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serious-help required re Cloned Credit Card

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago

My daughter has had 4000 taken fraudluently in cash transactions from her credit card .santander have told her that their cards cant be cloned and as the transactions have all taken place at her local Tesco express store they dont beleive that she hasnt made the transactions.We dont know what to do next ? please inbox me if you have any experience on this or advice ..Thank you so much

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By *ittle_brat_evie!!Woman
over a year ago

evesham

go to the financial Standards Authority if santander are not willing to look into it.

report it to the police and see if there is any cctv at the cash machines used

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"go to the financial Standards Authority if santander are not willing to look into it.

report it to the police and see if there is any cctv at the cash machines used"

Also involve BBC Watchdog....if they take interest theres nothing like media pressure. hope ya sort it !

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By *histler21Man
over a year ago

Ipswich

Has the store got any CCTV tape that may show who is taking money at the relevant times.

Hope it has been reported to the police too - they may be the ones to ask for CCTV stuff

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By *atureFem4FunWoman
over a year ago

Petts Wood

First.....is it transactions or money withdrawn from a cashpoint at the Tesco Express?

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago

its all cash withdrawals of smallish amounts taken out of the cash machine outside the store .Sometimes there have been 4 or 5 a day ..so the card has been cloned and somehow the pin number is being used ?

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By *uckscouple2007Couple
over a year ago

Bucks

only experience was getting a call from amex asking where I was as in a short space of time i was at our local Asda then at a store in Melbourne

as the technology to get from Bucks to Melbourne in a few hours hasnt yet been invented they wiped the debits

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By *uckscouple2007Couple
over a year ago

Bucks

as stated above, get on to 999 and report it - they'll help more than the 'meant well' advice in here

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By *ittle_brat_evie!!Woman
over a year ago

evesham

i cant believe that santander have un-clonable cards to be honest

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"My daughter has had 4000 taken fraudluently in cash transactions from her credit card .santander have told her that their cards cant be cloned and as the transactions have all taken place at her local Tesco express store they dont beleive that she hasnt made the transactions.We dont know what to do next ? please inbox me if you have any experience on this or advice ..Thank you so much "

seen a program on tv about this, the first thing they said is NOT to cut the card up, the chip on the card is the proof you need to prove it was not the card used to withdraw the money.

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago

police are already involved to be honest .We are waiting on a call tomorrow from Santander but from the way they were talking to my daughter today they just dont want to take responsibiliy..just wanted to know if anyone had any experience of this so happy to take any "meant well " messages

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Your best bet is to go to the loacl police station and report it there. The report will then be sent off to the bank and they have their internal investigators to look into in. Oh and cancel the card if you havent already

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By *indylou47Woman
over a year ago

BOLTON

A similar thing happened to me a couple of years ago. Fortunately it was only £20 that I noticed had come out of my account but coincidentally it was also Santander and my local Tesco Express and Santander refunded the money to my account. I agree that she should report it to the FSA and police and, as all transactions should be timed and dated, if she has any evidence that she was elsewhere when they occured, it should cast doubt that she has withdrawn the money herself. Hope it turns out ok for her. £4k is a lot of money

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

To be honest, having worked in debt recovery I side with the bank. Tht is not really consistant with fraud.

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By (user no longer on site)
Forum Mod
over a year ago


"i cant believe that santander have un-clonable cards to be honest "

I find that strange too,the technology to clone cards is aways a step ahead of the banks trying to prevent cloning

I hope the OP manages to get to the bottom of it with a good result

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

No banks cards or systems are unbreachable.....as the banks improve security the crooks simply educate themselves adapt and overcome new security. sometimes the banks are ahead somtimes the crooks....im sorry your victims here it must be terrible. Santander will only ever say were totally safe and secure....as any other admission would be financially suicidal so dont expect anything other than the official line. If your TOTALLY sure ya daughters not had the cash....involve media....they hate ann robinson....good luck xxx

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By *uckscouple2007Couple
over a year ago

Bucks


"No banks cards or systems are unbreachable.....as the banks improve security the crooks simply educate themselves adapt and overcome new security. sometimes the banks are ahead somtimes the crooks....im sorry your victims here it must be terrible. Santander will only ever say were totally safe and secure....as any other admission would be financially suicidal so dont expect anything other than the official line. If your TOTALLY sure ya daughters not had the cash....involve media....they hate ann robinson....good luck "

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Once you have a crime ref they should take it more seriously. Also can you prove that before these your daughter never used to withdraw cash. Again proving its outside of normal usage will help.

Try your house insurance as some provide identity theft cover, they will pay for solicitors etc to do the work for you. Keep tabs of all calls made names etc.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Similar thing happened to me, but not by alot of money, only £300 but it WAS my card that was used and it was used by my EX, we were together at the time yet he still denied using it, and the stupid co-op where the cash point was did not have cctv apparently their camera was broke at the time so they got a fine for it, never got my money and me n the ex split a few months later

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Cash withdrawals of smallish amounts 4-5 times a day would take quite a few days to rack up £4,000 of withdrawals. Let's assume smallish means £30, that would mean £120-£150 a day and 26-33 days consecutively to withdraw that amount of money. Can she access her statements online and see exactly what was withdrawn and when? I'm sure she can prove on more than one occassion that she was somewhere else at the time.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

All cards are subject to the risk of being "cloned"

Unfortunately there will always be people out their trying to defraud those who are going about their business in a normal and legal manner.

Santander have also been subject to a lot of critism regarding their total and absolute lack of continuity with customer service.

The following are steps I would certainly follow in your daughters circumstances...

1] contact the police and report as a crime

2] contact Santander customer care complaints department and report your horror at how you have been delt with and that you have reported the crime committed to the police

3] contact the FSA to lodge complaint against santander, and as another poster said BBC Watchdog might also be worth a call.

4] enquirer with visa about unauthorised withdrawals on the account, they do offer protection for certain things, not sure if this is covered though

Best of luck

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By *ovedupstillCouple
over a year ago

mullinwire


"Cash withdrawals of smallish amounts 4-5 times a day would take quite a few days to rack up £4,000 of withdrawals. Let's assume smallish means £30, that would mean £120-£150 a day and 26-33 days consecutively to withdraw that amount of money. Can she access her statements online and see exactly what was withdrawn and when? I'm sure she can prove on more than one occassion that she was somewhere else at the time."

dont all cashpoints have a £250 a day limit? so if it is small amounts, they could still get 4k out in a little over a fortnight.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Similar thing happened to me, but not by alot of money, only £300 but it WAS my card that was used and it was used by my EX, we were together at the time yet he still denied using it, and the stupid co-op where the cash point was did not have cctv apparently their camera was broke at the time so they got a fine for it, never got my money and me n the ex split a few months later "

I suspect that it is something along those lines. Fraudsters batter cards as quickly as possible expecting to get caught. Usually after one small test transaction like a phone top up. And fraudsters are very unlikely to use cash withdrawels and definitely not multiple small ones. If they were withdrawing cash it would have been max daily amount on a daily basis until the card was retained.

Small amounts, from the same local cash machine is not going to be fraud. It is going to be theft.

Out of interest what are your daughters living arrangements is she sharing? If her card can;t be cloned has she asked if a their is a second named carduser on her account?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Cash withdrawals of smallish amounts 4-5 times a day would take quite a few days to rack up £4,000 of withdrawals. Let's assume smallish means £30, that would mean £120-£150 a day and 26-33 days consecutively to withdraw that amount of money. Can she access her statements online and see exactly what was withdrawn and when? I'm sure she can prove on more than one occassion that she was somewhere else at the time.

dont all cashpoints have a £250 a day limit? so if it is small amounts, they could still get 4k out in a little over a fortnight."

£250 a day for 16 days is not a small amount. It shows a determination to max the card out, either by the cardholder or by a cloned card. It's certainly suspicious but what traiggers alarm bells in my mind is that Santander didn't contact the cardholder and verify that she was making the withdrawals.

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


"Similar thing happened to me, but not by alot of money, only £300 but it WAS my card that was used and it was used by my EX, we were together at the time yet he still denied using it, and the stupid co-op where the cash point was did not have cctv apparently their camera was broke at the time so they got a fine for it, never got my money and me n the ex split a few months later

I suspect that it is something along those lines. Fraudsters batter cards as quickly as possible expecting to get caught. Usually after one small test transaction like a phone top up. And fraudsters are very unlikely to use cash withdrawels and definitely not multiple small ones. If they were withdrawing cash it would have been max daily amount on a daily basis until the card was retained.

Small amounts, from the same local cash machine is not going to be fraud. It is going to be theft.

Out of interest what are your daughters living arrangements is she sharing? If her card can;t be cloned has she asked if a their is a second named carduser on her account? "

ive replied privately ..

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


"Cash withdrawals of smallish amounts 4-5 times a day would take quite a few days to rack up £4,000 of withdrawals. Let's assume smallish means £30, that would mean £120-£150 a day and 26-33 days consecutively to withdraw that amount of money. Can she access her statements online and see exactly what was withdrawn and when? I'm sure she can prove on more than one occassion that she was somewhere else at the time.

dont all cashpoints have a £250 a day limit? so if it is small amounts, they could still get 4k out in a little over a fortnight.

£250 a day for 16 days is not a small amount. It shows a determination to max the card out, either by the cardholder or by a cloned card. It's certainly suspicious but what traiggers alarm bells in my mind is that Santander didn't contact the cardholder and verify that she was making the withdrawals."

that is what i would have thought ? marks and spencer stopped use of my credit card because they wanted to verify a payment of £3.70 to an american forum site ...

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By *uckscouple2007Couple
over a year ago

Bucks

[Removed by poster at 31/05/12 20:58:40]

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By *uckscouple2007Couple
over a year ago

Bucks


"

£250 a day for 16 days is not a small amount. It shows a determination to max the card out, either by the cardholder or by a cloned card. It's certainly suspicious but what traiggers alarm bells in my mind is that Santander didn't contact the cardholder and verify that she was making the withdrawals.

that is what i would have thought ? marks and spencer stopped use of my credit card because they wanted to verify a payment of £3.70 to an american forum site ..."

had used one card quite a few times on amazon over a long period for low value purchases (typically less than £10) but when bought new TV my card company called to question it - but had then to resubmit the booking as initially the card company had blocked it

frustrating but guess shows they do track useage

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"

had used one card quite a few times on amazon over a long period for low value purchases (typically less than £10) but when bought new TV my card company called to question it - but had then to resubmit the booking as initially the card company had blocked it

frustrating but guess shows they do track useage"

I'd rather have the hassle of having to do a transaction twice because of security checks than the hassle of proving I was a legitimate victim of fraud. I always thank my credit card company for phoning to check a transaction I've made or am attempting to make is valid.

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By *ovedupstillCouple
over a year ago

mullinwire

think the massive question that needs answering is does your daughter routinely use the credit card to withdraw cash from machines?

if not, then i would have thought it would be reasonably easy to disprove it was her.

see, i can see whhy it has been done at the local shop, as it would go unnoticed for longer, i guess.

if it were another shop at the other end of the country, the bank would be suspicious a lot sooner.

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago

she uses it onc a month to draw cash for her girls dancing ,,,,,,

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By *abioMan
over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead

in which case they would have the times for which the money has been taken...

if she can prove that she was in a different place (i.e work with cctv camera's) basically it will help back up any case...

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

when i worked at fraud investigations, we had one similar to this. The mother was going mental at us for "wrongly harassing her daughter".... Until we asked her if she'd like to watch the video footage of daughter making the transactions. Attempted self fraud happens alot more common than you think...

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago

trust me i know the banks have to be suspicious,which makes it more difficult as she has to prove innocence .I just hope there is cctv .

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I do feel for you and your daughter and I do hope it gets sorted, but I'm puzzled as to how she hasn't noticed her card being used? Maybe I'm overly cautious, but I check my bank online pretty regularly...I couldn't imagine leaving it unchecked for so long (16 days minimum I think someone said). In future, maybe she should keep an eye on her transactions. I know that doesn't solve this problem, but hopefully would prevent something like this happening again in the future

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By *ugby 123Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

O o O oo

If it was a credit card you normally only get a statement once a month to check, in which time it could be maxed out.

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By *ursevampsWoman
over a year ago

bucks

my sster has special needs and the same thing happened to her but they got caught out when they use dher card online for i tunes as she has no ipod or iphone how they thenknew it was eer up till then they decided that she was forgetfull she got all her money back and as soon as she reported it then the bank closed her card off immediatly and sent her a new one bt as soon as the police were involved the bank acted better ad the police have logged a compliant against the man dealing with her claim as he thought as she was special needs he could blame it on her infact shr card was cloned

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago

thanks for all the pms and help on here ...much appreciated .

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


"my sster has special needs and the same thing happened to her but they got caught out when they use dher card online for i tunes as she has no ipod or iphone how they thenknew it was eer up till then they decided that she was forgetfull she got all her money back and as soon as she reported it then the bank closed her card off immediatly and sent her a new one bt as soon as the police were involved the bank acted better ad the police have logged a compliant against the man dealing with her claim as he thought as she was special needs he could blame it on her infact shr card was cloned "

how was her card cloned ...do you know ?

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By *abioMan
over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead


"If it was a credit card you normally only get a statement once a month to check, in which time it could be maxed out."

not necessary... capital one for example can send me out a text once a week to keep me up to date with any balance... plus for example I check online my account balance online once a week ....

but if there is any chance of spending patterns no matter how small, they can get in touch... thats what i did when i worked for american express

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By *ursevampsWoman
over a year ago

bucks

at a cash point she uses everytime near her

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago

thanks thats useful to know ...

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


"at a cash point she uses everytime near her "

my daughter is in bucks too?

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By *ursevampsWoman
over a year ago

bucks

what part bucks tho hun it a big county lol

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By *ursevampsWoman
over a year ago

bucks

lol let me lol

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By *ugby 123Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

O o O oo


"If it was a credit card you normally only get a statement once a month to check, in which time it could be maxed out.

not necessary... capital one for example can send me out a text once a week to keep me up to date with any balance... plus for example I check online my account balance online once a week ....

but if there is any chance of spending patterns no matter how small, they can get in touch... thats what i did when i worked for american express"

Hence why I didn't use the words " all CC statements.

My CC statement comes once a month, nothing inbetween unless I try and make a big purchase ( I only use it for internet shopping ) and they block it until I ring to confirm it is me ( which I am happy about )

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Cash withdrawals of smallish amounts 4-5 times a day would take quite a few days to rack up £4,000 of withdrawals. Let's assume smallish means £30, that would mean £120-£150 a day and 26-33 days consecutively to withdraw that amount of money. Can she access her statements online and see exactly what was withdrawn and when? I'm sure she can prove on more than one occassion that she was somewhere else at the time.

dont all cashpoints have a £250 a day limit? so if it is small amounts, they could still get 4k out in a little over a fortnight.

£250 a day for 16 days is not a small amount. It shows a determination to max the card out, either by the cardholder or by a cloned card. It's certainly suspicious but what traiggers alarm bells in my mind is that Santander didn't contact the cardholder and verify that she was making the withdrawals.

that is what i would have thought ? marks and spencer stopped use of my credit card because they wanted to verify a payment of £3.70 to an american forum site ..."

i dont get this ether we are with the clysdale bank and if we try to use the same cash machine 3 days in a row they phone us straight away to make shure it is us withdrawing the money and our daughter inlaw is with santandare and when she tried to pay a bill for us over the phone even though she had the funds the bank thought it was fruad so blocked it straight away

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"If it was a credit card you normally only get a statement once a month to check, in which time it could be maxed out."

I guess it could be one where she gets a monthly statement, but I think that's rarer now than ones you can check online. I personally wouldn't have one you couldn't track online because I am sooo bad with money I have to be able to keep track throughout the month! Must have a huge credit limit on the card though too for so much to be taken...think a lot of people don't realise how much they have on credit cards, and banks have a habit of upping the limit whenever they feel like it.

There's no excuse for the scumbags that steal like this, but I do think sometimes people are a bit lax with Credit Cards which makes it easier for the bastards to do things like this x

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

How very odd as when my son was involved in a scam, Santander shut his bank account instantaneously and opened him a new one!

Get the police involved, ring the banks ombudsman and speak to them. Also find out who the cash point belongs to and ring them, get them to check the machine.

I work with someone who's partner is a manager at one of their branches, will ask him to speak to her and get back to you though will be difficult given the 4 days holiday.

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


"How very odd as when my son was involved in a scam, Santander shut his bank account instantaneously and opened him a new one!

Get the police involved, ring the banks ombudsman and speak to them. Also find out who the cash point belongs to and ring them, get them to check the machine.

I work with someone who's partner is a manager at one of their branches, will ask him to speak to her and get back to you though will be difficult given the 4 days holiday."

thanks ..this all kicked off yesterday so hoping for better news today .

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Oh yes they can be cloned,my sister had hers done,not for a great some of monie ,her x hubby who she is still friendly with works in the desing of card readers and new tecnoligy trying to stay one step ahead of the fraudsters and he tells me that all cards can be cloned no execption just needs certian deatails, which brings to my last point,has anyone been getting e.mails supposidly from there banks asking them to log on and update details ,i have .its a scam,banks dont contact and update details by e.mail,Now i have had them from every bank BOS royal BOS TSB and Santander,there pages look excatly like the correct one ,I am assuning your daughter did not log on and submit any details of her self or accounts ?

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By *aughtyNurse999Woman
over a year ago

Fabville !!!

They can all be cloned. my sis in law went to her bank to find all her money gone. And a lot has been happening locally also.. its pathetic

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By *estless in batterseaMan
over a year ago

Wandsworth

We had 5,000£ taken from ours am the bank was Santander and that's why we now use HSBC!

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago

it seems that these people clone the card and then use it at the same ATM to make it look like the card holder is telling lies ......i just hope we can sort it today I hardly slept at all last night ....this has put the tin hat on my year so far not sure how much more stuff I can deal with .......

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

yeah they can be cloned, i watched a program about it in the last week on catch up tv,

the banks just wont admit that chip and pin can still be copied with tampered kit because of all the fake fraud claims that would come in and people not having confidence in the system , but the program showed the certain card reader devices can be modified and even have the details sent out via bluetooth so they never have to visit the site again to retrireive the card details and pins

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"it seems that these people clone the card and then use it at the same ATM to make it look like the card holder is telling lies ......i just hope we can sort it today I hardly slept at all last night ....this has put the tin hat on my year so far not sure how much more stuff I can deal with ......."

it wont be a cash machine that its been cloned with, it will be when she has used it in a shop and thats when you got the opertunity to have someone type the pin and scan the card on a machine that is modded to retain any details its been given for cloning, much more unoticiable than on a cash machine where its obvious its been tampered with

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By *ugby 123Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

O o O oo


"If it was a credit card you normally only get a statement once a month to check, in which time it could be maxed out.

I guess it could be one where she gets a monthly statement, but I think that's rarer now than ones you can check online. I personally wouldn't have one you couldn't track online because I am sooo bad with money I have to be able to keep track throughout the month! Must have a huge credit limit on the card though too for so much to be taken...think a lot of people don't realise how much they have on credit cards, and banks have a habit of upping the limit whenever they feel like it.

"

That I agree with, they just up the limit without needing to be asked, I am guessing so you spend more.

I only use mine on internet purchases so I don't lose track....now ok, lots of people on the web have my details and it could be used by them but I didn't ask and refused when they offered a pin number for the card so thankfully if someone took money out like the OP they would know it wasn't me.

All scary though, especially if you have to fight with the banks and you knew it wasn't you.

Mr Ruggers had items come out of his bank a couple of years ago ( one being itunes like someone up there funnily enough)....but his bank were brilliant, he filled in a form and within days the money was refunded.

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By *empting Devil.Woman
over a year ago

Sheffield


"it seems that these people clone the card and then use it at the same ATM to make it look like the card holder is telling lies ......i just hope we can sort it today I hardly slept at all last night ....this has put the tin hat on my year so far not sure how much more stuff I can deal with .......

it wont be a cash machine that its been cloned with, it will be when she has used it in a shop and thats when you got the opertunity to have someone type the pin and scan the card on a machine that is modded to retain any details its been given for cloning, much more unoticiable than on a cash machine where its obvious its been tampered with"

The cash machine at the top of my street was hit recently by people who attached a reader to the slot for the card.

Atms can be targeted and they can get all the details they need to clone your card.

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By *uckscouple2007Couple
over a year ago

Bucks


"it seems that these people clone the card and then use it at the same ATM to make it look like the card holder is telling lies ......i just hope we can sort it today I hardly slept at all last night ....this has put the tin hat on my year so far not sure how much more stuff I can deal with ......."

have you had any good news on this today?

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


"it seems that these people clone the card and then use it at the same ATM to make it look like the card holder is telling lies ......i just hope we can sort it today I hardly slept at all last night ....this has put the tin hat on my year so far not sure how much more stuff I can deal with .......

have you had any good news on this today?"

No santander are still saying the card cant have been cloned ,so today it was back to the police...hopefully they will be able to get the cctv....last transaction was last sunday when 4 amounts were taken ..

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By *uckscouple2007Couple
over a year ago

Bucks

fingers crossed ... hope you get a better sleep tonight

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


"fingers crossed ... hope you get a better sleep tonight"

thanks we havespoken to lots of people and are hopeful it can be sorted

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