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Pretty little liars

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago

Louise O'Neill in the examiner has the audacity to say:

"it is said that 33% of Irish women suffer domestic violence"

1 in 3....pull the other one... that is a ridiculously high figure and roughly infers that 1/3 men like to beat women. A highly insulting sentiment and total fiction.

Note carefully the words "it is said"...by who?!

Either she is clinically insane or is using that as a get out clause for the wild inaccuracy of her words.

A career feminist profiting from the sale of fear and anger by manipulation of the truth.

I hope the lads here have the balls to speak up about it.

Ladies have 1 in 3 of you been beaten at home?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I have, when I was married.

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


"I have, when I was married."

Very sorry to hear it.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Of course you have figures to disprove your theory or did you just have a chat with the lads about more women's nonsense & decide it must be crap?

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago

No candy she clearly has no figures when the words "it is said". If there were the study would be referenced in some shape or form.

I might have a dig for the craic

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago

[Removed by poster at 09/03/17 18:11:55]

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I have

And I'm talking broken bones not just a few slaps

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago

Women's aid is telling me 31% suffer "psychological violence".

It's hard to define, impossible to measure and works both ways in dysfunctional relationships.

Violence is physical by any normal definition of the word.

It's creative accounting and embellishment of the truth to define horrible words as actual violence (as bad as they can be and having suffered the same myself it's still a huge leap to call that domestic violence)....

"it is said" of course

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By *irebladexMan
over a year ago

Naas

Emotional, physical and financial. Abuse isn't just a slap and it isn't gender based.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

To Boldy, Geordie & anyone who has suffered or is suffering at the hands of one who claims to love them XO.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Domestic violence comes in 5 different forms.

Physical

Emotional

Financial

Sexual

Psychological

I would gauge that 1/3 of woman is at the lower end of the scale from the actual truth

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Domestic violence comes in 5 different forms.

Physical

Emotional

Financial

Sexual

Psychological

I would gauge that 1/3 of woman is at the lower end of the scale from the actual truth

"

So would I.

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By *rDarcy37Man
over a year ago

lucan

Any man that hits a woman is not a man.

Thats what I think....

Although a few slaps to the bottom with full concent is borderline

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Domestic violence comes in 5 different forms.

Physical

Emotional

Financial

Sexual

Psychological

I would gauge that 1/3 of woman is at the lower end of the scale from the actual truth

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By *o hassleMan
over a year ago

moira


"I have, when I was married."

So sorry to hear that

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago

Anyway my point is made. I'm sure someone will be on soon to lazily call me a misogynist so I'll let others add to the discussion instead.

Sorry Geordie x

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By *o hassleMan
over a year ago

moira


"I have

And I'm talking broken bones not just a few slaps"

So sad but glad you got away

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By *ontbesillywrapyourwillyMan
over a year ago

Tipperary

with years and I still do struggle to understand why someone stays in an abusive relationship.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I have

And I'm talking broken bones not just a few slaps

So sad but glad you got away "

Only cos he died...if he hadn't I'd still be in hell

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I have suffered domestic abuse in the past

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By *o hassleMan
over a year ago

moira

Terrible to hear ladies here disclose the horrible truths ... what sad people we can be

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


"

I would gauge that 1/3 of woman is at the lower end of the scale from the actual truth

"

Last point.... How do you get that result?

Do you honestly think 1/3 of men are abusive?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

But regardless it's / and should be tolerated

Be it males or females - the victims

What sort of person could steep so low to hit a person close to them

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"with years and I still do struggle to understand why someone stays in an abusive relationship. "

That's very easy to say when you're not in it. Before that relationship I'd have had the same opinion, but this lad was a total nutter. Even friends admitted they feared for my life if i left. Someone had to die for me to get out, but i always thought it would be me

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"

I would gauge that 1/3 of woman is at the lower end of the scale from the actual truth

Last point.... How do you get that result?

Do you honestly think 1/3 of men are abusive? "

One person can affect several people

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By *osmicGateMan
over a year ago

louth


"Louise O'Neill in the examiner has the audacity to say:

"it is said that 33% of Irish women suffer domestic violence"

1 in 3....pull the other one... that is a ridiculously high figure and roughly infers that 1/3 men like to beat women. A highly insulting sentiment and total fiction.

Note carefully the words "it is said"...by who?!

Either she is clinically insane or is using that as a get out clause for the wild inaccuracy of her words.

A career feminist profiting from the sale of fear and anger by manipulation of the truth.

I hope the lads here have the balls to speak up about it.

Ladies have 1 in 3 of you been beaten at home?

"

gone be with the days where rule of thumb applied...a man could beat his unruley wife with an implement no thicker than his thumb

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

60% so far...What was your point again?

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By *ontbesillywrapyourwillyMan
over a year ago

Tipperary


"with years and I still do struggle to understand why someone stays in an abusive relationship.

That's very easy to say when you're not in it. Before that relationship I'd have had the same opinion, but this lad was a total nutter. Even friends admitted they feared for my life if i left. Someone had to die for me to get out, but i always thought it would be me"
Did u never rely your trust in people as to what was happening, get the police involved etc?

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


"60% so far...What was your point again?"

That you can't do math?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"with years and I still do struggle to understand why someone stays in an abusive relationship.

That's very easy to say when you're not in it. Before that relationship I'd have had the same opinion, but this lad was a total nutter. Even friends admitted they feared for my life if i left. Someone had to die for me to get out, but i always thought it would be meDid u never rely your trust in people as to what was happening, get the police involved etc?"

And that's another crock of shit - your friends don't want to help or get involved when it's a real sociopath, and neither do the cops. O did report him and was failed by the system

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By *ontbesillywrapyourwillyMan
over a year ago

Tipperary


"with years and I still do struggle to understand why someone stays in an abusive relationship.

That's very easy to say when you're not in it. Before that relationship I'd have had the same opinion, but this lad was a total nutter. Even friends admitted they feared for my life if i left. Someone had to die for me to get out, but i always thought it would be meDid u never rely your trust in people as to what was happening, get the police involved etc?

And that's another crock of shit - your friends don't want to help or get involved when it's a real sociopath, and neither do the cops. O did report him and was failed by the system "
are you been serious saying someone had to die for you to get out?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"with years and I still do struggle to understand why someone stays in an abusive relationship. "

Very easy to say that, if you're not in one.

We stay for many reasons, however fucked up they are.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

For example

You stated that domestic violence is physical, broken bones, bruised etc. Your may not be right but your not alone in thinking that.

A person can inflict any one or more of the other 4 types of DV and think that they are not perpetrators or victims of domestic violence

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By *ontbesillywrapyourwillyMan
over a year ago

Tipperary

I don't believe this very easy say that. your in love, yes but because ur in love with a physco you stay in the relationship to get clattered? I'm trying to picture the situation, I often do when I hear something like this and I keep thinking, how could you love someone like that

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Louise O'Neill in the examiner has the audacity to say:

"it is said that 33% of Irish women suffer domestic violence"

1 in 3....pull the other one... that is a ridiculously high figure and roughly infers that 1/3 men like to beat women. A highly insulting sentiment and total fiction.

Note carefully the words "it is said"...by who?!

Either she is clinically insane or is using that as a get out clause for the wild inaccuracy of her words.

A career feminist profiting from the sale of fear and anger by manipulation of the truth.

I hope the lads here have the balls to speak up about it.

Ladies have 1 in 3 of you been beaten at home?

"

Having worked with ladies who survived domestic abuse, supported their children and families, have many friends who have experienced it and suffered myself, I find your post insulting, and of course worded to provoke debate. You are obviously an intelligent man. Use that intelligence to do some research on the effects of domestic abuse. Honestly if you had any compassion you would not have posted this. 33% is a gross underestimate. However, the damage it does to suffers and children can't even be put into words. Shame on you.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I have

And I'm talking broken bones not just a few slaps"

Same here!

The mental torture was every bit as bad as the fists, boot etc.

At least the physical wounds have healed.

For me, anyway.

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By *oggoneMan
over a year ago

Derry

Jesus Flash I don't want to make this personal but you're coming across as very misogynist, this thread after yesterday's throw rocks at feminists effort.

If you want to know a bit more about 'psychological violence' or whats known as emotional abuse. I recommend a book called Stalking the Soul- Emotional Abuse And The Erosion of Identity by Marie-France Hirigoyen. The author is not some strident youtube feminist. She's a very well respected psychiatrist and psychotherapist.

Yes newspapers and media will always try to drive ratings up but emotional abuse is real. It can affect men, Women and Children.

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By *oleadorXXMan
over a year ago

dublin

There's a report online from SAFE Ireland, from 2014 (not sure I am allowed to post a link here).

The numbers are shocking.

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


"Louise O'Neill in the examiner has the audacity to say:

"it is said that 33% of Irish women suffer domestic violence"

1 in 3....pull the other one... that is a ridiculously high figure and roughly infers that 1/3 men like to beat women. A highly insulting sentiment and total fiction.

Note carefully the words "it is said"...by who?!

Either she is clinically insane or is using that as a get out clause for the wild inaccuracy of her words.

A career feminist profiting from the sale of fear and anger by manipulation of the truth.

I hope the lads here have the balls to speak up about it.

Ladies have 1 in 3 of you been beaten at home?

Having worked with ladies who survived domestic abuse, supported their children and families, have many friends who have experienced it and suffered myself, I find your post insulting, and of course worded to provoke debate. You are obviously an intelligent man. Use that intelligence to do some research on the effects of domestic abuse. Honestly if you had any compassion you would not have posted this. 33% is a gross underestimate. However, the damage it does to suffers and children can't even be put into words. Shame on you."

I'm sorry I started it... Deep nasty shit but I genuinely believe the stats to be exaggerated to suit other agendas.

As sensitively as I can ask, you must recognise some confirmation bias through personal experience and career?

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By *osmicGateMan
over a year ago

louth


"I don't believe this very easy say that. your in love, yes but because ur in love with a physco you stay in the relationship to get clattered? I'm trying to picture the situation, I often do when I hear something like this and I keep thinking, how could you love someone like that "

because they always say they are sorry afterwards and that it'll never happen again bla bla bla then you have make up sex and its unbelievable and you forget what happened until they lose their temper again and hit you..well thats what the psycho bith did to me anyway

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


"Jesus Flash I don't want to make this personal but you're coming across as very misogynist, this thread after yesterday's throw rocks at feminists effort.

If you want to know a bit more about 'psychological violence' or whats known as emotional abuse. I recommend a book called Stalking the Soul- Emotional Abuse And The Erosion of Identity by Marie-France Hirigoyen. The author is not some strident youtube feminist. She's a very well respected psychiatrist and psychotherapist.

Yes newspapers and media will always try to drive ratings up but emotional abuse is real. It can affect men, Women and Children. "

I've had it myself. It's a human issue nothing to do with Feminism.

I couldn't be further from a misogynist, coming from a scientific background I just have a weird obsession with accuracy of information and apologise for any insensitivity.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Lol!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Louise O'Neill in the examiner has the audacity to say:

"it is said that 33% of Irish women suffer domestic violence"

1 in 3....pull the other one... that is a ridiculously high figure and roughly infers that 1/3 men like to beat women. A highly insulting sentiment and total fiction.

Note carefully the words "it is said"...by who?!

Either she is clinically insane or is using that as a get out clause for the wild inaccuracy of her words.

A career feminist profiting from the sale of fear and anger by manipulation of the truth.

I hope the lads here have the balls to speak up about it.

Ladies have 1 in 3 of you been beaten at home?

Having worked with ladies who survived domestic abuse, supported their children and families, have many friends who have experienced it and suffered myself, I find your post insulting, and of course worded to provoke debate. You are obviously an intelligent man. Use that intelligence to do some research on the effects of domestic abuse. Honestly if you had any compassion you would not have posted this. 33% is a gross underestimate. However, the damage it does to suffers and children can't even be put into words. Shame on you.

I'm sorry I started it... Deep nasty shit but I genuinely believe the stats to be exaggerated to suit other agendas.

As sensitively as I can ask, you must recognise some confirmation bias through personal experience and career? "

I'd say the figure of 33% is an under representation. That would be over a life time of a woman. It's not just about 'giving your woman a slap' Abuse takes all forms and can happen to anyone.

I don't know the woman that you are quoting, but if it helps one woman or family find some strength to leave (and many don't) then it's done some good. Domestic abuse is seriously under reported (especially when it's inflicted on men). If you could spend one day in my professional shoes (preferably after a bank holiday. That's always fun!) then it would seriously open your eyes to some peoples ability to inflict suffering on those they profess to love and care for. It's complex and soul destroying at times.

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By *oggoneMan
over a year ago

Derry


"Jesus Flash I don't want to make this personal but you're coming across as very misogynist, this thread after yesterday's throw rocks at feminists effort.

If you want to know a bit more about 'psychological violence' or whats known as emotional abuse. I recommend a book called Stalking the Soul- Emotional Abuse And The Erosion of Identity by Marie-France Hirigoyen. The author is not some strident youtube feminist. She's a very well respected psychiatrist and psychotherapist.

Yes newspapers and media will always try to drive ratings up but emotional abuse is real. It can affect men, Women and Children.

I've had it myself. It's a human issue nothing to do with Feminism.

I couldn't be further from a misogynist, coming from a scientific background I just have a weird obsession with accuracy of information and apologise for any insensitivity. "

Honestly, it appears as if you're trolling. Yeah, unless one has access to the raw data and methodology, stats can always be questioned. But seriously man, check yourself.

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago

No I'm just worried the way society is going. Too much anger between the sexes which is creating the opposite of true equality (dignity and respect and opportunity for all humans worldwide) which I'm a huge proponent of.

This effect of these things can bethe demonisation of perfectly good men.

I'm not a troll, I just want to get people to think.

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By *etmebeurfantasyWoman
over a year ago

My town

Knew a woman who was beaten from the time she was married, talking a long time ago and was told by her family she was married and basically deal with it. He had been married before, the day of his marriage to his first wife at reception he hit his new wife and her mother, the girls parents took her away from reception and got the marriage annulled never saw him again.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"No I'm just worried the way society is going. Too much anger between the sexes which is creating the opposite of true equality (dignity and respect and opportunity for all humans worldwide) which I'm a huge proponent of.

This effect of these things can bethe demonisation of perfectly good men.

I'm not a troll, I just want to get people to think.

"

I agree with blackdog

Flash you need to chill a bit,

Throw in the odd kiss fuck pass every now and then. Even feminists kiss

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By *j47Man
over a year ago

limerick

One thing I have seen here bar one poster is that domestic violence is targeted at females however there is probally as much targeted towards men and I ain't just talking hen pecked

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"One thing I have seen here bar one poster is that domestic violence is targeted at females however there is probally as much targeted towards men and I ain't just talking hen pecked "

I was thinking that too.

And I'd say the percentage of men that experience that is higher than we'd think too

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"One thing I have seen here bar one poster is that domestic violence is targeted at females however there is probally as much targeted towards men and I ain't just talking hen pecked

I was thinking that too.

And I'd say the percentage of men that experience that is higher than we'd think too"

agree

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"One thing I have seen here bar one poster is that domestic violence is targeted at females however there is probally as much targeted towards men and I ain't just talking hen pecked

I was thinking that too.

And I'd say the percentage of men that experience that is higher than we'd think too

agree"

Totally agree. Seriously under reported for violence against men as well. Maybe due to society expecting men to put up with it until it gets out of control, the shame and stigma of it. So wrong on every level.

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


"No I'm just worried the way society is going. Too much anger between the sexes which is creating the opposite of true equality (dignity and respect and opportunity for all humans worldwide) which I'm a huge proponent of.

This effect of these things can bethe demonisation of perfectly good men.

I'm not a troll, I just want to get people to think.

I agree with blackdog

Flash you need to chill a bit,

Throw in the odd kiss fuck pass every now and then. Even feminists kiss "

Yeah apologies to anyone affected, it's a sore topic. I'm too cheeky and insensitive in my criticism of some of the crazier sides of Feminism - its not all bad, just most of it

All good, I even kiss them

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago

Very last point... I really just want to show how batshit this darling of the media is and to add context for why I think she is exaggerating the facts.

Her other headline is:

"It's impossible for women to be sexist towards men"

What sort of an editor gives someone so clearly biased a voice?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

You just couldn't drop it...

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By *oggoneMan
over a year ago

Derry


"Very last point... I really just want to show how batshit this darling of the media is and to add context for why I think she is exaggerating the facts.

Her other headline is:

"It's impossible for women to be sexist towards men"

What sort of an editor gives someone so clearly biased a voice? "

Its a newspaper article intended to provoke and rile. Misogyny and misandry are real. How many times have you heard all (men/women) are bastards. If you feel that strongly about an opinion article in an newspaper, write to the editor. Get some help, get some fresh air.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"One thing I have seen here bar one poster is that domestic violence is targeted at females however there is probally as much targeted towards men and I ain't just talking hen pecked

I was thinking that too.

And I'd say the percentage of men that experience that is higher than we'd think too

agree

Totally agree. Seriously under reported for violence against men as well. Maybe due to society expecting men to put up with it until it gets out of control, the shame and stigma of it. So wrong on every level."

I've seen countless women on nights out slap punch kick bite and spit on men and not in a sexy way lol ... and nothing has ever happened, one of those times a fella slapped the girl back he got a kicking from about 4 other fellas and was arrested. Just saying that people's views can be clouded

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By *mmmMaybeCouple
over a year ago

West Wales


"with years and I still do struggle to understand why someone stays in an abusive relationship.

Very easy to say that, if you're not in one.

We stay for many reasons, however fucked up they are. "

I think she should have said domestic abuse not violence, violence to me is raising a hand. So 1/3rd is probably BS. 1/3rd domestic abuse be it verbal whatever I could believe, but then I could believe 1/3rd of married men receiving verbal too.

I suffered four years of living with someone with undiagnosed bipolar. Many a time I would be the only one in a sweltering office with my shirt sleeves not rolled because of the bruising to my arms. Stopped going swimming & no holidays to the sun due to the bruises on torso/legs as well.

I was brought up not to hit women & I didn't just fended off & grabbed until it passed, but final straw was when she came at my back with a twelve inch kitchen knife & I had to get it off her, after which I walked.

Her mood swings were just like using a light switch. So you never ever relaxed.

Seventeen years later she is married, medded up to her eyeballs & we are friends on FB.

I don't blame her, I blame the so called doctor who for years said nothing was wrong, she moved, changed docs & on her very first visit he said she was bipolar after chatting.

So although rare its not just ladies that suffer, you do not own 100% of the problem, just most of it..

xx

S

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By *eavenscentitCouple
over a year ago

barnstaple

I was never physically hit but, emotional abuse, put downs, stalking, and ignoring the children were apart of my marraige. I will never live with someone again. It happened gradually, I lost myself. It took me 11 years to enter into a relationship with another man.

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


" Get some help, get some fresh air."

I thought you said you don't like to get personal

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


"Very last point... I really just want to show how batshit this darling of the media is and to add context for why I think she is exaggerating the facts.

Her other headline is:

"It's impossible for women to be sexist towards men"

What sort of an editor gives someone so clearly biased a voice?

Its a newspaper article intended to provoke and rile. Misogyny and misandry are real. How many times have you heard all (men/women) are bastards. If you feel that strongly about an opinion article in an newspaper, write to the editor. Get some help, get some fresh air."

But just to take your point for a minute... There would be outrage if there was a similar article deliberately creating rile written by a man castigating women.

It's not one article, she has a weekly slot for her manhating. I only care about stupid opinions, when they start gaining momentum and becoming "truth" in the public consciousness

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"What sort of an editor gives someone so clearly biased a voice? "

Every. Single. Editor.

She's a columnist from what I understand, not an investigative journalist.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Women's aid is telling me 31% suffer "psychological violence".

It's hard to define"

No it's not.


"impossible to measure..."

No it's not. Didn't you say something about having a scientific background?


"and works both ways in dysfunctional relationships.

"

Well not really; violent mental abuse tends to be directed at one person in a relationship over a period of time. You're maybe getting it mixed up with a big blow-up fight where both parties do some shouting.


"

Violence is physical by any normal definition of the word.

"

No it's not. Look you can even Google this kind of stuff! Violence: noun: "strength of emotion"

I wouldn't normally engage with attention-seeking threads like this, but TV is a bit crap tonight

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By *oggoneMan
over a year ago

Derry


"Very last point... I really just want to show how batshit this darling of the media is and to add context for why I think she is exaggerating the facts.

Her other headline is:

"It's impossible for women to be sexist towards men"

What sort of an editor gives someone so clearly biased a voice?

Its a newspaper article intended to provoke and rile. Misogyny and misandry are real. How many times have you heard all (men/women) are bastards. If you feel that strongly about an opinion article in an newspaper, write to the editor. Get some help, get some fresh air.

But just to take your point for a minute... There would be outrage if there was a similar article deliberately creating rile written by a man castigating women.

It's not one article, she has a weekly slot for her manhating. I only care about stupid opinions, when they start gaining momentum and becoming "truth" in the public consciousness "

Its an opinion piece. Jessica Valenti, Una Mulally, Ruth Dudley Edwards, Kevin Myers. None of those people are employed for their moderate views. They intend to provoke, to cause reaction, to incite comment. Its not truth, its their opinion. Its obviously something you feel very strongly about.

Double standards abound everywhere and to honest, there is fuck all you can do about that. We're all hypocrites. The only person you can change is yourself. I spent 3 years going through the family courts trying get access to my children. Damn near killed me.

Gender issues and identity is quite a difficult issue and the manner in which you raise them is deliberately provocative, insensitive and unhelpful. Men are taking their own lives at shocking rates. Are women to blame for that? I think it was Ghandi that said, 'be the change you want to see in the world'.

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By *oghunter33Woman
over a year ago

on the hill NordWest of

If you like it or not superflash that was a real shot in the oven you did with this thread. I know you intended to launch another anti feminist thread and anti witch hunt against men but domestic abuse is more prevalent than you want to believe. I put myself on the list with the others with mild physical and strong emotional abuse.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

No surprise OP, the media, be it print or online is heavily populated with misandrous female journalists, columnists, whatever you want to call them. Just as white people are fair game when it comes to race issues, men are fair game when it comes to gender issues. Research and statistics be dawned.

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By *o hassleMan
over a year ago

moira


"If you like it or not superflash that was a real shot in the oven you did with this thread. I know you intended to launch another anti feminist thread and anti witch hunt against men but domestic abuse is more prevalent than you want to believe. I put myself on the list with the others with mild physical and strong emotional abuse. "

This is terrible, appears very few ladies here escaped this torture

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I don't believe everything written in the media. I believe what I hear from people affected. At the end of the day we don't know what really goes on behind doors. Abuse comes in many different shapes and ways. It's easy to write on a swingers site forum about very sensitive issues,or any social media platform, without truly knowing or understanding the issue.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"If you like it or not superflash that was a real shot in the oven you did with this thread. I know you intended to launch another anti feminist thread and anti witch hunt against men but domestic abuse is more prevalent than you want to believe. I put myself on the list with the others with mild physical and strong emotional abuse.

This is terrible, appears very few ladies here escaped this torture "

You need to relax man, 2 or 3 women in here have said it...and here you are with your 'very few ladies here have escaped this torture' rhetoric. You're not doing the women who have suffered from it any favours and it's not going to curry favour with them for you either

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Ireland has a history of turning a blind eye and brushing things under the carpet. Even if this number is overestimated for a headline i think any shock headlines that keep domestic abuse a topic people are talking that can't be a bad thing. People should know exactly what it entails and how to spot it.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Louise O'Neill in the examiner has the audacity to say:

"it is said that 33% of Irish women suffer domestic violence"

1 in 3....pull the other one... that is a ridiculously high figure and roughly infers that 1/3 men like to beat women. A highly insulting sentiment and total fiction.

Note carefully the words "it is said"...by who?!

Either she is clinically insane or is using that as a get out clause for the wild inaccuracy of her words.

A career feminist profiting from the sale of fear and anger by manipulation of the truth.

I hope the lads here have the balls to speak up about it.

Ladies have 1 in 3 of you been beaten at home?

Having worked with ladies who survived domestic abuse, supported their children and families, have many friends who have experienced it and suffered myself, I find your post insulting, and of course worded to provoke debate. You are obviously an intelligent man. Use that intelligence to do some research on the effects of domestic abuse. Honestly if you had any compassion you would not have posted this. 33% is a gross underestimate. However, the damage it does to suffers and children can't even be put into words. Shame on you."

As someone who doesn't work directly but has friends that work in the domestic violence area and working in an environment where I see the reports, the figures are lot higher than reported. The amazing work that people do to help others is commendable, and to anyone that has suffered or is suffering I hope they get the help needed

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By *eanontiWoman
over a year ago

Limerick

I have an unset broken hand, both hips chipped (all confirmed after I got out). But, bones heal. I couldn't hold a conversation in a group. Only went out to take kids to appointments, school etc.

But, that's not the worst of it the damage to my children I did by staying is the worst to bear.

And, to those who say why didn't you leave. Do you honestly think a man like that just lets you leave. That's when you find out they have destroyed your reputation amongst former friends and neighbours. Even though support services warn you. Unless you've been through it you really can't comprehend the reality.

So have your dig at feminism but, domestic violence is not a topic for your amusement whether it's against male or female and never forget the damage it does to children

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


"

So have your dig at feminism but, domestic violence is not a topic for your amusement whether it's against male or female and never forget the damage it does to children "

You are right, I've learned a bit in that maybe it is more prevalent than I imagined and I want to apologise for appearing insensitive.

That said, I think for once we've all had a constructive balanced conversation on these matters and I'm glad that people see both sides of the issue rather than it descending into two sides taking polar positions and sticking to them doggedly

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By *eanontiWoman
over a year ago

Limerick


"

So have your dig at feminism but, domestic violence is not a topic for your amusement whether it's against male or female and never forget the damage it does to children

You are right, I've learned a bit in that maybe it is more prevalent than I imagined and I want to apologise for appearing insensitive.

That said, I think for once we've all had a constructive balanced conversation on these matters and I'm glad that people see both sides of the issue rather than it descending into two sides taking polar positions and sticking to them doggedly "

Because it is such a sensitive issue. Most people will know of a family member or friend that have suffered/survived some level of domestic abuse.

Think it's the first time I've seen you apologise for stirring things up

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago

No harm in stirring things up constructively, hurting feelings is a different story

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By *eanontiWoman
over a year ago

Limerick


"No harm in stirring things up constructively, hurting feelings is a different story "

You didn't hurt my feelings. Believe me I've listened to and been called worse over the last 12 years.

Just out of curiousity have you really never had a close friend or family member been a surviver of domestic abuse

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By *ir1967Man
over a year ago

in da sticks, london, amsterdam, madrid

It griefs my heart to read this thread

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By *eanontiWoman
over a year ago

Limerick


"It griefs my heart to read this thread"

Why?? These things need to be said. I'm not ashamed anymore.

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By *eavenscentitCouple
over a year ago

barnstaple


"It griefs my heart to read this thread

Why?? These things need to be said. I'm not ashamed anymore. "

Me neither brave lady

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

The first relationship I had after separating was with a girl who had been abused mentally and physically, to the extent of broken bones and hospitalisation. I had never encountered domestic violence before and it was unbelievably traumatising for the girl and her kids aswell as myself. Up to three years after she left him he wud still break into her house at nite and beat her in her bed if I wasn't there.

The police were next to useless and eventually I had to leave the relationship as after slapping the shot out of the useless prick three times I was gonna end up in jail as he wud press charges for assault against me each time unless the girl dropped charges against him. Thankfully she eventually moved away when he at last was jailed.

Liftin a hand to a woman is never acceptable in my eyes, he was the most cowardly evil little shit I ever met.

I don't know wot the domestic violence figures are but I would imagine it's higher than people think as a result of the women and off course men who live with it in silence

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By *atthewsundriMan
over a year ago

dundrum


"Louise O'Neill in the examiner has the audacity to say:

"it is said that 33% of Irish women suffer domestic violence"

1 in 3....pull the other one... that is a ridiculously high figure and roughly infers that 1/3 men like to beat women. A highly insulting sentiment and total fiction.

Note carefully the words "it is said"...by who?!

Either she is clinically insane or is using that as a get out clause for the wild inaccuracy of her words.

A career feminist profiting from the sale of fear and anger by manipulation of the truth.

I hope the lads here have the balls to speak up about it.

Ladies have 1 in 3 of you been beaten at home?

Having worked with ladies who survived domestic abuse, supported their children and families, have many friends who have experienced it and suffered myself, I find your post insulting, and of course worded to provoke debate. You are obviously an intelligent man. Use that intelligence to do some research on the effects of domestic abuse. Honestly if you had any compassion you would not have posted this. 33% is a gross underestimate. However, the damage it does to suffers and children can't even be put into words. Shame on you.

I'm sorry I started it... Deep nasty shit but I genuinely believe the stats to be exaggerated to suit other agendas.

As sensitively as I can ask, you must recognise some confirmation bias through personal experience and career? "
obviously they are not exaggerated from the responses on here you should do some research yourself before making idiotic points like this maybe then you will take ur head out of the sand

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

It's only ever a matter of time. You just wait...

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By *ichael McCarthyMan
over a year ago

Lucan

Surely even by crappy journalism standards of the day, "it is said" doesn't count as a source? I would've thought that if she wanted to be taken seriously she should be able to come up with a source for her figures.

That is not disputing anything she said, just the standard of journalism involved.

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By *s louWoman
over a year ago

Enniskillen


"

I would gauge that 1/3 of woman is at the lower end of the scale from the actual truth

Last point.... How do you get that result?

Do you honestly think 1/3 of men are abusive? "

1/3 of women being subject to domestic violence does not mean 1/3 of men are abusive. Who says that the abusers are solely male? What about same sex relationships? What about women living with their parents who are abusing them? Or the women whose teenage/adult kids are abusing them? Domestic violence is not so black and white so as to be women abused by their partners (I use women in this example as the original post was questioning 1/3 of women in violent relationships. Of course men are subjected to it to)

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Surely even by crappy journalism standards of the day, "it is said" doesn't count as a source? I would've thought that if she wanted to be taken seriously she should be able to come up with a source for her figures.

That is not disputing anything she said, just the standard of journalism involved. "

Did you read it too MM, Or are you just repeating the OP?

I remember reading an article about her spending time with SAFE where these figures were mentioned (again by her saying she had read statistics but no link was provided).

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Surely even by crappy journalism standards of the day, "it is said" doesn't count as a source? I would've thought that if she wanted to be taken seriously she should be able to come up with a source for her figures.

That is not disputing anything she said, just the standard of journalism involved. "

I haven't seen the original piece to even confirm if the quote is correct or not, or out of context. I haven't found the article online. Maybe someone could post a link if they find it.

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By *ichael McCarthyMan
over a year ago

Lucan


"Surely even by crappy journalism standards of the day, "it is said" doesn't count as a source? I would've thought that if she wanted to be taken seriously she should be able to come up with a source for her figures.

That is not disputing anything she said, just the standard of journalism involved.

Did you read it too MM, Or are you just repeating the OP?

I remember reading an article about her spending time with SAFE where these figures were mentioned (again by her saying she had read statistics but no link was provided)."

If someone tells me that she said her source was "it is said" and said that they were pretty much quoting her verbatim, and as yet nobody has posted anything to contradict that, then I take his quote at face value. I probably should've put "if the op is correct" at the start but then I'll end up having to do that with every comment.

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By *s louWoman
over a year ago

Enniskillen


"Surely even by crappy journalism standards of the day, "it is said" doesn't count as a source? I would've thought that if she wanted to be taken seriously she should be able to come up with a source for her figures.

That is not disputing anything she said, just the standard of journalism involved.

I haven't seen the original piece to even confirm if the quote is correct or not, or out of context. I haven't found the article online. Maybe someone could post a link if they find it. "

I think this may be the piece?

http://www.irishexaminer.com/viewpoints/columnists/louise-oneill/stats-show-someone-you-know-must-be-affected-by-a-violent-partner-or-parent-433252.html

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Surely even by crappy journalism standards of the day, "it is said" doesn't count as a source? I would've thought that if she wanted to be taken seriously she should be able to come up with a source for her figures.

That is not disputing anything she said, just the standard of journalism involved.

Did you read it too MM, Or are you just repeating the OP?

I remember reading an article about her spending time with SAFE where these figures were mentioned (again by her saying she had read statistics but no link was provided).

If someone tells me that she said her source was "it is said" and said that they were pretty much quoting her verbatim, and as yet nobody has posted anything to contradict that, then I take his quote at face value. I probably should've put "if the op is correct" at the start but then I'll end up having to do that with every comment. "

https://www.google.ie/amp/amp.irishexaminer.com/viewpoints/columnists/louise-oneill/stats-show-someone-you-know-must-be-affected-by-a-violent-partner-or-parent-433252.html

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Surely even by crappy journalism standards of the day, "it is said" doesn't count as a source? I would've thought that if she wanted to be taken seriously she should be able to come up with a source for her figures.

That is not disputing anything she said, just the standard of journalism involved.

I haven't seen the original piece to even confirm if the quote is correct or not, or out of context. I haven't found the article online. Maybe someone could post a link if they find it.

I think this may be the piece?

http://www.irishexaminer.com/viewpoints/columnists/louise-oneill/stats-show-someone-you-know-must-be-affected-by-a-violent-partner-or-parent-433252.html"

SNAP! Jinx.

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By *s louWoman
over a year ago

Enniskillen


"Surely even by crappy journalism standards of the day, "it is said" doesn't count as a source? I would've thought that if she wanted to be taken seriously she should be able to come up with a source for her figures.

That is not disputing anything she said, just the standard of journalism involved.

I haven't seen the original piece to even confirm if the quote is correct or not, or out of context. I haven't found the article online. Maybe someone could post a link if they find it.

I think this may be the piece?

http://www.irishexaminer.com/viewpoints/columnists/louise-oneill/stats-show-someone-you-know-must-be-affected-by-a-violent-partner-or-parent-433252.html

SNAP! Jinx."

great minds think alike

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"If someone tells me that she said her source was "it is said" and said that they were pretty much quoting her verbatim, and as yet nobody has posted anything to contradict that, then I take his quote at face value. "

Someone just kindly sent me a link to the article, and I can't see "it is said" anywhere in the text. You see the problem (and hypocrisy) when someone posts that they have an issue with a writer not citing a source, but then don't cite the source they are supposedly quoting.

What was in the article was:

"[citing a conference she attended] What I heard during those two days frightened me – the statistics around domestic violence in this country are stark.

On just one day in 2014, 475 women and 301 children sought support from a domestic violence service in Ireland. One in three Irish women is currently experiencing severe psychological abuse, one-in-four suffering sexual or physical abuse."

A quick look at various reputable sources will backup those figures (Refuge, LWA, ONS etc.).

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Had years of psychological and verbal abuse. Especially when he drank. He started to verbally abuse our 3 year old daughter. That was it for me. Headed to a shelter. I bet theres a lot of women reading this thread who will remain silent. And yes I know men are victims too. We should all speak up. The mental damage is sometimes worse than the physical.

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By *atthewsundriMan
over a year ago

dundrum


"

I would gauge that 1/3 of woman is at the lower end of the scale from the actual truth

Last point.... How do you get that result?

Do you honestly think 1/3 of men are abusive?

1/3 of women being subject to domestic violence does not mean 1/3 of men are abusive. Who says that the abusers are solely male? What about same sex relationships? What about women living with their parents who are abusing them? Or the women whose teenage/adult kids are abusing them? Domestic violence is not so black and white so as to be women abused by their partners (I use women in this example as the original post was questioning 1/3 of women in violent relationships. Of course men are subjected to it to)"

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By *oggoneMan
over a year ago

Derry


"Surely even by crappy journalism standards of the day, "it is said" doesn't count as a source? I would've thought that if she wanted to be taken seriously she should be able to come up with a source for her figures.

That is not disputing anything she said, just the standard of journalism involved.

I haven't seen the original piece to even confirm if the quote is correct or not, or out of context. I haven't found the article online. Maybe someone could post a link if they find it.

I think this may be the piece?

http://www.irishexaminer.com/viewpoints/columnists/louise-oneill/stats-show-someone-you-know-must-be-affected-by-a-violent-partner-or-parent-433252.html"

Thanks for posting the link. Having read the article I'm even less impressed with Flash for using it as justification for 'stirring things up constructively'.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Louise O'Neill in the examiner has the audacity to say:

"it is said that 33% of Irish women suffer domestic violence"

1 in 3....pull the other one... that is a ridiculously high figure and roughly infers that 1/3 men like to beat women. A highly insulting sentiment and total fiction.

Note carefully the words "it is said"...by who?!

Either she is clinically insane or is using that as a get out clause for the wild inaccuracy of her words.

A career feminist profiting from the sale of fear and anger by manipulation of the truth.

I hope the lads here have the balls to speak up about it.

Ladies have 1 in 3 of you been beaten at home?

Having worked with ladies who survived domestic abuse, supported their children and families, have many friends who have experienced it and suffered myself, I find your post insulting, and of course worded to provoke debate. You are obviously an intelligent man. Use that intelligence to do some research on the effects of domestic abuse. Honestly if you had any compassion you would not have posted this. 33% is a gross underestimate. However, the damage it does to suffers and children can't even be put into words. Shame on you.

I'm sorry I started it... Deep nasty shit but I genuinely believe the stats to be exaggerated to suit other agendas.

As sensitively as I can ask, you must recognise some confirmation bias through personal experience and career? obviously they are not exaggerated from the responses on here you should do some research yourself before making idiotic points like this maybe then you will take ur head out of the sand "

Are you seriously using a couple of women on here who have mentioned past experiences of this behaviour as confirmation that the journalist is accurate?? I'm not saying one way or the other whether she's accurate, but please tell me you're actually joking

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Domestic violence comes in 5 different forms.

Physical

Emotional

Financial

Sexual

Psychological

I would gauge that 1/3 of woman is at the lower end of the scale from the actual truth

"

Not from me never. Well.....nearly never. Jasis its tough when you put it like that. Never intentionally though and never with malice. ....cept maybe that one time but.......

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


"

I would gauge that 1/3 of woman is at the lower end of the scale from the actual truth

Last point.... How do you get that result?

Do you honestly think 1/3 of men are abusive?

1/3 of women being subject to domestic violence does not mean 1/3 of men are abusive. Who says that the abusers are solely male? What about same sex relationships? What about women living with their parents who are abusing them? Or the women whose teenage/adult kids are abusing them? Domestic violence is not so black and white so as to be women abused by their partners (I use women in this example as the original post was questioning 1/3 of women in violent relationships. Of course men are subjected to it to)"

That's why I said roughly to cover other scenarios.

Obviously the victims who contribute (again my sympathies) here colour the sentiment and make it appear highly prevalent but there is a silent majority who haven't been abused and haven't added to the post.

Sounds like support services and the cops need to up their game... as much as it kills me to agree with such a venomous one sided churnalist on anything

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago

The article I'm on about is not the one linked. It's from last weeks "weekend" supplement

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago

From the article written December 2016 taking a peak rate of 475 adult women calling support services cherry picked from a single day back in 2014. Now let's assume it's different women calling at the same rate everyday...

475 x 365 divided by approx 1.3 million adult women gives 13.3%

Or in other words a 20% margin of I just made it up for poetic license (it is said).

If I add 50% to the peak figure to account for unreported cases and I got 713 per day or 20% of the female adult population

Still not impressed?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

It not just men who are abusive it can be the women too. It has happened to me where I was told by my ex when I could see my friends and when I could see family or go training. Then had another ex take money from me and beat me

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By *oggoneMan
over a year ago

Derry


"From the article written December 2016 taking a peak rate of 475 adult women calling support services cherry picked from a single day back in 2014. Now let's assume it's different women calling at the same rate everyday...

475 x 365 divided by approx 1.3 million adult women gives 13.3%

Or in other words a 20% margin of I just made it up for poetic license (it is said).

If I add 50% to the peak figure to account for unreported cases and I got 713 per day or 20% of the female adult population

Still not impressed?

"

Absolutely.

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


"From the article written December 2016 taking a peak rate of 475 adult women calling support services cherry picked from a single day back in 2014. Now let's assume it's different women calling at the same rate everyday...

475 x 365 divided by approx 1.3 million adult women gives 13.3%

Or in other words a 20% margin of I just made it up for poetic license (it is said).

If I add 50% to the peak figure to account for unreported cases and I got 713 per day or 20% of the female adult population

Still not impressed?

Absolutely. "

Why? You seem like a smart considered gent from your other posts.

Are you OK with the abuse of statistics to justify concepts like "toxic masculinity" or how she argues that the #notallmen people who point out that abuse can affect both men and women should just shut up because more men are abusive than women overall.

That's like saying some victims count more than others.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"The article I'm on about is not the one linked. It's from last weeks "weekend" supplement "

Can you post a link to it?

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


"The article I'm on about is not the one linked. It's from last weeks "weekend" supplement

Can you post a link to it?"

You have to register to read it

http://www.irishexaminer.com/viewpoints/columnists/louise-oneill/louise-o39neill-mna-na-heireann-i-am-proud-to-be-one-of-you-444336.html

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"The article I'm on about is not the one linked. It's from last weeks "weekend" supplement

Can you post a link to it?

You have to register to read it

http://www.irishexaminer.com/viewpoints/columnists/louise-oneill/louise-o39neill-mna-na-heireann-i-am-proud-to-be-one-of-you-444336.html"

Thanks, I read it.

It's a bit of a meandering piece.

I will confirm that she did indeed write 'it is said'.

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By *s louWoman
over a year ago

Enniskillen

"Domestic violence is said to affect one in three women in this country and yet we see vital shelters being closed down due to lack of funding"

Her exact words. Nowhere do I see her mention one in three men are violent, so OP I am baffled by your statement in your original post saying that basically she is saying 1/3 of men are abusers. She doesn't say this.

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


""Domestic violence is said to affect one in three women in this country and yet we see vital shelters being closed down due to lack of funding"

Her exact words. Nowhere do I see her mention one in three men are violent, so OP I am baffled by your statement in your original post saying that basically she is saying 1/3 of men are abusers. She doesn't say this."

It is infered further down the piece. And we all know barring lesbian couples and odd parents/kids that it is men who beat women in the home...I used the word roughly for that reason.

My point is still that it's deliberate exaggeration of the truth.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"One thing I have seen here bar one poster is that domestic violence is targeted at females however there is probally as much targeted towards men and I ain't just talking hen pecked "

People's reaction to a man being physically assaulted by his female partner can be very, very different to what the reaction would be if he physically assaulted her.

I find this shocking.

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By *ir1967Man
over a year ago

in da sticks, london, amsterdam, madrid


""Domestic violence is said to affect one in three women in this country and yet we see vital shelters being closed down due to lack of funding"

Her exact words. Nowhere do I see her mention one in three men are violent, so OP I am baffled by your statement in your original post saying that basically she is saying 1/3 of men are abusers. She doesn't say this.

It is infered further down the piece. And we all know barring lesbian couples and odd parents/kids that it is men who beat women in the home...I used the word roughly for that reason.

My point is still that it's deliberate exaggeration of the truth. "

I am afraid it's rather the opposite. Many cases of abuses have not been filed and therefore will never appear in the statistics

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By *oxic1998Woman
over a year ago

Belfast


"Had years of psychological and verbal abuse. Especially when he drank. He started to verbally abuse our 3 year old daughter. That was it for me. Headed to a shelter. I bet theres a lot of women reading this thread who will remain silent. And yes I know men are victims too. We should all speak up. The mental damage is sometimes worse than the physical. "

It's hard to get your head out of that space once it's there. The feeling of being useless and worthless pops up at unusual times.....and agree the mental damage is the worst for me. Separated now for over 12 years but it only takes a word or message to knock me back

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By *s louWoman
over a year ago

Enniskillen

At least 1 in 3 women, or up to one billion women, have been beaten, coerced into sex, or otherwise abused in their lifetimes. Usually, the abuser is a member of her own family or someone known to her. (Ending Violence against Women, L Heise, M Ellsberg, M Gottemoeller, 1999)

Only 29% of women who had experienced severe abuse had reported it to An Garda Síochána. [National Crime Council and ESRI, Domestic Abuse of Women and Men in Ireland, 2005]

1 in 7 women in Ireland compared to 1 in 17 men experience severe domestic violence. Women are over twice as likely as men to have experienced severe physical abuse, seven times more likely to have experienced sexual abuse, and are more likely to experience serious injuries than men. (National Crime Council and ESRI, Domestic Abuse of Women and Men in Ireland, 2005)

Just a few statistics...

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago

OK OK but is it 1 in 3 or 1 in 7?

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By *s louWoman
over a year ago

Enniskillen

I take it to be 1 in 3 worldwide....1 in 7 in Ireland

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago

1 in 3 when everything bad is rolled into one category and rounded up to a nice even number?

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


"I take it to be 1 in 3 worldwide....1 in 7 in Ireland"

And yet you are fighting with me because I'm saying 1 in 3 for Ireland is hard to believe

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"OK OK but is it 1 in 3 or 1 in 7?"

It does say SEVERE. I don't know the definition or levels of the different kind of abuse. Maybe only violent abuse is considered severe.

I'm sure you can google this and present the definition back to us.

But what's the point in commenting. You just want to be right just for the sake of it it seems.

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago

Equally the 1 in 3 is worldwide.

We live in a relatively safe society... but not safe enough as we have unfortunately heard, which again I can only sympathise with

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By *oggoneMan
over a year ago

Derry


"From the article written December 2016 taking a peak rate of 475 adult women calling support services cherry picked from a single day back in 2014. Now let's assume it's different women calling at the same rate everyday...

475 x 365 divided by approx 1.3 million adult women gives 13.3%

Or in other words a 20% margin of I just made it up for poetic license (it is said).

If I add 50% to the peak figure to account for unreported cases and I got 713 per day or 20% of the female adult population

Still not impressed?

Absolutely.

Why? You seem like a smart considered gent from your other posts.

Are you OK with the abuse of statistics to justify concepts like "toxic masculinity" or how she argues that the #notallmen people who point out that abuse can affect both men and women should just shut up because more men are abusive than women overall.

That's like saying some victims count more than others. "

I'm ok with a free press with columnists being entitled to state their opinions. As to whether the stats that is claimed in the article, I've lived long enough to know that stats can be used and misused. As to my intelligence, I think it's Aristotle that I'm quoting when I say all that I know is that I know nothing at all.

If a newspaper columnist wants to assert her opinions I'm not going to lose sleep over it.

Abuse within a relationship can take many forms. I've heard more than one woman say that physical abuse was better that emotional or psychological abuse. The bruises will go eventually whereas isolating someone, destroying their self esteem, their confidence, their hopes, controlling them........Well that takes a bit longer. For me the real heartbreaking thing about it is how quickly it becomes normalised. Sometimes neither the abused or abuser is fully aware of whats happening. Sometimes both parties have learned it from their parent

Gender issues are incredibly complex and nuanced and I'm not going to get into debating the accuracy of the stats this person claims.

I do take issue with the way you have raised them and why you have raised them and when you raise them. The titles and timing is questionable to me. I don't see it as constructive in the least.

Yeah its quite easy to feel that men are becoming redundant (pale stale and male) Phrases like 'toxic masculinity' aren't helpful to the debate. And its the squeaky wheel that gets the oil The age of a single wage earner with a job for life supporting his family is history. At the same time I can think that women have been sold a pup

Mens roles in society are changing, I don't think that men are dealing well with the change.

This post probably is the not most organised or coherent, I probably could be more clearer in what I want to say. I'm on a promise tonight. Without setting to offend anyone I'll just finish by saying that trying to win an Internet argument is like winning gold in the special olympics. Before anyone starts sharpening their pitchforks, Ill state that I am autistic (for real). GTFO I can make jokes like that.

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago

Great post dude

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