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"Fucking hell. Today needs to fucking end immediately. Can we have the late night nocturnal thread now? " Or kiss fuck and avoid  | |||
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"Fucking hell. Today needs to fucking end immediately. Can we have the late night nocturnal thread now? "  | |||
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"I'm all about campaigning for men's rights. I mean everyone knows the patriarch well and truly fucks them over. Oh no wait... "When I say "the patriarchy hurts men too" I actually mean it. I give a shit. But this "pretend to care about male suffering to stop these feminists" crap is beneath contempt. | |||
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"I'm all about campaigning for men's rights. I mean everyone knows the patriarch well and truly fucks them over. Oh no wait...
When I say "the patriarchy hurts men too" I actually mean it. I give a shit.
But this "pretend to care about male suffering to stop these feminists" crap is beneath contempt." to raise awareness of a specific issue, doesnt require the need to demonise another. Education and understanding are the only things that truly resolve long term. | |||
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"I'm all about campaigning for men's rights. I mean everyone knows the patriarch well and truly fucks them over. Oh no wait...
When I say "the patriarchy hurts men too" I actually mean it. I give a shit.
But this "pretend to care about male suffering to stop these feminists" crap is beneath contempt. to raise awareness of a specific issue, doesnt require the need to demonise another. Education and understanding are the only things that truly resolve long term."Yes. And personally my feminism encompasses male suffering. The patriarchy hurts men too. That sounds glib, but it isn't for me. But too much of this is just about shutting down discussion of the suffering women and minority groups face. And no. Enough. It's 2020. Stop it. Stop upholding the systems that harm people. Do better. | |||
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"I'm all about campaigning for men's rights. I mean everyone knows the patriarch well and truly fucks them over. Oh no wait...
When I say "the patriarchy hurts men too" I actually mean it. I give a shit.
But this "pretend to care about male suffering to stop these feminists" crap is beneath contempt. to raise awareness of a specific issue, doesnt require the need to demonise another. Education and understanding are the only things that truly resolve long term.
Yes. And personally my feminism encompasses male suffering. The patriarchy hurts men too. That sounds glib, but it isn't for me.
But too much of this is just about shutting down discussion of the suffering women and minority groups face. And no. Enough. It's 2020. Stop it. Stop upholding the systems that harm people. Do better."Feminism is a cause that supports a better way of living for all genders, all races and all classes. It supports dismantling systems of oppression. Complete solidarity  | |||
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"Fucking hell. Today needs to fucking end immediately. Can we have the late night nocturnal thread now? " 
Man I’m done | |||
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"I'm all about campaigning for men's rights. I mean everyone knows the patriarch well and truly fucks them over. Oh no wait...
When I say "the patriarchy hurts men too" I actually mean it. I give a shit.
But this "pretend to care about male suffering to stop these feminists" crap is beneath contempt. to raise awareness of a specific issue, doesnt require the need to demonise another. Education and understanding are the only things that truly resolve long term.
Yes. And personally my feminism encompasses male suffering. The patriarchy hurts men too. That sounds glib, but it isn't for me.
But too much of this is just about shutting down discussion of the suffering women and minority groups face. And no. Enough. It's 2020. Stop it. Stop upholding the systems that harm people. Do better.
Feminism is a cause that supports a better way of living for all genders, all races and all classes. It supports dismantling systems of oppression.
Complete solidarity "Us young generation get it | |||
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"To all those commenting that they dont want talk or hear about this... If you dont want to engage find another conversation you do... I think this would solve 50% of the online shitposting. The OP is has made a topic he wants to talk about and hopefully hear other views other than his own " That is right. I did that as well, it is interesting to see others view over it as well. | |||
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"To all those commenting that they dont want talk or hear about this... If you dont want to engage find another conversation you do... I think this would solve 50% of the online shitposting. The OP is has made a topic he wants to talk about and hopefully hear other views other than his own " My view, which clearly differs from the OP's, is that this is a long standing and tired, damaging technique to distract from overarching harms committed against others. That this distraction harms men who really are suffering as well as those whose suffering these "movements" want to minimise. "I'm tired of these tactics" is a legitimate view. | |||
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"I read an interesting article from an australian woman called bettina andt, to summarise it, she have been a feminist but wasnt happy about how the movement is going, she thought that it is no longer about equal rights, she is now campaigning for #mentoo to give them more rights such as over custody, what is your view over her change of thinking?" About fucking time! Third and forth wave feminism have been a disaster. I’m 100% got equal rights, but at this point we’re heading the other way and demonising a generation of young men by the sins of their grandfathers. Just to clarify, this is said by K. The mrs of the couple. X | |||
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"Shag, I'd be curious to know if you felt being a male has held you back in life or if you feel disadvantaged in anyway?" I think (just my perspective for what its worth) it's the manner of dialogue that's been the problem, not the subjects themselves. There's so much divisive content out there countering each position as opposed to addressing the deeper rooted problems individually. For ever BLM post, theres another highlighting an issue against the movement. But staying on topic, I have yet to be disadvantaged by feminism and if I'm truly honest any pressure or pain I've felt about being male have largely existed due to male created environments. I'm trying to avoid these subjects of late as they're quite difficult to discuss without being misinterpreted or degenerating into unpleasantness. I agree be nice, show empathy etc etc etc but not everyone displays those traits and only the naive can think it's that simple,hence my previous comment...education. | |||
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"Shag, I'd be curious to know if you felt being a male has held you back in life or if you feel disadvantaged in anyway? I think (just my perspective for what its worth) it's the manner of dialogue that's been the problem, not the subjects themselves. There's so much divisive content out there countering each position as opposed to addressing the deeper rooted problems individually. For ever BLM post, theres another highlighting an issue against the movement. But staying on topic, I have yet to be disadvantaged by feminism and if I'm truly honest any pressure or pain I've felt about being male have largely existed due to male created environments. I'm trying to avoid these subjects of late as they're quite difficult to discuss without being misinterpreted or degenerating into unpleasantness. I agree be nice, show empathy etc etc etc but not everyone displays those traits and only the naive can think it's that simple,hence my previous comment...education. " Divide and conquer this technique has been working for centuries. Most these debates are online and the social media business model is to keep you engaged and on the platform. Look at Facebook...they don't care what trump other political leaders say even if it is a lie. They just want you clicking the site and adverts hitting your eyeballs Charlie Kaufman (being John Malkovich) wrote something interesting 7 years and I think the world is catching up to his ideas. https://youtu.be/AQnLSifUYaI | |||
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"To all those commenting that they dont want talk or hear about this... If you dont want to engage find another conversation you do... I think this would solve 50% of the online shitposting. The OP is has made a topic he wants to talk about and hopefully hear other views other than his own " Well said. I've seen far too much of this lately. Personally, I don't know enough about this discussion to get involved in a debate, I only know what I have witnessed first-hand when it comes to the bias of child custody issues having watched how a friend was treated by the courts. But just because you don't agree with something doesn't mean you should try to shut all discussion about it down, people are entitled to their opinion, regardless of whether it matches yours or not. | |||
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"I'm all about campaigning for men's rights. I mean everyone knows the patriarch well and truly fucks them over. Oh no wait...
When I say "the patriarchy hurts men too" I actually mean it. I give a shit.
But this "pretend to care about male suffering to stop these feminists" crap is beneath contempt. to raise awareness of a specific issue, doesnt require the need to demonise another. Education and understanding are the only things that truly resolve long term.
Yes. And personally my feminism encompasses male suffering. The patriarchy hurts men too. That sounds glib, but it isn't for me.
But too much of this is just about shutting down discussion of the suffering women and minority groups face. And no. Enough. It's 2020. Stop it. Stop upholding the systems that harm people. Do better.
Feminism is a cause that supports a better way of living for all genders, all races and all classes. It supports dismantling systems of oppression.
Complete solidarity
Us young generation get it"Some of us old ones do too ya know  | |||
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"I read an interesting article from an australian woman called bettina andt, to summarise it, she have been a feminist but wasnt happy about how the movement is going, she thought that it is no longer about equal rights, she is now campaigning for #mentoo to give them more rights such as over custody, what is your view over her change of thinking? About fucking time! Third and forth wave feminism have been a disaster. I’m 100% got equal rights, but at this point we’re heading the other way and demonising a generation of young men by the sins of their grandfathers. Just to clarify, this is said by K. The mrs of the couple. X" I agree. Some feminists are taking things too far and aren’t interested in equality for both sexes. As for “custody rights” which are now known as “lives with”, the child/ren should come first before either the mother or father. | |||
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"Think the use of #mentoo is divisive. In exactly the same way as when people use all lives matter when discussing #blacklivesmatter. Feminism often deals with wanting men to take an equal share if child upbringing. So that if a child is ill it's not always the mother taking time off work, and now we have shared maternity/paternity leave. So feminists don't want a bigger share of custody. The two are two different subjects, in my opinion. And I'm not sure how feminists are bad? It's been mentioned a few times on this thread but no examples given. feminism as I understand it wants women to have equal opportunities as men. " Indeed. I clearly remember me too encompassing male victims. It's about victims silenced by power structures. It's not #metoowomenonly Men having sufficient custody is a feminist issue. What's good for the kids? What's good for female careers and division of labour? Men being seen as and being allowed to be caregivers. It's a red herring to me as an anti feminist talking point. | |||
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"Think the use of #mentoo is divisive. In exactly the same way as when people use all lives matter when discussing #blacklivesmatter. Feminism often deals with wanting men to take an equal share if child upbringing. So that if a child is ill it's not always the mother taking time off work, and now we have shared maternity/paternity leave. So feminists don't want a bigger share of custody. The two are two different subjects, in my opinion. And I'm not sure how feminists are bad? It's been mentioned a few times on this thread but no examples given. feminism as I understand it wants women to have equal opportunities as men. Indeed. I clearly remember me too encompassing male victims. It's about victims silenced by power structures. It's not #metoowomenonly Men having sufficient custody is a feminist issue. What's good for the kids? What's good for female careers and division of labour? Men being seen as and being allowed to be caregivers. It's a red herring to me as an anti feminist talking point." All of this. Agree with you both | |||
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"Shag, I'd be curious to know if you felt being a male has held you back in life or if you feel disadvantaged in anyway?" But on the other side of this coin, I have never felt disadvantaged by being female. Why would I in this country? We have the same right to vote, the same access to education and healthcare, the same opportunities with regards to employment. And yes, I understand that this is not the same in all countries, and agree that it should be. But personally, I have never felt at any stage of my life that I have been at a disadvantage by being female. | |||
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"Shag, I'd be curious to know if you felt being a male has held you back in life or if you feel disadvantaged in anyway? But on the other side of this coin, I have never felt disadvantaged by being female. Why would I in this country? We have the same right to vote, the same access to education and healthcare, the same opportunities with regards to employment. And yes, I understand that this is not the same in all countries, and agree that it should be. But personally, I have never felt at any stage of my life that I have been at a disadvantage by being female. " I have always thought this too, so i find it odd when (some) women want to be treated differently in certain social settings. It not as common now but there was time when if you went on a date the expectation was on the man to plan, transport and pay for it. And what maybe have sex at the end of the dat? It sounds like a form of prostitution to me but I'm sure others have a different opinion. 50/50 is just logical its morally feels better for everyone. As for employment I think the inequality starts when women have a baby. Quite right they take time out of work but this puts them at a disadvantage. In some cases that might 1-4 years lack of experience. Why should an employer pick a candidate with less experience? And it can even affect men if the are the chosen parent to stay home and raise a child. I think the government needs to radically think about how we help people who have children and get them back into work. Like most of these inequalities there is no simple answers and lots barriers of old ideology to wade through | |||
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"If people want to help men, there are organisations (such as ManKind) that do this in a positive way without needing to co-opt feminist movements or tear down feminism. Unfortunately there are a lot of men who don't actually care about their fellow men and just want to attack feminism. " Agreed. Well said. | |||
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"I think there is a male crisis that has been highlighted by the good work of feminism. It is time men developed a similar praxis to feminism as if we are only rowing the boat with one oar we are going round in circles." I'm more than happy to stand with men in their struggles. As long as they're not trying to drag women and feminism down. | |||
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"I think there is a male crisis that has been highlighted by the good work of feminism. It is time men developed a similar praxis to feminism as if we are only rowing the boat with one oar we are going round in circles. I'm more than happy to stand with men in their struggles. As long as they're not trying to drag women and feminism down." That’s why I said we need a similar praxis. Not instead. We need to stand together. | |||
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"I think there is a male crisis that has been highlighted by the good work of feminism. It is time men developed a similar praxis to feminism as if we are only rowing the boat with one oar we are going round in circles. I'm more than happy to stand with men in their struggles. As long as they're not trying to drag women and feminism down. That’s why I said we need a similar praxis. Not instead. We need to stand together." Could allying with feminism not be the best solution? | |||
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"I think there is a male crisis that has been highlighted by the good work of feminism. It is time men developed a similar praxis to feminism as if we are only rowing the boat with one oar we are going round in circles. I'm more than happy to stand with men in their struggles. As long as they're not trying to drag women and feminism down. That’s why I said we need a similar praxis. Not instead. We need to stand together." My feminism is about the dismantling of the patriarchy and kyriarchy and thus encompasses the men who suffer because of it. For what it's worth. | |||
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"I think there is a male crisis that has been highlighted by the good work of feminism. It is time men developed a similar praxis to feminism as if we are only rowing the boat with one oar we are going round in circles." So in agreement with you on this. Equality for all sounds so simple yet apparently so hard to achieve  | |||
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"I think there is a male crisis that has been highlighted by the good work of feminism. It is time men developed a similar praxis to feminism as if we are only rowing the boat with one oar we are going round in circles. I'm more than happy to stand with men in their struggles. As long as they're not trying to drag women and feminism down. That’s why I said we need a similar praxis. Not instead. We need to stand together. My feminism is about the dismantling of the patriarchy and kyriarchy and thus encompasses the men who suffer because of it. For what it's worth." Yes however calling what men need to do feminism isn’t necessarily useful. Young men are committing suicide at alarming rates. Why? Good male role models for young men are becoming less visible. Why? Boys are more often being brought up in single parent families by their mothers. What is the impact on them? There are serious issues to be addressed. Dealing with the issues of the kyriaechy is all part of what needs to change. Men need to be able to rethink their place in this world as the Warrior archetype, breadwinner role is dying and has left some young men with a void in terms of purpose. Male privilege rightly is being deconstructed, but men need to look deeply and discover new purpose, new ways of living. The disposability of men in society also needs to be addressed | |||
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"I think there is a male crisis that has been highlighted by the good work of feminism. It is time men developed a similar praxis to feminism as if we are only rowing the boat with one oar we are going round in circles. So in agreement with you on this. Equality for all sounds so simple yet apparently so hard to achieve "It is incredibly challenging. It is so interwoven with all the intersectional issues we are facing. We need new integral ways of thinking that can integrate the fragmentation we have created through deconstructing the structures of oppression - dominator hierarchies. | |||
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"I think everyone needs cake today "Oh Lord no, I’m trying to be good this week  | |||
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"Is this the type of conversation you would have on a first date? "I have  | |||
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"I think everyone needs cake today
Oh Lord no, I’m trying to be good this week "Strawberries and grapes for you then | |||
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"I think everyone needs cake today "Happy cakes from Amsterdam. That will definitely help these threads! | |||
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"Is this the type of conversation you would have on a first date?
I have "I have too | |||
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"Is this the type of conversation you would have on a first date?
I have "Bravo. Get a 2nd? | |||
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"I think there is a male crisis that has been highlighted by the good work of feminism. It is time men developed a similar praxis to feminism as if we are only rowing the boat with one oar we are going round in circles. So in agreement with you on this. Equality for all sounds so simple yet apparently so hard to achieve
It is incredibly challenging. It is so interwoven with all the intersectional issues we are facing.
We need new integral ways of thinking that can integrate the fragmentation we have created through deconstructing the structures of oppression - dominator hierarchies."Agreed we all need to fight oppression on all fronts together. We're trying to outgrow the restrictions and boundaries placed on us all by the hierarchy and history. It's not an easy thing but something we must all strive for. | |||
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"Is this the type of conversation you would have on a first date? "It’s perfectly normal to work out someone’s opinions on issues you’re passionate about on a first date? | |||
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"I think there is a male crisis that has been highlighted by the good work of feminism. It is time men developed a similar praxis to feminism as if we are only rowing the boat with one oar we are going round in circles. So in agreement with you on this. Equality for all sounds so simple yet apparently so hard to achieve
It is incredibly challenging. It is so interwoven with all the intersectional issues we are facing.
We need new integral ways of thinking that can integrate the fragmentation we have created through deconstructing the structures of oppression - dominator hierarchies.
Agreed we all need to fight oppression on all fronts together. We're trying to outgrow the restrictions and boundaries placed on us all by the hierarchy and history. It's not an easy thing but something we must all strive for. "Amen! | |||
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"I think there is a male crisis that has been highlighted by the good work of feminism. It is time men developed a similar praxis to feminism as if we are only rowing the boat with one oar we are going round in circles. So in agreement with you on this. Equality for all sounds so simple yet apparently so hard to achieve
It is incredibly challenging. It is so interwoven with all the intersectional issues we are facing.
We need new integral ways of thinking that can integrate the fragmentation we have created through deconstructing the structures of oppression - dominator hierarchies.
Agreed we all need to fight oppression on all fronts together. We're trying to outgrow the restrictions and boundaries placed on us all by the hierarchy and history. It's not an easy thing but something we must all strive for. "Absolutely this. | |||
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"Is this the type of conversation you would have on a first date?
I have
Bravo. Get a 2nd? "Not yet | |||
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"Is this the type of conversation you would have on a first date?
I have
Bravo. Get a 2nd?
Not yet " | |||
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"Is this the type of conversation you would have on a first date?
It’s perfectly normal to work out someone’s opinions on issues you’re passionate about on a first date?"I don't do serious. Prefer to have a laugh. My bad maybe. | |||
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"I read an interesting article from an australian woman called bettina andt, to summarise it, she have been a feminist but wasnt happy about how the movement is going, she thought that it is no longer about equal rights, she is now campaigning for #mentoo to give them more rights such as over custody, what is your view over her change of thinking? About fucking time! Third and forth wave feminism have been a disaster. I’m 100% got equal rights, but at this point we’re heading the other way and demonising a generation of young men by the sins of their grandfathers. Just to clarify, this is said by K. The mrs of the couple. X" | |||
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"Is this the type of conversation you would have on a first date?
It’s perfectly normal to work out someone’s opinions on issues you’re passionate about on a first date?
I don't do serious. Prefer to have a laugh. My bad maybe. "If people where having a conversation in a room you were not interested in... Would you interrupt it to say "hey I don't like this topic" There are lots of other topics if this one doesn't engage you | |||
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"Actually looking forward to the football threads now. " Me too and I hate football | |||
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"Actually looking forward to the football threads now. Me too and I hate football "#metoo | |||
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"Actually looking forward to the football threads now. Me too and I hate football
#metoo " | |||
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"Is this the type of conversation you would have on a first date?
It’s perfectly normal to work out someone’s opinions on issues you’re passionate about on a first date?
I don't do serious. Prefer to have a laugh. My bad maybe.
If people where having a conversation in a room you were not interested in...
Would you interrupt it to say "hey I don't like this topic"
There are lots of other topics if this one doesn't engage you "Possibly | |||
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And now with lockdown, people really have nothing else to do except stir emotions.
Go back to piecing jigsaws, building Lego houses or a model train set | |||
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"Shag, I'd be curious to know if you felt being a male has held you back in life or if you feel disadvantaged in anyway? But on the other side of this coin, I have never felt disadvantaged by being female. Why would I in this country? We have the same right to vote, the same access to education and healthcare, the same opportunities with regards to employment. And yes, I understand that this is not the same in all countries, and agree that it should be. But personally, I have never felt at any stage of my life that I have been at a disadvantage by being female. " In that case you have been incredibly lucky. When younger and blonde, I was frequently treated my men as a silly brainless girl. Especially by places such as garages. Being female it was assumed that I would work part time after becoming a mother. When I remarried, many assumed that I would want more children. Nobody makes these assumptions about men. As the the #mentoo movement and feminism. I agree with swing, and she was much more eloquent than I would be. | |||
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