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Ffm but with mmf dynamics??

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago

Is this at all achievable or am I just being greedy??

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By *j47Man
over a year ago

limerick


"Is this at all achievable or am I just being greedy??"

U mean u being greedy getting the attention of both or am I missing something

Serious question

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Would she have the strap on or you?

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By *hocko87Man
over a year ago

dublin

They are 2 different scenarios . Well you could have it with 2 couples meeting .

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago

Yep that's exactly it . . I get the attention of both . . The other f & male don't get intimate at all??

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago

It's just always assumed the guy will get attention of both females . . I don't see why the lady can't??

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By *j47Man
over a year ago

limerick


"Yep that's exactly it . . I get the attention of both . . The other f & male don't get intimate at all??"

I guess that's something that would have to be sussed out in setting up the meet between the three of u there are women here that like to play with women but not men. Having said that if u think unicorns are hard to find I'd say doo doo birds are harder

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

With a body like yours honey, you will get all the attention

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago

Ha ha doo doo birds. . Do u mean dodo . . & is that an actual term or did u just make that up???

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

If I understood you correctly..

Not for us, even in a ffm it's not the guy getting all the attention

Our idea or 3somes meet it's everyone giving and receiving pleasure

But maybe you might find a couple that they both are into giving more than receiving

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"If I understood you correctly..

Not for us, even in a ffm it's not the guy getting all the attention

Our idea or 3somes meet it's everyone giving and receiving pleasure

But maybe you might find a couple that they both are into giving more than receiving

"

Is that not standard?

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago

I like 3somes with all interacting too . . Different dynamics

Just had an amazing mmf experience recently (new for me) and was wondering how/if the dynamic could be recreated with a lady instead of a guy??

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Would you not try FFF?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I like 3somes with all interacting too . . Different dynamics

Just had an amazing mmf experience recently (new for me) and was wondering how/if the dynamic could be recreated with a lady instead of a guy??"

Yeah so a fff?? But the girls only giving pleasure to you, they can't play with each other?

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago

Fff is totally different . .

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Fff is totally different . . "

Is that not what you want?

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago

Lols no I'd want a full mash up then

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago

I'd want the girl & the guy . . Greedy I know

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By *j47Man
over a year ago

limerick


"Ha ha doo doo birds. . Do u mean dodo . . & is that an actual term or did u just make that up???"

Totally

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Lols no I'd want a full mash up then "

Im confused hahaha

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By *ustin-SiderMan
over a year ago

Belfast

Greedy!!!

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago

I'm actually giggling away here . . I think I've even confused myself at this stage

Maybe everyone should just come over to mine & we'll figure it out then

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I'd want the girl & the guy . . Greedy I know "

Oh OK not necessarily they need to be a couple just a girl and a guy giving you pleasure only

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I'd want the girl & the guy . . Greedy I know "

So you would just be soaking it up while they do the work?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I'm actually giggling away here . . I think I've even confused myself at this stage

Maybe everyone should just come over to mine & we'll figure it out then "

I like that idea!!!!!

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By *j47Man
over a year ago

limerick


"I'm actually giggling away here . . I think I've even confused myself at this stage

Maybe everyone should just come over to mine & we'll figure it out then "

But we can't play with each other just u

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I'm actually giggling away here . . I think I've even confused myself at this stage

Maybe everyone should just come over to mine & we'll figure it out then "

On the way now

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago

Lols i'll put some effort in too . . Just yep I'm their primary aim

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I'm actually giggling away here . . I think I've even confused myself at this stage

Maybe everyone should just come over to mine & we'll figure it out then

But we can't play with each other just u "

We just blindfold her...

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago

Thought that idea might go down well

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By *j47Man
over a year ago

limerick


"I'm actually giggling away here . . I think I've even confused myself at this stage

Maybe everyone should just come over to mine & we'll figure it out then

But we can't play with each other just u

We just blindfold her... "

And restrain her

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

There is an idea, blindfolds for all

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


"I'm actually giggling away here . . I think I've even confused myself at this stage

Maybe everyone should just come over to mine & we'll figure it out then

But we can't play with each other just u

We just blindfold her... "

Ha ha . . Lols I knew u were trouble!!!

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago

Ok . . This is not how I pictured this

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By *j47Man
over a year ago

limerick


"Ok . . This is not how I pictured this "

U want the candles and music don't u

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Ok . . This is not how I pictured this "

You just relax... We will pleasure you

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Ok . . This is not how I pictured this "

What did you picture because I'm confused

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

5 way? MFMFM

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By *igBlondeDommeWoman
over a year ago

middle of nowhere


"I'm actually giggling away here . . I think I've even confused myself at this stage

Maybe everyone should just come over to mine & we'll figure it out then

But we can't play with each other just u "

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By *igBlondeDommeWoman
over a year ago

middle of nowhere

Try a FFF with a dominant girl and a submissive girl.

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago

Lols u guys are not well

I'm off to hunt unicorns & dodo's . . & don't think for one second I'm going to share when I do find them

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By *j47Man
over a year ago

limerick


"Lols u guys are not well

I'm off to hunt unicorns & dodo's . . & don't think for one second I'm going to share when I do find them "

Greedy bitch

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


"Try a FFF with a dominant girl and a submissive girl. "

Just added to my bucket list

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By *j47Man
over a year ago

limerick


"Try a FFF with a dominant girl and a submissive girl. "

I wonder where she find a domme

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By *igBlondeDommeWoman
over a year ago

middle of nowhere


"Try a FFF with a dominant girl and a submissive girl.

I wonder where she find a domme "

Don't know Cj they are hard to find... like hens teeth.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I'm actually giggling away here . . I think I've even confused myself at this stage

Maybe everyone should just come over to mine & we'll figure it out then "

Ok booked my flight, what is ur address..

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Try a FFF with a dominant girl and a submissive girl.

I wonder where she find a domme

Don't know Cj they are hard to find... like hens teeth. "

Get the whip out

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By *ohnandGemCouple
over a year ago

Louth/Meath/Dublin

It's an interesting scenario but not really for us.

We're here primarily for G to explore her options so in a MFF we would all be getting pleasure from each other. It's pointless for us otherwise.

But I wouldn't begrudge you for wanting it! I wouldn't turn down an MFF where I was getting all the attention!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

With the right folk anything can work

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I doubt it's overly common on here but we have had this experience before with a couple.... Basically none of the other three had interest in each other only me so I was tied to a bed and the rest is history it was amazeballs but then I am a greedy bitch

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By *ocbrownMan
over a year ago

Kilkenny/Waterford


"I doubt it's overly common on here but we have had this experience before with a couple.... Basically none of the other three had interest in each other only me so I was tied to a bed and the rest is history it was amazeballs but then I am a greedy bitch "

Sounds like great fun

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By *ustin-SiderMan
over a year ago

Belfast

Apollonia how about we just get you two pre op transexuals instead? Between their boobs and cocks it'll be like two men and two women for you.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I think you'd need a dominant and submissive. Most likely male sub female dominant.

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By *ustin-SiderMan
over a year ago

Belfast


"I think you'd need a dominant and submissive. Most likely male sub female dominant. "

I'll volunteer as male sub just for a bit of role reversal for once.

Blonde Domme you're up. Let's do this.

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By *hocko87Man
over a year ago

dublin

Exactly what I said 2 women and 2 guys .all having fun together .

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Love the sound of this

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


"It's an interesting scenario but not really for us.

We're here primarily for G to explore her options so in a MFF we would all be getting pleasure from each other. It's pointless for us otherwise.

But I wouldn't begrudge you for wanting it! I wouldn't turn down an MFF where I was getting all the attention!"

Would this not be the ultimate for her??

Me teasing, kissing, caressing, nibbling, pleasuring, tasting her . . (Too early to go further) . . Sharing her with you? She gets the best of both of us

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


"Apollonia how about we just get you two pre op transexuals instead? Between their boobs and cocks it'll be like two men and two women for you. "

I do often wonder if this would be the ultimate for a bi lady?? Unfortunately I am of the wrong gender . . U'll find transgender ladies are straight & therefore like guys :/

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


"I doubt it's overly common on here but we have had this experience before with a couple.... Basically none of the other three had interest in each other only me so I was tied to a bed and the rest is history it was amazeballs but then I am a greedy bitch "

Lols I assume they weren't a 'couple' . . with no interest in each other

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


"I think you'd need a dominant and submissive. Most likely male sub female dominant.

I'll volunteer as male sub just for a bit of role reversal for once.

Blonde Domme you're up. Let's do this. "

Lols . . This is getting way too complicated!!!

Just a nice girl who doesn't want to have sex with a guy is all I need

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By *o hassleMan
over a year ago

moira


"It's just always assumed the guy will get attention of both females . . I don't see why the lady can't??"

Have played this dynamic a few times..

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By *ohnandGemCouple
over a year ago

Louth/Meath/Dublin


"It's an interesting scenario but not really for us.

We're here primarily for G to explore her options so in a MFF we would all be getting pleasure from each other. It's pointless for us otherwise.

But I wouldn't begrudge you for wanting it! I wouldn't turn down an MFF where I was getting all the attention!

Would this not be the ultimate for her??

Me teasing, kissing, caressing, nibbling, pleasuring, tasting her . . (Too early to go further) . . Sharing her with you? She gets the best of both of us

"

You make a very good point.

And you're on our hotlist.

If you'd like to discuss this further don't be afraid to message us.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I think you'd need a dominant and submissive. Most likely male sub female dominant.

I'll volunteer as male sub just for a bit of role reversal for once.

Blonde Domme you're up. Let's do this.

Lols . . This is getting way too complicated!!!

Just a nice girl who doesn't want to have sex with a guy is all I need "

I'm sure at least on woman on the site can help with this. Your mailbox has probably overloaded with male mail

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

[Removed by poster at 16/08/17 10:17:16]

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By *xplicitMan
over a year ago

donegal

Did this before..worked great...tricky to leave the other girl alone i have to admit..lol...but was a great night..

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


"It's an interesting scenario but not really for us.

We're here primarily for G to explore her options so in a MFF we would all be getting pleasure from each other. It's pointless for us otherwise.

But I wouldn't begrudge you for wanting it! I wouldn't turn down an MFF where I was getting all the attention!

Would this not be the ultimate for her??

Me teasing, kissing, caressing, nibbling, pleasuring, tasting her . . (Too early to go further) . . Sharing her with you? She gets the best of both of us

You make a very good point.

And you're on our hotlist.

If you'd like to discuss this further don't be afraid to message us. "

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


"Did this before..worked great...tricky to leave the other girl alone i have to admit..lol...but was a great night.. "

Lols . . I bet!!

At least u are proof I'm not alone in wanting this scenario

Feel fee to send the lady in question my way

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By *ustin-SiderMan
over a year ago

Belfast


"Apollonia how about we just get you two pre op transexuals instead? Between their boobs and cocks it'll be like two men and two women for you.

I do often wonder if this would be the ultimate for a bi lady?? Unfortunately I am of the wrong gender . . U'll find transgender ladies are straight & therefore like guys :/"

You'd be surprised. There's quite a few on here that like both men and women.

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By *ustin-SiderMan
over a year ago

Belfast


"I think you'd need a dominant and submissive. Most likely male sub female dominant.

I'll volunteer as male sub just for a bit of role reversal for once.

Blonde Domme you're up. Let's do this.

Lols . . This is getting way too complicated!!!

Just a nice girl who doesn't want to have sex with a guy is all I need "

Awwwww spoilsport.

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By *igBlondeDommeWoman
over a year ago

middle of nowhere


"I think you'd need a dominant and submissive. Most likely male sub female dominant.

I'll volunteer as male sub just for a bit of role reversal for once.

Blonde Domme you're up. Let's do this. "

Get yer coat Dom. ..

What a duo...

Domme &Dommer

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By *igBlondeDommeWoman
over a year ago

middle of nowhere

Apollonia I hope you find what your looking for. I reckon you're in the right place. X

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By *ustin-SiderMan
over a year ago

Belfast


"I think you'd need a dominant and submissive. Most likely male sub female dominant.

I'll volunteer as male sub just for a bit of role reversal for once.

Blonde Domme you're up. Let's do this.

Get yer coat Dom. ..

What a duo...

Domme &Dommer "

What a duo is right.

Hmmmmm. That's actually one for me to add to bucket list now, team up with a Domme to dom the shit out of a few subs.

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By *igBlondeDommeWoman
over a year ago

middle of nowhere


"I think you'd need a dominant and submissive. Most likely male sub female dominant.

I'll volunteer as male sub just for a bit of role reversal for once.

Blonde Domme you're up. Let's do this.

Get yer coat Dom. ..

What a duo...

Domme &Dommer

What a duo is right.

Hmmmmm. That's actually one for me to add to bucket list now, team up with a Domme to dom the shit out of a few subs. "

Rephrase that please lmao.

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By *ustin-SiderMan
over a year ago

Belfast


"I think you'd need a dominant and submissive. Most likely male sub female dominant.

I'll volunteer as male sub just for a bit of role reversal for once.

Blonde Domme you're up. Let's do this.

Get yer coat Dom. ..

What a duo...

Domme &Dommer

What a duo is right.

Hmmmmm. That's actually one for me to add to bucket list now, team up with a Domme to dom the shit out of a few subs.

Rephrase that please lmao."

Ewwwwwww.

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By *igBlondeDommeWoman
over a year ago

middle of nowhere


"I think you'd need a dominant and submissive. Most likely male sub female dominant.

I'll volunteer as male sub just for a bit of role reversal for once.

Blonde Domme you're up. Let's do this.

Get yer coat Dom. ..

What a duo...

Domme &Dommer

What a duo is right.

Hmmmmm. That's actually one for me to add to bucket list now, team up with a Domme to dom the shit out of a few subs.

Rephrase that please lmao.

Ewwwwwww. "

Exactly.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I think you'd need a dominant and submissive. Most likely male sub female dominant.

I'll volunteer as male sub just for a bit of role reversal for once.

Blonde Domme you're up. Let's do this.

Get yer coat Dom. ..

What a duo...

Domme &Dommer "

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By *igBlondeDommeWoman
over a year ago

middle of nowhere


"I think you'd need a dominant and submissive. Most likely male sub female dominant.

I'll volunteer as male sub just for a bit of role reversal for once.

Blonde Domme you're up. Let's do this.

Get yer coat Dom. ..

What a duo...

Domme &Dommer

"

I'm quiet proud of myself for that... hee hee

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Each to their own but as a single female it doesn't sound like an appealing meet to me. But I'm sure there's something for everyone on here

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By *ustin-SiderMan
over a year ago

Belfast


"I think you'd need a dominant and submissive. Most likely male sub female dominant.

I'll volunteer as male sub just for a bit of role reversal for once.

Blonde Domme you're up. Let's do this.

Get yer coat Dom. ..

What a duo...

Domme &Dommer

I'm quiet proud of myself for that... hee hee "

The movie should be a best seller.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Yep that's exactly it . . I get the attention of both . . The other f & male don't get intimate at all??"

Well I'm assuming that's be the case if you met with a couple with a bi woman. Both would be eager to get their hands on fresh meat :P

That was the case anytime I had ffm with a partner

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I think you'd need a dominant and submissive. Most likely male sub female dominant.

I'll volunteer as male sub just for a bit of role reversal for once.

Blonde Domme you're up. Let's do this.

Get yer coat Dom. ..

What a duo...

Domme &Dommer

I'm quiet proud of myself for that... hee hee "

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Yep that's exactly it . . I get the attention of both . . The other f & male don't get intimate at all??

Well I'm assuming that's be the case if you met with a couple with a bi woman. Both would be eager to get their hands on fresh meat :P

That was the case anytime I had ffm with a partner"

It's not always like that... For me as a bi girl .. I like to receive same amount of attention from My guy and the girl.

Probably that's why Im not to much into those dom,sub play... Equality all The way for us.

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By *igBlondeDommeWoman
over a year ago

middle of nowhere


"I think you'd need a dominant and submissive. Most likely male sub female dominant.

I'll volunteer as male sub just for a bit of role reversal for once.

Blonde Domme you're up. Let's do this.

Get yer coat Dom. ..

What a duo...

Domme &Dommer

I'm quiet proud of myself for that... hee hee

The movie should be a best seller. "

Ohhh are we making a movie?

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By *irtypair00Couple
over a year ago

Dublin


"It's just always assumed the guy will get attention of both females . . I don't see why the lady can't??"

I can only speak for us , but its only natural that when we meet a single woman we both pleasure her and she would get lots of attention. But we are all there to have fun and be on the receiving end too

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By *ustin-SiderMan
over a year ago

Belfast

[Removed by poster at 16/08/17 13:14:14]

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By *ustin-SiderMan
over a year ago

Belfast


"I think you'd need a dominant and submissive. Most likely male sub female dominant.

I'll volunteer as male sub just for a bit of role reversal for once.

Blonde Domme you're up. Let's do this.

Get yer coat Dom. ..

What a duo...

Domme &Dommer

I'm quiet proud of myself for that... hee hee

The movie should be a best seller.

Ohhh are we making a movie? "

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By *igBlondeDommeWoman
over a year ago

middle of nowhere


"I think you'd need a dominant and submissive. Most likely male sub female dominant.

I'll volunteer as male sub just for a bit of role reversal for once.

Blonde Domme you're up. Let's do this.

Get yer coat Dom. ..

What a duo...

Domme &Dommer

I'm quiet proud of myself for that... hee hee

The movie should be a best seller.

Ohhh are we making a movie?

"

New thread looking for cast members

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By *ustin-SiderMan
over a year ago

Belfast

[Removed by poster at 16/08/17 13:44:05]

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By *ustin-SiderMan
over a year ago

Belfast


"I think you'd need a dominant and submissive. Most likely male sub female dominant.

I'll volunteer as male sub just for a bit of role reversal for once.

Blonde Domme you're up. Let's do this.

Get yer coat Dom. ..

What a duo...

Domme &Dommer

I'm quiet proud of myself for that... hee hee

The movie should be a best seller.

Ohhh are we making a movie?

New thread looking for cast members "

I like your thinking.

Now we just need the basic script and scenes.

We can do another thread asking for scene ideas.

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


"Apollonia I hope you find what your looking for. I reckon you're in the right place. X"

Aahhh It's just one of many experiences I'm hoping for . . But thank u x

I am not however volunteering for the sub roll in Dom & dommer

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


"Yep that's exactly it . . I get the attention of both . . The other f & male don't get intimate at all??

Well I'm assuming that's be the case if you met with a couple with a bi woman. Both would be eager to get their hands on fresh meat :P

That was the case anytime I had ffm with a partner

It's not always like that... For me as a bi girl .. I like to receive same amount of attention from My guy and the girl.

Probably that's why Im not to much into those dom,sub play... Equality all The way for us. "

Absolutely u would play with both!!! God u guys are a couple so that goes without saying . . But the question is would the lady have to play with ur guy too??

I'm finding most couples who want me to join them require I play fully with both & ladies who wish to play with hub & I want also to play with both!?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I think you'd need a dominant and submissive. Most likely male sub female dominant.

I'll volunteer as male sub just for a bit of role reversal for once.

Blonde Domme you're up. Let's do this.

Get yer coat Dom. ..

What a duo...

Domme &Dommer

I'm quiet proud of myself for that... hee hee "

Its brilliant

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By *igBlondeDommeWoman
over a year ago

middle of nowhere


"Apollonia I hope you find what your looking for. I reckon you're in the right place. X

Aahhh It's just one of many experiences I'm hoping for . . But thank u x

I am not however volunteering for the sub roll in Dom & dommer "

Lol. Just banter. It's just nice when a plan comes together and I hope your plan does.

We'll mention you as our inspiration when we make our movie. Xx

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Is this at all achievable or am I just being greedy??"

Yep greedy and rightly so

Doesn't seem fair on the other lady though

I'm sure her love glove will be aching to be filled and ye lady just don't have the hip movement, even with a strap on It's a fine art

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Yep that's exactly it . . I get the attention of both . . The other f & male don't get intimate at all??

Well I'm assuming that's be the case if you met with a couple with a bi woman. Both would be eager to get their hands on fresh meat :P

That was the case anytime I had ffm with a partner

It's not always like that... For me as a bi girl .. I like to receive same amount of attention from My guy and the girl.

Probably that's why Im not to much into those dom,sub play... Equality all The way for us.

Absolutely u would play with both!!! God u guys are a couple so that goes without saying . . But the question is would the lady have to play with ur guy too??

I'm finding most couples who want me to join them require I play fully with both & ladies who wish to play with hub & I want also to play with both!?

"

Here we are again... Let's just have sex lol ffm? Please

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


"Yep that's exactly it . . I get the attention of both . . The other f & male don't get intimate at all??

Well I'm assuming that's be the case if you met with a couple with a bi woman. Both would be eager to get their hands on fresh meat :P

That was the case anytime I had ffm with a partner

It's not always like that... For me as a bi girl .. I like to receive same amount of attention from My guy and the girl.

Probably that's why Im not to much into those dom,sub play... Equality all The way for us.

Absolutely u would play with both!!! God u guys are a couple so that goes without saying . . But the question is would the lady have to play with ur guy too??

I'm finding most couples who want me to join them require I play fully with both & ladies who wish to play with hub & I want also to play with both!?

Here we are again... Let's just have sex lol ffm? Please "

Ha ha lols . . Stop too funny!!!

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By *irtypair00Couple
over a year ago

Dublin


"Yep that's exactly it . . I get the attention of both . . The other f & male don't get intimate at all??

Well I'm assuming that's be the case if you met with a couple with a bi woman. Both would be eager to get their hands on fresh meat :P

That was the case anytime I had ffm with a partner

It's not always like that... For me as a bi girl .. I like to receive same amount of attention from My guy and the girl.

Probably that's why Im not to much into those dom,sub play... Equality all The way for us.

Absolutely u would play with both!!! God u guys are a couple so that goes without saying . . But the question is would the lady have to play with ur guy too??

I'm finding most couples who want me to join them require I play fully with both & ladies who wish to play with hub & I want also to play with both!?

Here we are again... Let's just have sex lol ffm? Please "

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By *ustin-SiderMan
over a year ago

Belfast


"Yep that's exactly it . . I get the attention of both . . The other f & male don't get intimate at all??

Well I'm assuming that's be the case if you met with a couple with a bi woman. Both would be eager to get their hands on fresh meat :P

That was the case anytime I had ffm with a partner

It's not always like that... For me as a bi girl .. I like to receive same amount of attention from My guy and the girl.

Probably that's why Im not to much into those dom,sub play... Equality all The way for us.

Absolutely u would play with both!!! God u guys are a couple so that goes without saying . . But the question is would the lady have to play with ur guy too??

I'm finding most couples who want me to join them require I play fully with both & ladies who wish to play with hub & I want also to play with both!?

Here we are again... Let's just have sex lol ffm? Please

"

So long as everybody gets their turn(s) and has plenty of orgasms I think that's the important thing.

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