FabSwingers.com forum: Trans “ women “

By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

I believe a man who “identifies“ as a woman is not a woman.

I don’t think it is discriminatory to express that point of view and don’t think anyone should be vilified or censored for articulating it.

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By *affa31Woman
over a year ago

Galway

What you seem to not understand is that nobody cares what you think about the subject.

Trans women are women.

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By *urFabFun21Couple
over a year ago

Somewhere

"I believe a man who “identifies“ as a woman is not a woman.

I don’t think it is discriminatory to express that point of view and don’t think anyone should be vilified or censored for articulating it.

Your OP and your thread title are very different.

Which one do you mean specifically?

Taking it at face value, people can do what they want once they're happy. They dont need your approval. Just move along if something offends you

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Cool story dude. Needs some dragons or shit though

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By *ouble Trouble 1000Couple
over a year ago

ireland

Second thread today on same subject ,same profile no doubt .Someone with a grievance no doubt!

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"I believe a man who “identifies“ as a woman is not a woman.

I don’t think it is discriminatory to express that point of view and don’t think anyone should be vilified or censored for articulating it.

Your OP and your thread title are very different.

Which one do you mean specifically?

Taking it at face value, people can do what they want once they're happy. They dont need your approval. Just move along if something offends you "

Nobody needs my approval and I am not offended by trans people and I respect everyone.

My opinion is that a trans woman is not a woman.

Just because someone “identifies” as something doesn’t make it a fact.

I respect your opinion but I think I should be entitled to mine and have that respected also.

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By *og-ManMan
over a year ago

somewhere

"I believe a man who “identifies“ as a woman is not a woman.

I don’t think it is discriminatory to express that point of view and don’t think anyone should be vilified or censored for articulating it.

Your OP and your thread title are very different.

Which one do you mean specifically?

Taking it at face value, people can do what they want once they're happy. They dont need your approval. Just move along if something offends you

Nobody needs my approval and I am not offended by trans people and I respect everyone.

My opinion is that a trans woman is not a woman.

Just because someone “identifies” as something doesn’t make it a fact.

I respect your opinion but I think I should be entitled to mine and have that respected also."

Has anyone said you're not entitled to that opinion....

Your opinion is a load of bollox therefore I don't have to respect it

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By *ilthyNightsCouple
over a year ago

East / North, Cork

"I believe a man who “identifies“ as a woman is not a woman.

I don’t think it is discriminatory to express that point of view and don’t think anyone should be vilified or censored for articulating it.

Nobody is forcing you to address them as women... its a bit of an asshole move to deliberately disregard how they see themselves and how they would choose to be addressed, but if you're happy behaving in that way then nobody can stop you. I know who would come out looking worse though. Hint: that would be you.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Why feed the troll, people?

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By *ontbesillywrapyourwillyMan
over a year ago

Tipperary

"Why feed the troll, people? "
that's not a troll.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Why feed the troll, people? that's not a troll. "

Oh the irony

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By *ontbesillywrapyourwillyMan
over a year ago

Tipperary

"Why feed the troll, people? that's not a troll.

Oh the irony"
no irony. just because you don't like what he said. it's a common theme on Fab.

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By *iscuits8Man
over a year ago

Meath / Dublin / Birmingham

In the 37 minutes since this thread was posted I'd absolutely love to see the amount of block lists the OP is on...

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By *ontbesillywrapyourwillyMan
over a year ago

Tipperary

"In the 37 minutes since this thread was posted I'd absolutely love to see the amount of block lists the OP is on..."
lol probably loads since he voiced his true opinion. that's frowned upon on fab.

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By *urFabFun21Couple
over a year ago

Somewhere

"In the 37 minutes since this thread was posted I'd absolutely love to see the amount of block lists the OP is on..."

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By *ealitybitesMan
over a year ago

Belfast

"In the 37 minutes since this thread was posted I'd absolutely love to see the amount of block lists the OP is on...lol probably loads since he voiced his true opinion. that's frowned upon on fab. "

I wonder how many times he will reiterate it over the next 2 years?

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By *ontbesillywrapyourwillyMan
over a year ago

Tipperary

"In the 37 minutes since this thread was posted I'd absolutely love to see the amount of block lists the OP is on...lol probably loads since he voiced his true opinion. that's frowned upon on fab.

I wonder how many times he will reiterate it over the next 2 years?"
doesn't make a blind bit of difference. he spoke his made, gave his opinion which he's intitled to do.

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By *ontbesillywrapyourwillyMan
over a year ago

Tipperary

"In the 37 minutes since this thread was posted I'd absolutely love to see the amount of block lists the OP is on...lol probably loads since he voiced his true opinion. that's frowned upon on fab.

I wonder how many times he will reiterate it over the next 2 years?doesn't make a blind bit of difference. he spoke his made, gave his opinion which he's intitled to do. "
mind

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By *iscuits8Man
over a year ago

Meath / Dublin / Birmingham

"In the 37 minutes since this thread was posted I'd absolutely love to see the amount of block lists the OP is on...lol probably loads since he voiced his true opinion. that's frowned upon on fab. "

Nah... they're not blocking him "since he voiced his true opinion", they're blocking him because they think he has a shite opinion

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By *ontbesillywrapyourwillyMan
over a year ago

Tipperary

"In the 37 minutes since this thread was posted I'd absolutely love to see the amount of block lists the OP is on...lol probably loads since he voiced his true opinion. that's frowned upon on fab.

Nah... they're not blocking him "since he voiced his true opinion", they're blocking him because they think he has a shite opinion

"
no, they're blocking him because it's not "the norm fab opinion". have seen it numerous times in the past. would I block a person that differed an opinion to me? absolutely not. I'd be very petty if I did.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I believe a man who “identifies“ as a woman is not a woman.

I don’t think it is discriminatory to express that point of view and don’t think anyone should be vilified or censored for articulating it.

You are of course entitled to your opinion. And to articulating it. We all are.

Trans is actually a spectrum of gender identification. I am a genderqueer drag queen. While I have no interest or intention to change my physical characteristics everyone who has met me has said theirs no male left at least in mannerisms and psychology. But people use the female pronoun when talking to me, without me asking them to. It's called respect. It's called social behaviour. Gender is as much social as it's biology.

I don't object to your opinions but I suspect you've had little or no experience of being around trans women. Maybe your opinions would change. Maybe you would voice your opinion and adhere to the micro aggressions of him/mate etc. Then I'd have to question your identification. Calling yourself a man is one thing behaving like one quite another.

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By *inkywife1981Couple
over a year ago

A town near you

At the end of the day people can identify anyway they want and if it ain't causing harm to anyone let them at it if it makes them happy.

However I dont think anyone should get to cut up if others don't address them or recognise them as the gender they want to be recognised, I mean do Caitlen Jenners kids call her mom or dad now and if they say dad by mistake does she get bitchy about it?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Who is censoring you though OP?

As for vilified unfortunately on a public forum people will disagree with each other.

Passionately when it's something as emotionally loaded as this.

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By *inkywife1981Couple
over a year ago

A town near you

I would add that I've often had to do a double take when looking at the hot photos section when I've seen TV/TS listed below a picture of a girl. As such regardless of how that person may wish to be addressed I would rightly or wrong ly address them as a girl they are that convincing.

But unfortunately there will be some people that despite their best attempts will always look like a man and hence will be addressed/misgendered as a man.

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By *willfindyouWoman
over a year ago

Not looking to meet new peeps.

"Why feed the troll, people? "

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"I believe a man who “identifies“ as a woman is not a woman.

I don’t think it is discriminatory to express that point of view and don’t think anyone should be vilified or censored for articulating it.

You are of course entitled to your opinion. And to articulating it. We all are.

Thank you for your response which I appreciate.

I would certainly only use the appropriate female pronoun addressing you or any other trans person out of respect.

I am not a troll and am not trying to provoke or antagonise you or anyone else.

I agree the issue may be that I cannot accept or understand that a man who identifies as a woman is a woman regardless of mannerisms or psychology.

I realise it must be very difficult to be a man and want to be a woman but I think men who identify as women are separate to women who are women.

I think once a trans woman no longer has a penis they are certainly more like a female but not the same as a woman who was born a woman and is a woman

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I believe a man who “identifies“ as a woman is not a woman.

I don’t think it is discriminatory to express that point of view and don’t think anyone should be vilified or censored for articulating it.

You are of course entitled to your opinion. And to articulating it. We all are.

Thank you for your response which I appreciate.

I would certainly only use the appropriate female pronoun addressing you or any other trans person out of respect.

I am not a troll and am not trying to provoke or antagonise you or anyone else.

I agree the issue may be that I cannot accept or understand that a man who identifies as a woman is a woman regardless of mannerisms or psychology.

I realise it must be very difficult to be a man and want to be a woman but I think men who identify as women are separate to women who are women.

I think once a trans woman no longer has a penis they are certainly more like a female but not the same as a woman who was born a woman and is a woman

Trans women are not arguing for biological parity, that's not what is happening. The reason your opinion was considered inflammatory is because the issue isn't biological gender it's social gender. Essentially this means physical, psychological and economic safety and these only come with recognition both in law and from society.

I appreciate your more considered post. Everyone should be able to voice their opinion.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I believe a man who “identifies“ as a woman is not a woman.

I don’t think it is discriminatory to express that point of view and don’t think anyone should be vilified or censored for articulating it.

You are of course entitled to your opinion. And to articulating it. We all are.

VERY well said

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I believe a man who “identifies“ as a woman is not a woman.

I don’t think it is discriminatory to express that point of view and don’t think anyone should be vilified or censored for articulating it.

Your OP and your thread title are very different.

Which one do you mean specifically?

Taking it at face value, people can do what they want once they're happy. They dont need your approval. Just move along if something offends you

Nobody needs my approval and I am not offended by trans people and I respect everyone.

My opinion is that a trans woman is not a woman.

Just because someone “identifies” as something doesn’t make it a fact.

I respect your opinion but I think I should be entitled to mine and have that respected also.

Has anyone said you're not entitled to that opinion....

Your opinion is a load of bollox therefore I don't have to respect it "

And I totally agree with this

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By *3nsesMan
over a year ago

Dublin

"In the 37 minutes since this thread was posted I'd absolutely love to see the amount of block lists the OP is on...lol probably loads since he voiced his true opinion. that's frowned upon on fab.

Nah... they're not blocking him "since he voiced his true opinion", they're blocking him because they think he has a shite opinion

no, they're blocking him because it's not "the norm fab opinion". have seen it numerous times in the past. would I block a person that differed an opinion to me? absolutely not. I'd be very petty if I did. "

They are blocking him because they want to block him and they are perfectly entitled to do that.

Just like the OP is perfectly entitled to start this thread. You can't freedom to do something while trying to take away other people's freedoms to do something in return.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I believe a man who “identifies“ as a woman is not a woman.

I don’t think it is discriminatory to express that point of view and don’t think anyone should be vilified or censored for articulating it.

Your OP and your thread title are very different.

Which one do you mean specifically?

Taking it at face value, people can do what they want once they're happy. They dont need your approval. Just move along if something offends you

Nobody needs my approval and I am not offended by trans people and I respect everyone.

My opinion is that a trans woman is not a woman.

Just because someone “identifies” as something doesn’t make it a fact.

I respect your opinion but I think I should be entitled to mine and have that respected also."

Then why did you feel The need to start a thread stating your thoughts? Seems like you were just trying to spark a reaction.

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By *ontbesillywrapyourwillyMan
over a year ago

Tipperary

"In the 37 minutes since this thread was posted I'd absolutely love to see the amount of block lists the OP is on...lol probably loads since he voiced his true opinion. that's frowned upon on fab.

Nah... they're not blocking him "since he voiced his true opinion", they're blocking him because they think he has a shite opinion

They are blocking him because they want to block him and they are perfectly entitled to do that.

Just like the OP is perfectly entitled to start this thread. You can't freedom to do something while trying to take away other people's freedoms to do something in return. "
you can predict on fab in a heartbeat the threads that people will block from. that's my point.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"I believe a man who “identifies“ as a woman is not a woman.

I don’t think it is discriminatory to express that point of view and don’t think anyone should be vilified or censored for articulating it.

Your OP and your thread title are very different.

Which one do you mean specifically?

Taking it at face value, people can do what they want once they're happy. They dont need your approval. Just move along if something offends you

Nobody needs my approval and I am not offended by trans people and I respect everyone.

My opinion is that a trans woman is not a woman.

Just because someone “identifies” as something doesn’t make it a fact.

I respect your opinion but I think I should be entitled to mine and have that respected also.

Then why did you feel The need to start a thread stating your thoughts? Seems like you were just trying to spark a reaction."

There was a thread earlier on Trans by another OP which I tried to contribute to but it had closed.

I opened a thread to comment on an issue that has been in the media today with the announcement that from next year trans women will be eligible to enter the Rose of Tralee competition and it is an issue I have an opinion on.

I will not post again now or in the future on this issue.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

This is always a sensitive subject, so a fine line has to be tread. My thoughts on it (not intended to offend, merely my two cents) are thus:

While I respect the fact that biologically women are women and men are men, I also respect the fact that trans people are PEOPLE. Human beings just like the rest of us and just like the rest of us have emotions, thoughts, opinions, feelings and problems just like everyone else in the world. If a trans person asks me to address them by their preferred indentity/pronoun I will happily do so. It doesn’t affect what I believe or anything, it’s just common courtesy and politeness to a fellow person. We need move on from forming opinions on people based on what’s on the outside and more on the content of character and who we are as people.

Hope that didn’t upset anyone

please don’t hate me

I hate it when we fight!

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By *andyman.snrMan
over a year ago

leixlip

oh to live in a black and white world , one that has a single answer to every problem.

but I'm not 12

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By *oserMan
over a year ago

where the wild roses grow

"I believe a man who “identifies“ as a woman is not a woman.

I don’t think it is discriminatory to express that point of view and don’t think anyone should be vilified or censored for articulating it.

Your OP and your thread title are very different.

Which one do you mean specifically?

Taking it at face value, people can do what they want once they're happy. They dont need your approval. Just move along if something offends you

Nobody needs my approval and I am not offended by trans people and I respect everyone.

My opinion is that a trans woman is not a woman.

Just because someone “identifies” as something doesn’t make it a fact.

I respect your opinion but I think I should be entitled to mine and have that respected also.

Then why did you feel The need to start a thread stating your thoughts? Seems like you were just trying to spark a reaction.

There was a thread earlier on Trans by another OP which I tried to contribute to but it had closed.

I will not post again now or in the future on this issue.

Your opening post was a bit inflammatory, your follow up posts not so much. Its a shame you didn't open with a query re the Rose of TraLee decision. It may have saved you drama from some opinions formed based on the opening post.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"What you seem to not understand is that nobody cares what you think about the subject.

Trans women are women. "
this

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By *ondalingerMan
over a year ago

City center

Newsflash: A forum is about sparking a reaction. Its about getting different opinions and views. Now, who the hell do people think they are to bash another persons opinion. Give your point. Disagree with his. All fine. Wolfpacks in this forum. Only yesterday i read a thread, a person commented, and name dropped 3 people whos view she agreed with. Not quoted, mentioned them by name. Ass kissing of the highest order. Would love to name them, but i quite enjoy some of the threads on here and don't wanna be banned again. Whats wrong with politely disagreeing with someones views. More often than not, a lady will give an ott reaction to someones opinion and has a queue of men agreeing with her. News flash again, they dont agree with you half the time. Access inside your knickers via agreeing with you. Stop with the bashing and be a lil respectful of everyones opinion and grow the fuck up.

For what my opinion is worth, i disagree completely with the op. Let people be, if they want, or feel like they identify as an octopus, so bloody what.

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By *ontbesillywrapyourwillyMan
over a year ago

Tipperary

"Newsflash: A forum is about sparking a reaction. Its about getting different opinions and views. Now, who the hell do people think they are to bash another persons opinion. Give your point. Disagree with his. All fine. Wolfpacks in this forum. Only yesterday i read a thread, a person commented, and name dropped 3 people whos view she agreed with. Not quoted, mentioned them by name. Ass kissing of the highest order. Would love to name them, but i quite enjoy some of the threads on here and don't wanna be banned again. Whats wrong with politely disagreeing with someones views. More often than not, a lady will give an ott reaction to someones opinion and has a queue of men agreeing with her. News flash again, they dont agree with you half the time. Access inside your knickers via agreeing with you. Stop with the bashing and be a lil respectful of everyones opinion and grow the fuck up.

For what my opinion is worth, i disagree completely with the op. Let people be, if they want, or feel like they identify as an octopus, so bloody what. "
spot on, your opening paragraph. that's the way fab always is.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Why feed the troll, people? that's not a troll. "
hey! Maybe he identifies as a troll!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

For what my opinion is worth, i disagree completely with the op. Let people be, if they want, or feel like they identify as an octopus, so bloody what. "

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I believe a man who “identifies“ as a woman is not a woman.

I don’t think it is discriminatory to express that point of view and don’t think anyone should be vilified or censored for articulating it.

Your OP and your thread title are very different.

Which one do you mean specifically?

Taking it at face value, people can do what they want once they're happy. They dont need your approval. Just move along if something offends you

Nobody needs my approval and I am not offended by trans people and I respect everyone.

My opinion is that a trans woman is not a woman.

Just because someone “identifies” as something doesn’t make it a fact.

I respect your opinion but I think I should be entitled to mine and have that respected also."
maybe he's pissed off at the rose of Tralee.. they're now even allowing married women

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I believe a man who “identifies“ as a woman is not a woman.

I don’t think it is discriminatory to express that point of view and don’t think anyone should be vilified or censored for articulating it.

You are merely the product of the patriarchal society we live in.

However you can break free from this way of thinking, but you must have genuine empathy for the other person and genuinely try and put yourself into their shoes and how they might feel.

I would advise you to remove your ego and the importance what you think is "right" and be open and ready for your views to change.

Listen to trans voices and try to learn about them and their challanges. Look up trans activists or read a book on gender.

Trans people want equality.

If you truly believe you treat others as equals then you should at least empathise with others and try to learn about them and from them.

All the best,

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I believe a man who “identifies“ as a woman is not a woman.

I don’t think it is discriminatory to express that point of view and don’t think anyone should be vilified or censored for articulating it.

You are merely the product of the patriarchal society we live in.

However you can break free from this way of thinking, but you must have genuine empathy for the other person and genuinely try and put yourself into their shoes and how they might feel.

I would advise you to remove your ego and the importance what you think is "right" and be open and ready for your views to change.

Listen to trans voices and try to learn about them and their challanges. Look up trans activists or read a book on gender.

Trans people want equality.

If you truly believe you treat others as equals then you should at least empathise with others and try to learn about them and from them.

All the best,

It's not that I don't think you lack any empathy for anyone, on the contrary.

I am going off my own experience where I thought I viewed everyone as equal until that was challenged.

I had to reevaluate a few things and now I approach things differently and with a bit more care and understanding.

All the best,

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By *ealitybitesMan
over a year ago

Belfast

For what my opinion is worth, i disagree completely with the op. Let people be, if they want, or feel like they identify as an octopus, so bloody what. "

Of course everyone should be allowed to express an opinion and argue that point if they feel strongly enough about it.

However to use the old " fab is like a pub" analogy, how do you start a conversation when standing in your local?

If you kick open the saloon door and run in shooting, some will duck for cover but others will start shooting back.

If you have a valid point that you want to debate, start the conversation in a non confrontational way and others might be more respectful of your opinion.

Flogging a dead horse doesn't work either so repeating the same old lines over and over ad infinitum just dilutes your argument and makes it look like you are arguing for the sake of it.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Whilst I respect your right to your opinion OP, this subject is incredibly emotive for me.

Identifying as a gender which differs to the body into which you are born is deeply complex. It's brutal. It's painful. It's heartbreaking. It's scary. It's never knowing whether the person you love will one day find it so unbearably difficult that they decide they can't go on. It's years of a sadness so deep you can barely comprehend. It's years of counselling and gradual social transitioning. It's years of fighting to be seen and heard. It's a constant battle to be treated with the most basic respect. It's years of being subjected to derision and whispers and gossip.

I am the mother of a trans son. I have held my child while they have wept uncontrollably because they cannot bear to be in the body they were born in. Every time my child is more than a few minutes late, I feel the unbearable dread that this is the day they have decided that they will actually walk out into traffic to take their own life. I have to fight my child's corner every single day. We are almost 5 years down the line. That's 5 years of counselling sessions twice a month because gender dysphoria has taken such a toll of my child's mental health. And this is only the beginning of an incredibly long journey.

My point is, I guess, that so often people think being trans is something a person just wakes up one morning and decides to be. That they just put on clothes of a different gender and Bob's your uncle. And this couldn't be further from the truth. It has such far reaching consequences that I've only skimmed the surface in this post.

All I would ask is that at the very least you take a moment to think what trans men and women have been through and are going through every single day and afford them the respect to live their lives without one more battle

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I'll also point out OP that your use of inverted commas is one of those battles I speak of. It's incredibly belittling. Having an opinion is one thing but trivialising another person's struggles in such a way isn't cool

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Whilst I respect your right to your opinion OP, this subject is incredibly emotive for me.

I cannot agree more with this. I have practically raised my little brother and seen the pain and heartache he has went through to become who he is on the inside. He's been abused, assaulted and suicidal because people think he's less then he is. Treated like the dirt on someone's shoe because he dares to be true to himself. He's a fine young man and I'm proud that's he's overcoming such attitudes like that of the op. If only more people could walk in their shoes for a day they'd have a bit more compassion for the struggles trans people face on a daily basis

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By *ildmovementMan
over a year ago

Dublin

OP thank you for the thread. It’s a subject worth talking about and educating people on. Until topics that we don’t understand are brought into public forums and peoples opinions heard we stay ignorant of issues people are dealing with and only form opinions from our internal influences.

I neither agree or disagree with your opinion as unlike two of the thread posts, I have no personal experience of trans. But reading this thread has opened my eyes to what the women or men are dealing with and with out this thread I would still be ignorant to the facts.

I wouldn’t let some of the posts here put you off from posting similar threads again as we all need a little education on these matters.

I would like to thank to two posters who actually have experience of this for posting on here. Very brave of you to add to the thread as it is such a sensitive subject and your honesty is admirable and very informative.

I hope you have a great festive season and enjoy Christmas.

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By *mokey and the bandit 1Couple
over a year ago

Dublin

This thread is the epitome of shitposting to get a reaction.

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By *he Queen of TartsWoman
Forum Mod
over a year ago

My Own Little World

And I think we are done.

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