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"Does anyone know what to do in the case of your photos being taken and shared off the site without your knowledge or permission? Reported to admin.. But the profile has hidden themselves. Happened so much. We had same fake girl msg us of 2 or 3 profiles Portrayed themselves as a couple but it's a male " | |||
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"Have you checked the terms and conditions of this site? " No one is allowed to take photos and share, its called coco's law | |||
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I hope the culprit is found out and named & shamed but more so that no personal damage is done to you and you’re own good name … 
#SupportEachOther | |||
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"Have you checked the terms and conditions of this site? No one is allowed to take photos and share, its called coco's law " Contact the guards and report it. | |||
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"Have you checked the terms and conditions of this site? No one is allowed to take photos and share, its called coco's law " I'm just saying do you give up that right when you share your pictures on this site. | |||
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"Have you checked the terms and conditions of this site? No one is allowed to take photos and share, its called coco's law I'm just saying do you give up that right when you share your pictures on this site. " I beg your pardon?? You think it's okay for perv's to come on here and share your photos without your permission externally? | |||
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"Have you checked the terms and conditions of this site? No one is allowed to take photos and share, its called coco's law I'm just saying do you give up that right when you share your pictures on this site. I beg your pardon?? You think it's okay for perv's to come on here and share your photos without your permission externally? " No I didn't say that at all. What I said was check the terms and conditions of this site and see what rights you may have given up. Look up the whole Sydney university thing. | |||
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"Have you checked the terms and conditions of this site? No one is allowed to take photos and share, its called coco's law Contact the guards and report it. " Reported him now, was posing as a couple. My friend is a guard and I have told him now. | |||
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"When your pix are gone there gone,thats it.When you put them up there public...nothing the guards can do /" That's what I thought. | |||
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"Does anyone know what to do in the case of your photos being taken and shared off the site without your knowledge or permission? Reported to admin.. But the profile has hidden themselves. Portrayed themselves as a couple but it's a male " That's a shity thing to do. Do you know what sites they have used your photos on. | |||
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"As far as I know. Cocos law overules the sites terms and conditions. Those are just there to stop you bringing the site to court. You can still report the person that is using your images." How can I send email with evidence to admin? They are not helping me. | |||
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"You can contact the Guards all you want, but what could they possibly do? Send a CSI team to Fab HQ, to hack the mainframe to find his IP address? Realistically, the Guards in this country will do less than nothing if you can't already prove it yourself. All you can do is report the profile and hope that Fab blocks them and they don't set up another one with the same pics. " This. | |||
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"Name and shame them and we can all report them. " Cannot do that.. Here | |||
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"Under Cocos Law, it’s a crime to share, or threaten the sharing, of intimate images without consent of the person in the picture. Fab can’t do anything about it but the guards can. Remember that if you think that sharing pics in a kik group is fun "This is true. | |||
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"You can contact the Guards all you want, but what could they possibly do? Send a CSI team to Fab HQ, to hack the mainframe to find his IP address? Realistically, the Guards in this country will do less than nothing if you can't already prove it yourself. All you can do is report the profile and hope that Fab blocks them and they don't set up another one with the same pics. " Unfortunately this is also true | |||
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"The profile is linked to a business address in south africa.. So much for verifications on here.. And multiple verifications at that.. A kind fabber told me what to do.. If there are kik groups or other groups so I can give details. Admin don't want much to do with it. " What does this awful man hope to achieve? | |||
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"You can contact the Guards all you want, but what could they possibly do? Send a CSI team to Fab HQ, to hack the mainframe to find his IP address? Realistically, the Guards in this country will do less than nothing if you can't already prove it yourself. All you can do is report the profile and hope that Fab blocks them and they don't set up another one with the same pics. " The pictures were shared off site. Fab doesn’t come into it. They can request details from fab re his IP if the OP doesn’t have any details | |||
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"Thanks to CSI by a friendly fabber I now have all their actual details..who they are(actual name) phone number home address... Guards or someone say something " Gards have no excuse if you go with all that info. Well done and good luck. | |||
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"Does anyone know what to do in the case of your photos being taken and shared off the site without your knowledge or permission? Reported to admin.. But the profile has hidden themselves. Portrayed themselves as a couple but it's a male " Unfortunately if you upload photos here publicly then they are open to be downloaded, copied shared etc, no law in place to prevent that, there is no expectation of privacy in public | |||
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"Have you checked the terms and conditions of this site? No one is allowed to take photos and share, its called coco's law " Why are you asking if you know ? | |||
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"A kik group or something is badly needed for fabbers.. Far too many perv's on here posing as someone else " Unfortunately chatgroups like that just make the problem even worse. They have a history of legitimising things like this and are abused by people to create stories about others they have had a minor disagreement with. | |||
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"When your pix are gone there gone,thats it.When you put them up there public...nothing the guards can do /" That use to be true ... its factually incorrect now ... You can never get your photos back and they will continue to circulate most likely, However they aren't public when you post them online. That's no longer how it works thankfully | |||
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"As far as I know. Cocos law overules the sites terms and conditions. Those are just there to stop you bringing the site to court. You can still report the person that is using your images." You can also bring sites to court in this case regardless of terms and conditions | |||
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"As far as I know. Cocos law overules the sites terms and conditions. Those are just there to stop you bringing the site to court. You can still report the person that is using your images. How can I send email with evidence to admin? They are not helping me. " Your not likely to get help from sites until you instigate legal proceedings... this dosnt mean you need to go to court , however you will need to make a request referencing the supporting legal obligation/ framework . | |||
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"Name and shame them and we can all report them. Cannot do that.. Here" You can if you use a simple code  | |||
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"Does anyone know what to do in the case of your photos being taken and shared off the site without your knowledge or permission? Reported to admin.. But the profile has hidden themselves. Portrayed themselves as a couple but it's a male Unfortunately if you upload photos here publicly then they are open to be downloaded, copied shared etc, no law in place to prevent that, there is no expectation of privacy in public " This isn't the first time you have argued that pictures posted online are public property... your fucking wrong ... for God sake go educate yourself on the topic before you come on worrying people   | |||
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"Ah someone has mentioned the site going to court. Admin about to close this thread. " Nobody mentioned the site going to court ... people referred to websites in general... stop stirring shit ... its a useful tread where fabbers are supporting eachother and admin will see that for what it is ! | |||
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"Ah someone has mentioned the site going to court. Admin about to close this thread. Nobody mentioned the site going to court ... people referred to websites in general... stop stirring shit ... its a useful tread where fabbers are supporting eachother and admin will see that for what it is ! " Whos taken the jam from your doughnut. Merely giving a heads up. | |||
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"Does anyone know what to do in the case of your photos being taken and shared off the site without your knowledge or permission? Reported to admin.. But the profile has hidden themselves. Portrayed themselves as a couple but it's a male Unfortunately if you upload photos here publicly then they are open to be downloaded, copied shared etc, no law in place to prevent that, there is no expectation of privacy in public " I’d say you’ll be making a few peoples lists if that’s what you think, holy good fuck..
Why am I not surprised…… | |||
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"Stop posting please, I didn't create this thread for bickering. Thank you to those who have been supportive. End thread. " Dosnt work like that thank fuck 
You don't govern when people should stop talking | |||
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"You can contact the Guards all you want, but what could they possibly do? Send a CSI team to Fab HQ, to hack the mainframe to find his IP address? Realistically, the Guards in this country will do less than nothing if you can't already prove it yourself. All you can do is report the profile and hope that Fab blocks them and they don't set up another one with the same pics. " Unfortunately I have to agree.. My pics have been used on numerous fake accounts all I can do is report it | |||
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"Does anyone know what to do in the case of your photos being taken and shared off the site without your knowledge or permission? Reported to admin.. But the profile has hidden themselves. Portrayed themselves as a couple but it's a male Unfortunately if you upload photos here publicly then they are open to be downloaded, copied shared etc, no law in place to prevent that, there is no expectation of privacy in public This isn't the first time you have argued that pictures posted online are public property... your fucking wrong ... for God sake go educate yourself on the topic before you come on worrying people "Not public property publicly accessible yes, nobody has the right to privacy in a public place the same applies to the internet, if someone decides to publicly upload an image then it's fair game to be copied or shared, you mean to tell me someone would be prosecuted for sending an image on a WhatsApp group ,then half of us would be in jail if that's the case ,total nonsense laws introduced by an out of touch minister for justice ,this is the same woman who wants to introduce a hate speech bill but doesn't even know the definition of hate speech, how can you introduce a law based on feelings not based on facts ? Also the same woman who said Dublin city centre is a safe place to be as she walks down Talbot street flanked by 15 guards, you couldn't make it up , prosecuting someone for sharing an intimate image is very difficult to do ,you need to have hard evidence and this cocos law is very weak at best ,if you upload an image publicly then you only have yourself to blame if someone copies it or shares it end of ,it's like going out on a busy roadside flashing your backside and expecting no one to look at you ,ridiculous | |||
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"Does anyone know what to do in the case of your photos being taken and shared off the site without your knowledge or permission? Reported to admin.. But the profile has hidden themselves. Portrayed themselves as a couple but it's a male " OMG that's horrible we all need to be cautious while seeking out fun with like minded people. | |||
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"Not here for argument, but does the law not apply only to private intimate images rather than those in the public domain? So if photos are shared via private message with an individual and then distributed, that is illegal. But if they're already in the public domain it's not?" Makes sense. Which is worrying. | |||
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"Not here for argument, but does the law not apply only to private intimate images rather than those in the public domain? So if photos are shared via private message with an individual and then distributed, that is illegal. But if they're already in the public domain it's not? Makes sense. Which is worrying. " Not sure. I was reading through the CPS info on prosecuting it as a crime but it's difficult to find anything on this particular scenario. | |||
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"Not here for argument, but does the law not apply only to private intimate images rather than those in the public domain? So if photos are shared via private message with an individual and then distributed, that is illegal. But if they're already in the public domain it's not?" The law doesn't specify that the image needs to be private.... Only that it needs to be intimate. | |||
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"Not here for argument, but does the law not apply only to private intimate images rather than those in the public domain? So if photos are shared via private message with an individual and then distributed, that is illegal. But if they're already in the public domain it's not?" Maybe the OP sent pics which would also mean that no permission to post or send them was was given the other person ..no ? | |||
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"Not here for argument, but does the law not apply only to private intimate images rather than those in the public domain? So if photos are shared via private message with an individual and then distributed, that is illegal. But if they're already in the public domain it's not? Maybe the OP sent pics which would also mean that no permission to post or send them was was given the other person ..no ? " Well, yes. That's what I was saying | |||
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"Not here for argument, but does the law not apply only to private intimate images rather than those in the public domain? So if photos are shared via private message with an individual and then distributed, that is illegal. But if they're already in the public domain it's not? The law doesn't specify that the image needs to be private.... Only that it needs to be intimate." Apologies. The law is different here in Northern Ireland. "Offences relating to image-based sexual abuse are found in the Justice Act (Northern Ireland) 2016. It is an offence under the act to "disclose a private sexual photograph or film of an individual who appears in the photograph or film without their consent with the intention of causing that individual distress"." | |||
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"Not here for argument, but does the law not apply only to private intimate images rather than those in the public domain? So if photos are shared via private message with an individual and then distributed, that is illegal. But if they're already in the public domain it's not? Maybe the OP sent pics which would also mean that no permission to post or send them was was given the other person ..no ? Well, yes. That's what I was saying " Yup..you were spot on with what you said | |||
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"Not here for argument, but does the law not apply only to private intimate images rather than those in the public domain? So if photos are shared via private message with an individual and then distributed, that is illegal. But if they're already in the public domain it's not? Maybe the OP sent pics which would also mean that no permission to post or send them was was given the other person ..no ? " No, he downloaded my public photos and shared them on social media to which a friend of mine alerted me to. If that's not a crime under coco's law then what is its intention to protect against? | |||
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"Need to know for all farmers ESPECIALLY LAST BIT Offences There are 2 separate criminal offences for the making or sharing of intimate images that cause harm. Harm can take many forms but includes anything which seriously interferes with the victim’s peace or privacy, or which causes alarm or distress. 1. Intent to cause harm The first, more serious offence is distributing, publishing or threatening to distribute or publish an intimate image without consent and with the intent to cause harm or being reckless as to whether harm is caused (knowing but not necessarily intending for harm to be caused). This is sometimes known as revenge porn. If you are found guilty of this offence, you can be sentenced to a class A fine or a maximum prison term of 12 months or both in the District Court. More serious versions of the offence can be prosecuted in the Circuit Court such as where a large number of intimate images are released or where the intimate images are shared to a wide audience. If you are found guilty of this offence in the Circuit Court, you can be sentenced to an unlimited fine or maximum prison term of 7 years or both. 2. No specific intent to cause harm The second, less serious offence is recording, distributing or publishing an intimate image without consent even if there was no specific intent to cause harm. This offence would cover situations such as sharing intimate images of someone you do not know. For example, you may receive an intimate image of a person you do not know in a social media message. If you republish that image without the permission of the subject, you could be liable for prosecution under this offence, even if you did not intend to cause harm to the person in the image." So this reads to me that what has happened to the op is a criminal offense | |||
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"Does anyone know what to do in the case of your photos being taken and shared off the site without your knowledge or permission? Reported to admin.. But the profile has hidden themselves. Portrayed themselves as a couple but it's a male Unfortunately if you upload photos here publicly then they are open to be downloaded, copied shared etc, no law in place to prevent that, there is no expectation of privacy in public This isn't the first time you have argued that pictures posted online are public property... your fucking wrong ... for God sake go educate yourself on the topic before you come on worrying people
Not public property publicly accessible yes, nobody has the right to privacy in a public place the same applies to the internet, if someone decides to publicly upload an image then it's fair game to be copied or shared, you mean to tell me someone would be prosecuted for sending an image on a WhatsApp group ,then half of us would be in jail if that's the case ,total nonsense laws introduced by an out of touch minister for justice ,this is the same woman who wants to introduce a hate speech bill but doesn't even know the definition of hate speech, how can you introduce a law based on feelings not based on facts ? Also the same woman who said Dublin city centre is a safe place to be as she walks down Talbot street flanked by 15 guards, you couldn't make it up , prosecuting someone for sharing an intimate image is very difficult to do ,you need to have hard evidence and this cocos law is very weak at best ,if you upload an image publicly then you only have yourself to blame if someone copies it or shares it end of ,it's like going out on a busy roadside flashing your backside and expecting no one to look at you ,ridiculous "The only thing more worrying than someone with the point of view that “if someone decides to publicly upload an image then it's fair game” and “if you upload an image publicly then you only have yourself to blame”, is they fact that they may have access to your pictures. | |||
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"Does anyone know what to do in the case of your photos being taken and shared off the site without your knowledge or permission? Reported to admin.. But the profile has hidden themselves. Portrayed themselves as a couple but it's a male Unfortunately if you upload photos here publicly then they are open to be downloaded, copied shared etc, no law in place to prevent that, there is no expectation of privacy in public This isn't the first time you have argued that pictures posted online are public property... your fucking wrong ... for God sake go educate yourself on the topic before you come on worrying people
Not public property publicly accessible yes, nobody has the right to privacy in a public place the same applies to the internet, if someone decides to publicly upload an image then it's fair game to be copied or shared, you mean to tell me someone would be prosecuted for sending an image on a WhatsApp group ,then half of us would be in jail if that's the case ,total nonsense laws introduced by an out of touch minister for justice ,this is the same woman who wants to introduce a hate speech bill but doesn't even know the definition of hate speech, how can you introduce a law based on feelings not based on facts ? Also the same woman who said Dublin city centre is a safe place to be as she walks down Talbot street flanked by 15 guards, you couldn't make it up , prosecuting someone for sharing an intimate image is very difficult to do ,you need to have hard evidence and this cocos law is very weak at best ,if you upload an image publicly then you only have yourself to blame if someone copies it or shares it end of ,it's like going out on a busy roadside flashing your backside and expecting no one to look at you ,ridiculous "Ya useless law about yo be considered for an eu law ... your clueless or you don't give a fuck... either way the statement " nobody has the right to privacy in a public place the same applies to the internet, if someone decides to publicly upload an image then it's fair game to be copied or shared" Illustrates your view perfectly | |||
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"Not here for argument, but does the law not apply only to private intimate images rather than those in the public domain? So if photos are shared via private message with an individual and then distributed, that is illegal. But if they're already in the public domain it's not? Makes sense. Which is worrying. Not sure. I was reading through the CPS info on prosecuting it as a crime but it's difficult to find anything on this particular scenario. " If you put it in the public domain it can be viewed... it is still illegal to share it of treaten to if its intimate. I have pics on here ... people can view them. If they want to share them they need my consent. | |||
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"Not here for argument, but does the law not apply only to private intimate images rather than those in the public domain? So if photos are shared via private message with an individual and then distributed, that is illegal. But if they're already in the public domain it's not? Maybe the OP sent pics which would also mean that no permission to post or send them was was given the other person ..no ? No, he downloaded my public photos and shared them on social media to which a friend of mine alerted me to. If that's not a crime under coco's law then what is its intention to protect against? " It is | |||
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"Does anyone know what to do in the case of your photos being taken and shared off the site without your knowledge or permission? Reported to admin.. But the profile has hidden themselves. Portrayed themselves as a couple but it's a male Unfortunately if you upload photos here publicly then they are open to be downloaded, copied shared etc, no law in place to prevent that, there is no expectation of privacy in public This isn't the first time you have argued that pictures posted online are public property... your fucking wrong ... for God sake go educate yourself on the topic before you come on worrying people
Not public property publicly accessible yes, nobody has the right to privacy in a public place the same applies to the internet, if someone decides to publicly upload an image then it's fair game to be copied or shared, you mean to tell me someone would be prosecuted for sending an image on a WhatsApp group ,then half of us would be in jail if that's the case ,total nonsense laws introduced by an out of touch minister for justice ,this is the same woman who wants to introduce a hate speech bill but doesn't even know the definition of hate speech, how can you introduce a law based on feelings not based on facts ? Also the same woman who said Dublin city centre is a safe place to be as she walks down Talbot street flanked by 15 guards, you couldn't make it up , prosecuting someone for sharing an intimate image is very difficult to do ,you need to have hard evidence and this cocos law is very weak at best ,if you upload an image publicly then you only have yourself to blame if someone copies it or shares it end of ,it's like going out on a busy roadside flashing your backside and expecting no one to look at you ,ridiculous
Ya useless law about yo be considered for an eu law ... your clueless or you don't give a fuck... either way the statement
" nobody has the right to privacy in a public place the same applies to the internet, if someone decides to publicly upload an image then it's fair game to be copied or shared"
Illustrates your view perfectly "Well that is the law , anybody can filmed or photographed in public ,same applies to people who upload images publicly, they obviously want people to look at then , to copy the image to share it etc, now the same cannot be said for private images sent between individuals but how do you differentiate between a private and public image , it's very non specific | |||
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"The profile is linked to a business address in south africa.. So much for verifications on here.. And multiple verifications at that.. A kind fabber told me what to do.. If there are kik groups or other groups so I can give details. Admin don't want much to do with it. " Unfortunately these sites aren’t really safe to share naked pics that incl your face. It’s a common problem!! I just hope you don’t get any demands for payment seeing as you mentioned the profile is registered in Africa. Fabbers beware !!! | |||
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"The profile is linked to a business address in south africa.. So much for verifications on here.. And multiple verifications at that.. A kind fabber told me what to do.. If there are kik groups or other groups so I can give details." ____________________ Where/how would you share this profile's details? He was verified? By who? Real meet verified? Or phantom verifications by other similar operators? Are there flaws in the member registration process and verification process that could be amended to preclude the possibility of operators like this getting away with it? Like already said in our earlier post, we'll never post or share face pics but for those who want to, I can't imagine any possible way to prevent theft & sharing of them. Not being ALLOWED to take & share other people's pics won't stop someone who wants to do it... Burglary, assault, speeding, fraud, murder... there are thousands of things people aren't allowed to do but they still happen... | |||
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"It's beyond me why anyone would derail a thread as serious as this for an argument about being right. Three OP is distress and needs support. That's all that matters. Take it outside lads." The op was looking for info too
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"It's beyond me why anyone would derail a thread as serious as this for an argument about being right. Three OP is distress and needs support. That's all that matters. Take it outside lads. The op was looking for info too
Take your horse outside too "There's a song in there. | |||
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"Not here for argument, but does the law not apply only to private intimate images rather than those in the public domain? So if photos are shared via private message with an individual and then distributed, that is illegal. But if they're already in the public domain it's not? Maybe the OP sent pics which would also mean that no permission to post or send them was was given the other person ..no ? No, he downloaded my public photos and shared them on social media to which a friend of mine alerted me to. If that's not a crime under coco's law then what is its intention to protect against? " He took them without your permission in everyway , those photos were not on social media he should not have taken them without permission. | |||
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"Does anyone know what to do in the case of your photos being taken and shared off the site without your knowledge or permission? Reported to admin.. But the profile has hidden themselves. Portrayed themselves as a couple but it's a male " I have seen allot of this here! It’s a single old guys perving on here. It’s actually gross | |||
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"Not here for argument, but does the law not apply only to private intimate images rather than those in the public domain? So if photos are shared via private message with an individual and then distributed, that is illegal. But if they're already in the public domain it's not? Maybe the OP sent pics which would also mean that no permission to post or send them was was given the other person ..no ? No, he downloaded my public photos and shared them on social media to which a friend of mine alerted me to. If that's not a crime under coco's law then what is its intention to protect against? " That person has broken the law of the land. No if’s no but’s | |||
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"Does anyone know what to do in the case of your photos being taken and shared off the site without your knowledge or permission? Reported to admin.. But the profile has hidden themselves. Portrayed themselves as a couple but it's a male I have seen allot of this here! It’s a single old guys perving on here. It’s actually gross" I’d be interested in knowing where or how you have come to this conclusion!! | |||
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"Have you checked the terms and conditions of this site? No one is allowed to take photos and share, its called coco's law I'm just saying do you give up that right when you share your pictures on this site. I beg your pardon?? You think it's okay for perv's to come on here and share your photos without your permission externally? " What you can do is edit your pics with your fab name on your photo app it may stop your pics being used. | |||
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"Have you checked the terms and conditions of this site? No one is allowed to take photos and share, its called coco's law I'm just saying do you give up that right when you share your pictures on this site. I beg your pardon?? You think it's okay for perv's to come on here and share your photos without your permission externally? What you can do is edit your pics with your fab name on your photo app it may stop your pics being used." Doesn't make the slightest bit of difference. Every one of my pics has my fab name on it and it didn't stop people from taking them and using them as their own and attaching them to messages. They didn't even take the time to remove my name. Every pic posted on fab is automatically stamped with the site name and this shows when used elsewhere. | |||
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"Hate to break it to people, but Fabswingers is a social media platform, Identical to Facebook, Instagram or Twitter. If you willingly post a nude picture of yourself to Twitter, and people start sharing it, you will find it extremely difficult for any single judge on this planet to deem it a breach of privacy to share what you willingly posted on social media. Don't be foolish and assume different laws apply for Fab. They don't! It doesn't matter what bullshit blurb you copy/paste to the bottom of your profile. Be careful out there folks. " The same law governs all media ! You can't share intimate photos posted on Facebook either without consent | |||
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"Hate to break it to people, but Fabswingers is a social media platform, Identical to Facebook, Instagram or Twitter. If you willingly post a nude picture of yourself to Twitter, and people start sharing it, you will find it extremely difficult for any single judge on this planet to deem it a breach of privacy to share what you willingly posted on social media. Don't be foolish and assume different laws apply for Fab. They don't! It doesn't matter what bullshit blurb you copy/paste to the bottom of your profile. Be careful out there folks. The same law governs all media ! You can't share intimate photos posted on Facebook either without consent " I think the law is much more complicated than that. So if I post a dick pic to Twitter. Do people need my consent to retweet it? If I see 100 people retweeted it, can I get them all arrested as they never asked for consent? Hardly. I honestly don't see any difference to someone retweeting a nudes that I posted to Twitter, to someone copying my pics from here and sharing them. | |||
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"Hate to break it to people, but Fabswingers is a social media platform, Identical to Facebook, Instagram or Twitter. If you willingly post a nude picture of yourself to Twitter, and people start sharing it, you will find it extremely difficult for any single judge on this planet to deem it a breach of privacy to share what you willingly posted on social media. Don't be foolish and assume different laws apply for Fab. They don't! It doesn't matter what bullshit blurb you copy/paste to the bottom of your profile. Be careful out there folks. The same law governs all media ! You can't share intimate photos posted on Facebook either without consent I think the law is much more complicated than that. So if I post a dick pic to Twitter. Do people need my consent to retweet it? If I see 100 people retweeted it, can I get them all arrested as they never asked for consent? Hardly. I honestly don't see any difference to someone retweeting a nudes that I posted to Twitter, to someone copying my pics from here and sharing them." They do need your consent , furthermore they also need the consent of anyone they send it to before sending it ... and you can bring a complaint against all of them . I get that this isn't practical or even in the case of Twitter logical , however it is the law. So for more serious issues of intimate pic abuse its good to know i guess . | |||
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