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"No you can't. People should learn from it instead of attempting to erase or cancel it because it doesn't fit with their current view of the world."  | |||
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"That's not true, I skived history lessons all the time." I didn’t even do history, I took home economics instead, made a lovely flan in my final year. | |||
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"That's not true, I skived history lessons all the time." I had a GF at school and she always said she would go down in history. Looking back, I know why she scored so well in history! | |||
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"You cannot live the present and hope for the future if your mind stuck in the past "Jsyz Confucius when did you join fab? | |||
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"I agree I believe some should be displayed in museums though ..." Yes me too and to preserve some of it too for future generations too see as well. | |||
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"History is very important, the bad and the good. It's how we learn to evolve "That is right it is as well and also they could learn by the mistakes as well. | |||
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"History is very important, the bad and the good. It's how we learn to evolve That is right it is as well and also they could learn by the mistakes as well." | |||
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"Different standards in different times. Slaves were a commodity. Supply and demand. There were more white slaves owned by blacks than black slaves owned by whites.pretty much every historic building in Britain was funded by the labour's of slaves or forced labour should we tear them all down and replace them with communal areas to pander to the perpetually offended kneejerk brigade? Disband the royal Navy due to press gangs in the past? " And as standards, knowledge and outlook change, we need to reevaluate what we celebrate. Would you be okay with the statue Of Jimmy Saville going back up? If not, why not? What impact does the removal of statuary have on you individually? Probably very little. But for people who walk past a statue in a place of public pre-eminence and are reminded every time they see it that the oppression and trade of their people is okay as long as the person doing it spent a few bob two hundred years ago, it’s a kick in the teeth. Nobody is calling for buildings to be torn down. What they are calling for is a reevaluation of who and what we celebrate, because as you so rightly put, the standards by which these things are evaluated have now changed, and the things they stood for are now unacceptable. | |||
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"No but you can rewrite history as Britain has done on many occasions. How many school children know of the torture of Kenyan's by the British army in the 1950's or indeed know that most of the documents relating to such events have been destroyed. The files and documents came from 37 different former colonies, and filled 200 metres of shelving. But much of the most damning material was destroyed by the government. As I say how may were taught about this at school or indeed much of Britain's other shameful past such as the Opium wars, the Boer concentration camps or the Bengal famine caused by Churchill's orders." That is right as well, so do they teach a "selective" part of the history and not all of it seems to them? | |||
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"No but you can rewrite history as Britain has done on many occasions. How many school children know of the torture of Kenyan's by the British army in the 1950's or indeed know that most of the documents relating to such events have been destroyed. The files and documents came from 37 different former colonies, and filled 200 metres of shelving. But much of the most damning material was destroyed by the government. As I say how may were taught about this at school or indeed much of Britain's other shameful past such as the Opium wars, the Boer concentration camps or the Bengal famine caused by Churchill's orders."
Said that the other day.We,or when I was at school,we not taught about the unsavoury aspects of our history.
And people believe we are somehow paragons of virtue. | |||
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"No but you can rewrite history as Britain has done on many occasions. How many school children know of the torture of Kenyan's by the British army in the 1950's or indeed know that most of the documents relating to such events have been destroyed. The files and documents came from 37 different former colonies, and filled 200 metres of shelving. But much of the most damning material was destroyed by the government. As I say how may were taught about this at school or indeed much of Britain's other shameful past such as the Opium wars, the Boer concentration camps or the Bengal famine caused by Churchill's orders." Thanks for this post. | |||
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"I've learned more about our not so glorious past in the last few days than I ever did in education. As a result I have come to the conclusion that as a country we are institutionally racist and have committed terrible atrocities in the name of the crown and advancement. Now we are not alone in this, it also happened all over Europe and slavery was going on for hundreds and thousands of years before. As nations and cultures we have celebrated this success which ultimately made a few people who found themselves at the top of society very rich. Now we can give it context, we can face this past and concentrate on the future being farmore inclusive and accepting. I am glad that I now know more about this past, it gives context to a lot of things, and has cemented a few beliefs and even had me questioning my own views and biases. I wouldn't have done the reading that I have without the incidents that have recently happened and that is sad and ignorant on my part. How often in the past have I just acceted that someone who has something named after them or has a statue deserved the honour? " Excellent post. | |||
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"All the civilisations have had slave trade and it didnt matter what race someone was." That's not true Shag | |||
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"Different standards in different times. Slaves were a commodity. Supply and demand. There were more white slaves owned by blacks than black slaves owned by whites.pretty much every historic building in Britain was funded by the labour's of slaves or forced labour should we tear them all down and replace them with communal areas to pander to the perpetually offended kneejerk brigade? Disband the royal Navy due to press gangs in the past? And as standards, knowledge and outlook change, we need to reevaluate what we celebrate. Would you be okay with the statue Of Jimmy Saville going back up? If not, why not? What impact does the removal of statuary have on you individually? Probably very little. But for people who walk past a statue in a place of public pre-eminence and are reminded every time they see it that the oppression and trade of their people is okay as long as the person doing it spent a few bob two hundred years ago, it’s a kick in the teeth. Nobody is calling for buildings to be torn down. What they are calling for is a reevaluation of who and what we celebrate, because as you so rightly put, the standards by which these things are evaluated have now changed, and the things they stood for are now unacceptable."
Society changes as we develop our understanding of the issues involved.
When I was a kid, almost everyone smoked....we know more about the true health costs of smoking now and it's it's not ok to promote it through sponsorship of sport or advertise it.
The difficulty is that history is complex. People are not good or bad, it's not conveniently simple -'black and white' but that shouldn't be an excuse not examine and re evaluate. We might not like what we find but if Germany could do that after the much mentioned war, surely we can be honest about our past as well.....or are we scared of what we will find? | |||
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"All the civilisations have had slave trade and it didnt matter what race someone was. That's not true Shag " The vikings had it, the romans and others too. | |||
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"History is yesterday the present is today and the future is tomorrow so I respect the history but live in the present day and hopefully look forward to the future. And politics or demonstrations fail to make my future any brighter so I do my best with what I have. T" History is also part of how we form our identities. One of the reasons why they're often rewritten. History can give pride to someone now to empower them in the future. | |||
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"I hear that pigeons around the country are planning a mass protest against the removal of statues. " The best comment on the whole debate yet! | |||
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"All the civilisations have had slave trade and it didnt matter what race someone was. That's not true Shag The vikings had it, the romans and others too." Lots of civilisations in the past had human sacrifice; does that make it okay? | |||
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"All the civilisations have had slave trade and it didnt matter what race someone was. That's not true Shag The vikings had it, the romans and others too. Lots of civilisations in the past had human sacrifice; does that make it okay?" No it doesnt and where did you see I said it was? | |||
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"All the civilisations have had slave trade and it didnt matter what race someone was. That's not true Shag The vikings had it, the romans and others too. Lots of civilisations in the past had human sacrifice; does that make it okay?No it doesnt and where did you see I said it was?" Your implication was that because older civilisations had slavery, it was okay that we had it. It might have been socially acceptable at the time, but that doesn’t mean that it isn’t morally repugnant now. Slavery of any kind should be challenged and called out wherever it takes place, and we shouldn’t celebrate it or glorify it with statues and place names, even if the person was acting within the accepted social norms of their time. | |||
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"I'm boycotting Ikea now because of the Viking invasions. " Werent Vikings Norwegian? | |||
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"History is the story or stories we tell about ourselves. These are constantly rewritten, shifting as evidence and perspectives change. I find it remarkable that people believe that this is an erasure of history rather than a discussion of it. A move to reprioritise. Something that happens all the time, although usually not this dramatically or publicly." This. History isn't erased with the removal of a monument. History documents the removal of the monument, and the reasons why. You can't erase history, but you can learn from it. | |||
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"All the civilisations have had slave trade and it didnt matter what race someone was. That's not true Shag The vikings had it, the romans and others too. Lots of civilisations in the past had human sacrifice; does that make it okay?No it doesnt and where did you see I said it was? Your implication was that because older civilisations had slavery, it was okay that we had it. It might have been socially acceptable at the time, but that doesn’t mean that it isn’t morally repugnant now. Slavery of any kind should be challenged and called out wherever it takes place, and we shouldn’t celebrate it or glorify it with statues and place names, even if the person was acting within the accepted social norms of their time. " No I never hinted that it was ok. I was just stating fact that it wasnt just one race who was a slave in the older civilisations. | |||
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"Why everyone is in an uproar over our history is beyond me. Slavery is still with us with the factories lining up with children paying very little, making cheap clothes that we all buy....human traffickers still exist...etc. So why are we not doing something about this instead of wasting our time with what happened in our past that we can not change "In my opinion the two are directly connected Sadly the truth and the message is lost Without a doubt the west has a great problem with racism Racism in all its guises and is responsible for poor work conditions across the world However racism based upon skin colour is one of the top symptoms of this disease There has just been a trigger The statue pulling of the most obscene and controversial slave trader was part of the natural protest to highlight the matter However now it seems everyone is missing the point obsessing with statues buildings and streets It's gone too far the point is lost the fight by good people to reduce racism and modern slavery has been retarded by decades  | |||
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"Removing a statue doesn’t erase history. Without historical context and explanation (which most statues don’t have) all they are is a tacit acceptance that whoever the statue is of - and what they did, good or bad - is worthy of celebration. Placed in a museum and given appropriate historical context? Fantastic. Left up as a constant reminder that being a slaver And causing abject misery for 80,000+ people (for instance) is okay as long as you throw a few quid around in your home? Less okay." | |||
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"All the civilisations have had slave trade and it didnt matter what race someone was." this is some what a fallacy and the concept of race did not exsis until it was introduced by white European to class them self as the superior race, civilisations enslaved other tribes people that they were at war with. The European slave trade was based a fallacy that black were no better than animals and were fair game to do as they pleased | |||
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"Think it’s like therapy, you don’t erase or deny history you come to terms with it, try to understand it. You don’t celebrate and honour the fuck ups of the past though " YES. Yes this exactly this. We look at the evidence. We interpret. We reinterpret. We find our place in it. We understand ourselves. We understand how or why people do things, hopefully become better. | |||
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"No matter how many statues or books someone removes you cant escape what have happened, what is your view on it?" The whole point of removing the statues is that we shouldn't be "Celebrating" slave traders, racists and other unsavory characters. Many of these memorials to dead tyrants should be in museum with other representations of history. Unfortunately things are not as "Black & White" as social media would like. Take Winston Churchill for example, he was without doubt a generally unpleasant person. He was racist, his policies directly created a famine in India which around three MILLION died. Churchill said "it's their own fault for breeding like rabits" and described the famine as "Merrily culling the population". In Kenya, he believed that the fertile farm land should belong to the white "settlers" and had 150,000 Kenyans moved into "detention camps" where they were subject to horrendous treatment. On the other hand he was instrumental in the defeat of the nazis in WW2 and for that reason we celebrate him. On the same note, Jimmy Savile raised millions for charity and was a much loved TV personality... until he wasn't. So why are there no statues for him? When his activities were discovered people wanted his knighthood rescinded, but surely the acts that earned him that knighthood still happened and deserved to be celebrated? My opinion is that people are capable of doing both good and bad, they are not mutually exclusive. The good things should be celebrated but the bad stuff should be known too. A lot has been said in the last couple of weeks about "erasing history" but we realistically erased much of our "less pleasant" history already. Our education system doesn't mention the British Empire and our systematic and brutal colonization of half the world... Cal | |||
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""Those who forget their history..... Are doomed to repeat it!" " | |||
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"No matter how many statues or books someone removes you cant escape what have happened, what is your view on it? The whole point of removing the statues is that we shouldn't be "Celebrating" slave traders, racists and other unsavory characters. Many of these memorials to dead tyrants should be in museum with other representations of history. Unfortunately things are not as "Black & White" as social media would like. Take Winston Churchill for example, he was without doubt a generally unpleasant person. He was racist, his policies directly created a famine in India which around three MILLION died. Churchill said "it's their own fault for breeding like rabits" and described the famine as "Merrily culling the population". In Kenya, he believed that the fertile farm land should belong to the white "settlers" and had 150,000 Kenyans moved into "detention camps" where they were subject to horrendous treatment. On the other hand he was instrumental in the defeat of the nazis in WW2 and for that reason we celebrate him. On the same note, Jimmy Savile raised millions for charity and was a much loved TV personality... until he wasn't. So why are there no statues for him? When his activities were discovered people wanted his knighthood rescinded, but surely the acts that earned him that knighthood still happened and deserved to be celebrated? My opinion is that people are capable of doing both good and bad, they are not mutually exclusive. The good things should be celebrated but the bad stuff should be known too. A lot has been said in the last couple of weeks about "erasing history" but we realistically erased much of our "less pleasant" history already. Our education system doesn't mention the British Empire and our systematic and brutal colonization of half the world... Cal" Definitely. | |||
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"No matter how many statues or books someone removes you cant escape what have happened, what is your view on it? The whole point of removing the statues is that we shouldn't be "Celebrating" slave traders, racists and other unsavory characters. Many of these memorials to dead tyrants should be in museum with other representations of history. Unfortunately things are not as "Black & White" as social media would like. Take Winston Churchill for example, he was without doubt a generally unpleasant person. He was racist, his policies directly created a famine in India which around three MILLION died. Churchill said "it's their own fault for breeding like rabits" and described the famine as "Merrily culling the population". In Kenya, he believed that the fertile farm land should belong to the white "settlers" and had 150,000 Kenyans moved into "detention camps" where they were subject to horrendous treatment. On the other hand he was instrumental in the defeat of the nazis in WW2 and for that reason we celebrate him. On the same note, Jimmy Savile raised millions for charity and was a much loved TV personality... until he wasn't. So why are there no statues for him? When his activities were discovered people wanted his knighthood rescinded, but surely the acts that earned him that knighthood still happened and deserved to be celebrated? My opinion is that people are capable of doing both good and bad, they are not mutually exclusive. The good things should be celebrated but the bad stuff should be known too. A lot has been said in the last couple of weeks about "erasing history" but we realistically erased much of our "less pleasant" history already. Our education system doesn't mention the British Empire and our systematic and brutal colonization of half the world... Cal" | |||
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"Every civilization in history has had a chequered past and we shouldn't forget that otherwise it can't inform a future we would rather have. In Germany some buildings are left with the ravages of war still showing inflicted on them. This is to make sure no one forgets and can see the transformation that's occurred since then." Yes. We discuss. We take different perspectives into account. We appreciate the different impact history has had on people. Where there are ongoing ill effects, we examine how to improve. We have multiple narratives and we take multiple perspectives into account, not just those that make us feel good. | |||
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"Yes but all history pre 2020 will be the none covid era and banned as a subject. anything pre 2020 will have to be demolished and replaced with nothing so it doesn't offend anyone...museums must all close and exhibits destroyed, all historic buildings must be earmarked for demolition and replacement. No symbols of religion culture or such will be allowed again in case it offends, The new British flag will be totally opaque. No restaurant will be allowed to advertise the origin of their cuisine and will be given numerical names. All streets will be given an alphanumeric name. Cities, towns and villages and areas within will be known only by their postcodes.." This is hilarious satire. I love it. | |||
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"All the civilisations have had slave trade and it didnt matter what race someone was. this is some what a fallacy and the concept of race did not exsis until it was introduced by white European to class them self as the superior race, civilisations enslaved other tribes people that they were at war with. The European slave trade was based a fallacy that black were no better than animals and were fair game to do as they pleased" Whilst I largely agree with the sentiment of your post, I think you need to read your history a little better. Particularly that of Mesopotamia and the Ottoman empire. Theres examples of slavery being banned in Europe as far back as 1416? Is slavery the root of racism in modern day society? I doubt it personally. It's down to vile individuals,ignorance, lack of understanding and the darker side of human behaviour. | |||
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"All the civilisations have had slave trade and it didnt matter what race someone was. this is some what a fallacy and the concept of race did not exsis until it was introduced by white European to class them self as the superior race, civilisations enslaved other tribes people that they were at war with. The European slave trade was based a fallacy that black were no better than animals and were fair game to do as they pleased Whilst I largely agree with the sentiment of your post, I think you need to read your history a little better. Particularly that of Mesopotamia and the Ottoman empire. Theres examples of slavery being banned in Europe as far back as 1416? Is slavery the root of racism in modern day society? I doubt it personally. It's down to vile individuals,ignorance, lack of understanding and the darker side of human behaviour." Racism (and other bigotry) comes down, it seems to me, to identity. Who am I? Who am I not? Who are "safe" people and not? Like any instinct it has merit but needs a cognitive override. Like any instinct it can overpower cognitive override. But we need to fight it. | |||
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"Yes but all history pre 2020 will be the none covid era and banned as a subject. anything pre 2020 will have to be demolished and replaced with nothing so it doesn't offend anyone...museums must all close and exhibits destroyed, all historic buildings must be earmarked for demolition and replacement. No symbols of religion culture or such will be allowed again in case it offends, The new British flag will be totally opaque. No restaurant will be allowed to advertise the origin of their cuisine and will be given numerical names. All streets will be given an alphanumeric name. Cities, towns and villages and areas within will be known only by their postcodes.. This is hilarious satire. I love it." Well people want the politically correct. Thats making sure its totally politically correct...how can you have the town of MANSFIELD its sexual discrimination...Oxford is discrimination against sheep cows etc..lets go the whole hog...no religion no history, no culture allowed. start with a blank canvas..forced relocation so society becomes totally random and mixed (ie no china town no single ethnic areas allowed...every dwelling must be the same, so it doesnt discriminate between rich and poor. Everyone must shave their heads so it doesn't make folically challenged people suffer..where will we stop... | |||
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"Yes but all history pre 2020 will be the none covid era and banned as a subject. anything pre 2020 will have to be demolished and replaced with nothing so it doesn't offend anyone...museums must all close and exhibits destroyed, all historic buildings must be earmarked for demolition and replacement. No symbols of religion culture or such will be allowed again in case it offends, The new British flag will be totally opaque. No restaurant will be allowed to advertise the origin of their cuisine and will be given numerical names. All streets will be given an alphanumeric name. Cities, towns and villages and areas within will be known only by their postcodes.. This is hilarious satire. I love it. Well people want the politically correct. Thats making sure its totally politically correct...how can you have the town of MANSFIELD its sexual discrimination...Oxford is discrimination against sheep cows etc..lets go the whole hog...no religion no history, no culture allowed. start with a blank canvas..forced relocation so society becomes totally random and mixed (ie no china town no single ethnic areas allowed...every dwelling must be the same, so it doesnt discriminate between rich and poor. Everyone must shave their heads so it doesn't make folically challenged people suffer..where will we stop..." Oh. It's not satire. Oh dear  | |||
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"Think it’s like therapy, you don’t erase or deny history you come to terms with it, try to understand it. You don’t celebrate and honour the fuck ups of the past though " | |||
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"There's a nice expression that a civilised country doesn't tear out the pages of its history, it simply turns them over." I don't want to do either. What are those little marks on the side? Where did they come from? Why is that illustration like X or Y? What kind of book is it? How were things published? What might not have been published? What's the other evidence? | |||
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"Yes but all history pre 2020 will be the none covid era and banned as a subject. anything pre 2020 will have to be demolished and replaced with nothing so it doesn't offend anyone...museums must all close and exhibits destroyed, all historic buildings must be earmarked for demolition and replacement. No symbols of religion culture or such will be allowed again in case it offends, The new British flag will be totally opaque. No restaurant will be allowed to advertise the origin of their cuisine and will be given numerical names. All streets will be given an alphanumeric name. Cities, towns and villages and areas within will be known only by their postcodes.. This is hilarious satire. I love it. Well people want the politically correct. Thats making sure its totally politically correct...how can you have the town of MANSFIELD its sexual discrimination...Oxford is discrimination against sheep cows etc..lets go the whole hog...no religion no history, no culture allowed. start with a blank canvas..forced relocation so society becomes totally random and mixed (ie no china town no single ethnic areas allowed...every dwelling must be the same, so it doesnt discriminate between rich and poor. Everyone must shave their heads so it doesn't make folically challenged people suffer..where will we stop..." George Orwell was indeed a visionary  | |||
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""Those who forget their history..... Are doomed to repeat it!" "Best quote x | |||
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"Better to not be distracted from the main issue of racism, including black lives matter, which this side show hss sprung from. And educate citizens fully, if we can ever do something intelligently, like restoring safe education " It's certainly a side issue to the very real injustices taking place today. But it's also important to understand ourselves in a more nuanced light. Rethink how we teach history. Don't just feed the population fluffy self affirming crap. Have some respect for our intelligence and the achievements of our forebears to overcome the nastiness they lived with and were taught. | |||
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"We are the history of the future what will they think us???" A very good question. | |||
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"Think one of the most recorded songs ever gets it right Amazing grace, A man involved in the slave trade but became a big participant in the anti slavery movement, the lyrics are very poignantly certainly to the issue of the BLM movement and educating people against racism. " It is an incredible song. To break from my religious youth, though, grace is not enough. We need grace and deeds to be virtuous. | |||
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"All the civilisations have had slave trade and it didnt matter what race someone was. this is some what a fallacy and the concept of race did not exsis until it was introduced by white European to class them self as the superior race, civilisations enslaved other tribes people that they were at war with. The European slave trade was based a fallacy that black were no better than animals and were fair game to do as they pleased Whilst I largely agree with the sentiment of your post, I think you need to read your history a little better. Particularly that of Mesopotamia and the Ottoman empire. Theres examples of slavery being banned in Europe as far back as 1416? Is slavery the root of racism in modern day society? I doubt it personally. It's down to vile individuals,ignorance, lack of understanding and the darker side of human behaviour." Mesopotamia and the Ottoman and were these not tribes? and was the concept of race known to them?.... what I was was saying is the concept of race was used to justify what was done in the, and I full aware physical slavery being band and country's and being give independence to govern themselves, but when is little known is these country's are still paying money back to those who gave them independence. I totally understand why we use the point the finger tactic of "well look what they did" when the British empire was one of the evilist in history the point the finger is olny used to darfur from the real scope | |||
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""Those who forget their history..... Are doomed to repeat it!"
Best quote x"Yes it is a good quote too | |||
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"I am British and proud of our history and empire. Winston Churchill was a great man, he wasn't a Saint who is. Would these people prefer a statue of Robert mugabe? Or David Lammy perhaps, absurd, Britain is to keen to pander to people who hate it but want what it has to offer, like cuckoos using us for their own gain. British need to wake up to reality! Our own identity and culture is under threat. " It's not. Statues, buildings, landmarks... they've been torn down historically for centuries. History preserves them with their story and the reason they were removed. National identity is formed of history, not bricks and metal. | |||
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"I am British and proud of our history and empire. Winston Churchill was a great man, he wasn't a Saint who is. Would these people prefer a statue of Robert mugabe? Or David Lammy perhaps, absurd, Britain is to keen to pander to people who hate it but want what it has to offer, like cuckoos using us for their own gain. British need to wake up to reality! Our own identity and culture is under threat. It's not. Statues, buildings, landmarks... they've been torn down historically for centuries. History preserves them with their story and the reason they were removed. National identity is formed of history, not bricks and metal." | |||
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"History should be studied in books or museums. I don't understand how any single country can be proud of their history. Every country is or was build on blood and suffering. And for someone reason people cling onto that shit and feel proud. What are you proud of, that your ancestors killed millions of people or traded them as commodity? Are you proud of how succeed your country is because you've built it breaking other people's back? Boggles my mind "Pride in history or identity can certainly be a complicated thing. I'm not proud of my country (I'm not British). I'm fond of certain cultural quirks. I try to live my values. I try to do the best I can. I acknowledge the good and the bad. I try to fight for better for everyone. | |||
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"I am British and proud of our history and empire. Winston Churchill was a great man, he wasn't a Saint who is. Would these people prefer a statue of Robert mugabe? Or David Lammy perhaps, absurd, Britain is to keen to pander to people who hate it but want what it has to offer, like cuckoos using us for their own gain. British need to wake up to reality! Our own identity and culture is under threat. It's not. Statues, buildings, landmarks... they've been torn down historically for centuries. History preserves them with their story and the reason they were removed. National identity is formed of history, not bricks and metal." Agree with some of this statement, but I feel it’s much more complex than that. History is often taught to the masses by visiting “bricks and metal”, as an example take Blenheim Palace; the ancestral home of Winston Churchill and of course the Dukes of Marlborough. How many visitors do you think it gets every year? We must remember history isn’t taught primarily in books, it’s also taught by observing what we have around us, not everyone excels in academia and learning takes many forms, especially for those who aren’t as well educated. | |||
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"History should be studied in books or museums. I don't understand how any single country can be proud of their history. Every country is or was build on blood and suffering. And for someone reason people cling onto that shit and feel proud. What are you proud of, that your ancestors killed millions of people or traded them as commodity? Are you proud of how succeed your country is because you've built it breaking other people's back? Boggles my mind
Pride in history or identity can certainly be a complicated thing. I'm not proud of my country (I'm not British). I'm fond of certain cultural quirks. I try to live my values. I try to do the best I can. I acknowledge the good and the bad. I try to fight for better for everyone."I understand the want/need to celebrate different cultures or traditions as that's what makes the world beautiful and unique but I don't understand how someone can be proud of past wars and conquests. It was a blood spill for political reasons. "Nationalism does nothing but teach you to hate people you never met, and to take pride in accomplishments you had no part in." | |||
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"History should be studied in books or museums. I don't understand how any single country can be proud of their history. Every country is or was build on blood and suffering. And for someone reason people cling onto that shit and feel proud. What are you proud of, that your ancestors killed millions of people or traded them as commodity? Are you proud of how succeed your country is because you've built it breaking other people's back? Boggles my mind
Pride in history or identity can certainly be a complicated thing. I'm not proud of my country (I'm not British). I'm fond of certain cultural quirks. I try to live my values. I try to do the best I can. I acknowledge the good and the bad. I try to fight for better for everyone.
I understand the want/need to celebrate different cultures or traditions as that's what makes the world beautiful and unique but I don't understand how someone can be proud of past wars and conquests. It was a blood spill for political reasons.
"Nationalism does nothing but teach you to hate people you never met, and to take pride in accomplishments you had no part in.""Hear hear. | |||
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"What is wrong with being proud of your nation. I am English and proud of it, and England, and its history. We should have the hymn Jerusalem as our national anthem,. Our history is not perfect but no nations is. Let us cry God for Harry England and Saint George, remember great victories like agincourt, Waterloo, trafalgar, and heroic figures like Churchill, Nelson, Wellington, Rhodes, Clive of India, general Gordon,Hector mac Donald, these should be taught in schools. " Clive of India | |||
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"What is wrong with being proud of your nation. I am English and proud of it, and England, and its history. We should have the hymn Jerusalem as our national anthem,. Our history is not perfect but no nations is. Let us cry God for Harry England and Saint George, remember great victories like agincourt, Waterloo, trafalgar, and heroic figures like Churchill, Nelson, Wellington, Rhodes, Clive of India, general Gordon,Hector mac Donald, these should be taught in schools. " I agree, but it should be warts and all, none of those on your list had a blemish free record, one of the worst being Churchill. | |||
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"What is wrong with being proud of your nation. I am English and proud of it, and England, and its history. We should have the hymn Jerusalem as our national anthem,. Our history is not perfect but no nations is. Let us cry God for Harry England and Saint George, remember great victories like agincourt, Waterloo, trafalgar, and heroic figures like Churchill, Nelson, Wellington, Rhodes, Clive of India, general Gordon,Hector mac Donald, these should be taught in schools. " Most of them are, but so should the fact that a large part of this nations wealth was due to our involvement in the vile trade of humans as a commodity.. With Hitler it was rightly called genocide so we should recognise that it was at times simply murder for some.. Btw are people happy that we only finished paying back the slavers in 2015 for their 'loss' in the 1830's.. That's our taxes to compensate the descendants of the barbarity but not a penny went to the descendants of the slaves.. | |||
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"What is wrong with being proud of your nation. I am English and proud of it, and England, and its history. We should have the hymn Jerusalem as our national anthem,. Our history is not perfect but no nations is. Let us cry God for Harry England and Saint George, remember great victories like agincourt, Waterloo, trafalgar, and heroic figures like Churchill, Nelson, Wellington, Rhodes, Clive of India, general Gordon,Hector mac Donald, these should be taught in schools. Most of them are, but so should the fact that a large part of this nations wealth was due to our involvement in the vile trade of humans as a commodity.. With Hitler it was rightly called genocide so we should recognise that it was at times simply murder for some.. Btw are people happy that we only finished paying back the slavers in 2015 for their 'loss' in the 1830's.. That's our taxes to compensate the descendants of the barbarity but not a penny went to the descendants of the slaves.. " Parts of British policy were unquestionably genocide. | |||
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"What is wrong with being proud of your nation. I am English and proud of it, and England, and its history. We should have the hymn Jerusalem as our national anthem,. Our history is not perfect but no nations is. Let us cry God for Harry England and Saint George, remember great victories like agincourt, Waterloo, trafalgar, and heroic figures like Churchill, Nelson, Wellington, Rhodes, Clive of India, general Gordon,Hector mac Donald, these should be taught in schools. Most of them are, but so should the fact that a large part of this nations wealth was due to our involvement in the vile trade of humans as a commodity.. With Hitler it was rightly called genocide so we should recognise that it was at times simply murder for some.. Btw are people happy that we only finished paying back the slavers in 2015 for their 'loss' in the 1830's.. That's our taxes to compensate the descendants of the barbarity but not a penny went to the descendants of the slaves.. Parts of British policy were unquestionably genocide." | |||
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"What is wrong with being proud of your nation. I am English and proud of it, and England, and its history. We should have the hymn Jerusalem as our national anthem,. Our history is not perfect but no nations is. Let us cry God for Harry England and Saint George, remember great victories like agincourt, Waterloo, trafalgar, and heroic figures like Churchill, Nelson, Wellington, Rhodes, Clive of India, general Gordon,Hector mac Donald, these should be taught in schools. Most of them are, but so should the fact that a large part of this nations wealth was due to our involvement in the vile trade of humans as a commodity.. With Hitler it was rightly called genocide so we should recognise that it was at times simply murder for some.. Btw are people happy that we only finished paying back the slavers in 2015 for their 'loss' in the 1830's.. That's our taxes to compensate the descendants of the barbarity but not a penny went to the descendants of the slaves.. " We pick and choose our history. | |||
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"Some of our national heroes were very troubled people, some even villains, but they are ours,remember them warts and all. Are we going to get a apology from the French, for the Norman conquest in 1066,and enslaving the Anglo saxons and depriving us of our land, and liberty, and the genocide in the North of England, for hundreds of years. Probably not lol??" But we dont remember them warts and all..that's The point. | |||
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This! if Shag hadn't done it yet | |||
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"Removing statues isnt erasing history, a statue is a celebration of an individual " And again for the people in the back. That. | |||
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"Removing a statue doesn’t erase history. Without historical context and explanation (which most statues don’t have) all they are is a tacit acceptance that whoever the statue is of - and what they did, good or bad - is worthy of celebration. Placed in a museum and given appropriate historical context? Fantastic. Left up as a constant reminder that being a slaver And causing abject misery for 80,000+ people (for instance) is okay as long as you throw a few quid around in your home? Less okay." This ^ And only this ^ Those that disagree obviously have no concept of the pain those statues etc give. Stay safe in your white privilege bubble while the world burns around you because you lack empathy with people of colour. | |||
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"No matter how many statues or books someone removes you cant escape what have happened, what is your view on it?" True | |||
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"The Spanish invaded Americas and killed the indigenous tribes. Let's kill the Spanish!!!" The yanks killed the indigenous Indians lets get rid of the americans to,we could go on for ever lol | |||
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"The Spanish invaded Americas and killed the indigenous tribes. Let's kill the Spanish!!!The yanks killed the indigenous Indians lets get rid of the americans to,we could go on for ever lol" Every single developing and emerging "nation" over history has committed some form of genocide. | |||
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"The Spanish invaded Americas and killed the indigenous tribes. Let's kill the Spanish!!!The yanks killed the indigenous Indians lets get rid of the americans to,we could go on for ever lol" I assume you also approve of the BBC erecting a bronze cast of Jimmy savile. They intend to unveil it at this years children in need after his decades of selfless charitable work  | |||
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"The Spanish invaded Americas and killed the indigenous tribes. Let's kill the Spanish!!!The yanks killed the indigenous Indians lets get rid of the americans to,we could go on for ever lol Every single developing and emerging "nation" over history has committed some form of genocide." That's my point...
Over throwing statues changes nothing. | |||
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"The Spanish invaded Americas and killed the indigenous tribes. Let's kill the Spanish!!!The yanks killed the indigenous Indians lets get rid of the americans to,we could go on for ever lol I assume you also approve of the BBC erecting a bronze cast of Jimmy savile. They intend to unveil it at this years children in need after his decades of selfless charitable work "Was it selfless though? Or was all the "charitable" work a cover for his abuse? All the "charity" in the childrens wards was his free ticket to "playing" with vulnerable children... | |||
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"The Spanish invaded Americas and killed the indigenous tribes. Let's kill the Spanish!!!The yanks killed the indigenous Indians lets get rid of the americans to,we could go on for ever lol I assume you also approve of the BBC erecting a bronze cast of Jimmy savile. They intend to unveil it at this years children in need after his decades of selfless charitable work "Is this serious? Never heard of that and cannot beleive it.... | |||
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"As we are talking history...lets start at the beginning by tearing down the pyramids....monuments to non-elected rulers, built by slaves. Then move onto the Coliseum, the Parthenon.... hey, sod it...lets just buldoze the world. OR....we could leave things where they are and replace the plaques with the whole truth....both sides. Then we can learn from the past and ensure we build a better future. All well and good putting them in museums....places generally visited by already well educated people (a bit of a generalisation...but not far off). Leaving them on public view...with context allows all to learn." "As we are talking history we should talk "real" history... Us as humans are apex predators, how about we all get wiped out and leave planet earth in its natural state of equilibrium... "Oh what's that I hear you cry" "What about the free radicals, that will cause mutations and diseases, that will come a kill all the animals and flora" "By God! I believe that you may be on to something, we are going to need a time machine" "Why" "We have to stop the big bang" | |||
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"The Spanish invaded Americas and killed the indigenous tribes. Let's kill the Spanish!!!The yanks killed the indigenous Indians lets get rid of the americans to,we could go on for ever lol I assume you also approve of the BBC erecting a bronze cast of Jimmy savile. They intend to unveil it at this years children in need after his decades of selfless charitable work
Is this serious? Never heard of that and cannot beleive it...."No that isn’t true. There is a vast difference in a statue to Jimmy Saville though and I’m not sure why his name is every brought up in this debate. I find it terribly insensitive given that his victims are alive and suffering. | |||
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"They criticise Britain and its imperial past, but its far better than the Spanish and Portuguese record. We were not perfect but being in the British empire gave nations a sense of belonging to a family which still exists today with the commonwealth. They enriched Britain economically but also in culture and ideas. I think the sense of family still exists today. The greatest failure was Ireland, and the sad legacy of that remains to this day, but hopefully it will continue to improve for all. " I'm sure that sense of worth was consolidation to the millions of people who died. | |||
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"I hear that pigeons around the country are planning a mass protest against the removal of statues. " | |||
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" I'm sure that sense of worth was consolidation to the millions of people who died." | |||
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"Here is an example. A young child is walking through town with their mother and spots a statue of say Churchill . The child asks his mother " who is that mum " . The mother then explains to the child about Britain's past , the war , etc .. The good and the not so good acts of our countries past . If the statue wasnt there , they wouldnt have asked and perhaps never learnt "Im fairly sure churchill is taught in schools. | |||
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"Here is an example. A young child is walking through town with their mother and spots a statue of say Churchill . The child asks his mother " who is that mum " . The mother then explains to the child about Britain's past , the war , etc .. The good and the not so good acts of our countries past . If the statue wasnt there , they wouldnt have asked and perhaps never learnt
Im fairly sure churchill is taught in schools.
"My parents also managed to teach me all sorts of history from places I'd never been to by showing me books, pictures, having a conversation. I can well imagine having this conversation with my hypothetical child. "This person did many great things. Can you think about what it might have felt like living in Britain during the war? How amazing his contribution was? But also, even though he did wonderful things for this country, he also did terrible things. Isn't it awful that these things happened, and imagine how it must have felt to go through that. I'm very glad that we live in modern Britain, where we've learned from the great things and the awful things that the people before us did. We stand on the shoulders of giants. How can we follow in their footsteps? What does it mean to be a good citizen or member of your community?" | |||
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"With 800,000 living slaves today, I can't help but wonder if slavery IS a big problem, there are bigger fish to fry than removing statues of people that were slave owners a long time ago. I don't like slavery or racism but these actions aren't productive to either cause. " The people of Bristol disagree. Perhaps it seems like small fish to you in Nottingham, but to us it’s important. Memorialisation of slavers is a stain on our city, and as with racism itself, we want to see these stains washed away. | |||
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"With 800,000 living slaves today, I can't help but wonder if slavery IS a big problem, there are bigger fish to fry than removing statues of people that were slave owners a long time ago. I don't like slavery or racism but these actions aren't productive to either cause. The people of Bristol disagree. Perhaps it seems like small fish to you in Nottingham, but to us it’s important. Memorialisation of slavers is a stain on our city, and as with racism itself, we want to see these stains washed away." Did they take a vote? | |||
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"With 800,000 living slaves today, I can't help but wonder if slavery IS a big problem, there are bigger fish to fry than removing statues of people that were slave owners a long time ago. I don't like slavery or racism but these actions aren't productive to either cause. The people of Bristol disagree. Perhaps it seems like small fish to you in Nottingham, but to us it’s important. Memorialisation of slavers is a stain on our city, and as with racism itself, we want to see these stains washed away." It's a symbol of the oppression which goes on. To a lesser degree, perhaps, but gee that's damning with faint praise. | |||
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"With 800,000 living slaves today, I can't help but wonder if slavery IS a big problem, there are bigger fish to fry than removing statues of people that were slave owners a long time ago. I don't like slavery or racism but these actions aren't productive to either cause. The people of Bristol disagree. Perhaps it seems like small fish to you in Nottingham, but to us it’s important. Memorialisation of slavers is a stain on our city, and as with racism itself, we want to see these stains washed away. Did they take a vote? "They took direct action. The votes of those who would object to the Colston statue’s removal have neither worth nor value. | |||
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"Winston Churchill was a great man and defender of freedom. He was not perfect, but he guided Britain through its darkest hours and brought us victory.if we had lost, do you think the nazis would allow these protests? You would have statues of Hitler, and heydrich etc. Anyone defacing his statue should be fined heavily and banged up in the local prison. " It was a world effort win and no he wouldnt allow such things there. | |||
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"In 1939 and 1940,we were on our own, and in the battle of Britain, it was his leadership that made the difference. Hitler came very close to winning, it was a miracle we survived. History could have been very different and we would probably be speaking German and have statues of the fuhrer and his gang, not Churchill and ghandi. And ghandi was a great man of peace, who used to drink his own urine apparently yuk. Takes all sorts ha haha. " I'd rather he drink it than me | |||
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"In 1939 and 1940,we were on our own, and in the battle of Britain, it was his leadership that made the difference. Hitler came very close to winning, it was a miracle we survived. History could have been very different and we would probably be speaking German and have statues of the fuhrer and his gang, not Churchill and ghandi. And ghandi was a great man of peace, who used to drink his own urine apparently yuk. Takes all sorts ha haha. " Ghandi was also a total racist when it came to the black population of his native South Africa. | |||
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"No matter how many statues or books someone removes you cant escape what have happened, what is your view on it?" I agree. If only there were buildings, open to all, that housed things such as books about history. Failing that, such sort of building that stored historic artifacts. They both seem a better option than commemorating things of which we should hang our heads. | |||
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"He may not have been perfect, but he was a great man of peace, and led India to its own identity, and the world's biggest democracy. He could have hated the British, but he chose passive resistance and we left as friends with India instead, largely due to him. " He also had some dubious sexual practices with young women. I think you have a romantic idea of how India viewed us then and now. And maybe ask Churchill if India was a friend. | |||
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"They criticise Britain and its imperial past, but its far better than the Spanish and Portuguese record. We were not perfect but being in the British empire gave nations a sense of belonging to a family which still exists today with the commonwealth. They enriched Britain economically but also in culture and ideas. I think the sense of family still exists today. The greatest failure was Ireland, and the sad legacy of that remains to this day, but hopefully it will continue to improve for all. " WTF..... was going reply, but really is whats the point, looking a most your posts, your of the ignrant is bliss mind set so ive have come to the conclusion that " you know what you know, and that is all you will ever know" | |||
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"I think more should be done to highlight how Britain abolished the slave trade. We did more than any other country to bring this practice to an end and the debt of money the UK borrowed to free slaves has only recently been paid off. As UK citizens, we've all contributed to ending the slave trade out of the money we pay in taxes to clear this debt." And not a single penny of that went to the slaves, there descendant or there countrys, the money when to those that benefited from the trade. that is like the Jews paying compensation the Germans | |||
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"No matter how many statues or books someone removes you cant escape what have happened, what is your view on it?" History should be the told the good bad and the ugly. This is what helps us move on children should be educated in schools on the bad that happened and well as the good. It will help stop division, it will help explain how this country has become what it is today "multicultural" and also explain how different communities have there way if life. I think some belong in a museum or if they a to be in public front the whole story should be explained. But we mustn't shy from history and the whole story must be told | |||
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"They criticise Britain and its imperial past, but its far better than the Spanish and Portuguese record. We were not perfect but being in the British empire gave nations a sense of belonging to a family which still exists today with the commonwealth. They enriched Britain economically but also in culture and ideas. I think the sense of family still exists today. The greatest failure was Ireland, and the sad legacy of that remains to this day, but hopefully it will continue to improve for all. WTF..... was going reply, but really is whats the point, looking a most your posts, your of the ignrant is bliss mind set so ive have come to the conclusion that " you know what you know, and that is all you will ever know"" There is alot of ignorant comments and if you knew history which you so call claim some of these views may be different | |||
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"All the civilisations have had slave trade and it didnt matter what race someone was. That's not true Shag The vikings had it, the romans and others too. Lots of civilisations in the past had human sacrifice; does that make it okay?No it doesnt and where did you see I said it was? Your implication was that because older civilisations had slavery, it was okay that we had it. It might have been socially acceptable at the time, but that doesn’t mean that it isn’t morally repugnant now. Slavery of any kind should be challenged and called out wherever it takes place, and we shouldn’t celebrate it or glorify it with statues and place names, even if the person was acting within the accepted social norms of their time. " Also, earlier civilisations didnt target a particular race to become slaves, whereas black Africans were enslaved because it was felt they were inferior and worthy only of a life of servitude. The slavery that Britain had been involved in was based on race. | |||
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"It's interesting that 100% of the posts opposing the removal of statues come from white people. If you were black and lived in a city like Bristol, where the evidence of the slave trade is all around you, you might have a very different view. " White guy from Liverpool and that period of our history is shameful when we look at it today but I'm not sure that erasing such things solves anything other than a minor pyrrhic victory for some, allows them to say yeah we won which breeds further division.. Education is key and fundamental to understanding our history in all its failings and not just the successful.. There are no easy solutions and pulling everything down or renaming every street named after someone with a dubious past doesn't tell the story.. | |||
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"It's interesting that 100% of the posts opposing the removal of statues come from white people. If you were black and lived in a city like Bristol, where the evidence of the slave trade is all around you, you might have a very different view. " These people are offended about its removal but the fact is that they cannot except that black slavery and Britain's colonization worldwide is what brought Britian the wealth it has today. It is an uncomfortable truth for some. I've noticed many, not all white people are happy to say we won the war. We won the world cup, but ignore the slave trade or dismiss it and say it had nothing to do with me. Neither did you have anything to do with the two world wars you are happy to sing about. Until slavery becomes apart of the national curriculum you will still have these blinded fools believing that black people should be grateful for being here and must shut up and accept. | |||
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"That's not true, I skived history lessons all the time. I didn’t even do history, I took home economics instead, made a lovely flan in my final year." As long as it wasn't a Ku Klux flan you'll be OK | |||
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"It's interesting that 100% of the posts opposing the removal of statues come from white people. If you were black and lived in a city like Bristol, where the evidence of the slave trade is all around you, you might have a very different view. These people are offended about its removal but the fact is that they cannot except that black slavery and Britain's colonization worldwide is what brought Britian the wealth it has today. It is an uncomfortable truth for some. I've noticed many, not all white people are happy to say we won the war. We won the world cup, but ignore the slave trade or dismiss it and say it had nothing to do with me. Neither did you have anything to do with the two world wars you are happy to sing about. Until slavery becomes apart of the national curriculum you will still have these blinded fools believing that black people should be grateful for being here and must shut up and accept. " Got to be honest that when I learned about the City of my birth (not from the education system) it did spark a debate within the family about long dead relatives who served on merchant ships.. That one of our long dead relations was complicit in the barbarity that took place upon slave ships is not something that many people want to look into.. | |||
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"No you can't. People should learn from it instead of attempting to erase or cancel it because it doesn't fit with their current view of the world." Totally agree | |||
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"It's interesting that 100% of the posts opposing the removal of statues come from white people. If you were black and lived in a city like Bristol, where the evidence of the slave trade is all around you, you might have a very different view. These people are offended about its removal but the fact is that they cannot except that black slavery and Britain's colonization worldwide is what brought Britian the wealth it has today. It is an uncomfortable truth for some. I've noticed many, not all white people are happy to say we won the war. We won the world cup, but ignore the slave trade or dismiss it and say it had nothing to do with me. Neither did you have anything to do with the two world wars you are happy to sing about. Until slavery becomes apart of the national curriculum you will still have these blinded fools believing that black people should be grateful for being here and must shut up and accept. " Totally agree. Many creative teachers of history have managed to teach about the slave trade and Britain's role in it. I think many people have completely missed the point about BLM. Its proper title should be Black Lives Matter As Much as Anyone Else's. It's not about achieving superiority but about getting equality. The "All Lives Matter" slogan is perfect for the "I'm not a racist, but..." brigade. Of course all lives matter, but no one should ignore that Black lives matter too. | |||
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"And for the record, my view is that statues of those directly involved in the slave trade should be removed. They can be kept on museums and their stories- good and bad- can be told for all to interpret for themselves. Until recently I was a primary school teacher and a history specialist. One of the topics for older children was Great Lives and Churchill was one of those covered. All aspects were covered, including the unpalatable truths. So too was John Lennon with his record of domestic violence and Nelson Mandela's support for violent struggle against apartheid. Present the facts and allow children to make their own mind up" This gives me hope. Thank you. | |||
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"It's interesting that 100% of the posts opposing the removal of statues come from white people. If you were black and lived in a city like Bristol, where the evidence of the slave trade is all around you, you might have a very different view. These people are offended about its removal but the fact is that they cannot except that black slavery and Britain's colonization worldwide is what brought Britian the wealth it has today. It is an uncomfortable truth for some. I've noticed many, not all white people are happy to say we won the war. We won the world cup, but ignore the slave trade or dismiss it and say it had nothing to do with me. Neither did you have anything to do with the two world wars you are happy to sing about. Until slavery becomes apart of the national curriculum you will still have these blinded fools believing that black people should be grateful for being here and must shut up and accept. Totally agree. Many creative teachers of history have managed to teach about the slave trade and Britain's role in it. I think many people have completely missed the point about BLM. Its proper title should be Black Lives Matter As Much as Anyone Else's. It's not about achieving superiority but about getting equality. The "All Lives Matter" slogan is perfect for the "I'm not a racist, but..." brigade. Of course all lives matter, but no one should ignore that Black lives matter too." agreed | |||
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"Did they take a vote?
They took direct action. The votes of those who would object to the Colston statue’s removal have neither worth nor value."We live in a democratic country - every vote has worth and value | |||
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"You can't judge historical figures by the politically correct standards of today. They were of their time, where does it end? I want an apology and compensation from the French for the illegal invasion and enslaving my English ancestors in 1066,reducing the English to a slave under class, and taking our land and erasing our culture. The genocide of the harrying of the North, for hundreds of years. Will we be getting a apology? I doubt it. This was a catastrophe for the English people and the invaders still have the land they took from the English. " Have you traced your ancestry back to prove you aren't descended from the Normans? The Norman Conquest wasn't a day trip you know. And it wasn't based on race. And by the way, the "English" you refer to were the Anglo Saxons who originally came from Northern Germany and invaded at the end of the Roman Empire's influence in Britain. And arguably, it wasn't a catastrophe for the English people as most people simply swapped serfdom under one lord for another Don't come with some feigned outrage about something that doesn't hurt or bother you. And if you're going to use history to back up your case, know what you're talking about. | |||
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"And if you're going to use history to back up your case, know what you're talking about." *standing ovation* | |||
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"I think more should be done to highlight how Britain abolished the slave trade. We did more than any other country to bring this practice to an end and the debt of money the UK borrowed to free slaves has only recently been paid off. As UK citizens, we've all contributed to ending the slave trade out of the money we pay in taxes to clear this debt." So black people are meant to be grateful for that? Being given liberty that was taken from them by force Slave OWNERS were compensated not slaves. | |||
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"And if you're going to use history to back up your case, know what you're talking about. *standing ovation*" This.. The faux outrage of whataboutery.. | |||
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"I think more should be done to highlight how Britain abolished the slave trade. We did more than any other country to bring this practice to an end and the debt of money the UK borrowed to free slaves has only recently been paid off. As UK citizens, we've all contributed to ending the slave trade out of the money we pay in taxes to clear this debt. So black people are meant to be grateful for that? Being given liberty that was taken from them by force Slave OWNERS were compensated not slaves." Yes let's not whitewash this. What did the slave trade do to various countries? Other forms of slavery/ treating populations as subhuman? How long did this go on? (In some cases, let's ask the people who still remember )
What did it look like to escape slavery, how did former slaves establish lives beyond that? What are the consequences down generations?
What do other countries think about our legacy? | |||
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"You can't judge historical figures by the politically correct standards of today. They were of their time, where does it end? I want an apology and compensation from the French for the illegal invasion and enslaving my English ancestors in 1066,reducing the English to a slave under class, and taking our land and erasing our culture. The genocide of the harrying of the North, for hundreds of years. Will we be getting a apology? I doubt it. This was a catastrophe for the English people and the invaders still have the land they took from the English. " But all of what you have quoted is spoke about and talked in history lessons at schools. All of what you have said is not to this day creating a racial issue regarding colour. The campaign that black lives matter is for everyone to be treated as equals and have a level playing field. Are the French still to this day killing English people??? I think you need to understand what people are fighting for, read and educate yourself my friend. The history is what has created where we are today and racism is still here. How do you tackle racism without addressing the facts. If Germany had Staues parading Hitler as a hero every Brit would say what a disgrace it is. The staues belong in museums, the truth should be told correctly. Ignorance is not bliss!! | |||
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"It's interesting that 100% of the posts opposing the removal of statues come from white people. If you were black and lived in a city like Bristol, where the evidence of the slave trade is all around you, you might have a very different view. These people are offended about its removal but the fact is that they cannot except that black slavery and Britain's colonization worldwide is what brought Britian the wealth it has today. It is an uncomfortable truth for some. I've noticed many, not all white people are happy to say we won the war. We won the world cup, but ignore the slave trade or dismiss it and say it had nothing to do with me. Neither did you have anything to do with the two world wars you are happy to sing about. Until slavery becomes apart of the national curriculum you will still have these blinded fools believing that black people should be grateful for being here and must shut up and accept. "
it's quite funny when "black" get mentioned there is an uproar, take the BLM protest on sat, a bunch of the KKK's finest turn up ready to start linchings, under the pretence that they were there to protect satutes, but how's many years on the trot has those same satutes been defaced during the May day riots, but no one ever anyone gets together to defend them.
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"If Germany had Staues parading Hitler as a hero every Brit would say what a disgrace it is. The staues belong in museums, the truth should be told correctly. Ignorance is not bliss!!" British exceptionalism. It's different you see because Britain (America, Australia) is wonderful. It's terrible when they do it. It's wonderful when we do it. This pandering self congratulatory hypocrisy is why we're in such a mess politically. Britain can do no wrong, even if it's an outrage that other places do it. | |||
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"If Germany had Staues parading Hitler as a hero every Brit would say what a disgrace it is. The staues belong in museums, the truth should be told correctly. Ignorance is not bliss!! British exceptionalism. It's different you see because Britain (America, Australia) is wonderful. It's terrible when they do it. It's wonderful when we do it. This pandering self congratulatory hypocrisy is why we're in such a mess politically. Britain can do no wrong, even if it's an outrage that other places do it." I'd have to agree with this. Though i'll say that any removal of a statue should only proceed after extensive public deliberation. In an open, democratic society anyone that takes matters into their own hands is committing vandalism and should be prosecuted accordingly | |||
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We've had a couple of calls to remove statues here in oxford. It's odd 'cause I didn't know who half of them were before.
But yeah I don't know, how far are you going back . No lonealking about taking the pyramids down right? Built by slaves ,,,, 7000yrs bc. Now here is my question. Did slavery die out in Africa after that or did it continue through till we relocated up . And remember invented it?
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