Join us FREE, we're FREE to use
Web's largest swingers site since 2006.
Already registered?
Login here
Join us FREE, we're FREE to use
Web's largest swingers site since 2006.
Already registered?
Login here
 | Back to forum list |
| Back to Ireland |
| Jump to newest |  |
"So this one is for the men. Men are extremely pressured by society to fit into this "box" just like women are. However when men try to speak on this issue they tend to get shut down and a lot of it comes from their own gender, but from women too. You are allowed to feel, to have emotions, to not keep everything in. You do not always have to be strong. Society has made men believe they cannot show weakness, that they must always have it together and be Dominant. Men come in all shapes and sizes and are pressured by societies ideals of what a man should look like. You cannot control what you cannot control. Your hair line, how much beard you can grow, where you grow hair, height, your bone structure, how much muscle you have or anything else. Your career field doesn't determine if you are a man or not. Really, life is too short! Find something you love and fuck anyone who says any different. You don't need to know how to build a house or cut down a tree. Stop expecting things from men when you don't want them to expect you to know how to cook and clean. Your dick size doesn't make you any more or less of a man. Stay at home dads are just as important as stay at home moms. Your body is your body. Your body is just as important as a woman's body and should be respected as such. It is harder for men to relate to what women go through because I think a lot of men would enjoy some attention... hearing how someone found them attractive and wanted them. And that's a normal thing to want. It's hard to understand someone complaining about something you'd enjoy but lack. It's okay if you like ass play, it doesn't determine your sexuality. Your sexuality also doesn't determine if you are a man or not. I know there are other issues that men face as well and none of these are right and changes should be made. It shouldn't be men against women. It should be us against society standards. In the end we are all human and we just want to be ourselves without judgement, but to also feel safe in the world we live in." Note: These are not my words, but I loved it so much that I've decided to post it here. If you want to know who wrote it I can send the original link in private. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
 | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"No coffee here...but I like the Post OP. I absolutly hate the phrase "man up" Morning." Fozz up sounds better  | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Men are extremely pressured by society to fit into this "box" just like women are. However when men try to speak on this issue they tend to get shut down and a lot of it comes from their own gender, but from women too. You are allowed to feel, to have emotions, to not keep everything in. You do not always have to be strong. Society has made men believe they cannot show weakness, that they must always have it together and be Dominant. Men come in all shapes and sizes and are pressured by societies ideals of what a man should look like. You cannot control what you cannot control. Your hair line, how much beard you can grow, where you grow hair, height, your bone structure, how much muscle you have or anything else. Your career field doesn't determine if you are a man or not. Really, life is too short! Find something you love and fuck anyone who says any different. You don't need to know how to build a house or cut down a tree. Stop expecting things from men when you don't want them to expect you to know how to cook and clean. Your dick size doesn't make you any more or less of a man. Stay at home dads are just as important as stay at home moms. Your body is your body. Your body is just as important as a woman's body and should be respected as such. It is harder for men to relate to what women go through because I think a lot of men would enjoy some attention... hearing how someone found them attractive and wanted them. And that's a normal thing to want. It's hard to understand someone complaining about something you'd enjoy but lack. It's okay if you like ass play, it doesn't determine your sexuality. Your sexuality also doesn't determine if you are a man or not. I know there are other issues that men face as well and none of these are right and changes should be made. It shouldn't be men against women. It should be us against society standards. In the end we are all human and we just want to be ourselves without judgement, but to also feel safe in the world we live in. Agreed "Agreed. But the conditioning starts so young and so unconsciously. eg i was out front my daughter playing with a kids buggy. Male neughbour walks past pushing young son in buggy, other son comes in to play with my daughter, wants to push her doll in the buggy and Dad says no,boys dont play with them. the irony 
anyway. im in agreement - just be a solid human, and you'll be loved for it | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"No coffee here...but I like the Post OP. I absolutly hate the phrase "man up" Morning. Fozz up sounds better "If it has the same sentiments as "man up"...than that's a no from me. But if it's a phrase you want to coin and promote out of general admiration...than feel free Thunderkisser 
And again. I like your post OP. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Men are extremely pressured by society to fit into this "box" just like women are. However when men try to speak on this issue they tend to get shut down and a lot of it comes from their own gender, but from women too. You are allowed to feel, to have emotions, to not keep everything in. You do not always have to be strong. Society has made men believe they cannot show weakness, that they must always have it together and be Dominant. Men come in all shapes and sizes and are pressured by societies ideals of what a man should look like. You cannot control what you cannot control. Your hair line, how much beard you can grow, where you grow hair, height, your bone structure, how much muscle you have or anything else. Your career field doesn't determine if you are a man or not. Really, life is too short! Find something you love and fuck anyone who says any different. You don't need to know how to build a house or cut down a tree. Stop expecting things from men when you don't want them to expect you to know how to cook and clean. Your dick size doesn't make you any more or less of a man. Stay at home dads are just as important as stay at home moms. Your body is your body. Your body is just as important as a woman's body and should be respected as such. It is harder for men to relate to what women go through because I think a lot of men would enjoy some attention... hearing how someone found them attractive and wanted them. And that's a normal thing to want. It's hard to understand someone complaining about something you'd enjoy but lack. It's okay if you like ass play, it doesn't determine your sexuality. Your sexuality also doesn't determine if you are a man or not. I know there are other issues that men face as well and none of these are right and changes should be made. It shouldn't be men against women. It should be us against society standards. In the end we are all human and we just want to be ourselves without judgement, but to also feel safe in the world we live in. Agreed
Agreed. But the conditioning starts so young and so unconsciously. eg i was out front my daughter playing with a kids buggy. Male neughbour walks past pushing young son in buggy, other son comes in to play with my daughter, wants to push her doll in the buggy and Dad says no,boys dont play with them. the irony
anyway. im in agreement - just be a solid human, and you'll be loved for it "My grandsons have had their nails painted and played with make-up because my daughter is determined they shouldn't have a narrow view of life. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
There would be no need for urinals 
Sports channels would fold
Roundabouts would need to be removed to avoid traffic jams
Man's pursuit of outer space poon would stop so no more NASA
Betting shops would be replaced by Salons
The news would be renamed to "I told you so"
What else? | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"What would the world be without men?
There would be no need for urinals
Sports channels would fold
Roundabouts would need to be removed to avoid traffic jams
Man's pursuit of outer space poon would stop so no more NASA
Betting shops would be replaced by Salons
The news would be renamed to "I told you so"
What else? "I would have no friends  | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"What would the world be without men?
There would be no need for urinals
Sports channels would fold
Roundabouts would need to be removed to avoid traffic jams
Man's pursuit of outer space poon would stop so no more NASA
Betting shops would be replaced by Salons
The news would be renamed to "I told you so"
What else?
I would have no friends "Aaaaaaw  | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"What would the world be without men?
There would be no need for urinals
Sports channels would fold
Roundabouts would need to be removed to avoid traffic jams
Man's pursuit of outer space poon would stop so no more NASA
Betting shops would be replaced by Salons
The news would be renamed to "I told you so"
What else?
I would have no friends
Aaaaaaw "Fact. My besties are all male. Men are awesome | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"What would the world be without men?
There would be no need for urinals
Sports channels would fold
Roundabouts would need to be removed to avoid traffic jams
Man's pursuit of outer space poon would stop so no more NASA
Betting shops would be replaced by Salons
The news would be renamed to "I told you so"
What else?
I would have no friends
Aaaaaaw
Fact. My besties are all male. Men are awesome"Not as awesome as hot ass babes  | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"I wonder how much of this ring true in day to day real life.... Granted you always get people who are closed minded but I dont see this alot in the real world. I think at times we have a wrapped view when we spend too much time online. The idiots and extremists are usually the loudest on online forums and social media." Unfortunately I've seen quite a few in the real world. I live in Jurassic park after all where dinosaurs still roam. I've worked with and for numerous mysoginists and have been involved in various disciplinary proceedings for racist, sexist and politically motivated actions. I've also seen children being mocked by their peers for not conforming to stereotype. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"I wonder how much of this ring true in day to day real life.... Granted you always get people who are closed minded but I dont see this alot in the real world. I think at times we have a wrapped view when we spend too much time online. The idiots and extremists are usually the loudest on online forums and social media. Unfortunately I've seen quite a few in the real world. I live in Jurassic park after all where dinosaurs still roam. I've worked with and for numerous mysoginists and have been involved in various disciplinary proceedings for racist, sexist and politically motivated actions. I've also seen children being mocked by their peers for not conforming to stereotype." I'm not saying it never happens... But my general experience is that people have a far broader view of gender roles than is sometimes represented especially online | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"I wonder how much of this ring true in day to day real life.... Granted you always get people who are closed minded but I dont see this alot in the real world. I think at times we have a wrapped view when we spend too much time online. The idiots and extremists are usually the loudest on online forums and social media. Unfortunately I've seen quite a few in the real world. I live in Jurassic park after all where dinosaurs still roam. I've worked with and for numerous mysoginists and have been involved in various disciplinary proceedings for racist, sexist and politically motivated actions. I've also seen children being mocked by their peers for not conforming to stereotype. I'm not saying it never happens... But my general experience is that people have a far broader view of gender roles than is sometimes represented especially online" Agreed but 4 years ago I fought hard to get my boss to employ women in a warehouse environment. He was against it for various reasons and felt they weren't suited. He is the same age as me but had a totally different outlook. He agreed to bring one in on trial and eventually had 5 women as fully trained warehouse operatives and had to admit that his narrow mindedness could have cost us in the long term. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"I wonder how much of this ring true in day to day real life.... Granted you always get people who are closed minded but I dont see this alot in the real world. I think at times we have a wrapped view when we spend too much time online. The idiots and extremists are usually the loudest on online forums and social media. Unfortunately I've seen quite a few in the real world. I live in Jurassic park after all where dinosaurs still roam. I've worked with and for numerous mysoginists and have been involved in various disciplinary proceedings for racist, sexist and politically motivated actions. I've also seen children being mocked by their peers for not conforming to stereotype. I'm not saying it never happens... But my general experience is that people have a far broader view of gender roles than is sometimes represented especially online Agreed but 4 years ago I fought hard to get my boss to employ women in a warehouse environment. He was against it for various reasons and felt they weren't suited. He is the same age as me but had a totally different outlook. He agreed to bring one in on trial and eventually had 5 women as fully trained warehouse operatives and had to admit that his narrow mindedness could have cost us in the long term. " . So even his outlook has changed to a degree? Thats kind of my point people for the most part other than the obvious rare exceptions are not as closed minded or extreme as online personas would lead us to believe | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
 | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"I always knew that men are actually the weak sex. "You forgot the 'from' between Wark and sex there | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"I absolutely agree with that. Well done to whoever wrote it. It is about time that some of the unfair treatment men get here is highlighted. Its takes real men to agree with it as they are not afraid of stepping outside the sheep mentality here ." Totally. And maybe men aren’t as good at speaking up for each other I never understand people who are steadfast and unmovable in their traits of what they expect in a romantic or sexual partner I don’t judge them but I just don’t understand Great original post | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
 | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"I'm a feminist and this is feminism. Its equality for all genders, races and sexual orientations. We can't have equal rights for one and not the other. The world has changed dramatically, traditional male roles aren't as viable as they were. For some this is a big issue. Some will become toxic about their masculinity but others will fight to be accepted as they are. I stand with men who want to be accepted as themselves as opposed to gender normative stereotypes. I hope these men will stand alongside the women who fight for the same levels of equality. Really lovely piece and I'd love to know the author "Bingo
The difference between men and women's struggle against patriarchy and toxic masculinity is that historical men created those systems to benefit themselves. It's definitely not beneficial anymore, and it harms EVERYONE, but if we're going to destroy it, we need more men to start rejecting it. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"No coffee here...but I like the Post OP. I absolutly hate the phrase "man up" Morning." What you talking about ya Numpty. Man up will ya Fozzy. In the worst moment of my life. I Literally went out an emotional windscreen at 80mph with no helmet. It wasen't my doing as I wasen't driving. I was road kill. Someone said to me "man up". I rejected him on the spot. There was nothing he could say to me to redeem himself. I'm a single parent. Working Father. My role in life as a person is too frame and support two children becoming kind well adjusted tolerant adults. To be a person is just to pass it on but do it better. Im trying to do this as a person. I've learned from the Ma. Like I said. I like the Post OP. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"I wonder how much of this ring true in day to day real life.... Granted you always get people who are closed minded but I dont see this alot in the real world. I think at times we have a wrapped view when we spend too much time online. The idiots and extremists are usually the loudest on online forums and social media. Unfortunately I've seen quite a few in the real world. I live in Jurassic park after all where dinosaurs still roam. I've worked with and for numerous mysoginists and have been involved in various disciplinary proceedings for racist, sexist and politically motivated actions. I've also seen children being mocked by their peers for not conforming to stereotype. I'm not saying it never happens... But my general experience is that people have a far broader view of gender roles than is sometimes represented especially online" I’d say it’s far from the minority You may just be not seeing it all around you | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"I'm a feminist and this is feminism. Its equality for all genders, races and sexual orientations. We can't have equal rights for one and not the other. The world has changed dramatically, traditional male roles aren't as viable as they were. For some this is a big issue. Some will become toxic about their masculinity but others will fight to be accepted as they are. I stand with men who want to be accepted as themselves as opposed to gender normative stereotypes. I hope these men will stand alongside the women who fight for the same levels of equality. Really lovely piece and I'd love to know the author
Bingo
The difference between men and women's struggle against patriarchy and toxic masculinity is that historical men created those systems to benefit themselves. It's definitely not beneficial anymore, and it harms EVERYONE, but if we're going to destroy it, we need more men to start rejecting it."Amen sister!!! Our society was built on male domination and suppressed women. Built for straight white men. We're not all that, we're every colour, every gender, every sexuality. We need to come together and fight the f@cking patriarchy!! | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"No coffee here...but I like the Post OP. I absolutly hate the phrase "man up" Morning. What you talking about ya Numpty. Man up will ya Fozzy. In the worst moment of my life. I Literally went out an emotional windscreen at 80mph with no helmet. It wasen't my doing as I wasen't driving. I was road kill. Someone said to me "man up". I rejected him on the spot. There was nothing he could say to me to redeem himself. I'm a single parent. Working Father. My role in life as a person is too frame and support two children becoming kind well adjusted tolerant adults. To be a person is just to pass it on but do it better. Im trying to do this as a person. I've learned from the Ma. Like I said. I like the Post OP. "Man Up, the most disgusting phrase to use to a man or boy. Man up is Bury your feelings, don't acknowledge pain, allow these feelings to build, become toxic and shape your life negatively. I hope for the majority we've rejected this. Good on ya Fozzy for saying this, its so bloody relivant | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Great post We are living in an age where gender fluidity and every other conceivable option is being addressed and finally as result the true meaning behind equality is also. It is absolutely 100% ok to be whoever you are and wear it like a rockstar. Being manly is not about physical strength and never should have been. Its about strength of character, knowing who you are and unapologetically standing by that. " Brilliant | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"I'm a feminist and this is feminism. Its equality for all genders, races and sexual orientations. We can't have equal rights for one and not the other. The world has changed dramatically, traditional male roles aren't as viable as they were. For some this is a big issue. Some will become toxic about their masculinity but others will fight to be accepted as they are. I stand with men who want to be accepted as themselves as opposed to gender normative stereotypes. I hope these men will stand alongside the women who fight for the same levels of equality. Really lovely piece and I'd love to know the author "100%  | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"I'm a feminist and this is feminism. Its equality for all genders, races and sexual orientations. We can't have equal rights for one and not the other. The world has changed dramatically, traditional male roles aren't as viable as they were. For some this is a big issue. Some will become toxic about their masculinity but others will fight to be accepted as they are. I stand with men who want to be accepted as themselves as opposed to gender normative stereotypes. I hope these men will stand alongside the women who fight for the same levels of equality. Really lovely piece and I'd love to know the author "This is a genuine question for any feminist. It's not a shitstirring question but an attempt to understand previous experiences and I've never found anyone who can give a definitive answer. Standing in a men's changing room at a local swimming pool one evening a woman walked in with her son who was 8 or 9 years old and proceeded to get him changed. She was asked to leave by the men in the communal area and refused saying she had every right to be there in order to protect her son. Every man in that room had a child getting swimming lessons and those like me with young girls had either allowed them to go into the women's changing rooms alone or used the other locked cubicles. A major row erupted and a man challenged the staff to remove her but they refused. He then asked what would happen if he had done likewise in the woman's area. He was told he would be asked to leave and if he didn't they would call the police. On another occasion in an hotel in Clones on Ulster Final day numerous women invaded the gents toilets without reprisal but when one man voiced his disappointment with the lack of action by the Guards and walked into the ladies he was arrested. Just two of a number of similar incidents so my question is where was the equality there? I'm all for equal rights as should be obvious by my previous comments in this and other threads so I would appreciate similar respect in any replies. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
" Just two of a number of similar incidents so my question is where was the equality there? " You know that the existence of feminism doesn't automatically erase all instances of injustice and inequality, right? And that feminism didn't cause what happened in those situations? As I said above, if you think that's unfair, you need to work with us to destroy patriarchy and gender norms. Not ask why feminists haven't fixed it yet. (But for what it's worth - inadequate provision of womens or gender neutral toilets is a direct result of sexism in the first place. If women were adequately catered for, they wouldn't need to use other facilities.) | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"I'm a feminist and this is feminism. Its equality for all genders, races and sexual orientations. We can't have equal rights for one and not the other. The world has changed dramatically, traditional male roles aren't as viable as they were. For some this is a big issue. Some will become toxic about their masculinity but others will fight to be accepted as they are. I stand with men who want to be accepted as themselves as opposed to gender normative stereotypes. I hope these men will stand alongside the women who fight for the same levels of equality. Really lovely piece and I'd love to know the author
This is a genuine question for any feminist. It's not a shitstirring question but an attempt to understand previous experiences and I've never found anyone who can give a definitive answer.
Standing in a men's changing room at a local swimming pool one evening a woman walked in with her son who was 8 or 9 years old and proceeded to get him changed. She was asked to leave by the men in the communal area and refused saying she had every right to be there in order to protect her son. Every man in that room had a child getting swimming lessons and those like me with young girls had either allowed them to go into the women's changing rooms alone or used the other locked cubicles.
A major row erupted and a man challenged the staff to remove her but they refused. He then asked what would happen if he had done likewise in the woman's area. He was told he would be asked to leave and if he didn't they would call the police.
On another occasion in an hotel in Clones on Ulster Final day numerous women invaded the gents toilets without reprisal but when one man voiced his disappointment with the lack of action by the Guards and walked into the ladies he was arrested.
Just two of a number of similar incidents so my question is where was the equality there?
I'm all for equal rights as should be obvious by my previous comments in this and other threads so I would appreciate similar respect in any replies. "Reminds me of an incident I experienced when I was younger. I was with my friend at our favourite cafe. This same cafe was very popular in the gay men scene. When I had to go to the bathroom the ladie's was occupied by two lads having sex. So I just went to the men's. When I came out there was a waiter callenging me and telling me if I ever did that again I would be never allowed to come to the cafe again. No consequences for the two men in the ladies. Ahh such is life... | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"I'm a feminist and this is feminism. Its equality for all genders, races and sexual orientations. We can't have equal rights for one and not the other. The world has changed dramatically, traditional male roles aren't as viable as they were. For some this is a big issue. Some will become toxic about their masculinity but others will fight to be accepted as they are. I stand with men who want to be accepted as themselves as opposed to gender normative stereotypes. I hope these men will stand alongside the women who fight for the same levels of equality. Really lovely piece and I'd love to know the author
This is a genuine question for any feminist. It's not a shitstirring question but an attempt to understand previous experiences and I've never found anyone who can give a definitive answer.
Standing in a men's changing room at a local swimming pool one evening a woman walked in with her son who was 8 or 9 years old and proceeded to get him changed. She was asked to leave by the men in the communal area and refused saying she had every right to be there in order to protect her son. Every man in that room had a child getting swimming lessons and those like me with young girls had either allowed them to go into the women's changing rooms alone or used the other locked cubicles.
A major row erupted and a man challenged the staff to remove her but they refused. He then asked what would happen if he had done likewise in the woman's area. He was told he would be asked to leave and if he didn't they would call the police.
On another occasion in an hotel in Clones on Ulster Final day numerous women invaded the gents toilets without reprisal but when one man voiced his disappointment with the lack of action by the Guards and walked into the ladies he was arrested.
Just two of a number of similar incidents so my question is where was the equality there?
I'm all for equal rights as should be obvious by my previous comments in this and other threads so I would appreciate similar respect in any replies. "I would have thrown her out.... | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
" Just two of a number of similar incidents so my question is where was the equality there? You know that the existence of feminism doesn't automatically erase all instances of injustice and inequality, right? And that feminism didn't cause what happened in those situations? As I said above, if you think that's unfair, you need to work with us to destroy patriarchy and gender norms. Not ask why feminists haven't fixed it yet. (But for what it's worth - inadequate provision of womens or gender neutral toilets is a direct result of sexism in the first place. If women were adequately catered for, they wouldn't need to use other facilities.) " Or they could just use the facilities that were there for women instead of going into where men were. Feminism should be about equality and not always looking at a way to blame men for everything.The attitude that women are always hard done by is not right either. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
" Just two of a number of similar incidents so my question is where was the equality there? You know that the existence of feminism doesn't automatically erase all instances of injustice and inequality, right? And that feminism didn't cause what happened in those situations? As I said above, if you think that's unfair, you need to work with us to destroy patriarchy and gender norms. Not ask why feminists haven't fixed it yet. (But for what it's worth - inadequate provision of womens or gender neutral toilets is a direct result of sexism in the first place. If women were adequately catered for, they wouldn't need to use other facilities.) " As I said already those facilities did exist in the swimming pool environment. I didn't accuse feminists of creating any issue or ask them to fix anything. As the father of 3 daughters I'm well aware of the issues created over many generations and as you can see above I have challenged the patriarchy on numerous occasions and continue to do so. This thread is about men not being afraid to express themselves or having to conform to societies conventions. We cannot change anything if we don't ask questions and those seeking to change shouldn't need to be defensive when asked. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"I'm a feminist and this is feminism. Its equality for all genders, races and sexual orientations. We can't have equal rights for one and not the other. The world has changed dramatically, traditional male roles aren't as viable as they were. For some this is a big issue. Some will become toxic about their masculinity but others will fight to be accepted as they are. I stand with men who want to be accepted as themselves as opposed to gender normative stereotypes. I hope these men will stand alongside the women who fight for the same levels of equality. Really lovely piece and I'd love to know the author
This is a genuine question for any feminist. It's not a shitstirring question but an attempt to understand previous experiences and I've never found anyone who can give a definitive answer.
Standing in a men's changing room at a local swimming pool one evening a woman walked in with her son who was 8 or 9 years old and proceeded to get him changed. She was asked to leave by the men in the communal area and refused saying she had every right to be there in order to protect her son. Every man in that room had a child getting swimming lessons and those like me with young girls had either allowed them to go into the women's changing rooms alone or used the other locked cubicles.
A major row erupted and a man challenged the staff to remove her but they refused. He then asked what would happen if he had done likewise in the woman's area. He was told he would be asked to leave and if he didn't they would call the police.
On another occasion in an hotel in Clones on Ulster Final day numerous women invaded the gents toilets without reprisal but when one man voiced his disappointment with the lack of action by the Guards and walked into the ladies he was arrested.
Just two of a number of similar incidents so my question is where was the equality there?
I'm all for equal rights as should be obvious by my previous comments in this and other threads so I would appreciate similar respect in any replies.
I would have thrown her out....
" | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
" Just two of a number of similar incidents so my question is where was the equality there? You know that the existence of feminism doesn't automatically erase all instances of injustice and inequality, right? And that feminism didn't cause what happened in those situations? As I said above, if you think that's unfair, you need to work with us to destroy patriarchy and gender norms. Not ask why feminists haven't fixed it yet. (But for what it's worth - inadequate provision of womens or gender neutral toilets is a direct result of sexism in the first place. If women were adequately catered for, they wouldn't need to use other facilities.) As I said already those facilities did exist in the swimming pool environment. I didn't accuse feminists of creating any issue or ask them to fix anything. As the father of 3 daughters I'm well aware of the issues created over many generations and as you can see above I have challenged the patriarchy on numerous occasions and continue to do so. This thread is about men not being afraid to express themselves or having to conform to societies conventions. We cannot change anything if we don't ask questions and those seeking to change shouldn't need to be defensive when asked. " Correct, it's a two way street. If that woman at the swimming pool had been told by staff to go back to the other changing area with her son, I think that is acceptable but how it was handled wasn't. Communal areas with private changing rooms for families is the solution but again you will have those that use these situations to their advantage in every walk of life. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"This thread is about men not being afraid to express themselves or having to conform to societies conventions. We cannot change anything if we don't ask questions" Very good point! | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"I'm a feminist and this is feminism. Its equality for all genders, races and sexual orientations. We can't have equal rights for one and not the other. The world has changed dramatically, traditional male roles aren't as viable as they were. For some this is a big issue. Some will become toxic about their masculinity but others will fight to be accepted as they are. I stand with men who want to be accepted as themselves as opposed to gender normative stereotypes. I hope these men will stand alongside the women who fight for the same levels of equality. Really lovely piece and I'd love to know the author
This is a genuine question for any feminist. It's not a shitstirring question but an attempt to understand previous experiences and I've never found anyone who can give a definitive answer.
Standing in a men's changing room at a local swimming pool one evening a woman walked in with her son who was 8 or 9 years old and proceeded to get him changed. She was asked to leave by the men in the communal area and refused saying she had every right to be there in order to protect her son. Every man in that room had a child getting swimming lessons and those like me with young girls had either allowed them to go into the women's changing rooms alone or used the other locked cubicles.
A major row erupted and a man challenged the staff to remove her but they refused. He then asked what would happen if he had done likewise in the woman's area. He was told he would be asked to leave and if he didn't they would call the police.
On another occasion in an hotel in Clones on Ulster Final day numerous women invaded the gents toilets without reprisal but when one man voiced his disappointment with the lack of action by the Guards and walked into the ladies he was arrested.
Just two of a number of similar incidents so my question is where was the equality there?
I'm all for equal rights as should be obvious by my previous comments in this and other threads so I would appreciate similar respect in any replies. "With all due respect to you I don't have a definitive answer to that. Its to me blatant inequality. Of course either male or females should be allowed to accompany their child into a changing room. I've done it but always in a gender neutral environment or used a cubical. As far as these two examples the finger should be pointed at those in charge for poor leadership. Also tbh in a world where there is blatant abuse of women rights and womens bodys every single day id view these examples as poor. Even here, how many single men have womens body parts displayed in their pictures. Have they sought permission to use and share that image ?? There's laws now regarding that. Its a criminal offence. We all can pull examples of inequality but as the father of daughters im sure your very aware of the gender norms pushed on women every day. Its not OK. Is it ok that our right to safe is not a given and we must go around in heightened states of awareness all the time ? Is it ok that only last week a victim of a serious sexual assault had to sit through a trial and listen to glowing character references of her convicted assailant. The bathroom thing is an issue if abused the examples I've given are the tip of the iceberg. I hope your get a definitive answer to your questions. I hope to get definitive answers to mine. Experiences as a woman tells me I wont | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"I'm a feminist and this is feminism. Its equality for all genders, races and sexual orientations. We can't have equal rights for one and not the other. The world has changed dramatically, traditional male roles aren't as viable as they were. For some this is a big issue. Some will become toxic about their masculinity but others will fight to be accepted as they are. I stand with men who want to be accepted as themselves as opposed to gender normative stereotypes. I hope these men will stand alongside the women who fight for the same levels of equality. Really lovely piece and I'd love to know the author
This is a genuine question for any feminist. It's not a shitstirring question but an attempt to understand previous experiences and I've never found anyone who can give a definitive answer.
Standing in a men's changing room at a local swimming pool one evening a woman walked in with her son who was 8 or 9 years old and proceeded to get him changed. She was asked to leave by the men in the communal area and refused saying she had every right to be there in order to protect her son. Every man in that room had a child getting swimming lessons and those like me with young girls had either allowed them to go into the women's changing rooms alone or used the other locked cubicles.
A major row erupted and a man challenged the staff to remove her but they refused. He then asked what would happen if he had done likewise in the woman's area. He was told he would be asked to leave and if he didn't they would call the police.
On another occasion in an hotel in Clones on Ulster Final day numerous women invaded the gents toilets without reprisal but when one man voiced his disappointment with the lack of action by the Guards and walked into the ladies he was arrested.
Just two of a number of similar incidents so my question is where was the equality there?
I'm all for equal rights as should be obvious by my previous comments in this and other threads so I would appreciate similar respect in any replies.
With all due respect to you I don't have a definitive answer to that. Its to me blatant inequality. Of course either male or females should be allowed to accompany their child into a changing room. I've done it but always in a gender neutral environment or used a cubical. As far as these two examples the finger should be pointed at those in charge for poor leadership. Also tbh in a world where there is blatant abuse of women rights and womens bodys every single day id view these examples as poor. Even here, how many single men have womens body parts displayed in their pictures. Have they sought permission to use and share that image ?? There's laws now regarding that. Its a criminal offence. We all can pull examples of inequality but as the father of daughters im sure your very aware of the gender norms pushed on women every day. Its not OK. Is it ok that our right to safe is not a given and we must go around in heightened states of awareness all the time ? Is it ok that only last week a victim of a serious sexual assault had to sit through a trial and listen to glowing character references of her convicted assailant. The bathroom thing is an issue if abused the examples I've given are the tip of the iceberg. I hope your get a definitive answer to your questions. I hope to get definitive answers to mine. Experiences as a woman tells me I wont
"The biggest issue I see with conversations like these are that everyone can only draw on their own experiences. Asking people to change and to do more for women's rights is fine and well but quite often in my experience as a man I've seen other men ask how they can help and getting abuse simply for asking. It's one thing asking men to see things from a woman's perspective but how do you expect them to do that if you tell them not to ask stupid questions or to simply open their eyes? Of course my examples are minor in the grand scheme of things but then again not every woman is a victim or feels victimised. You can't ask for help and then slap the hand that is offered. The answer to every question about equality doesn't have to involve the word victim. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"I'm a feminist and this is feminism. Its equality for all genders, races and sexual orientations. We can't have equal rights for one and not the other. The world has changed dramatically, traditional male roles aren't as viable as they were. For some this is a big issue. Some will become toxic about their masculinity but others will fight to be accepted as they are. I stand with men who want to be accepted as themselves as opposed to gender normative stereotypes. I hope these men will stand alongside the women who fight for the same levels of equality. Really lovely piece and I'd love to know the author
This is a genuine question for any feminist. It's not a shitstirring question but an attempt to understand previous experiences and I've never found anyone who can give a definitive answer.
Standing in a men's changing room at a local swimming pool one evening a woman walked in with her son who was 8 or 9 years old and proceeded to get him changed. She was asked to leave by the men in the communal area and refused saying she had every right to be there in order to protect her son. Every man in that room had a child getting swimming lessons and those like me with young girls had either allowed them to go into the women's changing rooms alone or used the other locked cubicles.
A major row erupted and a man challenged the staff to remove her but they refused. He then asked what would happen if he had done likewise in the woman's area. He was told he would be asked to leave and if he didn't they would call the police.
On another occasion in an hotel in Clones on Ulster Final day numerous women invaded the gents toilets without reprisal but when one man voiced his disappointment with the lack of action by the Guards and walked into the ladies he was arrested.
Just two of a number of similar incidents so my question is where was the equality there?
I'm all for equal rights as should be obvious by my previous comments in this and other threads so I would appreciate similar respect in any replies.
With all due respect to you I don't have a definitive answer to that. Its to me blatant inequality. Of course either male or females should be allowed to accompany their child into a changing room. I've done it but always in a gender neutral environment or used a cubical. As far as these two examples the finger should be pointed at those in charge for poor leadership. Also tbh in a world where there is blatant abuse of women rights and womens bodys every single day id view these examples as poor. Even here, how many single men have womens body parts displayed in their pictures. Have they sought permission to use and share that image ?? There's laws now regarding that. Its a criminal offence. We all can pull examples of inequality but as the father of daughters im sure your very aware of the gender norms pushed on women every day. Its not OK. Is it ok that our right to safe is not a given and we must go around in heightened states of awareness all the time ? Is it ok that only last week a victim of a serious sexual assault had to sit through a trial and listen to glowing character references of her convicted assailant. The bathroom thing is an issue if abused the examples I've given are the tip of the iceberg. I hope your get a definitive answer to your questions. I hope to get definitive answers to mine. Experiences as a woman tells me I wont
The biggest issue I see with conversations like these are that everyone can only draw on their own experiences.
Asking people to change and to do more for women's rights is fine and well but quite often in my experience as a man I've seen other men ask how they can help and getting abuse simply for asking.
It's one thing asking men to see things from a woman's perspective but how do you expect them to do that if you tell them not to ask stupid questions or to simply open their eyes?
Of course my examples are minor in the grand scheme of things but then again not every woman is a victim or feels victimised.
You can't ask for help and then slap the hand that is offered.
The answer to every question about equality doesn't have to involve the word victim.
"While your points are valid ill correct you on your use of the word victim. This young woman was a victim of a horrendous crime which im prevented from saying here. Women, black and brown people, lgbtq+ community have been victims of a society that is centered around the cis white male, "the patriarchy". I love to educate, inform anyone about the gender bias in our society, but for some with all the privilege they don't or won't see it. The examples I've given are examples of a male driven society but not presented in a way that you are accepting of them. There is inequality everywhere and the term open your eyes is as much a metaphorical term as it is a physical term. Sometimes the best thing to do with information is to sit with it quietly and think about whats been said. Is this a society we want our daughters growing up in, our sons growing up in ?? Or do we want better for them ? We need a society where we truly listen. Its not shouty women going off on one. This a community of intelligent, articulate people saying im not accepting inequality anymore and doing it in a vocal way across all forms of media. I've given you examples, I've used the word victim because its relevant, its true. There isn't another way to truthfully describe it. As a another human please don't rewrite the experiences of others. Accept whats been said and from there you'll learn. As a pointer, this is written with passion but never a raised voice. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"I'm a feminist and this is feminism. Its equality for all genders, races and sexual orientations. We can't have equal rights for one and not the other. The world has changed dramatically, traditional male roles aren't as viable as they were. For some this is a big issue. Some will become toxic about their masculinity but others will fight to be accepted as they are. I stand with men who want to be accepted as themselves as opposed to gender normative stereotypes. I hope these men will stand alongside the women who fight for the same levels of equality. Really lovely piece and I'd love to know the author
This is a genuine question for any feminist. It's not a shitstirring question but an attempt to understand previous experiences and I've never found anyone who can give a definitive answer.
Standing in a men's changing room at a local swimming pool one evening a woman walked in with her son who was 8 or 9 years old and proceeded to get him changed. She was asked to leave by the men in the communal area and refused saying she had every right to be there in order to protect her son. Every man in that room had a child getting swimming lessons and those like me with young girls had either allowed them to go into the women's changing rooms alone or used the other locked cubicles.
A major row erupted and a man challenged the staff to remove her but they refused. He then asked what would happen if he had done likewise in the woman's area. He was told he would be asked to leave and if he didn't they would call the police.
On another occasion in an hotel in Clones on Ulster Final day numerous women invaded the gents toilets without reprisal but when one man voiced his disappointment with the lack of action by the Guards and walked into the ladies he was arrested.
Just two of a number of similar incidents so my question is where was the equality there?
I'm all for equal rights as should be obvious by my previous comments in this and other threads so I would appreciate similar respect in any replies.
With all due respect to you I don't have a definitive answer to that. Its to me blatant inequality. Of course either male or females should be allowed to accompany their child into a changing room. I've done it but always in a gender neutral environment or used a cubical. As far as these two examples the finger should be pointed at those in charge for poor leadership. Also tbh in a world where there is blatant abuse of women rights and womens bodys every single day id view these examples as poor. Even here, how many single men have womens body parts displayed in their pictures. Have they sought permission to use and share that image ?? There's laws now regarding that. Its a criminal offence. We all can pull examples of inequality but as the father of daughters im sure your very aware of the gender norms pushed on women every day. Its not OK. Is it ok that our right to safe is not a given and we must go around in heightened states of awareness all the time ? Is it ok that only last week a victim of a serious sexual assault had to sit through a trial and listen to glowing character references of her convicted assailant. The bathroom thing is an issue if abused the examples I've given are the tip of the iceberg. I hope your get a definitive answer to your questions. I hope to get definitive answers to mine. Experiences as a woman tells me I wont
The biggest issue I see with conversations like these are that everyone can only draw on their own experiences.
Asking people to change and to do more for women's rights is fine and well but quite often in my experience as a man I've seen other men ask how they can help and getting abuse simply for asking.
It's one thing asking men to see things from a woman's perspective but how do you expect them to do that if you tell them not to ask stupid questions or to simply open their eyes?
Of course my examples are minor in the grand scheme of things but then again not every woman is a victim or feels victimised.
You can't ask for help and then slap the hand that is offered.
The answer to every question about equality doesn't have to involve the word victim.
While your points are valid ill correct you on your use of the word victim. This young woman was a victim of a horrendous crime which im prevented from saying here. Women, black and brown people, lgbtq+ community have been victims of a society that is centered around the cis white male, "the patriarchy". I love to educate, inform anyone about the gender bias in our society, but for some with all the privilege they don't or won't see it. The examples I've given are examples of a male driven society but not presented in a way that you are accepting of them. There is inequality everywhere and the term open your eyes is as much a metaphorical term as it is a physical term. Sometimes the best thing to do with information is to sit with it quietly and think about whats been said. Is this a society we want our daughters growing up in, our sons growing up in ?? Or do we want better for them ?
We need a society where we truly listen. Its not shouty women going off on one. This a community of intelligent, articulate people saying im not accepting inequality anymore and doing it in a vocal way across all forms of media. I've given you examples, I've used the word victim because its relevant, its true. There isn't another way to truthfully describe it. As a another human please don't rewrite the experiences of others. Accept whats been said and from there you'll learn. As a pointer, this is written with passion but never a raised voice. "I accept all of that but my point is that this thread is titled Men are as good as women but yet when we attempt to express ourselves in a positive way the conversation suddenly becomes all about women being victims of society or patriarchal system. In any other area if someone is struggling with a task and they ask someone to assist it's much easier if the task is actually explained to them so that they can then offer a second opinion. I don't believe for a second that women just want lip service from men. My personal experiences are all based on a matriarchal influence and my questions were always greeted with " it's woman's problems and you wouldn't understand". | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"I'm a feminist and this is feminism. Its equality for all genders, races and sexual orientations. We can't have equal rights for one and not the other. The world has changed dramatically, traditional male roles aren't as viable as they were. For some this is a big issue. Some will become toxic about their masculinity but others will fight to be accepted as they are. I stand with men who want to be accepted as themselves as opposed to gender normative stereotypes. I hope these men will stand alongside the women who fight for the same levels of equality. Really lovely piece and I'd love to know the author
This is a genuine question for any feminist. It's not a shitstirring question but an attempt to understand previous experiences and I've never found anyone who can give a definitive answer.
Standing in a men's changing room at a local swimming pool one evening a woman walked in with her son who was 8 or 9 years old and proceeded to get him changed. She was asked to leave by the men in the communal area and refused saying she had every right to be there in order to protect her son. Every man in that room had a child getting swimming lessons and those like me with young girls had either allowed them to go into the women's changing rooms alone or used the other locked cubicles.
A major row erupted and a man challenged the staff to remove her but they refused. He then asked what would happen if he had done likewise in the woman's area. He was told he would be asked to leave and if he didn't they would call the police.
On another occasion in an hotel in Clones on Ulster Final day numerous women invaded the gents toilets without reprisal but when one man voiced his disappointment with the lack of action by the Guards and walked into the ladies he was arrested.
Just two of a number of similar incidents so my question is where was the equality there?
I'm all for equal rights as should be obvious by my previous comments in this and other threads so I would appreciate similar respect in any replies.
With all due respect to you I don't have a definitive answer to that. Its to me blatant inequality. Of course either male or females should be allowed to accompany their child into a changing room. I've done it but always in a gender neutral environment or used a cubical. As far as these two examples the finger should be pointed at those in charge for poor leadership. Also tbh in a world where there is blatant abuse of women rights and womens bodys every single day id view these examples as poor. Even here, how many single men have womens body parts displayed in their pictures. Have they sought permission to use and share that image ?? There's laws now regarding that. Its a criminal offence. We all can pull examples of inequality but as the father of daughters im sure your very aware of the gender norms pushed on women every day. Its not OK. Is it ok that our right to safe is not a given and we must go around in heightened states of awareness all the time ? Is it ok that only last week a victim of a serious sexual assault had to sit through a trial and listen to glowing character references of her convicted assailant. The bathroom thing is an issue if abused the examples I've given are the tip of the iceberg. I hope your get a definitive answer to your questions. I hope to get definitive answers to mine. Experiences as a woman tells me I wont
The biggest issue I see with conversations like these are that everyone can only draw on their own experiences.
Asking people to change and to do more for women's rights is fine and well but quite often in my experience as a man I've seen other men ask how they can help and getting abuse simply for asking.
It's one thing asking men to see things from a woman's perspective but how do you expect them to do that if you tell them not to ask stupid questions or to simply open their eyes?
Of course my examples are minor in the grand scheme of things but then again not every woman is a victim or feels victimised.
You can't ask for help and then slap the hand that is offered.
The answer to every question about equality doesn't have to involve the word victim.
While your points are valid ill correct you on your use of the word victim. This young woman was a victim of a horrendous crime which im prevented from saying here. Women, black and brown people, lgbtq+ community have been victims of a society that is centered around the cis white male, "the patriarchy". I love to educate, inform anyone about the gender bias in our society, but for some with all the privilege they don't or won't see it. The examples I've given are examples of a male driven society but not presented in a way that you are accepting of them. There is inequality everywhere and the term open your eyes is as much a metaphorical term as it is a physical term. Sometimes the best thing to do with information is to sit with it quietly and think about whats been said. Is this a society we want our daughters growing up in, our sons growing up in ?? Or do we want better for them ?
We need a society where we truly listen. Its not shouty women going off on one. This a community of intelligent, articulate people saying im not accepting inequality anymore and doing it in a vocal way across all forms of media. I've given you examples, I've used the word victim because its relevant, its true. There isn't another way to truthfully describe it. As a another human please don't rewrite the experiences of others. Accept whats been said and from there you'll learn. As a pointer, this is written with passion but never a raised voice.
I accept all of that but my point is that this thread is titled Men are as good as women but yet when we attempt to express ourselves in a positive way the conversation suddenly becomes all about women being victims of society or patriarchal system.
In any other area if someone is struggling with a task and they ask someone to assist it's much easier if the task is actually explained to them so that they can then offer a second opinion.
I don't believe for a second that women just want lip service from men.
My personal experiences are all based on a matriarchal influence and my questions were always greeted with " it's woman's problems and you wouldn't understand".
"I get the "womens problems" statement. It was of its time and generation. I think most women now have zero problems discussing former taboo subjects such as periods, sexual health, desires with any gender. This thread was met with huge positivity, including my original comment. Which is one of my core beliefs. Equality starts with everyone. You gave examples of negative experiences, I responded as best I could without the ability to give a definitive answer, as I stated. I've no control over your reaction to either A. My original comment or B. How you perceived my response. These problems are new for men but its generational for women. Of course we'll bring our experiences to the table. We're a wealth of knowledge on the topic. Its sharing and listening to other peoples experiences that help to bring focus on your own. Its not about gender, its about experiences. Its important to listen to all sides and not dismiss another's experience. Your a father of daughters as you've stated. I don't know what age they are but probability is they've already experienced gender bias. So much is just acceptable. We don't think about it. This goes for our sons as well. Big boys don't cry, your my little princess. Neither of these statements should be used at children. Anywhoo we'll get kicked off here for too long messages. My point is the female experience is relevant to the male that wants change. In order to answer 90% of the questions we can pull from our own experiences. Why would a man that wants societal change ignore that experience? I'm in no way anti male but I am anti been dismissed, rewritten by any person. I feel your point was made, listened too and answered. The rest as they say is up to you | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
" Just two of a number of similar incidents so my question is where was the equality there? You know that the existence of feminism doesn't automatically erase all instances of injustice and inequality, right? And that feminism didn't cause what happened in those situations? As I said above, if you think that's unfair, you need to work with us to destroy patriarchy and gender norms. Not ask why feminists haven't fixed it yet. (But for what it's worth - inadequate provision of womens or gender neutral toilets is a direct result of sexism in the first place. If women were adequately catered for, they wouldn't need to use other facilities.) As I said already those facilities did exist in the swimming pool environment. I didn't accuse feminists of creating any issue or ask them to fix anything. As the father of 3 daughters I'm well aware of the issues created over many generations and as you can see above I have challenged the patriarchy on numerous occasions and continue to do so. This thread is about men not being afraid to express themselves or having to conform to societies conventions. We cannot change anything if we don't ask questions and those seeking to change shouldn't need to be defensive when asked. " Very well expressed | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"I'm a feminist and this is feminism. Its equality for all genders, races and sexual orientations. We can't have equal rights for one and not the other. The world has changed dramatically, traditional male roles aren't as viable as they were. For some this is a big issue. Some will become toxic about their masculinity but others will fight to be accepted as they are. I stand with men who want to be accepted as themselves as opposed to gender normative stereotypes. I hope these men will stand alongside the women who fight for the same levels of equality. Really lovely piece and I'd love to know the author
This is a genuine question for any feminist. It's not a shitstirring question but an attempt to understand previous experiences and I've never found anyone who can give a definitive answer.
Standing in a men's changing room at a local swimming pool one evening a woman walked in with her son who was 8 or 9 years old and proceeded to get him changed. She was asked to leave by the men in the communal area and refused saying she had every right to be there in order to protect her son. Every man in that room had a child getting swimming lessons and those like me with young girls had either allowed them to go into the women's changing rooms alone or used the other locked cubicles.
A major row erupted and a man challenged the staff to remove her but they refused. He then asked what would happen if he had done likewise in the woman's area. He was told he would be asked to leave and if he didn't they would call the police.
On another occasion in an hotel in Clones on Ulster Final day numerous women invaded the gents toilets without reprisal but when one man voiced his disappointment with the lack of action by the Guards and walked into the ladies he was arrested.
Just two of a number of similar incidents so my question is where was the equality there?
I'm all for equal rights as should be obvious by my previous comments in this and other threads so I would appreciate similar respect in any replies.
With all due respect to you I don't have a definitive answer to that. Its to me blatant inequality. Of course either male or females should be allowed to accompany their child into a changing room. I've done it but always in a gender neutral environment or used a cubical. As far as these two examples the finger should be pointed at those in charge for poor leadership. Also tbh in a world where there is blatant abuse of women rights and womens bodys every single day id view these examples as poor. Even here, how many single men have womens body parts displayed in their pictures. Have they sought permission to use and share that image ?? There's laws now regarding that. Its a criminal offence. We all can pull examples of inequality but as the father of daughters im sure your very aware of the gender norms pushed on women every day. Its not OK. Is it ok that our right to safe is not a given and we must go around in heightened states of awareness all the time ? Is it ok that only last week a victim of a serious sexual assault had to sit through a trial and listen to glowing character references of her convicted assailant. The bathroom thing is an issue if abused the examples I've given are the tip of the iceberg. I hope your get a definitive answer to your questions. I hope to get definitive answers to mine. Experiences as a woman tells me I wont
"To be fair there are plenty of single women’s profiles with men in them too so let’s not make a war out of that. Cherry picking won’t do any good and Reality was asking genuinely soft hearted questions for women’s thoughts Also, this is a man’s thread and we all know what wouldn’t happen if men butted in with opinions on a woman centred thread | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"I'm a feminist and this is feminism. Its equality for all genders, races and sexual orientations. We can't have equal rights for one and not the other. The world has changed dramatically, traditional male roles aren't as viable as they were. For some this is a big issue. Some will become toxic about their masculinity but others will fight to be accepted as they are. I stand with men who want to be accepted as themselves as opposed to gender normative stereotypes. I hope these men will stand alongside the women who fight for the same levels of equality. Really lovely piece and I'd love to know the author
This is a genuine question for any feminist. It's not a shitstirring question but an attempt to understand previous experiences and I've never found anyone who can give a definitive answer.
Standing in a men's changing room at a local swimming pool one evening a woman walked in with her son who was 8 or 9 years old and proceeded to get him changed. She was asked to leave by the men in the communal area and refused saying she had every right to be there in order to protect her son. Every man in that room had a child getting swimming lessons and those like me with young girls had either allowed them to go into the women's changing rooms alone or used the other locked cubicles.
A major row erupted and a man challenged the staff to remove her but they refused. He then asked what would happen if he had done likewise in the woman's area. He was told he would be asked to leave and if he didn't they would call the police.
On another occasion in an hotel in Clones on Ulster Final day numerous women invaded the gents toilets without reprisal but when one man voiced his disappointment with the lack of action by the Guards and walked into the ladies he was arrested.
Just two of a number of similar incidents so my question is where was the equality there?
I'm all for equal rights as should be obvious by my previous comments in this and other threads so I would appreciate similar respect in any replies.
With all due respect to you I don't have a definitive answer to that. Its to me blatant inequality. Of course either male or females should be allowed to accompany their child into a changing room. I've done it but always in a gender neutral environment or used a cubical. As far as these two examples the finger should be pointed at those in charge for poor leadership. Also tbh in a world where there is blatant abuse of women rights and womens bodys every single day id view these examples as poor. Even here, how many single men have womens body parts displayed in their pictures. Have they sought permission to use and share that image ?? There's laws now regarding that. Its a criminal offence. We all can pull examples of inequality but as the father of daughters im sure your very aware of the gender norms pushed on women every day. Its not OK. Is it ok that our right to safe is not a given and we must go around in heightened states of awareness all the time ? Is it ok that only last week a victim of a serious sexual assault had to sit through a trial and listen to glowing character references of her convicted assailant. The bathroom thing is an issue if abused the examples I've given are the tip of the iceberg. I hope your get a definitive answer to your questions. I hope to get definitive answers to mine. Experiences as a woman tells me I wont
The biggest issue I see with conversations like these are that everyone can only draw on their own experiences.
Asking people to change and to do more for women's rights is fine and well but quite often in my experience as a man I've seen other men ask how they can help and getting abuse simply for asking.
It's one thing asking men to see things from a woman's perspective but how do you expect them to do that if you tell them not to ask stupid questions or to simply open their eyes?
Of course my examples are minor in the grand scheme of things but then again not every woman is a victim or feels victimised.
You can't ask for help and then slap the hand that is offered.
The answer to every question about equality doesn't have to involve the word victim.
While your points are valid ill correct you on your use of the word victim. This young woman was a victim of a horrendous crime which im prevented from saying here. Women, black and brown people, lgbtq+ community have been victims of a society that is centered around the cis white male, "the patriarchy". I love to educate, inform anyone about the gender bias in our society, but for some with all the privilege they don't or won't see it. The examples I've given are examples of a male driven society but not presented in a way that you are accepting of them. There is inequality everywhere and the term open your eyes is as much a metaphorical term as it is a physical term. Sometimes the best thing to do with information is to sit with it quietly and think about whats been said. Is this a society we want our daughters growing up in, our sons growing up in ?? Or do we want better for them ?
We need a society where we truly listen. Its not shouty women going off on one. This a community of intelligent, articulate people saying im not accepting inequality anymore and doing it in a vocal way across all forms of media. I've given you examples, I've used the word victim because its relevant, its true. There isn't another way to truthfully describe it. As a another human please don't rewrite the experiences of others. Accept whats been said and from there you'll learn. As a pointer, this is written with passion but never a raised voice. "I think you’re missing the entire point of this thread and you’re making it about women and yourself The title should be a clue  | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"I'm a feminist and this is feminism. Its equality for all genders, races and sexual orientations. We can't have equal rights for one and not the other. The world has changed dramatically, traditional male roles aren't as viable as they were. For some this is a big issue. Some will become toxic about their masculinity but others will fight to be accepted as they are. I stand with men who want to be accepted as themselves as opposed to gender normative stereotypes. I hope these men will stand alongside the women who fight for the same levels of equality. Really lovely piece and I'd love to know the author
This is a genuine question for any feminist. It's not a shitstirring question but an attempt to understand previous experiences and I've never found anyone who can give a definitive answer.
Standing in a men's changing room at a local swimming pool one evening a woman walked in with her son who was 8 or 9 years old and proceeded to get him changed. She was asked to leave by the men in the communal area and refused saying she had every right to be there in order to protect her son. Every man in that room had a child getting swimming lessons and those like me with young girls had either allowed them to go into the women's changing rooms alone or used the other locked cubicles.
A major row erupted and a man challenged the staff to remove her but they refused. He then asked what would happen if he had done likewise in the woman's area. He was told he would be asked to leave and if he didn't they would call the police.
On another occasion in an hotel in Clones on Ulster Final day numerous women invaded the gents toilets without reprisal but when one man voiced his disappointment with the lack of action by the Guards and walked into the ladies he was arrested.
Just two of a number of similar incidents so my question is where was the equality there?
I'm all for equal rights as should be obvious by my previous comments in this and other threads so I would appreciate similar respect in any replies.
With all due respect to you I don't have a definitive answer to that. Its to me blatant inequality. Of course either male or females should be allowed to accompany their child into a changing room. I've done it but always in a gender neutral environment or used a cubical. As far as these two examples the finger should be pointed at those in charge for poor leadership. Also tbh in a world where there is blatant abuse of women rights and womens bodys every single day id view these examples as poor. Even here, how many single men have womens body parts displayed in their pictures. Have they sought permission to use and share that image ?? There's laws now regarding that. Its a criminal offence. We all can pull examples of inequality but as the father of daughters im sure your very aware of the gender norms pushed on women every day. Its not OK. Is it ok that our right to safe is not a given and we must go around in heightened states of awareness all the time ? Is it ok that only last week a victim of a serious sexual assault had to sit through a trial and listen to glowing character references of her convicted assailant. The bathroom thing is an issue if abused the examples I've given are the tip of the iceberg. I hope your get a definitive answer to your questions. I hope to get definitive answers to mine. Experiences as a woman tells me I wont
The biggest issue I see with conversations like these are that everyone can only draw on their own experiences.
Asking people to change and to do more for women's rights is fine and well but quite often in my experience as a man I've seen other men ask how they can help and getting abuse simply for asking.
It's one thing asking men to see things from a woman's perspective but how do you expect them to do that if you tell them not to ask stupid questions or to simply open their eyes?
Of course my examples are minor in the grand scheme of things but then again not every woman is a victim or feels victimised.
You can't ask for help and then slap the hand that is offered.
The answer to every question about equality doesn't have to involve the word victim.
While your points are valid ill correct you on your use of the word victim. This young woman was a victim of a horrendous crime which im prevented from saying here. Women, black and brown people, lgbtq+ community have been victims of a society that is centered around the cis white male, "the patriarchy". I love to educate, inform anyone about the gender bias in our society, but for some with all the privilege they don't or won't see it. The examples I've given are examples of a male driven society but not presented in a way that you are accepting of them. There is inequality everywhere and the term open your eyes is as much a metaphorical term as it is a physical term. Sometimes the best thing to do with information is to sit with it quietly and think about whats been said. Is this a society we want our daughters growing up in, our sons growing up in ?? Or do we want better for them ?
We need a society where we truly listen. Its not shouty women going off on one. This a community of intelligent, articulate people saying im not accepting inequality anymore and doing it in a vocal way across all forms of media. I've given you examples, I've used the word victim because its relevant, its true. There isn't another way to truthfully describe it. As a another human please don't rewrite the experiences of others. Accept whats been said and from there you'll learn. As a pointer, this is written with passion but never a raised voice.
I think you’re missing the entire point of this thread and you’re making it about women and yourself
The title should be a clue "100% | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| Post new Message to Thread |
| back to top |  |
