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"It’s not treatment. It’s further palliative care. The end result will unfortunately be the same. IF he survives the transfer. Once life support is withdrawn, it’s very normal for death to take between hours and days. " but surely the parents should be able chose if they want him to go to Italy for palliative care ?? I don't know if a judge should be deciding ... either way that poor little boy  | |||
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"It’s not treatment. It’s further palliative care. The end result will unfortunately be the same. IF he survives the transfer. Once life support is withdrawn, it’s very normal for death to take between hours and days. but surely the parents should be able chose if they want him to go to Italy for palliative care ?? I don't know if a judge should be deciding ... either way that poor little boy "The thing is, and I’ve been that parent in PICU albeit with a better outcome. When numerous doctors are all advising this isn’t in the child’s best interest, it’s not for fun or to murder the child. One doctor doesn’t just say on a whim, right unplug him. It takes a long long time and a lot of consultations with highly trained medics to make that decision, and obviously as a parent your instinct is to do everything and sometimes you need to step back and assess why they are saying this. It’s not an easy decision or pleasant decision for the medical team to make. If it was you still personally and you’d deteriorated to the point your brain was 86% water and you’re suffering, would you want this to continue and your family live streaming your death on Facebook or would you rather be let rest? | |||
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"It’s not treatment. It’s further palliative care. The end result will unfortunately be the same. IF he survives the transfer. Once life support is withdrawn, it’s very normal for death to take between hours and days. but surely the parents should be able chose if they want him to go to Italy for palliative care ?? I don't know if a judge should be deciding ... either way that poor little boy
The thing is, and I’ve been that parent in PICU albeit with a better outcome. When numerous doctors are all advising this isn’t in the child’s best interest, it’s not for fun or to murder the child. One doctor doesn’t just say on a whim, right unplug him. It takes a long long time and a lot of consultations with highly trained medics to make that decision, and obviously as a parent your instinct is to do everything and sometimes you need to step back and assess why they are saying this.
It’s not an easy decision or pleasant decision for the medical team to make.
If it was you still personally and you’d deteriorated to the point your brain was 86% water and you’re suffering, would you want this to continue and your family live streaming your death on Facebook or would you rather be let rest?"In the scenario you mention, please let me go. It would at least be with some dignity. As you said above, now the support machine is gone, it will probably be soon. If that doesn't happen, then perhaps there's a chance and something could be done in Italy. I guess we'd fight more for the life of a child than an over 70 one. It's a tough call. I'm leaving this discussion now though, as I'm not aware of all the facts and only speaking as a parent, as well, I guess, as a child, as both my parents are still here. | |||
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"It’s not treatment. It’s further palliative care. The end result will unfortunately be the same. IF he survives the transfer. Once life support is withdrawn, it’s very normal for death to take between hours and days. but surely the parents should be able chose if they want him to go to Italy for palliative care ?? I don't know if a judge should be deciding ... either way that poor little boy
The thing is, and I’ve been that parent in PICU albeit with a better outcome. When numerous doctors are all advising this isn’t in the child’s best interest, it’s not for fun or to murder the child. One doctor doesn’t just say on a whim, right unplug him. It takes a long long time and a lot of consultations with highly trained medics to make that decision, and obviously as a parent your instinct is to do everything and sometimes you need to step back and assess why they are saying this.
It’s not an easy decision or pleasant decision for the medical team to make.
If it was you still personally and you’d deteriorated to the point your brain was 86% water and you’re suffering, would you want this to continue and your family live streaming your death on Facebook or would you rather be let rest?"you see that's my question is it right or wrong?? I personally don't know what I'd do in a situation like this of course as a parent you would try your best and fight and at the back of it all you hope doctors are wrong .. the longer it goes on the harder it is for that little man and his family | |||
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"It’s not treatment. It’s further palliative care. The end result will unfortunately be the same. IF he survives the transfer. Once life support is withdrawn, it’s very normal for death to take between hours and days. but surely the parents should be able chose if they want him to go to Italy for palliative care ?? I don't know if a judge should be deciding ... either way that poor little boy
The thing is, and I’ve been that parent in PICU albeit with a better outcome. When numerous doctors are all advising this isn’t in the child’s best interest, it’s not for fun or to murder the child. One doctor doesn’t just say on a whim, right unplug him. It takes a long long time and a lot of consultations with highly trained medics to make that decision, and obviously as a parent your instinct is to do everything and sometimes you need to step back and assess why they are saying this.
It’s not an easy decision or pleasant decision for the medical team to make.
If it was you still personally and you’d deteriorated to the point your brain was 86% water and you’re suffering, would you want this to continue and your family live streaming your death on Facebook or would you rather be let rest?you see that's my question is it right or wrong?? I personally don't know what I'd do in a situation like this of course as a parent you would try your best and fight and at the back of it all you hope doctors are wrong .. the longer it goes on the harder it is for that little man and his family "I guess that’s why the legal system exists. Either way it’s heartbreaking | |||
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"From what i have read tue doctors really dont know what is wrong wit him . So why not let him go to Italy. " I agree Italy might be able to do something. My uncle had a bad accident a few years ago. My gran was told he was brain dead and never going to do anything again. The only think he can't do now is walk. Miracles do happen. | |||
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"From what i have read tue doctors really dont know what is wrong wit him . So why not let him go to Italy. I agree Italy might be able to do something. My uncle had a bad accident a few years ago. My gran was told he was brain dead and never going to do anything again. The only think he can't do now is walk. Miracles do happen. " His brain isn’t dead though, it virtually no longer exists. We can’t regrow brain tissue. | |||
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"It’s not treatment. It’s further palliative care. The end result will unfortunately be the same. IF he survives the transfer. Once life support is withdrawn, it’s very normal for death to take between hours and days. but surely the parents should be able chose if they want him to go to Italy for palliative care ?? I don't know if a judge should be deciding ... either way that poor little boy
The thing is, and I’ve been that parent in PICU albeit with a better outcome. When numerous doctors are all advising this isn’t in the child’s best interest, it’s not for fun or to murder the child. One doctor doesn’t just say on a whim, right unplug him. It takes a long long time and a lot of consultations with highly trained medics to make that decision, and obviously as a parent your instinct is to do everything and sometimes you need to step back and assess why they are saying this.
It’s not an easy decision or pleasant decision for the medical team to make.
If it was you still personally and you’d deteriorated to the point your brain was 86% water and you’re suffering, would you want this to continue and your family live streaming your death on Facebook or would you rather be let rest?"Thing is that i dont understand here is why would these doctors have decided to give this child a lethal mix in injection form before turning of life support machine a leathel coctail usually used for those on death row ...thank goodness this was overturned/stopped...or the other thing refuse to give oxygen and food, these doctors etc clearly have broke all medical rules , thos young child has proved doctors way wrong by breathing by himself now for quite some hours and for these doctors and judges to stop this child from a chance of life no matter how small that may be by being taken to Rome is just wrong | |||
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"It’s not treatment. It’s further palliative care. The end result will unfortunately be the same. IF he survives the transfer. Once life support is withdrawn, it’s very normal for death to take between hours and days. but surely the parents should be able chose if they want him to go to Italy for palliative care ?? I don't know if a judge should be deciding ... either way that poor little boy
The thing is, and I’ve been that parent in PICU albeit with a better outcome. When numerous doctors are all advising this isn’t in the child’s best interest, it’s not for fun or to murder the child. One doctor doesn’t just say on a whim, right unplug him. It takes a long long time and a lot of consultations with highly trained medics to make that decision, and obviously as a parent your instinct is to do everything and sometimes you need to step back and assess why they are saying this.
It’s not an easy decision or pleasant decision for the medical team to make.
If it was you still personally and you’d deteriorated to the point your brain was 86% water and you’re suffering, would you want this to continue and your family live streaming your death on Facebook or would you rather be let rest?
Thing is that i dont understand here is why would these doctors have decided to give this child a lethal mix in injection form before turning of life support machine a leathel coctail usually used for those on death row ...thank goodness this was overturned/stopped...or the other thing refuse to give oxygen and food, these doctors etc clearly have broke all medical rules , thos young child has proved doctors way wrong by breathing by himself now for quite some hours and for these doctors and judges to stop this child from a chance of life no matter how small that may be by being taken to Rome is just wrong"I agree wood pecker it's the part of refusing oxygen and water that has me stumped | |||
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"It’s not treatment. It’s further palliative care. The end result will unfortunately be the same. IF he survives the transfer. Once life support is withdrawn, it’s very normal for death to take between hours and days. but surely the parents should be able chose if they want him to go to Italy for palliative care ?? I don't know if a judge should be deciding ... either way that poor little boy
The thing is, and I’ve been that parent in PICU albeit with a better outcome. When numerous doctors are all advising this isn’t in the child’s best interest, it’s not for fun or to murder the child. One doctor doesn’t just say on a whim, right unplug him. It takes a long long time and a lot of consultations with highly trained medics to make that decision, and obviously as a parent your instinct is to do everything and sometimes you need to step back and assess why they are saying this.
It’s not an easy decision or pleasant decision for the medical team to make.
If it was you still personally and you’d deteriorated to the point your brain was 86% water and you’re suffering, would you want this to continue and your family live streaming your death on Facebook or would you rather be let rest?
Thing is that i dont understand here is why would these doctors have decided to give this child a lethal mix in injection form before turning of life support machine a leathel coctail usually used for those on death row ...thank goodness this was overturned/stopped...or the other thing refuse to give oxygen and food, these doctors etc clearly have broke all medical rules , thos young child has proved doctors way wrong by breathing by himself now for quite some hours and for these doctors and judges to stop this child from a chance of life no matter how small that may be by being taken to Rome is just wrong"It’s not a lethal injection. Midazalom is a relaxant thetbthe child already receives, as does anyone in their last stages. In fact if you’ve ever had a procedure under sedation, you’ve had the same “lethal injection”. Fenatyl is a pain killer and on standby should the patient show any signs of pain or distress. Please educate yourself. | |||
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"He do now Jessica thank you for clearing that up What a heartbreaking situation for everyone involved " It really is  | |||
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"It’s not treatment. It’s further palliative care. The end result will unfortunately be the same. IF he survives the transfer. Once life support is withdrawn, it’s very normal for death to take between hours and days. but surely the parents should be able chose if they want him to go to Italy for palliative care ?? I don't know if a judge should be deciding ... either way that poor little boy
The thing is, and I’ve been that parent in PICU albeit with a better outcome. When numerous doctors are all advising this isn’t in the child’s best interest, it’s not for fun or to murder the child. One doctor doesn’t just say on a whim, right unplug him. It takes a long long time and a lot of consultations with highly trained medics to make that decision, and obviously as a parent your instinct is to do everything and sometimes you need to step back and assess why they are saying this.
It’s not an easy decision or pleasant decision for the medical team to make.
If it was you still personally and you’d deteriorated to the point your brain was 86% water and you’re suffering, would you want this to continue and your family live streaming your death on Facebook or would you rather be let rest?
Thing is that i dont understand here is why would these doctors have decided to give this child a lethal mix in injection form before turning of life support machine a leathel coctail usually used for those on death row ...thank goodness this was overturned/stopped...or the other thing refuse to give oxygen and food, these doctors etc clearly have broke all medical rules , thos young child has proved doctors way wrong by breathing by himself now for quite some hours and for these doctors and judges to stop this child from a chance of life no matter how small that may be by being taken to Rome is just wrong
It’s not a lethal injection. Midazalom is a relaxant thetbthe child already receives, as does anyone in their last stages. In fact if you’ve ever had a procedure under sedation, you’ve had the same “lethal injection”. Fenatyl is a pain killer and on standby should the patient show any signs of pain or distress. Please educate yourself."Thanks Jessica, you seem to have the needed knowledge to understand what's going on. To the poster above uk legislation wouldn't allow lethal injections, that would classify as plain killing/murder. | |||
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"It’s not treatment. It’s further palliative care. The end result will unfortunately be the same. IF he survives the transfer. Once life support is withdrawn, it’s very normal for death to take between hours and days. but surely the parents should be able chose if they want him to go to Italy for palliative care ?? I don't know if a judge should be deciding ... either way that poor little boy
The thing is, and I’ve been that parent in PICU albeit with a better outcome. When numerous doctors are all advising this isn’t in the child’s best interest, it’s not for fun or to murder the child. One doctor doesn’t just say on a whim, right unplug him. It takes a long long time and a lot of consultations with highly trained medics to make that decision, and obviously as a parent your instinct is to do everything and sometimes you need to step back and assess why they are saying this.
It’s not an easy decision or pleasant decision for the medical team to make.
If it was you still personally and you’d deteriorated to the point your brain was 86% water and you’re suffering, would you want this to continue and your family live streaming your death on Facebook or would you rather be let rest?
Thing is that i dont understand here is why would these doctors have decided to give this child a lethal mix in injection form before turning of life support machine a leathel coctail usually used for those on death row ...thank goodness this was overturned/stopped...or the other thing refuse to give oxygen and food, these doctors etc clearly have broke all medical rules , thos young child has proved doctors way wrong by breathing by himself now for quite some hours and for these doctors and judges to stop this child from a chance of life no matter how small that may be by being taken to Rome is just wrong
It’s not a lethal injection. Midazalom is a relaxant thetbthe child already receives, as does anyone in their last stages. In fact if you’ve ever had a procedure under sedation, you’ve had the same “lethal injection”. Fenatyl is a pain killer and on standby should the patient show any signs of pain or distress. Please educate yourself.
Thanks Jessica, you seem to have the needed knowledge to understand what's going on.
To the poster above uk legislation wouldn't allow lethal injections, that would classify as plain killing/murder. "I’m actually relieved to see a respectful discussion on the issue. On one forum I was told to go murder my own children then come back with an opinion on how it’s wrong to threaten to hold the staff at gun point and remove the child  | |||
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"Im just saying as a parent myself if my boy were in this situation i also would be trying every poss way to help my child evrn there was a grain of hope of perhaps some other hospital could maybe find a diagnosis etc ... but i believe our best for this young boy is for this nation to get down on their knees and pray earnestly for this child surely we all know God gave life so shouldnt it be Gods to take back when he sees fit and ready to do so that isnt mere mortal mans decision... the 10 commandments teach us 'THOU SHALT NOT KILL' doesnt say well if u think u should then thats ok NO its stated clearly 'THOU SHALT NOT'. (only saying)" Ok as a Christian and a theology graduate can I point out that we’re alresdy playing God by resuscitating and providing machines for life support.... | |||
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"Im just saying as a parent myself if my boy were in this situation i also would be trying every poss way to help my child evrn there was a grain of hope of perhaps some other hospital could maybe find a diagnosis etc ... but i believe our best for this young boy is for this nation to get down on their knees and pray earnestly for this child surely we all know God gave life so shouldnt it be Gods to take back when he sees fit and ready to do so that isnt mere mortal mans decision... the 10 commandments teach us 'THOU SHALT NOT KILL' doesnt say well if u think u should then thats ok NO its stated clearly 'THOU SHALT NOT'. (only saying) Ok as a Christian and a theology graduate can I point out that we’re alresdy playing God by resuscitating and providing machines for life support...." ah Jessica that's a whole new debate  | |||
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"Im just saying as a parent myself if my boy were in this situation i also would be trying every poss way to help my child evrn there was a grain of hope of perhaps some other hospital could maybe find a diagnosis etc ... but i believe our best for this young boy is for this nation to get down on their knees and pray earnestly for this child surely we all know God gave life so shouldnt it be Gods to take back when he sees fit and ready to do so that isnt mere mortal mans decision... the 10 commandments teach us 'THOU SHALT NOT KILL' doesnt say well if u think u should then thats ok NO its stated clearly 'THOU SHALT NOT'. (only saying) Ok as a Christian and a theology graduate can I point out that we’re alresdy playing God by resuscitating and providing machines for life support.... ah Jessica that's a whole new debate "I haven’t even mentioned extra marital sex yet | |||
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"Im just saying as a parent myself if my boy were in this situation i also would be trying every poss way to help my child evrn there was a grain of hope of perhaps some other hospital could maybe find a diagnosis etc ... but i believe our best for this young boy is for this nation to get down on their knees and pray earnestly for this child surely we all know God gave life so shouldnt it be Gods to take back when he sees fit and ready to do so that isnt mere mortal mans decision... the 10 commandments teach us 'THOU SHALT NOT KILL' doesnt say well if u think u should then thats ok NO its stated clearly 'THOU SHALT NOT'. (only saying) Ok as a Christian and a theology graduate can I point out that we’re alresdy playing God by resuscitating and providing machines for life support.... ah Jessica that's a whole new debate
I haven’t even mentioned extra marital sex yet"haha Jessica   | |||
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"Im just saying as a parent myself if my boy were in this situation i also would be trying every poss way to help my child evrn there was a grain of hope of perhaps some other hospital could maybe find a diagnosis etc ... but i believe our best for this young boy is for this nation to get down on their knees and pray earnestly for this child surely we all know God gave life so shouldnt it be Gods to take back when he sees fit and ready to do so that isnt mere mortal mans decision... the 10 commandments teach us 'THOU SHALT NOT KILL' doesnt say well if u think u should then thats ok NO its stated clearly 'THOU SHALT NOT'. (only saying) Ok as a Christian and a theology graduate can I point out that we’re alresdy playing God by resuscitating and providing machines for life support.... ah Jessica that's a whole new debate
I haven’t even mentioned extra marital sex yethaha Jessica "Or dietary laws, or coveting your neighbour’s wife, mixing fabrics......... | |||
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"I don'r know everything about the case nor do I have the medical knowledge to be confident of making a comment based on that. I humbly assume that the doctors involved have agonised over this situation. Sometimes doctors do get it wrong though . It isn't a miracle either when this happens. It's just human error. We are an evolved species with what we percejve as to be intelligent. Often a decision can be made based off emotion as opposed to the best objective evidence available. What we want to be the truth often is notnot. As a side point I really do not know what prayers are meant to do for the little lad. Does the god being prayed have this plan for Alfie ? Is prayer to ask "him" to change his plan ? Prayer literally does nothing except make the person who does it feel better. Life is complicated, life is sad, life is fun, life is glorious, life is heartbreaking, life is unfair, life is humbling, life is emotional, life is fantastic. It is all of that and so much more. Hopefully this young boy who has touched the hearts of millions will inspire people to live their lives with more gratitude for the good moments and ignite some strength in the less than fortunate moments. " well said . | |||
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"While I feel for parents, all Italy could hope to do is come up with what terminal brain disease he has that the UK haven't found in months he has been in hospital. Italian docs haven't even met him. I've heard specialists talk about it & they say he can breathe potentially for 10 days unaided but I've also read parents saying his lips turned blue & they had to give mouth to mouth hence he is already on downward slope. What saddens me is parents breaking dnr will mean they will have to be removed from room for breaking court order rather than let him go peacefully with them both by his side. We all don't want to let people go but sometimes it's for best. Spend what time you can with him instead of infront of cameras. If italy had cure ok send him over but it's just more tests for answer that more than likely will be found out at autopsy. No court would allow it get this far plus all appeals all way up European chain if there was any real hope. What saddens me the most is all the protests I've seen for him including in dublin tonight but elderly in a&e trolleys for over 48hrs at heightest level & nothing. Report says more trolleys in 4 months over 48hrs waiting then all last year.. where are those protests. Sorry I know different topic but it makes blood boil how we ignore major problem & get sucked in by largest noise story at that moment rather than one effecting huge numbers for ages with no sign of improvement" Well said  | |||
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"I don'r know everything about the case nor do I have the medical knowledge to be confident of making a comment based on that. I humbly assume that the doctors involved have agonised over this situation. Sometimes doctors do get it wrong though . It isn't a miracle either when this happens. It's just human error. We are an evolved species with what we percejve as to be intelligent. Often a decision can be made based off emotion as opposed to the best objective evidence available. What we want to be the truth often is notnot. As a side point I really do not know what prayers are meant to do for the little lad. Does the god being prayed have this plan for Alfie ? Is prayer to ask "him" to change his plan ? Prayer literally does nothing except make the person who does it feel better. Life is complicated, life is sad, life is fun, life is glorious, life is heartbreaking, life is unfair, life is humbling, life is emotional, life is fantastic. It is all of that and so much more. Hopefully this young boy who has touched the hearts of millions will inspire people to live their lives with more gratitude for the good moments and ignite some strength in the less than fortunate moments. well said . " very well said | |||
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"It’s not treatment. It’s further palliative care. The end result will unfortunately be the same. IF he survives the transfer. Once life support is withdrawn, it’s very normal for death to take between hours and days. but surely the parents should be able chose if they want him to go to Italy for palliative care ?? I don't know if a judge should be deciding ... either way that poor little boy
The thing is, and I’ve been that parent in PICU albeit with a better outcome. When numerous doctors are all advising this isn’t in the child’s best interest, it’s not for fun or to murder the child. One doctor doesn’t just say on a whim, right unplug him. It takes a long long time and a lot of consultations with highly trained medics to make that decision, and obviously as a parent your instinct is to do everything and sometimes you need to step back and assess why they are saying this.
It’s not an easy decision or pleasant decision for the medical team to make.
If it was you still personally and you’d deteriorated to the point your brain was 86% water and you’re suffering, would you want this to continue and your family live streaming your death on Facebook or would you rather be let rest?you see that's my question is it right or wrong?? I personally don't know what I'd do in a situation like this of course as a parent you would try your best and fight and at the back of it all you hope doctors are wrong .. the longer it goes on the harder it is for that little man and his family "I've a daughter who cares for those little ones like the one mentioned above. I also watched my youngest on the brink of slipping away with nothing more that could be done. It was heart wrenching to accept that this was best for both her and us. When we saw that we had a peace about it. Thankfully she didnt, a wee miracle that none of the specialists or carers could explain even to this day. It wasn't meant to be. My aunt was kept alive for months and months with no quality of life during those months. All the family now would agree it was more for us than for her that we wanted her around, and we all now wish we had been willing to let her go instead of prolonging her suffering. But what I'm saying is this sometimes fighting for something isn't the best thing. Sometimes it's best to let it take its natural course and not prolong the pain and agony. It's a hard one OP with no right ir wrong as such because what's right in one case may not be right in another. | |||
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"It’s not treatment. It’s further palliative care. The end result will unfortunately be the same. IF he survives the transfer. Once life support is withdrawn, it’s very normal for death to take between hours and days. but surely the parents should be able chose if they want him to go to Italy for palliative care ?? I don't know if a judge should be deciding ... either way that poor little boy
The thing is, and I’ve been that parent in PICU albeit with a better outcome. When numerous doctors are all advising this isn’t in the child’s best interest, it’s not for fun or to murder the child. One doctor doesn’t just say on a whim, right unplug him. It takes a long long time and a lot of consultations with highly trained medics to make that decision, and obviously as a parent your instinct is to do everything and sometimes you need to step back and assess why they are saying this.
It’s not an easy decision or pleasant decision for the medical team to make.
If it was you still personally and you’d deteriorated to the point your brain was 86% water and you’re suffering, would you want this to continue and your family live streaming your death on Facebook or would you rather be let rest?you see that's my question is it right or wrong?? I personally don't know what I'd do in a situation like this of course as a parent you would try your best and fight and at the back of it all you hope doctors are wrong .. the longer it goes on the harder it is for that little man and his family
I've a daughter who cares for those little ones like the one mentioned above. I also watched my youngest on the brink of slipping away with nothing more that could be done. It was heart wrenching to accept that this was best for both her and us. When we saw that we had a peace about it.
Thankfully she didnt, a wee miracle that none of the specialists or carers could explain even to this day. It wasn't meant to be. My aunt was kept alive for months and months with no quality of life during those months. All the family now would agree it was more for us than for her that we wanted her around, and we all now wish we had been willing to let her go instead of prolonging her suffering.
But what I'm saying is this sometimes fighting for something isn't the best thing. Sometimes it's best to let it take its natural course and not prolong the pain and agony.
It's a hard one OP with no right ir wrong as such because what's right in one case may not be right in another."glad all worked out for you with your youngest | |||
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