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By *addiesgirl99 OP   TV/TS
over a year ago

kildare

2 men murdered in Sligo in homophobic fueled hate filled attack, decapitated and dismembered penis, thoughts Irish swingers? No one speaks out for us from your community why?

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By *og-ManMan
over a year ago

somewhere

Youre right in a way and I can understand where you're coming from.

The murder of Ashling Murphy was indeed treated differently to the murders of Aidan Moffitt and Michael Snee for some reason...not sure why to be honest

Is it because they're gay or could it be because online sites were mentioned and maybe people thought it could be on here

There's vigils being held in various locations tomorrow and hopefully they start to help inheeling some of the hurt and pain people are feeling.

May they rest in peace

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By *nowhowtotreatagirlMan
over a year ago

Limerick


"Youre right in a way and I can understand where you're coming from.

The murder of Ashling Murphy was indeed treated differently to the murders of Aidan Moffitt and Michael Snee for some reason...not sure why to be honest

Is it because they're gay or could it be because online sites were mentioned and maybe people thought it could be on here

There's vigils being held in various locations tomorrow and hopefully they start to help inheeling some of the hurt and pain people are feeling.

May they rest in peace "

Amen. May they both RIP

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By *1CorkCouple
over a year ago

Cork

Didn’t know those details. It’s just horrible, the motive, the randomness, the serial nature, those details you outlined. Terrible.

As for swingers speaking out, there’s no spokespersons / leaders or openness to the community (the way there is in say the LGBT community) that really lends itself to that. I don’t think there’s a need either given the universal revulsion.

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By *dfabMan
over a year ago

Dunboyne

Suspect in custody

Doesn't bring the victims back though

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By *dfabMan
over a year ago

Dunboyne

Just bumping this up further.

Any murder is outrageous but targeting people for their belief/lifestyle does seem to make it more focused.

Personally, I don't care who/what you are, nobody else has a right to take your life.

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By *asual777Man
over a year ago

i travel all over

You are absolutely right

This has not gotten anything like the same coverage on here as incidents of men’s violence against women .

I also note a horrible homophobic incident on Dame street too.

I think it’s because men’s violence against other men is seen as an entirely different animal

It is very easy in the same way as female victims are told to do more to protect themselves (which is victim blaming ) to suggest to men meeting other men online to protect themselves .

Again it’s the perpetrators’ behaviour which is the problem not the victim for wanting to meet others on a site.

If it’s going to take a generation to change men’s views on women through the way they’re brought up which will make their lives safer , the same process needs to take place to reduce male on male homophobic violence .

Clear conversations with kids emphasising that we are all the same . That we don’t make choices about who we are attracted to . That there is nothing strange about two men holding hands. That families and couples can be of different types.

I have never heard a more powerful take on this than the song same love :

"Man that's gay" Gets dropped on the daily

We've become so numb to what we're sayin'

Our culture founded from oppression

Yeah, we don't have acceptance for 'em

Call each other faggots behind the keys of a message board

A word routed in hate, yet our genre still ignores it

Gay is synonymous with the lesser

No law's gonna change us

We have to change us, whatever God you believe in

We come from the same one

Strip away the fear

Underneath it's all the same love

About time that we raised up

And I can't change

Even if I tried

Even if I wanted to

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By *ealitybitesMan
over a year ago

Belfast

I wasn't even aware of these murders until I saw an RIP comment on FB last night and didn't know the details until reading this thread.

The only news I hear is on the car radio and there was no mention of these horrible events.

On a previous thread I said I was angry following Aisling Murphy's murder and also at the killing of Aidan Mann in Downpatrick a week earlier in virtually identical circumstances.

I was also angry at the fact most people reading that thread had to then google Aidan Mann because they had no idea who he was due to the disparity in media reporting and someone making a conscious decision somewhere that one death is more important than another or that it suits a particular agenda.

The UK victim commissioner said last week she was conscious of a new report by the British government into violence against women and girls and how it simply acknowledged in a footnote that men and boys were also victims.

She accepted that there needed to be a much bigger discussion and efforts made to encourage men to report incidents and not feel ostracised or made to look weak by their peers or the authorities.

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By *ack coughMan
over a year ago

sligo

To be honest slightly worrying here that in sligo in middle of it all someone was still advertising that was naked tied up and blind folded on bed come fuck me .as regards speaking up ...I would be more concerned that Islamic leaders should speak up and condemn these actions .....

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By *ilthyNightsCouple
over a year ago

East / North, Cork


"2 men murdered in Sligo in homophobic fueled hate filled attack, decapitated and dismembered penis, thoughts Irish swingers? No one speaks out for us from your community why?

"

I am shocked that this isn't in the media more. Its just horrible. I'd lay money the murderer was dealing with his own homosexual urges and was in a fit of hatred that got misdirected outwards at these men rather than deal with the conflict between what he was taught about homosexuality in his religion and culture, and his own urges. Thats often the case anyway. Its no excuse though. Others manage to break away without murdering anyone. Disgusting

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By *etergemmaCouple
over a year ago

South Dublin Area


"2 men murdered in Sligo in homophobic fueled hate filled attack, decapitated and dismembered penis, thoughts Irish swingers? No one speaks out for us from your community why?

I am shocked that this isn't in the media more. Its just horrible. I'd lay money the murderer was dealing with his own homosexual urges and was in a fit of hatred that got misdirected outwards at these men rather than deal with the conflict between what he was taught about homosexuality in his religion and culture, and his own urges. Thats often the case anyway. Its no excuse though. Others manage to break away without murdering anyone. Disgusting"

Nail on the head

It's shocking though the amount of coverage its not getting.

Theres still plenty of memorials out there for poor Aisling but this was most definitely a far worse crime. The level of planning that went into it.

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By *208numeWoman
over a year ago

Navan

Had to look this up and I was absolutely shocked. The relative silence from the media here is deafening, but I suspect that the fact that there may be a religious/cultural belief dimension here may be a contributor. In my opinion, anything relating religion/culture with sex equals relative societal silence. Ireland has made great progress but it is very sad that the expression of sexuality remains a very risky business as not all countries/cultures are as tolerant of non heterosexual relationships. Those men did not deserve to die.

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By *ealitybitesMan
over a year ago

Belfast

You only have to look at a Netflix series called The family to see how religion can influence politics.

US congressmen using their "access to kings" to spread their beliefs since the 1950s and then washing their hands of the consequences especially in regard to same sex relationships in the likes of Uganda and Romania.

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By *ed just RedWoman
over a year ago

Dublin City

I think that the reason peoples outrage is muted is explainable in its timing. The first murder was presented a personal attack, easily written off an in-family feud, middle aged single man etc. there have been a few such deaths recently. When I saw of the 2nd murder I was very suspicious and shock hit when there were warnings about meeting online etc. I have seen a lot or fear and anger online about these two murders and the shockwaves through the LGBTQ+ community and it’s spreading. It’s absolutely terrifying that such hate is still prevalent. I havnt seen anything to suggest otherwise. I think the wider fear of being exposed as not-straight is to blame for closeted men taking such risks. It’s absolutely awful.

There are vigils and I would be accompanying friends but I’m laid up.


".as regards speaking up ...I would be more concerned that Islamic leaders should speak up and condemn these actions ....."

What has Islam got to do with it? Because the accused is Islamic? Seriously?? What religion was the guy who killed Aisling Murphy? Was that a religiously motivated murder? Did you actually read that before you wrote it??

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By *olves at bayCouple
over a year ago

cork

I think there a few aspects to consider. On one hand straight people are asked to be an ally. But in the other, if we voice an opinion, sometimes we are told we don't have the right to one on the subject. Both sides of that I understand completely. But it leaves us with a conundrum. We don't know how to react..

As for Irish media. Ireland has been trying to claw itself out of an archaic image to a more inclusive one, for the last 30 years. As wrong as it is, to a degree I don't think they want our new image tarnished.

All I know for certain is. Love is love.

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By *al2001Man
over a year ago

kildare

The suspect says he attacked more people too but they haven't come forward.

That says a lot and is sad in itself.

Still closeted.

Rip.

Very sad

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By *al2001Man
over a year ago

kildare


"2 men murdered in Sligo in homophobic fueled hate filled attack, decapitated and dismembered penis, thoughts Irish swingers? No one speaks out for us from your community why?

I am shocked that this isn't in the media more. Its just horrible. I'd lay money the murderer was dealing with his own homosexual urges and was in a fit of hatred that got misdirected outwards at these men rather than deal with the conflict between what he was taught about homosexuality in his religion and culture, and his own urges. Thats often the case anyway. Its no excuse though. Others manage to break away without murdering anyone. Disgusting"

I would lay my money on just religion and culture being behind it.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Vigils are listed all over the country via LGBTQ social media accounts. Horrible what happened and laughable that racist piece of shit are using it to further their agenda all over social media when the same accounts were calling people of the LGBTQ community groomers and worse during the last few weeks.

There has been a marked increase in violence and harassment towards members of the community in the last few months including two assaults which resulted in hospital stays for some. It's very worrying especially for friends and family of ours.

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By *j47Man
over a year ago

limerick

Just reading this thread gives me the feeling that because they were men meeting off an internet site for presumed homophobic reasons the general public seem to accept that thats u get

In the case of Ashlinn she was a lone woman out on a run attacked randomly and the public outcry to the inital reports fed into a news frenzy which the media were glad to feed

For these two unfournate men the inital public reaction didnt preputate the required frenzy for news outlets to feed yes initally it was shocking and with the scant information it was barbacic but the public didnt show the appitite for the details and so the news outlets interest waned

It would seem to me the public didnt want the details of these mens backrounds, life stories and ambitions in life where as in Ashlinn case this was sought out. Is it the case of the old shame seeping through that we are not as open as we like to think towards the LGBT coumunity as we like to think we are id say yes but then if it was two women would it have being as muted maybe not

I feel for these mens familys and the hurt they will endure through the loss of their loved ones and my toughts go out to them may these two men rest in peace and may the loss of their lives help to open up this country to the reality that is life for people of all races, creeds and excentricities.

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By *etergemmaCouple
over a year ago

South Dublin Area


"Just reading this thread gives me the feeling that because they were men meeting off an internet site for presumed homophobic reasons the general public seem to accept that thats u get

In the case of Ashlinn she was a lone woman out on a run attacked randomly and the public outcry to the inital reports fed into a news frenzy which the media were glad to feed

For these two unfournate men the inital public reaction didnt preputate the required frenzy for news outlets to feed yes initally it was shocking and with the scant information it was barbacic but the public didnt show the appitite for the details and so the news outlets interest waned

It would seem to me the public didnt want the details of these mens backrounds, life stories and ambitions in life where as in Ashlinn case this was sought out. Is it the case of the old shame seeping through that we are not as open as we like to think towards the LGBT coumunity as we like to think we are id say yes but then if it was two women would it have being as muted maybe not

I feel for these mens familys and the hurt they will endure through the loss of their loved ones and my toughts go out to them may these two men rest in peace and may the loss of their lives help to open up this country to the reality that is life for people of all races, creeds and excentricities.

"

I couldn't believe that they didn't reference the Mens sexuality in the report the other night.

It went something like "These men had things in

Common..." trivial stuff about them but nothing about the fact they were gay.

Like it was some shame or some nonsense

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By *asual777Man
over a year ago

i travel all over


"Just reading this thread gives me the feeling that because they were men meeting off an internet site for presumed homophobic reasons the general public seem to accept that thats u get

In the case of Ashlinn she was a lone woman out on a run attacked randomly and the public outcry to the inital reports fed into a news frenzy which the media were glad to feed

For these two unfournate men the inital public reaction didnt preputate the required frenzy for news outlets to feed yes initally it was shocking and with the scant information it was barbacic but the public didnt show the appitite for the details and so the news outlets interest waned

It would seem to me the public didnt want the details of these mens backrounds, life stories and ambitions in life where as in Ashlinn case this was sought out. Is it the case of the old shame seeping through that we are not as open as we like to think towards the LGBT coumunity as we like to think we are id say yes but then if it was two women would it have being as muted maybe not

I feel for these mens familys and the hurt they will endure through the loss of their loved ones and my toughts go out to them may these two men rest in peace and may the loss of their lives help to open up this country to the reality that is life for people of all races, creeds and excentricities.

"

There are sometimes multiple tragedies in this type of situation

The loss itself

The reactions among family members if the person wasn’t out . Did they really know the person at all etc

And the awful details of the fatal encounter if there isn’t a guilty plea immediately etc

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By *asual777Man
over a year ago

i travel all over

[Removed by poster at 15/04/22 08:23:18]

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By *asual777Man
over a year ago

i travel all over


"Just reading this thread gives me the feeling that because they were men meeting off an internet site for presumed homophobic reasons the general public seem to accept that thats u get

In the case of Ashlinn she was a lone woman out on a run attacked randomly and the public outcry to the inital reports fed into a news frenzy which the media were glad to feed

For these two unfournate men the inital public reaction didnt preputate the required frenzy for news outlets to feed yes initally it was shocking and with the scant information it was barbacic but the public didnt show the appitite for the details and so the news outlets interest waned

It would seem to me the public didnt want the details of these mens backrounds, life stories and ambitions in life where as in Ashlinn case this was sought out. Is it the case of the old shame seeping through that we are not as open as we like to think towards the LGBT coumunity as we like to think we are id say yes but then if it was two women would it have being as muted maybe not

I feel for these mens familys and the hurt they will endure through the loss of their loved ones and my toughts go out to them may these two men rest in peace and may the loss of their lives help to open up this country to the reality that is life for people of all races, creeds and excentricities.

I couldn't believe that they didn't reference the Mens sexuality in the report the other night.

It went something like "These men had things in

Common..." trivial stuff about them but nothing about the fact they were gay.

Like it was some shame or some nonsense "

I think it’s difficult sometimes if the people weren’t out to out them on the news

But not doing so is problematic for multiple reasons

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By *etergemmaCouple
over a year ago

South Dublin Area


"Just reading this thread gives me the feeling that because they were men meeting off an internet site for presumed homophobic reasons the general public seem to accept that thats u get

In the case of Ashlinn she was a lone woman out on a run attacked randomly and the public outcry to the inital reports fed into a news frenzy which the media were glad to feed

For these two unfournate men the inital public reaction didnt preputate the required frenzy for news outlets to feed yes initally it was shocking and with the scant information it was barbacic but the public didnt show the appitite for the details and so the news outlets interest waned

It would seem to me the public didnt want the details of these mens backrounds, life stories and ambitions in life where as in Ashlinn case this was sought out. Is it the case of the old shame seeping through that we are not as open as we like to think towards the LGBT coumunity as we like to think we are id say yes but then if it was two women would it have being as muted maybe not

I feel for these mens familys and the hurt they will endure through the loss of their loved ones and my toughts go out to them may these two men rest in peace and may the loss of their lives help to open up this country to the reality that is life for people of all races, creeds and excentricities.

I couldn't believe that they didn't reference the Mens sexuality in the report the other night.

It went something like "These men had things in

Common..." trivial stuff about them but nothing about the fact they were gay.

Like it was some shame or some nonsense

I think it’s difficult sometimes if the people weren’t out to out them on the news

But not doing so is problematic for multiple reasons"

You could be right, maybe they weren't out but I would be surprised at this stage.

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By *al2001Man
over a year ago

kildare

I don't think at least 1 of the victims was out.

Which would affect the reporting.

He really sounded like he was a good person with way he helped older neighbours

A real tragedy

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By *ustBoWoman
over a year ago

Somewhere in Co. Down

I didn't know about this until I read this thread.It hasn't been mentioned on any of the news I heard the last few days up here but I usually only hear the news when I am driving.

It's an horrific crime and the gender or sexuality of the victims should not be a factor in coverage,but it looks like it still is even in this day and age. It's just so sad .

I'm glad there are vigils being held in memory of this two men who needlessly lost their lives so that others can show their support for them. My thoughts go out to their family and friends who are having to deal with losing their loved ones.

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By *ichael McCarthyMan
over a year ago

Lucan

As regards news coverage, it was the main story on most RTÉ news bulletins due a couple of days with Caitríona Perry presenting live from Sligo on the main evening news.

As regards speaking out, all normal people would condemn these murders but the majority of people don't have a voice. Anyone I've seen interviewed was horrified and disgusted, as you would expect.

As regards vigils and the like, they're great for showing support to families and communities but they make no difference in reality. People who carry out voilent murders are highly unlikely to be dissuaded from murdering someone for fear of a vigil taking place.

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By *ustBoWoman
over a year ago

Somewhere in Co. Down


"As regards news coverage, it was the main story on most RTÉ news bulletins due a couple of days with Caitríona Perry presenting live from Sligo on the main evening news.

As regards speaking out, all normal people would condemn these murders but the majority of people don't have a voice. Anyone I've seen interviewed was horrified and disgusted, as you would expect.

As regards vigils and the like, they're great for showing support to families and communities but they make no difference in reality. People who carry out voilent murders are highly unlikely to be dissuaded from murdering someone for fear of a vigil taking place. "

I always thought vigils were just as you describe to show support for the families and friends and to remember the person. I never thought they would dissuade anyone from murdering anyone. The people who do these crimes

have zero empathy towards others.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"

The murder of Ashling Murphy was indeed treated differently to the murders of Aidan Moffitt and Michael Snee for some reason...not sure why to be honest "

How? Both have caused uproar, public vigils, crowds gathering and media coverage. Both horrific murders by emigrants too - I’d say they are very similar. If there is more caution it may be because the media is trying to be more careful so as not to give the defendant a ‘tried by the media case’

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

2 horrific murders, 1 confirmed assault and possibly more victims that haven't yet come forward. Yet we don't have the same public outpouring of shock and grief as we had for the recent murder of Aisling Murphy.... 2022 we still have so much more to do in terms of diversity and inclusion...

And bring in the hate crime law ASAP..

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By *ichael McCarthyMan
over a year ago

Lucan


"2 horrific murders, 1 confirmed assault and possibly more victims that haven't yet come forward. Yet we don't have the same public outpouring of shock and grief as we had for the recent murder of Aisling Murphy.... 2022 we still have so much more to do in terms of diversity and inclusion...

And bring in the hate crime law ASAP..

"

Youth, gender and the perception of randomness play a huge part in the difference although there's clearly a lot of shock around these cases as well.

As for the hate law, yes by all means. It wouldn't have any impact on crimes like this though as the perpetrator has already broken the most serious laws we have on the statute books.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"2 men murdered in Sligo in homophobic fueled hate filled attack, decapitated and dismembered penis, thoughts Irish swingers? No one speaks out for us from your community why?

"

The details are only coming out in bits and pieces. Im horrified, sickened and terrified that this sort of twisted evil could happen.

Im in grief for the victims and for their loved ones, and communities.

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By *lamingo57Woman
over a year ago

Carrick

It's horrific. I'm having a hard time processing it.

I hope everyone is ok and that people stay safe at vigils over the weekend.

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By *olves at bayCouple
over a year ago

cork

Hmmm..couple posts using term "normal people". Like our brothers and sisters are other. Sorry but it does not ring right in my ears. Rant over

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By *oserMan
over a year ago

where the wild roses grow


"Hmmm..couple posts using term "normal people". Like our brothers and sisters are other. Sorry but it does not ring right in my ears. Rant over"

Hmmmm, trolling much?

The term normal people was not used in the tone that you are implying, read it again

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By *B 4099Man
over a year ago

North West, Outer Letterkenny area

There has been a lot of coverage in the Northwest. But that is to be expected. But hearing of it elsewhere I had to search for it. Prime example trending on Twitter only 3rd in Ireland. Behind the football scores and Derry girls.

The media heavily implied that the first murder was a hate crime , i.e homophobic attack, without saying it was. After the second murder it was much the same. A lot of people in Sligo knew the more grizzly details of the murders but would not mention them at the bequest of Garda , as it may affect the investigation.

Unfortunately these two men lost their lives in the most barbaric way. And I have the utmost sympathy for them and their families. I also understand the fear amongst the people from Sligo LGBT+ Community as this was specifically targeted at 3 men for their sexual orientation. As was the attack in Dublin.

Many people don't speak about it as when they mention the religious element in motivation for the attacks/murders ,they get called racist (though again this was heavily implied after his arrest). If they say that shouldn't be a factor they are homophobic. People will always take umbrage to something. But let's not lose sight of what happened. Two men lost their lives and another two have had their lives changed forever. The ripple effect of this on their families and friends and the Sligo community and LGBTQ community all over Ireland will be felt for years.

There is no explanation for this or solace. Premeditated murder only makes sense to one person, the perpitrator. The need for safety is definitely more and more apparent as we do not live in the 'old Ireland' as many who grew up in the pre lock you doors years will know, Ireland has changed drastically with the crime at every level from all areas rising and becoming worse. But these poor men could not have known what was to happen. People will look for answers but there are none. Absolutely solidarity and allegiance with all who suffer from violence and abuse. As for vigil's,for me personally they mean little but showing support, that's just me. I would be more inclined to ask if someone was ok or needed help going forward if I encountered anyone that seemed in trouble . I believe the days of turning a blind eye must go in all walks of life. This can not happen again to anyone.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Full list of vigils on the LGBT Ireland social media accounts (Facebook, Twitter and Instagram)

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"There has been a lot of coverage in the Northwest. But that is to be expected. But hearing of it elsewhere I had to search for it. Prime example trending on Twitter only 3rd in Ireland. Behind the football scores and Derry girls.

The media heavily implied that the first murder was a hate crime , i.e homophobic attack, without saying it was. After the second murder it was much the same. A lot of people in Sligo knew the more grizzly details of the murders but would not mention them at the bequest of Garda , as it may affect the investigation.

Unfortunately these two men lost their lives in the most barbaric way. And I have the utmost sympathy for them and their families. I also understand the fear amongst the people from Sligo LGBT+ Community as this was specifically targeted at 3 men for their sexual orientation. As was the attack in Dublin.

Many people don't speak about it as when they mention the religious element in motivation for the attacks/murders ,they get called racist (though again this was heavily implied after his arrest). If they say that shouldn't be a factor they are homophobic. People will always take umbrage to something. But let's not lose sight of what happened. Two men lost their lives and another two have had their lives changed forever. The ripple effect of this on their families and friends and the Sligo community and LGBTQ community all over Ireland will be felt for years.

There is no explanation for this or solace. Premeditated murder only makes sense to one person, the perpitrator. The need for safety is definitely more and more apparent as we do not live in the 'old Ireland' as many who grew up in the pre lock you doors years will know, Ireland has changed drastically with the crime at every level from all areas rising and becoming worse. But these poor men could not have known what was to happen. People will look for answers but there are none. Absolutely solidarity and allegiance with all who suffer from violence and abuse. As for vigil's,for me personally they mean little but showing support, that's just me. I would be more inclined to ask if someone was ok or needed help going forward if I encountered anyone that seemed in trouble . I believe the days of turning a blind eye must go in all walks of life. This can not happen again to anyone. "

Well said!!!

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