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referendum

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By *rockoncies OP   Man
over a year ago

limerick

The more I read about this the more I want to vote No! I was thinking yes first but as it goes on it seems to me a big fuss about something other than equality! Also I thought of few scenario where this could be very awkward

Let's say two gay women are married to eachother brilliant great all good. Then they decided to have kids as they are both able to conceive one of the them goes and get pregnant!

So here the question what happens to the rights of the biological father if they choose to do it this way, (not talking sperm donations just in case) so they are married which mean the side of the cpl that would place father side would be legal co guardian and have co joined legal custody, while the biological father will have nothing or very little. I consider that a little off putting among other things also you can never replace a father figure!

If you have children you can understand that blood is always thicker!

Now in men side (surrogate mother) another scenario that can be messy, and adoption being probably most viable option!

One more thing this is all about getting real Men and Women, eternal fight for equal equality

Just to realise that men are women are different and they should be treated different, the world would be boring if we would be the same, do women have same opportunities as men? Well no they don't! we all know this we all contribute our bit in no making it equal!

We have different sets of skills and yes they can be acquired but nature created us different and that's the beauty of it!

Just one more rant communism isn't that based on equality? And we do know it doesn't really work they idea is great on paper but why someone than make less effort than me have the same as me? Leave you with that thought! Express you opinion freely please don't take it personal as its not a personal matter

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

It's possibly a separate issue as this referendum is just about marriage rights.

But there are many single fathers campaigning for years without much success for rights to access and see their kids..

Equality isn't ever equal..

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By *ichael McCarthyMan
over a year ago

Lucan

Surely the above scenarios exist already with surrogacy and single parents? I fail to see what would convince you to vote no from that.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"It's possibly a separate issue as this referendum is just about marriage rights.

But there are many single fathers campaigning for years without much success for rights to access and see their kids..

Equality isn't ever equal..

"

From what I understand these are seperate issues, many couples (straight) use surrogates in this country and there is a need for further legislation on it, as for sperm donation I am under the impression that u cannot use Irish sperm here, donor sperm is imported (could be wrong) this referendum is about giving people the same rights as straight people, can't see anything wrong with that.

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By *ingerrrrWoman
over a year ago

Meath

It is very easy to replace a father figure. Not all men that create children actually want anything to do with them.

I'm sure if a female female couple wanted to have a child they would go find a man that's in that frame of mind.

They don't need to register his name on the birth cert, and as they aren't married (to each other) they can't unless he goes and registers with them after the child is born.

I'll be voting yes.

Why would I limit what someone else wants to do with their life just because it's a little different. Everyone has the right to marry whom ever they choose.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Any man can be a father but not every father can be a dad

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By *rockoncies OP   Man
over a year ago

limerick


"Surely the above scenarios exist already with surrogacy and single parents? I fail to see what would convince you to vote no from that. "

I don't see the point to vote yes other than satisfying the need for a especial treatment for gays in terms of right because it seems that way and that's certainly not equality, maybe it should be call something else

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Any man can be a father but not every father can be a dad"

Totally agree

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By *rockoncies OP   Man
over a year ago

limerick


"It is very easy to replace a father figure. Not all men that create children actually want anything to do with them.

I'm sure if a female female couple wanted to have a child they would go find a man that's in that frame of mind.

They don't need to register his name on the birth cert, and as they aren't married (to each other) they can't unless he goes and registers with them after the child is born.

I'll be voting yes.

Why would I limit what someone else wants to do with their life just because it's a little different. Everyone has the right to marry whom ever they choose. "

It's impossible to replace a father, yes some men might nit want to be fathers but that doesn't speak for the ones that do and are there for their kids as a strong father figure that's irreplaceable!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Surely the above scenarios exist already with surrogacy and single parents? I fail to see what would convince you to vote no from that.

I don't see the point to vote yes other than satisfying the need for a especial treatment for gays in terms of right because it seems that way and that's certainly not equality, maybe it should be call something else "

How is it special treatment to want the same rights as everyone else?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Any man can be a father but not every father can be a dad"

And there's many a mother who has children who isn't fit to look after herself let alone her kids.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

[Removed by poster at 08/05/15 11:11:02]

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Surely the above scenarios exist already with surrogacy and single parents? I fail to see what would convince you to vote no from that.

I don't see the point to vote yes other than satisfying the need for a especial treatment for gays in terms of right because it seems that way and that's certainly not equality, maybe it should be call something else "

So you dont think its right that a couple who should have the same rights as straight married couples? Its not about special treatment its about giving them the same rights as others have, to say that isnt right in this day and age is actually disgusting. My own brother is trans, he cant get married as he is listed as a female, should it be right he cant because he's a bio female? And as for your other ranting on kids etc thats just making excuses. Actually read what this is about before making small minded judgements

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Any man can be a father but not every father can be a dad

And there's many a mother who has children who isn't fit to look after herself let alone her kids. "

Well ya that's true too

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By *rutus83Man
over a year ago

naas


"The more I read about this the more I want to vote No! I was thinking yes first but as it goes on it seems to me a big fuss about something other than equality! Also I thought of few scenario where this could be very awkward

Let's say two gay women are married to eachother brilliant great all good. Then they decided to have kids as they are both able to conceive one of the them goes and get pregnant!

So here the question what happens to the rights of the biological father if they choose to do it this way, (not talking sperm donations just in case) so they are married which mean the side of the cpl that would place father side would be legal co guardian and have co joined legal custody, while the biological father will have nothing or very little. I consider that a little off putting among other things also you can never replace a father figure!

If you have children you can understand that blood is always thicker!

Now in men side (surrogate mother) another scenario that can be messy, and adoption being probably most viable option!

One more thing this is all about getting real Men and Women, eternal fight for equal equality

Just to realise that men are women are different and they should be treated different, the world would be boring if we would be the same, do women have same opportunities as men? Well no they don't! we all know this we all contribute our bit in no making it equal!

We have different sets of skills and yes they can be acquired but nature created us different and that's the beauty of it!

Just one more rant communism isn't that based on equality? And we do know it doesn't really work they idea is great on paper but why someone than make less effort than me have the same as me? Leave you with that thought! Express you opinion freely please don't take it personal as its not a personal matter "
i had a conversation with someone over this and as far as i was told "gays" could already adopt a child so put the hold kids situation aside from what is bein voted one and treat them with the same respect and equality that you want to be treat im not tryin to put my view on you just hoping it opens yours eyes

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

My stance is simple, women and men can get married, men and men should be able to get married, women and women should be able to get married.

The issue if children shouldn't come into it at all. Will someone soon be suggesting that a man and woman not be allowed to get married if they aren't able to have kids? Can't create the 'perfect family'?

The 'no' voters spout bollox and are typical of old fashioned Ireland.

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By *aid backMan
over a year ago

by a lake with my rod out

fathers do have rights im and unmarried father and yes it was a difficult and long winded road but I now have the exact same rights as my childs mother. its all about wanting to have them and fighting for them. I used to travel about 1000 miles every second weekend to see my daughter the courts seen this and the fact I never rowed over the money to support my child as grounds to give me joint custody of my daughter iv been very lucky that the courts have 9 times out of 10 sided with me in all disputes only because I never bickred or slung mud my only concern was to have my daughter in my life as much as possible.

so if a female cpl uses a guy just for a baby that man if he chooses has rights he can exercise to support and be a partof tthat childs life.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Surely the above scenarios exist already with surrogacy and single parents? I fail to see what would convince you to vote no from that.

I don't see the point to vote yes other than satisfying the need for a especial treatment for gays in terms of right because it seems that way and that's certainly not equality, maybe it should be call something else "

How is it special treatment exactly? They are just being given the same marriage rights as straight people, simple as , the surrogacy issue is removed from this, a friend of mine had child withher (by donor) partner, they were together for years (lesbian ccouple) when they broke up my friend had absolutely no rights in regard to the child, how is that right? Now she is lucky she has access and is still friendly with her former partner. But if they had been married I am sure her rights if access would have been better.

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By *randub69Man
over a year ago

city


"fathers do have rights im and unmarried father and yes it was a difficult and long winded road but I now have the exact same rights as my childs mother. its all about wanting to have them and fighting for them. I used to travel about 1000 miles every second weekend to see my daughter the courts seen this and the fact I never rowed over the money to support my child as grounds to give me joint custody of my daughter iv been very lucky that the courts have 9 times out of 10 sided with me in all disputes only because I never bickred or slung mud my only concern was to have my daughter in my life as much as possible.

so if a female cpl uses a guy just for a baby that man if he chooses has rights he can exercise to support and be a partof tthat childs life. "

you say you have the exact same rights as the mother....are u saying the child could live with you full time if all parties agreed?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

TAKE THE CHILDREN OUT OF IT!

Should two people of the same sex be able to marry and have the same rights as a heterosexual couple?

YES

or

NO

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By *aid backMan
over a year ago

by a lake with my rod out


"fathers do have rights im and unmarried father and yes it was a difficult and long winded road but I now have the exact same rights as my childs mother. its all about wanting to have them and fighting for them. I used to travel about 1000 miles every second weekend to see my daughter the courts seen this and the fact I never rowed over the money to support my child as grounds to give me joint custody of my daughter iv been very lucky that the courts have 9 times out of 10 sided with me in all disputes only because I never bickred or slung mud my only concern was to have my daughter in my life as much as possible.

so if a female cpl uses a guy just for a baby that man if he chooses has rights he can exercise to support and be a partof tthat childs life.

you say you have the exact same rights as the mother....are u saying the child could live with you full time if all parties agreed?"

yes I have joint custody now it took me 5 years of court but I got it in the end. if I lived closer I could have my daughter over 50% of the time but due to the distance I have her 50% of her free time. if my daughter ever wanted to live with me full time then she would live with me full time both me and my ex have agreed to this but the chances of it are slim as my ex is a very good mother and my daughter has lots of friends etc in the town she lives

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By *rutus83Man
over a year ago

naas


"TAKE THE CHILDREN OUT OF IT!

Should two people of the same sex be able to marry and have the same rights as a heterosexual couple?

YES

or

Children shouldn't be discussed as they can be adopted by gay men and women from what i have bein told

NO"

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

In a ideal world 2 people fall in love,get married,have kids decide against having kids!

It shouldn't matter if that 2 people are FM/MM/FF if they are in love they should have a right to marry!

And as for the ideal conditions of bringing children into the world,we come from a long line of UNIDEAL families...

How many of us grew up without a father? Or a mother?

How many of us were brought up by out grandmothers?

Look at the church forcing women to give up their babies because they weren't born in ideal circumstances...

It's time to put all this hypocrisy behind us! It'd time to move out of the dark ages!!

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By *randub69Man
over a year ago

city


"fathers do have rights im and unmarried father and yes it was a difficult and long winded road but I now have the exact same rights as my childs mother. its all about wanting to have them and fighting for them. I used to travel about 1000 miles every second weekend to see my daughter the courts seen this and the fact I never rowed over the money to support my child as grounds to give me joint custody of my daughter iv been very lucky that the courts have 9 times out of 10 sided with me in all disputes only because I never bickred or slung mud my only concern was to have my daughter in my life as much as possible.

so if a female cpl uses a guy just for a baby that man if he chooses has rights he can exercise to support and be a partof tthat childs life.

you say you have the exact same rights as the mother....are u saying the child could live with you full time if all parties agreed?

yes I have joint custody now it took me 5 years of court but I got it in the end. if I lived closer I could have my daughter over 50% of the time but due to the distance I have her 50% of her free time. if my daughter ever wanted to live with me full time then she would live with me full time both me and my ex have agreed to this but the chances of it are slim as my ex is a very good mother and my daughter has lots of friends etc in the town she lives "

good for you and we'll done for fighting for your rights....

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By *aid backMan
over a year ago

by a lake with my rod out


"fathers do have rights im and unmarried father and yes it was a difficult and long winded road but I now have the exact same rights as my childs mother. its all about wanting to have them and fighting for them. I used to travel about 1000 miles every second weekend to see my daughter the courts seen this and the fact I never rowed over the money to support my child as grounds to give me joint custody of my daughter iv been very lucky that the courts have 9 times out of 10 sided with me in all disputes only because I never bickred or slung mud my only concern was to have my daughter in my life as much as possible.

so if a female cpl uses a guy just for a baby that man if he chooses has rights he can exercise to support and be a partof tthat childs life.

you say you have the exact same rights as the mother....are u saying the child could live with you full time if all parties agreed?

yes I have joint custody now it took me 5 years of court but I got it in the end. if I lived closer I could have my daughter over 50% of the time but due to the distance I have her 50% of her free time. if my daughter ever wanted to live with me full time then she would live with me full time both me and my ex have agreed to this but the chances of it are slim as my ex is a very good mother and my daughter has lots of friends etc in the town she lives

good for you and we'll done for fighting for your rights...."

sometimes you just have to fight

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By *imwildWoman
over a year ago

around

Dragging children into this referendum is ridiculous. Nothing to do with adoption, surrogacy, paternity etc laws. Because our stupid constitution classifies marriage as the basis of all familiy has nothing to do with children. According to our constitution a married couple with no children is a family. An unmarried couple with children isn't. So if two people of the same sex get married it changes nothing else except they can be called a family.

What people should be campaigning for is a change to the meaning of the term family in the constitution.

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By *igertigerCouple (MM)
over a year ago

nr Letterkenny


"Dragging children into this referendum is ridiculous. Nothing to do with adoption, surrogacy, paternity etc laws. Because our stupid constitution classifies marriage as the basis of all familiy has nothing to do with children. According to our constitution a married couple with no children is a family. An unmarried couple with children isn't. So if two people of the

same sex get married it changes nothing

else except they can be called a

family.

The ability to have children is not a prerequisite to civil marriage in this country. People are able to divorce and remarry someone when they are well past their child bearing age. Infertile couples are also able to marry.

A same sex couple should be able to form a family through marriage, a family of two. It's hard from the moment you realise you are gay to know that you'll never be able to form a legally recognised family unit through marriage. Mothers and fathers on realising their sons/daughters are gay are bereft at the loss of the prospect of their children being able to form a family unit and the security it provides. Children deserve to know from an early age that marriage is open to them regardless of the sex of their partner. Please vote Yes. It will make the path through life easier for us who are gay. It can be a tough life due to prejudices so please do what you can to ease the burden.

"

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By *aid backMan
over a year ago

by a lake with my rod out

I do think the main problem some people have with gay marriage is that they will raise the bar in terms of how flamboyant and showy their weddings will be and the straight guys will havea pain in their bollox with their fiances wanting to keep up. if gay people promise not to raise the bar too high im sure everyone will vote yes .

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

[Removed by poster at 08/05/15 20:24:29]

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

[Removed by poster at 08/05/15 20:24:04]

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Dragging children into this referendum is ridiculous. Nothing to do with adoption, surrogacy, paternity etc laws. Because our stupid constitution classifies marriage as the basis of all familiy has nothing to do with children. According to our constitution a married couple with no children is a family. An unmarried couple with children isn't. So if two people of the

same sex get married it changes nothing

else except they can be called a

family.

The ability to have children is not a prerequisite to civil marriage in this country. People are able to divorce and remarry someone when they are well past their child bearing age. Infertile couples are also able to marry.

A same sex couple should be able to form a family through marriage, a family of two. It's hard from the moment you realise you are gay to know that you'll never be able to form a legally recognised family unit through marriage. Mothers and fathers on realising their sons/daughters are gay are bereft at the loss of the prospect of their children being able to form a family unit and the security it provides. Children deserve to know from an early age that marriage is open to them regardless of the sex of their partner. Please vote Yes. It will make the path through life easier for us who are gay. It can be a tough life due to prejudices so please do what you can to ease the burden.

"
very well put

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By *igertigerCouple (MM)
over a year ago

nr Letterkenny


"Dragging children into this referendum is ridiculous. Nothing to do with adoption, surrogacy, paternity etc laws. Because our stupid constitution classifies marriage as the basis of all familiy has nothing to do with children. According to our constitution a married couple with no children is a family. An unmarried couple with children isn't. So if two people of the

same sex get married it changes nothing

else except they can be called a

family.

The ability to have children is not a prerequisite to civil marriage in this country. People are able to divorce and remarry someone when they are well past their child bearing age. Infertile couples are also able to marry.

A same sex couple should be able to form a family through marriage, a family of two. It's hard from the moment you realise you are gay to know that you'll never be able to form a legally recognised family unit through marriage. Mothers and fathers on realising their sons/daughters are gay are bereft at the loss of the prospect of their children being able to form a family unit and the security it provides. Children deserve to know from an early age that marriage is open to them regardless of the sex of their partner. Please vote Yes. It will make the path through life easier for us who are gay. It can be a tough life due to prejudices so please do what you can to ease the burden.

very well put "

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

If ye believe everything the no campaign say that a gay man or woman chose to be gay its not a choice they are born that way they should have every right to get married have a family this country has been far to long a racist bigoted country ruled by the church I for one and my family are voting yes

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I have spoken about this with about 20 random people (my friends all vote yes, so I'm curious how people I don't know think) and in the end all people who said they will vote NO are doing it because they think it's unnatural and just wrong that two males are together (funnily, they're not that prejudiced with two women).

They all started the argument about children's rights, they already have civil partnership etc. But when I really started digging in, the actual disgust about gay men came out.

It's all about that. I'm not sure these people will change their minds and I fear it will end up in an overall no.

I really, really hope the Irish people will do the right thing.

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By *imwildWoman
over a year ago

around


"Dragging children into this referendum is ridiculous. Nothing to do with adoption, surrogacy, paternity etc laws. Because our stupid constitution classifies marriage as the basis of all familiy has nothing to do with children. According to our constitution a married couple with no children is a family. An unmarried couple with children isn't. So if two people of the

same sex get married it changes nothing

else except they can be called a

family.

The ability to have children is not a prerequisite to civil marriage in this country. People are able to divorce and remarry someone when they are well past their child bearing age. Infertile couples are also able to marry.

A same sex couple should be able to form a family through marriage, a family of two. It's hard from the moment you realise you are gay to know that you'll never be able to form a legally recognised family unit through marriage. Mothers and fathers on realising their sons/daughters are gay are bereft at the loss of the prospect of their children being able to form a family unit and the security it provides. Children deserve to know from an early age that marriage is open to them regardless of the sex of their partner. Please vote Yes. It will make the path through life easier for us who are gay. It can be a tough life due to prejudices so please do what you can to ease the burden.

"

Just to clarify on my post in case you misunderstood. I'm voting yes. Im in favour of anyone that chooses to get married can do no matter their sexual preference.

But as an unmarried parent by choice, the meaning of family in the constitution is ludricous.

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By *igertigerCouple (MM)
over a year ago

nr Letterkenny


"I have spoken about this with about 20 random people (my friends all vote yes, so I'm curious how people I don't know think) and in the end all people who said they will vote NO are doing it because they think it's unnatural and just wrong that two males are together (funnily, they're not that prejudiced with two women).

They all started the argument about children's rights, they already have civil partnership etc. But when I really started digging in, the actual disgust about gay men came out.

It's all about that. I'm not sure these people will change their minds and I fear it will end up in an overall no.

I really, really hope the Irish people will do the right thing. "

Some will vote NO because of Christian doctrine and a deeply ingrained fear to go against the church's views on homosexuality. Unfortunately for them they will do as instructed by the Church...personal conscience doesn't come in to it. Sadly in Ireland most Catholics do not possess any real understanding of the Bible/old Testament and few read the scriptures to really know how absurd and outdated some of the teachings are. After all it isn't too long ago that unmarried mothers were ostracised by the Church....how foolish must those well intentioned parents who on turned their back on their pregnant unmarried daughters as they sent them off to the mother and baby homes now feel....It will be the same when they realise a son/daughter/grandchildren/niece nephew is gay and they've denied then a basic human right....divorce is another example but enough from me.

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By *igertigerCouple (MM)
over a year ago

nr Letterkenny


"Dragging children into this referendum is ridiculous. Nothing to do with adoption, surrogacy, paternity etc laws. Because our stupid constitution classifies marriage as the basis of all familiy has nothing to do with children. According to our constitution a married couple with no children is a family. An unmarried couple with children isn't. So if two people of the

same sex get married it changes nothing

else except they can be called a

family.

The ability to have children is not a prerequisite to civil marriage in this country. People are able to divorce and remarry someone when they are well past their child bearing age. Infertile couples are also able to marry.

A same sex couple should be able to form a family through marriage, a family of two. It's hard from the moment you realise you are gay to know that you'll never be able to form a legally recognised family unit through marriage. Mothers and fathers on realising their sons/daughters are gay are bereft at the loss of the prospect of their children being able to form a family unit and the security it provides. Children deserve to know from an early age that marriage is open to them regardless of the sex of their partner. Please vote Yes. It will make the path through life easier for us who are gay. It can be a tough life due to prejudices so please do what you can to ease the burden.

Just to clarify on my post in case you misunderstood. I'm voting yes. Im in favour of anyone that chooses to get married can do no matter their sexual preference.

But as an unmarried parent by choice, the meaning of family in the constitution is ludricous. "

Yes you are a family. Our constitution needs to be redrawn for the modern day. x

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"It is very easy to replace a father figure. Not all men that create children actually want anything to do with them.

I'm sure if a female female couple wanted to have a child they would go find a man that's in that frame of mind.

They don't need to register his name on the birth cert, and as they aren't married (to each other) they can't unless he goes and registers with them after the child is born.

I'll be voting yes.

Why would I limit what someone else wants to do with their life just because it's a little different. Everyone has the right to marry whom ever they choose. "

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