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Gender equality ?

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago

Is it an unrealistic goal ?

Will paternity leave ever match maternity leave ?

Will there ever be a 50/50 gender balance with binmen/women ? Mechanics ?

If you worked in a hotel reception and saw a man book in with a 15 yr old girl .. would you assume him to be the dad or assume the worst ? Likewise with a woman and a boy of similar age ? Would she be given the benefit of the doubt more often ?

Will men ever be allowed embrace feminine clothing the way females have embraced traditionally masculine clothing ?

Will womens sports ever be given the same attention as male counterparts ?

Will fathers ever expect a fair custody battle for kids in the event of divorce ?

On a sinking ship will it ever come to the stage women hold no preference over men in being saved first ?

Will women ever attain true pay equity in the wprkplace ?

For me it is hard to see any of these chasms getting close to equality/equal measures between the sexes .

Interested to hear your thoughts on any other obvious discrepancies that you find it hard to see being rectified .

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I like how you can view both sides of the same coin.

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By *oggoneMan
over a year ago

Derry

Pigs will grow wings first. I think as society changes, the issues might evolve. But as to a gender equal society, I really don't think so.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Answer to most questions is NO.

But loads of responsibility sits with women. If they make same choices (career, sports etc) and represent similar value to the organization or viewership, they should be paid equally to a Mae counterparts that represent same value to the system.

I.e. every woman that plays football like Messi and brings same level of revenue to her club and sponsors should and will be paid similar compensation. But if you simply ask for female tennis players to be paid equally to male players without demanding they add same value to their sponsors, you are simply being unfair. Nobody should be getting special treatment, just the one they deserve and work for.

World is not equal and genders are not equal. The opportunities should be.

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By *oghunter33Woman
over a year ago

on the hill NordWest of

It won't until men until men have their periods, get pregnant and give birth.

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By *ichael McCarthyMan
over a year ago

Lucan

[Removed by poster at 17/11/17 11:11:27]

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By *ichael McCarthyMan
over a year ago

Lucan


"It won't until men until men have their periods, get pregnant and give birth and women start dying of manflu. "

Ftfy

(fixed that for you)

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By *oggoneMan
over a year ago

Derry


"It won't until men until men have their periods, get pregnant and give birth. "

That's biolgy, not society.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I like to think it will, but it is generations away.

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By *aid backMan
over a year ago

by a lake with my rod out

On the fair custody of children part I can tell you yes men can have a fair and equal custody even through the courts. OK I was never married but i managed to get a fair maintenance and joint custody and this was without having to employ a solicitor I fought my own case and got everything on par with my ex.

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By *ealOne74Man
over a year ago

limerick

I think in 21st Century women really should compete with men in Olympic sports too. No to segregation!!!

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By *ontbesillywrapyourwillyMan
over a year ago

Tipperary


"On the fair custody of children part I can tell you yes men can have a fair and equal custody even through the courts. OK I was never married but i managed to get a fair maintenance and joint custody and this was without having to employ a solicitor I fought my own case and got everything on par with my ex. "
I know a woman who had 2 children with her then bf. were together the first few years of the kids lives. he then cheated on her, she threw him out and now he doesn't see the kids at all. is she entitled to money from him?

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By *al2001Man
over a year ago

kildare


"On the fair custody of children part I can tell you yes men can have a fair and equal custody even through the courts. OK I was never married but i managed to get a fair maintenance and joint custody and this was without having to employ a solicitor I fought my own case and got everything on par with my ex. I know a woman who had 2 children with her then bf. were together the first few years of the kids lives. he then cheated on her, she threw him out and now he doesn't see the kids at all. is she entitled to money from him?"

Hes entitled to see his kids and they are entitled to money towards their upkeep from him

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

[Removed by poster at 17/11/17 12:08:48]

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By *aid backMan
over a year ago

by a lake with my rod out


"On the fair custody of children part I can tell you yes men can have a fair and equal custody even through the courts. OK I was never married but i managed to get a fair maintenance and joint custody and this was without having to employ a solicitor I fought my own case and got everything on par with my ex. I know a woman who had 2 children with her then bf. were together the first few years of the kids lives. he then cheated on her, she threw him out and now he doesn't see the kids at all. is she entitled to money from him?"

Why doesn't he see his kids?

Maintenance isn't pay to see. Even when my ex stopped me from seeing my daughter I still paid and I still travelled back from the UK to see her even though I knew I'd be told no when I got to her door all while waiting for my date in court. When the judge saw all the receipts and the fact I did everything in my power to maintain and see my child my ex didn't stand a chance. Too many men (my friends included) think that if you don't see your kids you don't have to pay which is a joke as kids cost money to feed dress and look after the only person who suffers when you don't pay is the child they supposedly love.

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By *aid backMan
over a year ago

by a lake with my rod out


"On the fair custody of children part I can tell you yes men can have a fair and equal custody even through the courts. OK I was never married but i managed to get a fair maintenance and joint custody and this was without having to employ a solicitor I fought my own case and got everything on par with my ex. I know a woman who had 2 children with her then bf. were together the first few years of the kids lives. he then cheated on her, she threw him out and now he doesn't see the kids at all. is she entitled to money from him?

Hes entitled to see his kids and they are entitled to money towards their upkeep from him "

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By *ontbesillywrapyourwillyMan
over a year ago

Tipperary


"On the fair custody of children part I can tell you yes men can have a fair and equal custody even through the courts. OK I was never married but i managed to get a fair maintenance and joint custody and this was without having to employ a solicitor I fought my own case and got everything on par with my ex. I know a woman who had 2 children with her then bf. were together the first few years of the kids lives. he then cheated on her, she threw him out and now he doesn't see the kids at all. is she entitled to money from him?

Hes entitled to see his kids and they are entitled to money towards their upkeep from him "
I should of said he has no interest in then any more

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By *aid backMan
over a year ago

by a lake with my rod out


"On the fair custody of children part I can tell you yes men can have a fair and equal custody even through the courts. OK I was never married but i managed to get a fair maintenance and joint custody and this was without having to employ a solicitor I fought my own case and got everything on par with my ex. I know a woman who had 2 children with her then bf. were together the first few years of the kids lives. he then cheated on her, she threw him out and now he doesn't see the kids at all. is she entitled to money from him?

Hes entitled to see his kids and they are entitled to money towards their upkeep from him I should of said he has no interest in then any more "

Classy guy regardless of interest he still has to maintain them

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By *ontbesillywrapyourwillyMan
over a year ago

Tipperary


"On the fair custody of children part I can tell you yes men can have a fair and equal custody even through the courts. OK I was never married but i managed to get a fair maintenance and joint custody and this was without having to employ a solicitor I fought my own case and got everything on par with my ex. I know a woman who had 2 children with her then bf. were together the first few years of the kids lives. he then cheated on her, she threw him out and now he doesn't see the kids at all. is she entitled to money from him?

Hes entitled to see his kids and they are entitled to money towards their upkeep from him I should of said he has no interest in then any more

Classy guy regardless of interest he still has to maintain them "
I havnt a clue does she still look for money from him

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By *oghunter33Woman
over a year ago

on the hill NordWest of


"It won't until men until men have their periods, get pregnant and give birth.

That's biolgy, not society."

Oh I didn't know that!

All I said is that as long there are physical and biological differences there won't be gender equality in all fields.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

[Removed by poster at 17/11/17 13:31:43]

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Well there's always going to be physical/biological differences, so it might not necessarily be seen as a valid point in terms of professional progression or one's place in society. Yes, only women can have babies. Gender equality in terms of rights has progressed and still has a long way to go, for both men and women. It's interesting that discussions like this often head towards perceived biological roles as opposed to professional roles.

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By *oggoneMan
over a year ago

Derry


"It won't until men until men have their periods, get pregnant and give birth.

That's biolgy, not society.

Oh I didn't know that!

All I said is that as long there are physical and biological differences there won't be gender equality in all fields. "

Biology is a little harder to change than society which was the question. Are you ok with using biology to justify inequality in wages or employment?

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By *xyzptlk088Man
over a year ago

Galway

Ah the unequal pay myth

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By *oghunter33Woman
over a year ago

on the hill NordWest of


"It won't until men until men have their periods, get pregnant and give birth.

That's biolgy, not society.

Oh I didn't know that!

All I said is that as long there are physical and biological differences there won't be gender equality in all fields.

Biology is a little harder to change than society which was the question. Are you ok with using biology to justify inequality in wages or employment?"

I'm absolutely aware what the op's question was, so stop patronising me. It goes without saying, that I'm for wage equality - but terms & conditions apply.

However for example it's debatable if paternity and maternity leave should be equal.

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By *xplicitMan
over a year ago

donegal

Are men and women equal in every way???...can we not accept that we are different and yet value each other and our qualities equally??..

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Are men and women equal in every way???...can we not accept that we are different and yet value each other and our qualities equally??.."

I think you're spot on. It's important to recognise our biological differences and value them and at the same time acknowledge that when we portray equal qualities that they are acknowledged equally in the professional field as well as with legal rights. I think we are moving in the right direction albeit slowly.

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By *oggoneMan
over a year ago

Derry


"It won't until men until men have their periods, get pregnant and give birth.

That's biolgy, not society.

Oh I didn't know that!

All I said is that as long there are physical and biological differences there won't be gender equality in all fields.

Biology is a little harder to change than society which was the question. Are you ok with using biology to justify inequality in wages or employment?

I'm absolutely aware what the op's question was, so stop patronising me. It goes without saying, that I'm for wage equality - but terms & conditions apply.

However for example it's debatable if paternity and maternity leave should be equal. "

Ok so the reproductive abilities of women shouldn't be the basis discrimination in employment or wages. In what areas can it be used for either positive or negative discrimination? Should it make a difference when it comes to criminal justice? what about the issue of child custody and visitation?

Very sorry that you feel patronised, DH.

The OP covers a very broad area. It is probably better to examine some issues separately.

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By *xplicitMan
over a year ago

donegal


"Are men and women equal in every way???...can we not accept that we are different and yet value each other and our qualities equally??..

I think you're spot on. It's important to recognise our biological differences and value them and at the same time acknowledge that when we portray equal qualities that they are acknowledged equally in the professional field as well as with legal rights. I think we are moving in the right direction albeit slowly."

I think political correctness has somewhat prevented society differentiating between recognising equal values and acknowledging natural selection criteria..

.at 5'8" i was never going to play much basketball!!!!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Are men and women equal in every way???...can we not accept that we are different and yet value each other and our qualities equally??..

I think you're spot on. It's important to recognise our biological differences and value them and at the same time acknowledge that when we portray equal qualities that they are acknowledged equally in the professional field as well as with legal rights. I think we are moving in the right direction albeit slowly.

I think political correctness has somewhat prevented society differentiating between recognising equal values and acknowledging natural selection criteria..

.at 5'8" i was never going to play much basketball!!!!"

I'm not sure how natural selection portrays itself in the professional world (non-basketball world at least). Natural selection often is linked to mutations that serve to propagate the species. I'm just wanting men and women to have equal rights, allowances and future possibilities in their professional fields. On a side note, I do think fathers deserve paternity leave on a par with their female counterparts. I think everything is getting a bit muddled in this debate.

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By *oghunter33Woman
over a year ago

on the hill NordWest of


"Are men and women equal in every way???...can we not accept that we are different and yet value each other and our qualities equally??..

I think you're spot on. It's important to recognise our biological differences and value them and at the same time acknowledge that when we portray equal qualities that they are acknowledged equally in the professional field as well as with legal rights. I think we are moving in the right direction albeit slowly.

I think political correctness has somewhat prevented society differentiating between recognising equal values and acknowledging natural selection criteria..

.at 5'8" i was never going to play much basketball!!!!

I'm not sure how natural selection portrays itself in the professional world (non-basketball world at least). Natural selection often is linked to mutations that serve to propagate the species. I'm just wanting men and women to have equal rights, allowances and future possibilities in their professional fields. On a side note, I do think fathers deserve paternity leave on a par with their female counterparts. I think everything is getting a bit muddled in this debate. "

I'm not against paternity leave, however it has to be recognised that the materinity leave is designed for the woman if there are prenatal complications and to recover from giving birth. As far as I know beside the nerves there isn't that much strain on the father. Some countries recognise a paternal leave which is equal to both gender - I've no idea where Ireland stands in this - and this one is designed to bond and care for the newborn.

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By *oghunter33Woman
over a year ago

on the hill NordWest of


"It won't until men until men have their periods, get pregnant and give birth.

That's biolgy, not society.

Oh I didn't know that!

All I said is that as long there are physical and biological differences there won't be gender equality in all fields.

Biology is a little harder to change than society which was the question. Are you ok with using biology to justify inequality in wages or employment?

I'm absolutely aware what the op's question was, so stop patronising me. It goes without saying, that I'm for wage equality - but terms & conditions apply.

However for example it's debatable if paternity and maternity leave should be equal.

Ok so the reproductive abilities of women shouldn't be the basis discrimination in employment or wages. In what areas can it be used for either positive or negative discrimination? Should it make a difference when it comes to criminal justice? what about the issue of child custody and visitation?

Very sorry that you feel patronised, DH.

The OP covers a very broad area. It is probably better to examine some issues separately."

I agree the op covers a huge area regarding equality and each area has to be looked at separately.

In terms of legal justice there shouldn't be any difference in my opinion and that includes child custody.

Regarding work, it's getting way more difficult. In general there should be gender equality but there are jobs out there that aren't suitable for both gender and that has to be acknowledged too, that's where the biological differences have to be embraced. And here we end up with my first post.

As for positive discrimination there's no such thing.

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By *oggoneMan
over a year ago

Derry


"It won't until men until men have their periods, get pregnant and give birth.

That's biolgy, not society.

Oh I didn't know that!

All I said is that as long there are physical and biological differences there won't be gender equality in all fields.

Biology is a little harder to change than society which was the question. Are you ok with using biology to justify inequality in wages or employment?

I'm absolutely aware what the op's question was, so stop patronising me. It goes without saying, that I'm for wage equality - but terms & conditions apply.

However for example it's debatable if paternity and maternity leave should be equal.

Ok so the reproductive abilities of women shouldn't be the basis discrimination in employment or wages. In what areas can it be used for either positive or negative discrimination? Should it make a difference when it comes to criminal justice? what about the issue of child custody and visitation?

Very sorry that you feel patronised, DH.

The OP covers a very broad area. It is probably better to examine some issues separately.

I agree the op covers a huge area regarding equality and each area has to be looked at separately.

In terms of legal justice there shouldn't be any difference in my opinion and that includes child custody.

Regarding work, it's getting way more difficult. In general there should be gender equality but there are jobs out there that aren't suitable for both gender and that has to be acknowledged too, that's where the biological differences have to be embraced. And here we end up with my first post.

As for positive discrimination there's no such thing. "

As a rule, most organisations will steer clear of the term. In the US the term is Affirmative Action, the UK uses positive action. The only place and time where I heard positive discrimination used was with PSNI in N.Ireland to address a religious imbalance in the workforce (wow, who knew). The oireachtas has played with this issue most recently the women's caucus was calling for legislation to set gender quotas in local elections. The UK employment law is a minefield but does allow 'protected characteristics' including: Age, Disability, Gender Reassignment, Pregnancy & Maternity, Race, Religion, Sex and Sexual Orientation.

Men and Women are treated very differently by the criminal justice system.

One final question, this one is tricky and hypothetical. What should be the man's rights in an accidental pregnancy?

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By *oghunter33Woman
over a year ago

on the hill NordWest of


"It won't until men until men have their periods, get pregnant and give birth.

That's biolgy, not society.

Oh I didn't know that!

All I said is that as long there are physical and biological differences there won't be gender equality in all fields.

Biology is a little harder to change than society which was the question. Are you ok with using biology to justify inequality in wages or employment?

I'm absolutely aware what the op's question was, so stop patronising me. It goes without saying, that I'm for wage equality - but terms & conditions apply.

However for example it's debatable if paternity and maternity leave should be equal.

Ok so the reproductive abilities of women shouldn't be the basis discrimination in employment or wages. In what areas can it be used for either positive or negative discrimination? Should it make a difference when it comes to criminal justice? what about the issue of child custody and visitation?

Very sorry that you feel patronised, DH.

The OP covers a very broad area. It is probably better to examine some issues separately.

I agree the op covers a huge area regarding equality and each area has to be looked at separately.

In terms of legal justice there shouldn't be any difference in my opinion and that includes child custody.

Regarding work, it's getting way more difficult. In general there should be gender equality but there are jobs out there that aren't suitable for both gender and that has to be acknowledged too, that's where the biological differences have to be embraced. And here we end up with my first post.

As for positive discrimination there's no such thing.

As a rule, most organisations will steer clear of the term. In the US the term is Affirmative Action, the UK uses positive action. The only place and time where I heard positive discrimination used was with PSNI in N.Ireland to address a religious imbalance in the workforce (wow, who knew). The oireachtas has played with this issue most recently the women's caucus was calling for legislation to set gender quotas in local elections. The UK employment law is a minefield but does allow 'protected characteristics' including: Age, Disability, Gender Reassignment, Pregnancy & Maternity, Race, Religion, Sex and Sexual Orientation.

Men and Women are treated very differently by the criminal justice system.

One final question, this one is tricky and hypothetical. What should be the man's rights in an accidental pregnancy? "

I can't see any difference between accidental and intentional pregnancy. It needs two for procreation, therefore both should carry the responsibility and have equal rights to bring up the child.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Accidental pregnancy? As in, does the man have a right to insist on an abortion? (My interpretation of the question)

I don't think so. If you imagine semen as a gift, once it's given, you have no right to it anymore. You can't ask for it back and you can't undo the situation. Same principal as giving a winning lottery ticket or scratch card that turns out to be a big winner.

There are millions of permutations and combinations. With regard to abortion, I've never once told a man or woman what to do with their body so I find it so bizarre that here in Ireland abortion is illegal. And anyone of reasonable means ignores this and takes a flight to England for an abortion. In fact the main group (maybe even the only) of people this hurts is poor women who can't afford to do it.

So remember to vote! Repeal the 8th, it's embarrassing that our constitution punitive when it comes to a woman's rights regarding her own body.

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By *lippery-when-wet-180Woman
over a year ago

South Dub


"It won't until men until men have their periods, get pregnant and give birth.

That's biolgy, not society.

Oh I didn't know that!

All I said is that as long there are physical and biological differences there won't be gender equality in all fields.

Biology is a little harder to change than society which was the question. Are you ok with using biology to justify inequality in wages or employment?

I'm absolutely aware what the op's question was, so stop patronising me. It goes without saying, that I'm for wage equality - but terms & conditions apply.

However for example it's debatable if paternity and maternity leave should be equal.

Ok so the reproductive abilities of women shouldn't be the basis discrimination in employment or wages. In what areas can it be used for either positive or negative discrimination? Should it make a difference when it comes to criminal justice? what about the issue of child custody and visitation?

Very sorry that you feel patronised, DH.

The OP covers a very broad area. It is probably better to examine some issues separately.

I agree the op covers a huge area regarding equality and each area has to be looked at separately.

In terms of legal justice there shouldn't be any difference in my opinion and that includes child custody.

Regarding work, it's getting way more difficult. In general there should be gender equality but there are jobs out there that aren't suitable for both gender and that has to be acknowledged too, that's where the biological differences have to be embraced. And here we end up with my first post.

As for positive discrimination there's no such thing.

As a rule, most organisations will steer clear of the term. In the US the term is Affirmative Action, the UK uses positive action. The only place and time where I heard positive discrimination used was with PSNI in N.Ireland to address a religious imbalance in the workforce (wow, who knew). The oireachtas has played with this issue most recently the women's caucus was calling for legislation to set gender quotas in local elections. The UK employment law is a minefield but does allow 'protected characteristics' including: Age, Disability, Gender Reassignment, Pregnancy & Maternity, Race, Religion, Sex and Sexual Orientation.

Men and Women are treated very differently by the criminal justice system.

One final question, this one is tricky and hypothetical. What should be the man's rights in an accidental pregnancy? "

What do you mean rights to an “accidental” pregnancy? dip your wick there’s no “accident” about it

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By *lippery-when-wet-180Woman
over a year ago

South Dub


"Accidental pregnancy? As in, does the man have a right to insist on an abortion? (My interpretation of the question)

I don't think so. If you imagine semen as a gift, once it's given, you have no right to it anymore. You can't ask for it back and you can't undo the situation. Same principal as giving a winning lottery ticket or scratch card that turns out to be a big winner.

There are millions of permutations and combinations. With regard to abortion, I've never once told a man or woman what to do with their body so I find it so bizarre that here in Ireland abortion is illegal. And anyone of reasonable means ignores this and takes a flight to England for an abortion. In fact the main group (maybe even the only) of people this hurts is poor women who can't afford to do it.

So remember to vote! Repeal the 8th, it's embarrassing that our constitution punitive when it comes to a woman's rights regarding her own body.

"

Totally agree with you

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By *oghunter33Woman
over a year ago

on the hill NordWest of


"Accidental pregnancy? As in, does the man have a right to insist on an abortion? (My interpretation of the question)

I don't think so. If you imagine semen as a gift, once it's given, you have no right to it anymore. You can't ask for it back and you can't undo the situation. Same principal as giving a winning lottery ticket or scratch card that turns out to be a big winner.

There are millions of permutations and combinations. With regard to abortion, I've never once told a man or woman what to do with their body so I find it so bizarre that here in Ireland abortion is illegal. And anyone of reasonable means ignores this and takes a flight to England for an abortion. In fact the main group (maybe even the only) of people this hurts is poor women who can't afford to do it.

So remember to vote! Repeal the 8th, it's embarrassing that our constitution punitive when it comes to a woman's rights regarding her own body.

"

What about if she wants an abortion and he wants the child?

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By *lippery-when-wet-180Woman
over a year ago

South Dub


"Accidental pregnancy? As in, does the man have a right to insist on an abortion? (My interpretation of the question)

I don't think so. If you imagine semen as a gift, once it's given, you have no right to it anymore. You can't ask for it back and you can't undo the situation. Same principal as giving a winning lottery ticket or scratch card that turns out to be a big winner.

There are millions of permutations and combinations. With regard to abortion, I've never once told a man or woman what to do with their body so I find it so bizarre that here in Ireland abortion is illegal. And anyone of reasonable means ignores this and takes a flight to England for an abortion. In fact the main group (maybe even the only) of people this hurts is poor women who can't afford to do it.

So remember to vote! Repeal the 8th, it's embarrassing that our constitution punitive when it comes to a woman's rights regarding her own body.

What about if she wants an abortion and he wants the child? "

For me I don’t think he can dictate what she does with her body. He cannot make her give up her life to birth a child she doesn’t want. Would be more heartache for everyone involved if she did carry the baby and gave up to him and the child grows up without their mam

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By *adame BWoman
over a year ago

C'est moi Boudoir

I am reading the term accidental as unplanned.

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By *adame BWoman
over a year ago

C'est moi Boudoir

Pros and cons for both sides of the argument but take emotions out and look at equality again. If the man is expected to be responsible for an unplanned pregnancy that gets to birth stage surely he has a say from conception to birth then, planned or otherwise. I am merely pointing out the equality not stating opinion.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Accidental pregnancy? As in, does the man have a right to insist on an abortion? (My interpretation of the question)

I don't think so. If you imagine semen as a gift, once it's given, you have no right to it anymore. You can't ask for it back and you can't undo the situation. Same principal as giving a winning lottery ticket or scratch card that turns out to be a big winner.

There are millions of permutations and combinations. With regard to abortion, I've never once told a man or woman what to do with their body so I find it so bizarre that here in Ireland abortion is illegal. And anyone of reasonable means ignores this and takes a flight to England for an abortion. In fact the main group (maybe even the only) of people this hurts is poor women who can't afford to do it.

So remember to vote! Repeal the 8th, it's embarrassing that our constitution punitive when it comes to a woman's rights regarding her own body.

What about if she wants an abortion and he wants the child? "

Same thing, not his body, not his choice.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Pros and cons for both sides of the argument but take emotions out and look at equality again. If the man is expected to be responsible for an unplanned pregnancy that gets to birth stage surely he has a say from conception to birth then, planned or otherwise. I am merely pointing out the equality not stating opinion. "

He absolutely does have a say, but not when it comes to somebody else's body. Equality of body autonomy outranks personal opinions or fear of child maintenance payments.

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By *ohndunboyneMan
over a year ago

Dunboyne & Dublin

If it wasn't planned, I think the choice is the woman's, particularly where they aren't in a "binding" relationship, or at the least, it wasn't discussed beforehand.

Sorry if that's simplistic, just my view.

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago

Glad to see the discussion still going. I deliberately typed the original post as broad as I think it encapsulates myriad topics within. I chose one or two "trivial" examples to put some light nuance in the potential debate .

There has been some great points raised and some that for me are very hard to decipher an objective right or wrong. The unplanned pregnancy and it's multifarious moral complications that come with it.

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By *adame BWoman
over a year ago

C'est moi Boudoir


"Pros and cons for both sides of the argument but take emotions out and look at equality again. If the man is expected to be responsible for an unplanned pregnancy that gets to birth stage surely he has a say from conception to birth then, planned or otherwise. I am merely pointing out the equality not stating opinion.

He absolutely does have a say, but not when it comes to somebody else's body. Equality of body autonomy outranks personal opinions or fear of child maintenance payments. "

I was looking at it from the point where the guy is asking the woman to keep the baby but I agree with what you said. A woman's say over her body does outrank the guy's say in this instance but the guy does have a say to some degree which is the point I was making, that's gender differences not inequality.

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By *adame BWoman
over a year ago

C'est moi Boudoir


"Glad to see the discussion still going. I deliberately typed the original post as broad as I think it encapsulates myriad topics within. I chose one or two "trivial" examples to put some light nuance in the potential debate .

There has been some great points raised and some that for me are very hard to decipher an objective right or wrong. The unplanned pregnancy and it's multifarious moral complications that come with it.

"

A great one as always Kate

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By *adame BWoman
over a year ago

C'est moi Boudoir


"Accidental pregnancy? As in, does the man have a right to insist on an abortion? (My interpretation of the question)

I don't think so. If you imagine semen as a gift, once it's given, you have no right to it anymore. You can't ask for it back and you can't undo the situation. Same principal as giving a winning lottery ticket or scratch card that turns out to be a big winner.

There are millions of permutations and combinations. With regard to abortion, I've never once told a man or woman what to do with their body so I find it so bizarre that here in Ireland abortion is illegal. And anyone of reasonable means ignores this and takes a flight to England for an abortion. In fact the main group (maybe even the only) of people this hurts is poor women who can't afford to do it.

So remember to vote! Repeal the 8th, it's embarrassing that our constitution punitive when it comes to a woman's rights regarding her own body.

"

Agree on the 8th on various levels. When I was having my hysterectomy, despite being separated I had to get my ex husband's signature of consent for the Dr's to remove my womb!!!! How bizarre is that.

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By *eanontiWoman
over a year ago

Limerick


"On the fair custody of children part I can tell you yes men can have a fair and equal custody even through the courts. OK I was never married but i managed to get a fair maintenance and joint custody and this was without having to employ a solicitor I fought my own case and got everything on par with my ex. I know a woman who had 2 children with her then bf. were together the first few years of the kids lives. he then cheated on her, she threw him out and now he doesn't see the kids at all. is she entitled to money from him?

Why doesn't he see his kids?

Maintenance isn't pay to see. Even when my ex stopped me from seeing my daughter I still paid and I still travelled back from the UK to see her even though I knew I'd be told no when I got to her door all while waiting for my date in court. When the judge saw all the receipts and the fact I did everything in my power to maintain and see my child my ex didn't stand a chance. Too many men (my friends included) think that if you don't see your kids you don't have to pay which is a joke as kids cost money to feed dress and look after the only person who suffers when you don't pay is the child they supposedly love. "

I wish more men had your attitude. Maintenance is money for people like myself to out and have fun. It's to cover the bills and should never be looked on as anything more. And btw any access he applied for I agreed to and matches etc. Some of it broke my heart but it wasn't about me

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

[Removed by poster at 18/11/17 01:21:39]

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


"

A great one as always Kate"

Thank you for being complimemtary as always. You are too kind x

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By *eanontiWoman
over a year ago

Limerick


"Accidental pregnancy? As in, does the man have a right to insist on an abortion? (My interpretation of the question)

I don't think so. If you imagine semen as a gift, once it's given, you have no right to it anymore. You can't ask for it back and you can't undo the situation. Same principal as giving a winning lottery ticket or scratch card that turns out to be a big winner.

There are millions of permutations and combinations. With regard to abortion, I've never once told a man or woman what to do with their body so I find it so bizarre that here in Ireland abortion is illegal. And anyone of reasonable means ignores this and takes a flight to England for an abortion. In fact the main group (maybe even the only) of people this hurts is poor women who can't afford to do it.

So remember to vote! Repeal the 8th, it's embarrassing that our constitution punitive when it comes to a woman's rights regarding her own body.

Agree on the 8th on various levels. When I was having my hysterectomy, despite being separated I had to get my ex husband's signature of consent for the Dr's to remove my womb!!!! How bizarre is that. "

That's still the same btw. But, if he wants the snip. You don't have to consent...................

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By *eanontiWoman
over a year ago

Limerick

You've opened a can of worms Kate. I've just read every post in it. Well done.

Repealing the 8th might just be a start

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


"You've opened a can of worms Kate. I've just read every post in it. Well done.

Repealing the 8th might just be a start

"

Indeed I have it appears. I've found it fascinating for sure !!

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By *xyzptlk088Man
over a year ago

Galway


"Accidental pregnancy? As in, does the man have a right to insist on an abortion? (My interpretation of the question)

I don't think so. If you imagine semen as a gift, once it's given, you have no right to it anymore. You can't ask for it back and you can't undo the situation. Same principal as giving a winning lottery ticket or scratch card that turns out to be a big winner.

There are millions of permutations and combinations. With regard to abortion, I've never once told a man or woman what to do with their body so I find it so bizarre that here in Ireland abortion is illegal. And anyone of reasonable means ignores this and takes a flight to England for an abortion. In fact the main group (maybe even the only) of people this hurts is poor women who can't afford to do it.

So remember to vote! Repeal the 8th, it's embarrassing that our constitution punitive when it comes to a woman's rights regarding her own body.

"

So sperm is a gift? What about looking at it another way. I go to a vending machine (the female) I insert my money (the sperm) who then owns the product that comes from the machine?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

The vending machine still owns the money.

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By *xyzptlk088Man
over a year ago

Galway


"The vending machine still owns the money."
but what comes out is mine

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Actually no. If you buy a in a vending machine, you get that . But you don't own the company coca cola nor do you get the recipe for it.

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By *xyzptlk088Man
over a year ago

Galway


"Actually no. If you buy a in a vending machine, you get that . But you don't own the company coca cola nor do you get the recipe for it. "

the physical can that exits the machine is mine though

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By *xyzptlk088Man
over a year ago

Galway


"Actually no. If you buy a in a vending machine, you get that . But you don't own the company coca cola nor do you get the recipe for it. "

and where in my post did I say anything about owning everything related to the item that comes from the machine? you a leftie by any chance?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Your comparing children to cans of , women to vending machines and sperm to coins. I was unaware you were going to take your analogy so seriously.

You don't get the coins back even if the vending machine doesn't deliver. But yes, you get to own the (if the vending machine does deliver). No, you don't get to make changes to the vending machine (even if it doesn't give you the product you want). You have no ownership of said machine nor any right to make any changes to said vending machine.

If your sperm creates a child, you have paternal rights in almost all cases, you don't own a child though. Best of luck.

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By *ontbesillywrapyourwillyMan
over a year ago

Tipperary

if a guy gets a girl pregnant should he have a right whether the baby is kept or not? it's a tough one. it's her body, she carries the baby but he put it there. I know in the morning if it happened to me it would be 100 % her decision

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By *oghunter33Woman
over a year ago

on the hill NordWest of


"if a guy gets a girl pregnant should he have a right whether the baby is kept or not? it's a tough one. it's her body, she carries the baby but he put it there. I know in the morning if it happened to me it would be 100 % her decision "

Lol He didn't put it there. Sperm are not little tiny babies.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Just on the unwanted pregnancies issue once in this country I’d have agreed that there was no choice but with the morning after pill being available over the counter I don’t understand if somebody doesn’t want a baby why they don’t avail of it. Especially women in jobs that they know having a baby and being out on maternity leave etc would hinder their progression. I know there are exceptions but if you want to be treated equally and compete equally then it has to be putting in same effort. That’s my take on it.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Just on the unwanted pregnancies issue once in this country I’d have agreed that there was no choice but with the morning after pill being available over the counter I don’t understand if somebody doesn’t want a baby why they don’t avail of it. Especially women in jobs that they know having a baby and being out on maternity leave etc would hinder their progression. I know there are exceptions but if you want to be treated equally and compete equally then it has to be putting in same effort. That’s my take on it. "

I guess you have to be born in order to compete equally so being punitive when it comes to women that take maternity leave is somewhat hypocritical. This is one of the main reasons for having equal paternity leave.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Just on the unwanted pregnancies issue once in this country I’d have agreed that there was no choice but with the morning after pill being available over the counter I don’t understand if somebody doesn’t want a baby why they don’t avail of it. Especially women in jobs that they know having a baby and being out on maternity leave etc would hinder their progression. I know there are exceptions but if you want to be treated equally and compete equally then it has to be putting in same effort. That’s my take on it.

I guess you have to be born in order to compete equally so being punitive when it comes to women that take maternity leave is somewhat hypocritical. This is one of the main reasons for having equal paternity leave. "

No just speaking from my own experience as I’ve said I’m sure there are exceptions and circumstances it’s just my opinion

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

What about the bodily autonomy of the future human..... Just saying

I'm very confused on the whole issue.

As sperm is now a gift I'll be extra jolly and generous with all my "friends" this Xmas

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By *ontbesillywrapyourwillyMan
over a year ago

Tipperary


"if a guy gets a girl pregnant should he have a right whether the baby is kept or not? it's a tough one. it's her body, she carries the baby but he put it there. I know in the morning if it happened to me it would be 100 % her decision

Lol He didn't put it there. Sperm are not little tiny babies. "
he did in a nutshell. if he used a condom chances are it wouldn't have happened

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By *oghunter33Woman
over a year ago

on the hill NordWest of


"if a guy gets a girl pregnant should he have a right whether the baby is kept or not? it's a tough one. it's her body, she carries the baby but he put it there. I know in the morning if it happened to me it would be 100 % her decision

Lol He didn't put it there. Sperm are not little tiny babies. he did in a nutshell. if he used a condom chances are it wouldn't have happened "

It needs the female egg, the other genetic half of the future child. Procreation equality!!!

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By *oghunter33Woman
over a year ago

on the hill NordWest of


"Just on the unwanted pregnancies issue once in this country I’d have agreed that there was no choice but with the morning after pill being available over the counter I don’t understand if somebody doesn’t want a baby why they don’t avail of it. Especially women in jobs that they know having a baby and being out on maternity leave etc would hinder their progression. I know there are exceptions but if you want to be treated equally and compete equally then it has to be putting in same effort. That’s my take on it. "

The morning after pill only applies when you're aware that your contraception has failed or when you were stupid enough to have sex without contraception. The morning after pill doesn't work in every case.

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By *ontbesillywrapyourwillyMan
over a year ago

Tipperary


"if a guy gets a girl pregnant should he have a right whether the baby is kept or not? it's a tough one. it's her body, she carries the baby but he put it there. I know in the morning if it happened to me it would be 100 % her decision

Lol He didn't put it there. Sperm are not little tiny babies. he did in a nutshell. if he used a condom chances are it wouldn't have happened

It needs the female egg, the other genetic half of the future child. Procreation equality!!! "
of course it does but she can't fully control that, he can control what he produces

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By *oghunter33Woman
over a year ago

on the hill NordWest of


"if a guy gets a girl pregnant should he have a right whether the baby is kept or not? it's a tough one. it's her body, she carries the baby but he put it there. I know in the morning if it happened to me it would be 100 % her decision

Lol He didn't put it there. Sperm are not little tiny babies. he did in a nutshell. if he used a condom chances are it wouldn't have happened

It needs the female egg, the other genetic half of the future child. Procreation equality!!! of course it does but she can't fully control that, he can control what he produces "

Wtf are you talking about?

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By *ontbesillywrapyourwillyMan
over a year ago

Tipperary


"if a guy gets a girl pregnant should he have a right whether the baby is kept or not? it's a tough one. it's her body, she carries the baby but he put it there. I know in the morning if it happened to me it would be 100 % her decision

Lol He didn't put it there. Sperm are not little tiny babies. he did in a nutshell. if he used a condom chances are it wouldn't have happened

It needs the female egg, the other genetic half of the future child. Procreation equality!!! of course it does but she can't fully control that, he can control what he produces

Wtf are you talking about? "
if a man uses a condom a pregnancy is avoided. simple as that. if he doesn't and ejaculates inside her there is a chance she will become pregnant. a man can control what he does. a woman doesn't know exactly when sperm would be fertalised. at the end of the day both parties are responsible but in the case of a pregnancy, for a man just use a condom

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By *oghunter33Woman
over a year ago

on the hill NordWest of


"if a guy gets a girl pregnant should he have a right whether the baby is kept or not? it's a tough one. it's her body, she carries the baby but he put it there. I know in the morning if it happened to me it would be 100 % her decision

Lol He didn't put it there. Sperm are not little tiny babies. he did in a nutshell. if he used a condom chances are it wouldn't have happened

It needs the female egg, the other genetic half of the future child. Procreation equality!!! of course it does but she can't fully control that, he can control what he produces

Wtf are you talking about? if a man uses a condom a pregnancy is avoided. simple as that. if he doesn't and ejaculates inside her there is a chance she will become pregnant. a man can control what he does. a woman doesn't know exactly when sperm would be fertalised. at the end of the day both parties are responsible but in the case of a pregnancy, for a man just use a condom "

Hahaha I can only laugh reading this. There's many contraception option for the women out there too, so she can be fully under control, I'd say even more so than a man. Contraception equality?!

Also some women can feel the ovulation, others know when they're most fertile days are and there methods to to find out when you're most fertile.

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By *ontbesillywrapyourwillyMan
over a year ago

Tipperary


"if a guy gets a girl pregnant should he have a right whether the baby is kept or not? it's a tough one. it's her body, she carries the baby but he put it there. I know in the morning if it happened to me it would be 100 % her decision

Lol He didn't put it there. Sperm are not little tiny babies. he did in a nutshell. if he used a condom chances are it wouldn't have happened

It needs the female egg, the other genetic half of the future child. Procreation equality!!! of course it does but she can't fully control that, he can control what he produces

Wtf are you talking about? if a man uses a condom a pregnancy is avoided. simple as that. if he doesn't and ejaculates inside her there is a chance she will become pregnant. a man can control what he does. a woman doesn't know exactly when sperm would be fertalised. at the end of the day both parties are responsible but in the case of a pregnancy, for a man just use a condom

Hahaha I can only laugh reading this. There's many contraception option for the women out there too, so she can be fully under control, I'd say even more so than a man. Contraception equality?!

Also some women can feel the ovulation, others know when they're most fertile days are and there methods to to find out when you're most fertile. "
were talking about condoms nothing else at this point.im on about a man saving himaelf. juat use a condom. so you know exactly when you're going to become pregnant?

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By *ontbesillywrapyourwillyMan
over a year ago

Tipperary

im out of here. match to go too. enjoy you're day

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By *aid backMan
over a year ago

by a lake with my rod out

I'm i reading this right you want men to have the choice of forcing abortions on women in the name of equality? .

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By *xyzptlk088Man
over a year ago

Galway


"Your comparing children to cans of , women to vending machines and sperm to coins. I was unaware you were going to take your analogy so seriously.

You don't get the coins back even if the vending machine doesn't deliver. But yes, you get to own the (if the vending machine does deliver). No, you don't get to make changes to the vending machine (even if it doesn't give you the product you want). You have no ownership of said machine nor any right to make any changes to said vending machine.

If your sperm creates a child, you have paternal rights in almost all cases, you don't own a child though. Best of luck.

"

I don't need luck life's already great

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By *oggoneMan
over a year ago

Derry


"I'm i reading this right you want men to have the choice of forcing abortions on women in the name of equality? ."

I certainly don't. I can't speak for anyone else. I cited the example deliberately to get comments from both sides of the house. I think that this issue has to looked at in context. Abortion access, availability of contraception, sex education, fathers rights under law and other factors come into play. Accidental/unplanned/unwanted, pick which ever want, I wasn't trying to bias the debate

Kate, good post, thanks for raising it. I realise that we are only focusing on particular areas but hopefully it will cause people to think about the gender equality issue.

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By *longshottMan
over a year ago

Limerick

Equality is such a complex issue when both parties aren't identical.

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


"I'm i reading this right you want men to have the choice of forcing abortions on women in the name of equality? .

I certainly don't. I can't speak for anyone else. I cited the example deliberately to get comments from both sides of the house. I think that this issue has to looked at in context. Abortion access, availability of contraception, sex education, fathers rights under law and other factors come into play. Accidental/unplanned/unwanted, pick which ever want, I wasn't trying to bias the debate

Kate, good post, thanks for raising it. I realise that we are only focusing on particular areas but hopefully it will cause people to think about the gender equality issue."

Thank you. It's interesting tp see the diverse thoughts on here. It is a very broad subject as I've previously said and what has been discussed here so far is only a microcosm of what could be in reality.

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