FabSwingers.com forum: Domestic Violence Bill

By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

the new bill is now law, new changes around barring orders, safety orders and a new provision of "cohersive control" -in plain English its phycological violence.The mind control, being put down, the lack of respect & mental abise can be more hurtful and damaging than a beating.

women obviously covered by the bill, but so are men, although not as common men can also be abused.

a sexless marriage for women or men (for reasons other than medical) could be classed as abuse.

it will be interesting to see how the gaeda & judges deal with the changes.

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By *mokey and the bandit 1Couple
over a year ago

Dublin

I highly doubt a sex less marriage is defined as abuse. So you are saying that anyone who isn't having sex is being abused?? What a load of bollox

Bandit

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

So you think a spouse is obliged to have sex? Ever heard of marital r*pe?

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By *oghunter33Woman
over a year ago

on the hill NordWest of

No way that a sexless marriage can be classed abusive. That's just nonsense. Let's say one part doesn't enjoy sex at all but has to force him/herself to have sex in order to avoid being accused of domestic abuse. Does that sound right to you op?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"No way that a sexless marriage can be classed abusive. That's just nonsense. Let's say one part doesn't enjoy sex at all but has to force him/herself to have sex in order to avoid being accused of domestic abuse. Does that sound right to you op?

Sounds like coercion to me

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By *mokey and the bandit 1Couple
over a year ago

Dublin

Sounds like coercion to me

It sounds like a rationalisation for cheating if you ask me.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Sounds like coercion to me

It sounds like a rationalisation for cheating if you ask me. "

Oh that too

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By *mokey and the bandit 1Couple
over a year ago

Dublin

So not making me a cuppa in the morning should be classed as abuse too and refusing to do anything I want is too

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Ah it could be taken as a part of the abuse the wider context of behaviour.

But on its own obviously not.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Ah it could be taken as a part of the abuse the wider context of behaviour.

But on its own obviously not."

It could even be a response to abuse from the other party

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Ah it could be taken as a part of the abuse the wider context of behaviour.

But on its own obviously not.

It could even be a response to abuse from the other party

Ya of course it could.

My point is witholding sex could be a tool of an abuser but not abuse in its self.

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By *oghunter33Woman
over a year ago

on the hill NordWest of

"Ah it could be taken as a part of the abuse the wider context of behaviour.

But on its own obviously not.

It could even be a response to abuse from the other party

Ya of course it could.

My point is witholding sex could be a tool of an abuser but not abuse in its self."

I'm not sure if that would work. Nobody right in their mind would really want to have sex with his/her abuser and would feel more abused by the withdrawal of sex.

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By *mokey and the bandit 1Couple
over a year ago

Dublin

Sex isn't some sort of divine right. So withholding it shouldn't matter. Otherwise people who can't get their hole are being abused by anyone that refuses to ride them??

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Seems like a bit of an own goal.

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By *ore of thatMan
over a year ago

skerries

Probably be another bill brought in without thinking out every detail .unworkable one .Shane Ross is big into that ..see his crazy last one about drivers giving cyclists more room when passing has been scrapped before it Sven gets off the ground .all the money spent on advertising it .waisted as usual. An Irish solution

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Sex isn't some sort of divine right. So withholding it shouldn't matter. Otherwise people who can't get their hole are being abused by anyone that refuses to ride them??

Would only make sense to those who think their rights trump those of others. But it's not so long since coercive marital sex was perfectly legal for husbands, apparently some still yearn for those days...

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Ah it could be taken as a part of the abuse the wider context of behaviour.

But on its own obviously not.

It could even be a response to abuse from the other party

Ya of course it could.

My point is witholding sex could be a tool of an abuser but not abuse in its self.

I'm not sure if that would work. Nobody right in their mind would really want to have sex with his/her abuser and would feel more abused by the withdrawal of sex."

Oh I dont know about that.

Someone who is being emotional abused might crave intimacy.

If they are constantly being told they are not good enough, ugly and usless. Then also being told that they are sexually repulsive is juat an addition to the rest of the abuse.

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By *ortadowncplCouple
over a year ago

Portadown

"the new bill is now law, new changes around barring orders, safety orders and a new provision of "cohersive control" -in plain English its phycological violence.The mind control, being put down, the lack of respect & mental abise can be more hurtful and damaging than a beating.

women obviously covered by the bill, but so are men, although not as common men can also be abused.

a sexless marriage for women or men (for reasons other than medical) could be classed as abuse.

it will be interesting to see how the gaeda & judges deal with the changes."

It's very important to point out that men are victims of domestic abuse just as much as women. In fact a study by Harvard Heaths stated that,

"When the violence was one-sided, both women and men said that women were the perpetrators about 70% of the time. Men were more likely to be injured in reciprocally violent relationships (25%) than were women when the violence was one-sided (20%)"

Over all the abuse seems to be 50:50 but here in the UK for every One Crisis Shelter for men, there are 120 Crisis shelters for women.

The most violent and abusive relationships are in fact lesbian relationships.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Ah it could be taken as a part of the abuse the wider context of behaviour.

But on its own obviously not.

It could even be a response to abuse from the other party

Ya of course it could.

My point is witholding sex could be a tool of an abuser but not abuse in its self.

I'm not sure if that would work. Nobody right in their mind would really want to have sex with his/her abuser and would feel more abused by the withdrawal of sex.

Oh I dont know about that.

Someone who is being emotional abused might crave intimacy.

If they are constantly being told they are not good enough, ugly and usless. Then also being told that they are sexually repulsive is juat an addition to the rest of the abuse."

I'm inclined to agree with you, those who are being abused quite often crave the approval of their abuser.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Ah it could be taken as a part of the abuse the wider context of behaviour.

But on its own obviously not.

It could even be a response to abuse from the other party

Ya of course it could.

My point is witholding sex could be a tool of an abuser but not abuse in its self.

I'm not sure if that would work. Nobody right in their mind would really want to have sex with his/her abuser and would feel more abused by the withdrawal of sex.

Oh I dont know about that.

Someone who is being emotional abused might crave intimacy.

If they are constantly being told they are not good enough, ugly and usless. Then also being told that they are sexually repulsive is juat an addition to the rest of the abuse."

Sure but how do you align that with consent?

If someone doesn't want to fuck they don't want to fuck....or does no mean yes in this case?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

women obviously covered by the bill, but so are men, although not as common men can also be abused.

a sexless marriage for women or men (for reasons other than medical) could be classed as abuse.

it will be interesting to see how the gaeda & judges deal with the changes.

It's very important to point out that men are victims of domestic abuse just as much as women. In fact a study by Harvard Heaths stated that,

Over all the abuse seems to be 50:50 but here in the UK for every One Crisis Shelter for men, there are 120 Crisis shelters for women.

The most violent and abusive relationships are in fact lesbian relationships."

There's a famous case of a woman who setup a shelter but was completely ostracised because she offered shelter to men too.

Might explain the numbers.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Ah it could be taken as a part of the abuse the wider context of behaviour.

But on its own obviously not.

It could even be a response to abuse from the other party

Ya of course it could.

My point is witholding sex could be a tool of an abuser but not abuse in its self.

I'm not sure if that would work. Nobody right in their mind would really want to have sex with his/her abuser and would feel more abused by the withdrawal of sex.

Oh I dont know about that.

Someone who is being emotional abused might crave intimacy.

If they are constantly being told they are not good enough, ugly and usless. Then also being told that they are sexually repulsive is juat an addition to the rest of the abuse.

Sure but how do you align that with consent?

If someone doesn't want to fuck they don't want to fuck....or does no mean yes in this case? "

An overall price situation of psychological control would have to be demonstrated.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Can you see court orders mandating people to shag someone they don't fancy anymore?

It's fundamentally incompatible with consent.

I suspect we are all arguing about a fake news misinterpretation.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Sounds like coercion to me

Typical Norn Iron.. your understanding of OUR law is as warped as your politics

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

women obviously covered by the bill, but so are men, although not as common men can also be abused.

a sexless marriage for women or men (for reasons other than medical) could be classed as abuse.

it will be interesting to see how the gaeda & judges deal with the changes.

It's very important to point out that men are victims of domestic abuse just as much as women. In fact a study by Harvard Heaths stated that,

Over all the abuse seems to be 50:50 but here in the UK for every One Crisis Shelter for men, there are 120 Crisis shelters for women.

The most violent and abusive relationships are in fact lesbian relationships.

There's a famous case of a woman who setup a shelter but was completely ostracised because she offered shelter to men too.

Might explain the numbers. "

Men understandably fear judgement if they admit abuse by a woman, who may often be quite small physically by comparison. It simply doesn't fit with our societal image of "manliness", so in addition to all the negative self-worth that goes with being abused, there is a fear of being mocked or seen as weak or even outright disbelieved if help is sought-whereas women who seek help will immediately be supported without question.

The truth is that anyone can become a victim of abuse, abusers are adept at manipulation and isolating their victim to create a co-dependency.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Ah it could be taken as a part of the abuse the wider context of behaviour.

But on its own obviously not.

It could even be a response to abuse from the other party

Ya of course it could.

My point is witholding sex could be a tool of an abuser but not abuse in its self.

I'm not sure if that would work. Nobody right in their mind would really want to have sex with his/her abuser and would feel more abused by the withdrawal of sex.

Oh I dont know about that.

Someone who is being emotional abused might crave intimacy.

If they are constantly being told they are not good enough, ugly and usless. Then also being told that they are sexually repulsive is juat an addition to the rest of the abuse.

Sure but how do you align that with consent?

If someone doesn't want to fuck they don't want to fuck....or does no mean yes in this case? "

No as I said in my first post it would have to be taken with the wider context of the ongoing abuse.

I'm not going to profess any expertise here legally or in relation to abusive relashonships.

I just think at times an abuser could use it as part of their abuse

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I'm in a relationship with a wonderful woman on fab and we've been communicating for 2 years now.

She said that she likes me and there's a pattern of her sending kisses, hugs and winks... and saying the cutest things to me after a few drinks. Even though I always fab her latest pics and laugh at her jokes she won't give me sex.

She has manipulated and abused me.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Ah it could be taken as a part of the abuse the wider context of behaviour.

But on its own obviously not.

It could even be a response to abuse from the other party

Ya of course it could.

My point is witholding sex could be a tool of an abuser but not abuse in its self.

I'm not sure if that would work. Nobody right in their mind would really want to have sex with his/her abuser and would feel more abused by the withdrawal of sex.

Oh I dont know about that.

Someone who is being emotional abused might crave intimacy.

If they are constantly being told they are not good enough, ugly and usless. Then also being told that they are sexually repulsive is juat an addition to the rest of the abuse.

Sure but how do you align that with consent?

If someone doesn't want to fuck they don't want to fuck....or does no mean yes in this case?

No as I said in my first post it would have to be taken with the wider context of the ongoing abuse.

I'm not going to profess any expertise here legally or in relation to abusive relashonships.

I just think at times an abuser could use it as part of their abuse"

It's just another slippery slope to trip on.

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By *ortadowncplCouple
over a year ago

Portadown

Unfortunately the laws can be quite one sided, at least here in the UK.

As an example, the Sexual Offences Act of 2003 says that with R*pe

(1)A person (A) commits an offence if—

(a)he intentionally penetrates the vagina, anus or mouth of another person (B) with his penis,

(b)B does not consent to the penetration, and

(c)A does not reasonably believe that B consents.

Please note the use of the Pronoun "He", as women cannot r*pe men according to our laws.

The same goes for sexual assault, even when there is a child involved. The "He" is specified.

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By *oghunter33Woman
over a year ago

on the hill NordWest of

"Ah it could be taken as a part of the abuse the wider context of behaviour.

But on its own obviously not.

It could even be a response to abuse from the other party

Ya of course it could.

My point is witholding sex could be a tool of an abuser but not abuse in its self.

I'm not sure if that would work. Nobody right in their mind would really want to have sex with his/her abuser and would feel more abused by the withdrawal of sex.

Oh I dont know about that.

Someone who is being emotional abused might crave intimacy.

If they are constantly being told they are not good enough, ugly and usless. Then also being told that they are sexually repulsive is juat an addition to the rest of the abuse.

Sure but how do you align that with consent?

If someone doesn't want to fuck they don't want to fuck....or does no mean yes in this case?

No as I said in my first post it would have to be taken with the wider context of the ongoing abuse.

I'm not going to profess any expertise here legally or in relation to abusive relashonships.

I just think at times an abuser could use it as part of their abuse"

Their might be the odd case but it's normally the other way around that forced sex acts are used by the abuser to assert more control and power over the victim.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Ah it could be taken as a part of the abuse the wider context of behaviour.

But on its own obviously not.

It could even be a response to abuse from the other party

Ya of course it could.

My point is witholding sex could be a tool of an abuser but not abuse in its self.

I'm not sure if that would work. Nobody right in their mind would really want to have sex with his/her abuser and would feel more abused by the withdrawal of sex.

Oh I dont know about that.

Someone who is being emotional abused might crave intimacy.

If they are constantly being told they are not good enough, ugly and usless. Then also being told that they are sexually repulsive is juat an addition to the rest of the abuse.

Sure but how do you align that with consent?

If someone doesn't want to fuck they don't want to fuck....or does no mean yes in this case?

No as I said in my first post it would have to be taken with the wider context of the ongoing abuse.

I'm not going to profess any expertise here legally or in relation to abusive relashonships.

I just think at times an abuser could use it as part of their abuse

Their might be the odd case but it's normally the other way around that forced sex acts are used by the abuser to assert more control and power over the victim. "

I wouldnt argue with that.

The two could also be used by the same abuser long periods of no sex and then forced sex on their terms.

As you said its all about control and power

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Ah it could be taken as a part of the abuse the wider context of behaviour.

But on its own obviously not.

It could even be a response to abuse from the other party

Ya of course it could.

My point is witholding sex could be a tool of an abuser but not abuse in its self.

I'm not sure if that would work. Nobody right in their mind would really want to have sex with his/her abuser and would feel more abused by the withdrawal of sex.

Oh I dont know about that.

Someone who is being emotional abused might crave intimacy.

If they are constantly being told they are not good enough, ugly and usless. Then also being told that they are sexually repulsive is juat an addition to the rest of the abuse.

Sure but how do you align that with consent?

If someone doesn't want to fuck they don't want to fuck....or does no mean yes in this case?

No as I said in my first post it would have to be taken with the wider context of the ongoing abuse.

I'm not going to profess any expertise here legally or in relation to abusive relashonships.

I just think at times an abuser could use it as part of their abuse

Their might be the odd case but it's normally the other way around that forced sex acts are used by the abuser to assert more control and power over the victim.

I wouldnt argue with that.

The two could also be used by the same abuser long periods of no sex and then forced sex on their terms.

As you said its all about control and power"

Now you're just being ridiculous.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I wonder how many cuckold couples look like abusive relationships in the eyes of this new law.

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By *martMaxwellMan
over a year ago

"...oh what a tangled web we weave."

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By *eductively_SweetWoman
over a year ago

wexford

"I wonder how many cuckold couples look like abusive relationships in the eyes of this new law.

I really think you should read up a little more before you say any more.. mental abuse is extremely common and withholding sex is also very common in narccisstic women one of their may says to control.. while we are all entitled to our own opinions and I'm not here to try change it.. the bigger picture is usually that small grey area that need to looked at closely so knowing the facts goes along way to a good healthy debate instead of trying to undermine ppl here.. nothing in this world is as seems and no one knows what goes on behind close doors. And if a law like this helps one person then to me it's worth it

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By *antra MassageMan
over a year ago

city

I think it's a good idea, but will it make good law? I'm sure it will be difficult to prove coercive abuse in court. You would, at least, have to prove coercive intent.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

mental abuse can come in a lot of forms and I suppose if a married couple were used to a regular and loving sex life and then it became a dangling carrot to be used by either partner, than after time it would become a form of abuse. Divorce in Ireland is blameless though so only reason for someone to use it would be as a grounds for separation or a barring order. Wouldn’t be an easy one to police

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I wonder how many cuckold couples look like abusive relationships in the eyes of this new law.

A little less of the high horse

The if it helps one person rational is always rolled out but it isn't the way to good policy making.

Simply put....a cuck relationship involving consentually withholding sex and humiliating the man is textbook "abuse" as it's put forward here.

You might be right...some women push to cuck their husbands and they might just be going along with it but not actually enjoying it...or vice versa.

To me it sounds like just another he said/she said slippery slope.

Perfect for trial by media, less so for trial by legal principles.

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By *r_mrs_studmuffinCouple
over a year ago

narnia

For once I applaude our government on bringing this law in .. it was badly needed I just hope that they will be able to enforce this law and that people will be held accountable .. emotional abuse can do untold damage.

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By *hoosyhotwifeCouple
over a year ago

any

"For once I applaude our government on bringing this law in .. it was badly needed I just hope that they will be able to enforce this law and that people will be held accountable .. emotional abuse can do untold damage."

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

this post has started an interesting debate and there are wide & varied views.

rather than a sexless marriage I meant to say " witholding intimacy, whether that be hugs, kisses, sex or kind remarks" is a form of control in the relationship, and that could be seen as emotional & mental abuse whether it be a man or woman withholding that intimacy.

the authorities will no doubt be looking at a number of issues when bringing a domestic violence charge

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By *osmicGateMan
over a year ago

louth

Very difficult to enforce this ..its different if the person is being physically assaulted but mental abuse and financial abuse..how can they outlaw a narcissist..theyve been in and out peoples lives for centuries..rubbish law

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By *he rover returnedWoman
over a year ago

xxx

"Very difficult to enforce this ..its different if the person is being physically assaulted but mental abuse and financial abuse..how can they outlaw a narcissist..theyve been in and out peoples lives for centuries..rubbish law

Backed up by a medical history will help i suppose

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Backed up by a medical history will help i suppose "

I doubt that!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

About bloody time something is been done.....there are some right assholes around trating people very bad.....street angles house devils.....yes it might be hard to prove but bring it on,theres no smoke with out fire......more money for people in law is the only problem i see with this,not that they should offer there services for free but they are over paid

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By *aughtyTippcplCouple
over a year ago

Nearby

If a partner is messing with your head, controlling you, constantly putting you down, then would anyone wonder at you not wanting to have sex with them?

I've been there, the head games, control and then the physical side of it. I've had protection orders, barring orders against my ex. Its about time a law was brought in about the mental abuse. Fists can leave bruises, but they heal. The scars of mental abuse are much harder to get through

Tina

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By *aughtyTippcplCouple
over a year ago

Nearby

Not every form of abuse is visible

Tina

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By *evil_u_knowMan
over a year ago

city

"So you think a spouse is obliged to have sex? Ever heard of marital r*pe? "

It's called marital duties, if you are not able to perform then, then youre not supposed to get married.

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By *he rover returnedWoman
over a year ago

xxx

"So you think a spouse is obliged to have sex? Ever heard of marital r*pe?

It's called marital duties, if you are not able to perform then, then youre not supposed to get married."

Touchè ... love this comment just a bit

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By *lippery-when-wet-180Woman
over a year ago

South Dub

"I wonder how many cuckold couples look like abusive relationships in the eyes of this new law.

A little less of the high horse

The if it helps one person rational is always rolled out but it isn't the way to good policy making.

Simply put....a cuck relationship involving consentually withholding sex and humiliating the man is textbook "abuse" as it's put forward here.

You might be right...some women push to cuck their husbands and they might just be going along with it but not actually enjoying it...or vice versa.

To me it sounds like just another he said/she said slippery slope.

Perfect for trial by media, less so for trial by legal principles.

Have you been in an abusive relationship? Doesn’t sound like you know the difference between abuse and consensual partners to me

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I wonder how many cuckold couples look like abusive relationships in the eyes of this new law.

A little less of the high horse

The if it helps one person rational is always rolled out but it isn't the way to good policy making.

Simply put....a cuck relationship involving consentually withholding sex and humiliating the man is textbook "abuse" as it's put forward here.

You might be right...some women push to cuck their husbands and they might just be going along with it but not actually enjoying it...or vice versa.

To me it sounds like just another he said/she said slippery slope.

Perfect for trial by media, less so for trial by legal principles.

Have you been in an abusive relationship? Doesn’t sound like you know the difference between abuse and consensual partners to me"

No I haven't but I understand the basics of consent and I'm baffled by this law and the liberal types here blindly supporting it.

We brought in a law about marital r*pe in the late 90s for a good reason, no?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"So you think a spouse is obliged to have sex? Ever heard of marital r*pe?

It's called marital duties, if you are not able to perform then, then youre not supposed to get married.

Touchè ... love this comment just a bit

I honestly can't comprehend this.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"So you think a spouse is obliged to have sex? Ever heard of marital r*pe?

It's called marital duties, if you are not able to perform then, then youre not supposed to get married."

Who said they're not able to, the issue is consent

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"So you think a spouse is obliged to have sex? Ever heard of marital r*pe?

It's called marital duties, if you are not able to perform then, then youre not supposed to get married.

Touchè ... love this comment just a bit

So consent is irrelevant to you too?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"So you think a spouse is obliged to have sex? Ever heard of marital r*pe?

It's called marital duties, if you are not able to perform then, then youre not supposed to get married."

Thats wrong on so many levels.surely there is more to a marriage than sexual pleasure

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