God did it  or aliens
Or absolutely any other suggestion other than the humans at the time had most certainly evolved enough to have a very resourceful mind and communication x | |||
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"https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-wiltshire-53132567 What do you make of the most recent discovery of 20 plus, 15 meter deep shafts near Stonehenge? How on earth did Neolithic people achieve that? Slave labour? I genuinely don't know. It's one possibility. " It’s certainly one of the options. Alternatively some sort of ‘social enterprise’ where large numbers of people were motivated to put in a lot of work in the hope and expectation of some kind of reward. Whether that might be in their lifetime of or on the other side is unknown. | |||
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"Religion has always inspired great endeavour. Interesting to note, however - virtually all of what you see now at the stonehenge site was reconstructed between 1901 - 1964 with all the uprights embedded in concrete. A lot of the earlier reconstruction work was guesswork due to lack of plans or descriptions of the original layout. True. you'd think those darn neolithics would have left a plan somewhere
At least a digital image or two would have been nice
Its on the bottom. Just like cooking instructions, its always on the inside of the packaging!!" | |||
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"https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-wiltshire-53132567 What do you make of the most recent discovery of 20 plus, 15 meter deep shafts near Stonehenge? How on earth did Neolithic people achieve that? They didn't God did it or aliens
Or absolutely any other suggestion other than the humans at the time had most certainly evolved enough to have a very resourceful mind and communication x"Lol yes. I think we fail to realise that neolithic people were just like us but without the Internet. They were just as thoughtful, intelligent and resourceful and had the time to carry out labour intensive tasks | |||
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"https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-wiltshire-53132567 What do you make of the most recent discovery of 20 plus, 15 meter deep shafts near Stonehenge? How on earth did Neolithic people achieve that? Slave labour? I genuinely don't know. It's one possibility. It’s certainly one of the options. Alternatively some sort of ‘social enterprise’ where large numbers of people were motivated to put in a lot of work in the hope and expectation of some kind of reward. Whether that might be in their lifetime of or on the other side is unknown." That's what makes it endlessly fascinating to me. We just do not know | |||
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"It's not the first time the've found shafts. They found the same when they were digging to build the car park. Not sure if it's in the same place now, but there were white circles in the car park to mark where they were. I didn't know that " The whole area is filled with things that archeologists have no idea what they were used for. I did a tour of the area with a guide a few years ago. It's a fascinating place. I keep meaning to go back there but haven't got round making time for it. | |||
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There are other innovative Neolithic sites, such as Grimes Graves. A field full of Neolithic flint mines, multiple shafts dug to extract valuable and rare black flints. The great mystery is how it was discovered and by who? When you could have just as easily pick up ordinary flint off the surface.
J | |||
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"It's not the first time the've found shafts. They found the same when they were digging to build the car park. Not sure if it's in the same place now, but there were white circles in the car park to mark where they were. I didn't know that The whole area is filled with things that archeologists have no idea what they were used for. I did a tour of the area with a guide a few years ago. It's a fascinating place. I keep meaning to go back there but haven't got round making time for it. "It is fascinating | |||
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"It could have been foxes, they dig holes "I think you've cracked it Ace! | |||
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"Neolithic humans would have used antler picks and not built by aliens. I still recall my lecturer telling us that we won’t find aliens in ancient history, thus making all my Eric van Daniken books redundant.
There are other innovative Neolithic sites, such as Grimes Graves. A field full of Neolithic flint mines, multiple shafts dug to extract valuable and rare black flints. The great mystery is how it was discovered and by who? When you could have just as easily pick up ordinary flint off the surface.
J"I don't think its aliens either | |||
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"A JCB "that'll be it. | |||
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"It could have been foxes, they dig holes
I think you've cracked it Ace!"I'm not just a pretty face ya know  | |||
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"It is much smaller than I imagined and really disappointing imo.. It was a pile of higgledy piggldy stones until the army put them back were they guessed they stood.. Most foreign visitors leave disappointed " Fair enough, you don't have to be interested in it or the archaeology connected with it | |||
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Aliens, if in doubt blame aliens | |||
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"Oh this would make for a 2nd tin foil hat conversation I've heard today
Aliens, if in doubt blame aliens "I genuinely hoped for some realistic suggestions, its a subject I find endlessly fascinating. | |||
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"Not sure it's great construction..it's like what children make out of building blocks..it was probably no more than a rich merchants house with a thatched roof long since gone" its one theory Tom | |||
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"Oh this would make for a 2nd tin foil hat conversation I've heard today
Aliens, if in doubt blame aliens
I genuinely hoped for some realistic suggestions, its a subject I find endlessly fascinating."Have you researched the pyramids or Machu Picchu? I honestly don't know. If the weight of some of the stones is accurate no amount of people could move such heavy loads. But I imagine tunnels can be dug, give me a sec to view the article | |||
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"Not sure it's great construction..it's like what children make out of building blocks..it was probably no more than a rich merchants house with a thatched roof long since gone its one theory Tom" I saw a programme on it... Most logical explanation | |||
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"Oh this would make for a 2nd tin foil hat conversation I've heard today
Aliens, if in doubt blame aliens
I genuinely hoped for some realistic suggestions, its a subject I find endlessly fascinating.
Have you researched the pyramids or Machu Picchu?
I honestly don't know. If the weight of some of the stones is accurate no amount of people could move such heavy loads.
But I imagine tunnels can be dug, give me a sec to view the article "I haven't researched the pyramids or Machu Pichu. Could the stones have been lifted by a system of pulleys or levers? | |||
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"Oh this would make for a 2nd tin foil hat conversation I've heard today
Aliens, if in doubt blame aliens
I genuinely hoped for some realistic suggestions, its a subject I find endlessly fascinating.
Have you researched the pyramids or Machu Picchu?
I honestly don't know. If the weight of some of the stones is accurate no amount of people could move such heavy loads.
But I imagine tunnels can be dug, give me a sec to view the article
I haven't researched the pyramids or Machu Pichu.
Could the stones have been lifted by a system of pulleys or levers?"From the article it says that the pits were probably dug out using stone tools. As for pyramid stones, I have no idea how they lifted 2500kg+ stones to a height of over 140m. | |||
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"Oh this would make for a 2nd tin foil hat conversation I've heard today
Aliens, if in doubt blame aliens
I genuinely hoped for some realistic suggestions, its a subject I find endlessly fascinating.
Have you researched the pyramids or Machu Picchu?
I honestly don't know. If the weight of some of the stones is accurate no amount of people could move such heavy loads.
But I imagine tunnels can be dug, give me a sec to view the article
I haven't researched the pyramids or Machu Pichu.
Could the stones have been lifted by a system of pulleys or levers?
From the article it says that the pits were probably dug out using stone tools.
As for pyramid stones, I have no idea how they lifted 2500kg+ stones to a height of over 140m."we guessed that it was a combination of stone tools and intensive labour. I have no other suggestions for how the pyramids were built, it's imponderable really. The question of how and why farming began and spread is something that intrigues me too. | |||
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"Oh this would make for a 2nd tin foil hat conversation I've heard today
Aliens, if in doubt blame aliens
I genuinely hoped for some realistic suggestions, its a subject I find endlessly fascinating.
Have you researched the pyramids or Machu Picchu?
I honestly don't know. If the weight of some of the stones is accurate no amount of people could move such heavy loads.
But I imagine tunnels can be dug, give me a sec to view the article
I haven't researched the pyramids or Machu Pichu.
Could the stones have been lifted by a system of pulleys or levers?
From the article it says that the pits were probably dug out using stone tools.
As for pyramid stones, I have no idea how they lifted 2500kg+ stones to a height of over 140m.
we guessed that it was a combination of stone tools and intensive labour.
I have no other suggestions for how the pyramids were built, it's imponderable really.
The question of how and why farming began and spread is something that intrigues me too. "Well when it comes to farming I can tell you Svalbard is where it's at  .
There is no evidence of using levers or pulleys but even then the theoretical sketches of how they used levers makes no sense. Using a giant log of sorts to use as to pull the stones up. How could the log withstand such weight  | |||
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"Oh this would make for a 2nd tin foil hat conversation I've heard today
Aliens, if in doubt blame aliens
I genuinely hoped for some realistic suggestions, its a subject I find endlessly fascinating.
Have you researched the pyramids or Machu Picchu?
I honestly don't know. If the weight of some of the stones is accurate no amount of people could move such heavy loads.
But I imagine tunnels can be dug, give me a sec to view the article
I haven't researched the pyramids or Machu Pichu.
Could the stones have been lifted by a system of pulleys or levers?
From the article it says that the pits were probably dug out using stone tools.
As for pyramid stones, I have no idea how they lifted 2500kg+ stones to a height of over 140m.
we guessed that it was a combination of stone tools and intensive labour.
I have no other suggestions for how the pyramids were built, it's imponderable really.
The question of how and why farming began and spread is something that intrigues me too. "The pyramids were built during the bronze age, so hardened bronze tools would have been used to dress the stone. To remove stone blocks from the bedrock they built fires over natural fault lines, heated the stone and then poured cold water on them to free the rock. The most logical engineering hypotheses I have seen suggest that to lift the blocks they used ramps initially, then counter weights and ropes over the ongoing structure. | |||
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" The question of how and why farming began and spread is something that intrigues me too. Well when it comes to farming I can tell you Svalbard is where it's at .
There is no evidence of using levers or pulleys but even then the theoretical sketches of how they used levers makes no sense. Using a giant log of sorts to use as to pull the stones up. How could the log withstand such weight "I'll have a look at Svalbard tomorrow. I was thinking more of why people decided to stay in one place and raise crops in a far more labour intensive way than hunter gathering, the social and cultural implications of that etc. I'm all out of ideas for the pyramids. Aliens? | |||
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" The question of how and why farming began and spread is something that intrigues me too. Well when it comes to farming I can tell you Svalbard is where it's at .
There is no evidence of using levers or pulleys but even then the theoretical sketches of how they used levers makes no sense. Using a giant log of sorts to use as to pull the stones up. How could the log withstand such weight
I'll have a look at Svalbard tomorrow. I was thinking more of why people decided to stay in one place and raise crops in a far more labour intensive way than hunter gathering, the social and cultural implications of that etc.
I'm all out of ideas for the pyramids.
Aliens? "I imagine it's because farming was sustainable and reliable. The population started to increase dramatically and gathering and hunting probably wasn't feasable to keep so many people fed. | |||
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" The question of how and why farming began and spread is something that intrigues me too. Well when it comes to farming I can tell you Svalbard is where it's at .
There is no evidence of using levers or pulleys but even then the theoretical sketches of how they used levers makes no sense. Using a giant log of sorts to use as to pull the stones up. How could the log withstand such weight
I'll have a look at Svalbard tomorrow. I was thinking more of why people decided to stay in one place and raise crops in a far more labour intensive way than hunter gathering, the social and cultural implications of that etc.
I'm all out of ideas for the pyramids.
Aliens?
I imagine it's because farming was sustainable and reliable. The population started to increase dramatically and gathering and hunting probably wasn't feasable to keep so many people fed."But it wasn't sustainable or reliable. One drought or plague of locusts and you and your family starved. It was way more labour intensive too | |||
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"Religion has always inspired great endeavour. Interesting to note, however - virtually all of what you see now at the stonehenge site was reconstructed between 1901 - 1964 with all the uprights embedded in concrete. A lot of the earlier reconstruction work was guesswork due to lack of plans or descriptions of the original layout. True. you'd think those darn neolithics would have left a plan somewhere
At least a digital image or two would have been nice "They did, but the media has gone obsolete and no-one has the right playback software any more. Let's face it, if you've got data on 8 inch floppy disks you're buggered, and they are only 35 years old. When you've got a bunch of 18 foot monolith solid state drives that are 4000 years old, even if you can figure out the right voltage and power cable needed, you're never going to be able to find the right codec package... | |||
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" The question of how and why farming began and spread is something that intrigues me too. Well when it comes to farming I can tell you Svalbard is where it's at .
There is no evidence of using levers or pulleys but even then the theoretical sketches of how they used levers makes no sense. Using a giant log of sorts to use as to pull the stones up. How could the log withstand such weight
I'll have a look at Svalbard tomorrow. I was thinking more of why people decided to stay in one place and raise crops in a far more labour intensive way than hunter gathering, the social and cultural implications of that etc.
I'm all out of ideas for the pyramids.
Aliens?
I imagine it's because farming was sustainable and reliable. The population started to increase dramatically and gathering and hunting probably wasn't feasable to keep so many people fed.
But it wasn't sustainable or reliable. One drought or plague of locusts and you and your family starved. It was way more labour intensive too"Yucca
Labour was all they had back then, so I imagine it wasn't a problem | |||
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" The question of how and why farming began and spread is something that intrigues me too. Well when it comes to farming I can tell you Svalbard is where it's at .
There is no evidence of using levers or pulleys but even then the theoretical sketches of how they used levers makes no sense. Using a giant log of sorts to use as to pull the stones up. How could the log withstand such weight
I'll have a look at Svalbard tomorrow. I was thinking more of why people decided to stay in one place and raise crops in a far more labour intensive way than hunter gathering, the social and cultural implications of that etc.
I'm all out of ideas for the pyramids.
Aliens?
I imagine it's because farming was sustainable and reliable. The population started to increase dramatically and gathering and hunting probably wasn't feasable to keep so many people fed.
But it wasn't sustainable or reliable. One drought or plague of locusts and you and your family starved. It was way more labour intensive too"Actually, once the techniques were learned for selecting and domesticating the particular species of plants and animals that we can eat, along with methods for preserving and storing surplus food for seasons rather than just days, the farming lifestyle became far more reliable and sustainable than the hunter/gatherer lifestyle. Ref. "Guns, Germs and Steel - A Short History of Everybody For the Last 13,000 Years", by Jared Diamond (ISBN 0 09 930278 0), page 88. "By selecting and growing those few species of plants and animals that we can eat, so that they constitute 90% rather than 0.1% of the biomass on an acre of land, we obtain far more edible calories per acre. As a result, one acre can feed many more herders and farmers - typically 10 to 100 times more - than hunter-gatherers. That strength of brute numbers was the first of many military advantages that food producing tribes gained over hunter-gatherer tribes". | |||
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"There are other innovative Neolithic sites, such as Grimes Graves. A field full of Neolithic flint mines, multiple shafts dug to extract valuable and rare black flints. The great mystery is how it was discovered and by who? When you could have just as easily pick up ordinary flint off the surface. J" I think you’ve answered your own question. Once people Realised they needed more flint than they found casually and noticed they picked up most flint in a certain location, they probably had an exploratory dig to see if there was more further down. The rest is prehistory. | |||
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"I think it would have been easy enough to dig the shafts. They just create a stairway as they dig down. But they would fill with water. Which might be why they did it. For obvious usage. They would have needed more than one water supply. If the central area was basically a town, the wells were in a circle around it. The accuracy of the circle was probably because they could measure and it was simply a habit to be consistent, and it settled argument about it. " The chalk downs of Salisbury Plain are pretty well drained, and there’s not much evidence for actual occupation of the area at the time, just lots (and lots) of symbolic structures. | |||
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"Most of the people on here are looking for shafts lol x" This | |||
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"But why the approximate circle?" Probably because it’s pretty tricky to be more accurate over such a large distance without more modern survey kit and techniques. | |||
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"But why the approximate circle?" That was just the shape of the spaceship that landed there | |||
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"But why the approximate circle? That was just the shape of the spaceship that landed there "I know. The aliens drank mead. They used the flints to perform organ removals on the abducted. | |||
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"https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-wiltshire-53132567 What do you make of the most recent discovery of 20 plus, 15 meter deep shafts near Stonehenge? How on earth did Neolithic people achieve that?" The whole place boggles my mind. | |||
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"So that’s where Prometheus was buried
If you have seen the film, I mean the ship that comes out of the ground.
The circle looks like a flying saucer."Totally got that! | |||
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" The question of how and why farming began and spread is something that intrigues me too. Well when it comes to farming I can tell you Svalbard is where it's at .
There is no evidence of using levers or pulleys but even then the theoretical sketches of how they used levers makes no sense. Using a giant log of sorts to use as to pull the stones up. How could the log withstand such weight
I'll have a look at Svalbard tomorrow. I was thinking more of why people decided to stay in one place and raise crops in a far more labour intensive way than hunter gathering, the social and cultural implications of that etc.
I'm all out of ideas for the pyramids.
Aliens?
I imagine it's because farming was sustainable and reliable. The population started to increase dramatically and gathering and hunting probably wasn't feasable to keep so many people fed.
But it wasn't sustainable or reliable. One drought or plague of locusts and you and your family starved. It was way more labour intensive too
Actually, once the techniques were learned for selecting and domesticating the particular species of plants and animals that we can eat, along with methods for preserving and storing surplus food for seasons rather than just days, the farming lifestyle became far more reliable and sustainable than the hunter/gatherer lifestyle.
Ref. "Guns, Germs and Steel - A Short History of Everybody For the Last 13,000 Years", by Jared Diamond (ISBN 0 09 930278 0), page 88. "By selecting and growing those few species of plants and animals that we can eat, so that they constitute 90% rather than 0.1% of the biomass on an acre of land, we obtain far more edible calories per acre. As a result, one acre can feed many more herders and farmers - typically 10 to 100 times more - than hunter-gatherers. That strength of brute numbers was the first of many military advantages that food producing tribes gained over hunter-gatherer tribes". "So farming was to gain advantage over other tribes? | |||
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"https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-wiltshire-53132567 What do you make of the most recent discovery of 20 plus, 15 meter deep shafts near Stonehenge? How on earth did Neolithic people achieve that? The whole place boggles my mind. " Mine too! | |||
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"So assuming they got water from the river, they weren't needed as wells. And not deep enough anyway. They seem to be on the east and west. Possibly, By digging the pits they would clear any trees and create points at which to measure the sun? " , I can't imagine they'd need more than 20 wells fairly evenly spaced anyway. We can only guess why they dug them. | |||
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" The question of how and why farming began and spread is something that intrigues me too. Well when it comes to farming I can tell you Svalbard is where it's at .
There is no evidence of using levers or pulleys but even then the theoretical sketches of how they used levers makes no sense. Using a giant log of sorts to use as to pull the stones up. How could the log withstand such weight
I'll have a look at Svalbard tomorrow. I was thinking more of why people decided to stay in one place and raise crops in a far more labour intensive way than hunter gathering, the social and cultural implications of that etc.
I'm all out of ideas for the pyramids.
Aliens?
I imagine it's because farming was sustainable and reliable. The population started to increase dramatically and gathering and hunting probably wasn't feasable to keep so many people fed.
But it wasn't sustainable or reliable. One drought or plague of locusts and you and your family starved. It was way more labour intensive too
Actually, once the techniques were learned for selecting and domesticating the particular species of plants and animals that we can eat, along with methods for preserving and storing surplus food for seasons rather than just days, the farming lifestyle became far more reliable and sustainable than the hunter/gatherer lifestyle.
Ref. "Guns, Germs and Steel - A Short History of Everybody For the Last 13,000 Years", by Jared Diamond (ISBN 0 09 930278 0), page 88. "By selecting and growing those few species of plants and animals that we can eat, so that they constitute 90% rather than 0.1% of the biomass on an acre of land, we obtain far more edible calories per acre. As a result, one acre can feed many more herders and farmers - typically 10 to 100 times more - than hunter-gatherers. That strength of brute numbers was the first of many military advantages that food producing tribes gained over hunter-gatherer tribes".
So farming was to gain advantage over other tribes?"It wasn't specifically just to gain advantage, but that was certainly one of the bonuses from it. Farming caught on because basically it's just an easier way of living than hunter-gathering. With hunting & gathering a tribe has to be permanently on the move because there isn't enough game and food plants in one area to feed more than a small number of people. The tribe then cannot easily build up a food surplus because they have to carry everything around with them. With farming, instead of the tribe having to keep looking new places for food, they grow/breed more in their own locality than they used to be able to find by continually moving. And it uses a lot less energy to breed chickens in your own back yard than it does to run after them in the wild. There is still the danger that bad weather can cause crop failures, but because the tribe is stationary they can store wheat and dry out meat, so they have a reserve. Also, because at that time the population was much smaller, tribes could choose to live at good locations - temperate climates, riverside areas with fertile soil etc. It's only as populations grew - being able to by now having enough food - that some were forced into less favourable locations. Which then led to conflict between tribes, wars etc. On the whole though, more would live than die and humanities take over of the planet commenced... | |||
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"https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-wiltshire-53132567 What do you make of the most recent discovery of 20 plus, 15 meter deep shafts near Stonehenge? How on earth did Neolithic people achieve that? Slave labour? Taking a chance there! " Not really, we were all slaves at one point in history, no matter your colour | |||
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" The question of how and why farming began and spread is something that intrigues me too. Well when it comes to farming I can tell you Svalbard is where it's at .
There is no evidence of using levers or pulleys but even then the theoretical sketches of how they used levers makes no sense. Using a giant log of sorts to use as to pull the stones up. How could the log withstand such weight
I'll have a look at Svalbard tomorrow. I was thinking more of why people decided to stay in one place and raise crops in a far more labour intensive way than hunter gathering, the social and cultural implications of that etc.
I'm all out of ideas for the pyramids.
Aliens?
I imagine it's because farming was sustainable and reliable. The population started to increase dramatically and gathering and hunting probably wasn't feasable to keep so many people fed.
But it wasn't sustainable or reliable. One drought or plague of locusts and you and your family starved. It was way more labour intensive too
Actually, once the techniques were learned for selecting and domesticating the particular species of plants and animals that we can eat, along with methods for preserving and storing surplus food for seasons rather than just days, the farming lifestyle became far more reliable and sustainable than the hunter/gatherer lifestyle.
Ref. "Guns, Germs and Steel - A Short History of Everybody For the Last 13,000 Years", by Jared Diamond (ISBN 0 09 930278 0), page 88. "By selecting and growing those few species of plants and animals that we can eat, so that they constitute 90% rather than 0.1% of the biomass on an acre of land, we obtain far more edible calories per acre. As a result, one acre can feed many more herders and farmers - typically 10 to 100 times more - than hunter-gatherers. That strength of brute numbers was the first of many military advantages that food producing tribes gained over hunter-gatherer tribes".
So farming was to gain advantage over other tribes?
It wasn't specifically just to gain advantage, but that was certainly one of the bonuses from it. Farming caught on because basically it's just an easier way of living than hunter-gathering.
With hunting & gathering a tribe has to be permanently on the move because there isn't enough game and food plants in one area to feed more than a small number of people. The tribe then cannot easily build up a food surplus because they have to carry everything around with them.
With farming, instead of the tribe having to keep looking new places for food, they grow/breed more in their own locality than they used to be able to find by continually moving. And it uses a lot less energy to breed chickens in your own back yard than it does to run after them in the wild.
There is still the danger that bad weather can cause crop failures, but because the tribe is stationary they can store wheat and dry out meat, so they have a reserve. Also, because at that time the population was much smaller, tribes could choose to live at good locations - temperate climates, riverside areas with fertile soil etc. It's only as populations grew - being able to by now having enough food - that some were forced into less favourable locations. Which then led to conflict between tribes, wars etc. On the whole though, more would live than die and humanities take over of the planet commenced..."I think you'd probably have less time as a farmer. A hunter gatherer just gets enough food for that day then rests. Growing crops needs a lot of work as does keeping animals. Gathering food that grows wild and hunting animals just requires you to move to where they are. I think possibly that the social advantages of staying in one place appeared higher than those accrued from moving around. There was also the possibility of using any surplus as a bargaining chip. | |||
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