Join us FREE, we're FREE to use
Web's largest swingers site since 2006.
Already registered?
Login here
Join us FREE, we're FREE to use
Web's largest swingers site since 2006.
Already registered?
Login here
 | Back to forum list |
| Back to Ireland |
| Jump to newest |  |
 | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"I don't really follow the premise of the question, because like - what am I going to do if I decide I'm no longer willing to "live in lockdown"? Kill myself? I have no control over the government's lockdown measures, all I can do is decide to not follow guidelines, go where I like, not wear a mask and take my chances re getting Covid or spreading Covid. But I'd still be living under lockdown, ie WFH, no pubs, mandatory social distancing etc. So it's not really a matter of being willing to do it... It's happening whether I'm willing or not. That said, my own inconvenience is less important to me than protecting vulnerable people. I'll keep adhering to guidelines as long as I need to or until there's a vaccine because. " Don't like the choice of phrase you used , as an alternative to lockdown. As someone who has had that thought in my early years. I hate seeing it put to text or even heard. Although each time I do see or hear it , i thank my luky stars | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Oh yes I don't mind doing the things at all. I have not and still dont. I am worried for those who are at risk...but many of those could not go on as long as you say...even if I lived for 20 years...2 years in lockdown away from family is 1/10th of my life do you get what I am saying. I am fine I just hope there is not huge regrets at the end for people. I do think it's a small bit weird that no one gave a crap before when all the other possible 200 viruses were going about. It does a appear a domino effect happened to the system. Every single resource should be placed on those at risk i.e nursing homes, hospitals etc. So you don't belive there could be a point when every effect of the lockdown is worse than the disease with a 0.2% death rate? I assume the health department know this of course. I had heard a man working for John Hopkins University speak on this...and they are who everyone pulls there stats from. I guess time will tell. " You keep saying lockdown but other than dublin the country isn't in lockdown... People can still socialise, get out in the air, go for meals etc.... I feel terrible for people who had to cancel weddings, communions, kids who are adjusting to new school environments 1st year collage students missing getting to know their new class things like that, but of you need to go clubbing to connect with friends somethings amiss in the first place | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"One of the things people forget at times when comparing covid to flu is that it hasn't replaced flu. So an unrestricted flu season in addition to covid also filling up beds and services in hospital would likely see the death rate of both rise. We are likely to see a decrease in flu cases and deaths this year as the lost vulnerable will be alot more cautious and be following social distancing guidelines. Flu is also seasonal covid appears not to be. So yes we don't take the precautions we possibly could woth flu but we also know after March April it will stop killing people " Yes for sure I think about that and am kind of playing devil's advocate slightly here. There are always some new flu thing lying about there are so many people generally die from them. I was sick recently and though woah...that's probably how I am going to go. and yes now another to add to the pile. It's dangerous that is for sure.... But have we gotten better at dealing with it?. Did we set up things that can help deal with that surge?. My question is to people such as the lady above in the thread. Would you live like this for 10 years? 20? Irespextive of risk? Or I mean expect those at the end of there life to live like that. Is there a point or do you follow it blindly forever. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"One of the things people forget at times when comparing covid to flu is that it hasn't replaced flu. So an unrestricted flu season in addition to covid also filling up beds and services in hospital would likely see the death rate of both rise. We are likely to see a decrease in flu cases and deaths this year as the lost vulnerable will be alot more cautious and be following social distancing guidelines. Flu is also seasonal covid appears not to be. So yes we don't take the precautions we possibly could woth flu but we also know after March April it will stop killing people Yes for sure I think about that and am kind of playing devil's advocate slightly here. There are always some new flu thing lying about there are so many people generally die from them. I was sick recently and though woah...that's probably how I am going to go. and yes now another to add to the pile. It's dangerous that is for sure.... But have we gotten better at dealing with it?. Did we set up things that can help deal with that surge?. My question is to people such as the lady above in the thread. Would you live like this for 10 years? 20? Irespextive of risk? Or I mean expect those at the end of there life to live like that. Is there a point or do you follow it blindly forever. " 10 years no probably not. But I think there would be a hugely changed landscape even beyond next summer if a breakthrough wasn't in sight. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"And re rewards outweighing the risk - I don't think that the reward of going to the pub / office / seeing my friends / a foreign holiday outweighs the risk of someone else dying, no matter how old they are or what pre-existing conditions they have. It's not my place to decide what value someone else's life has. " Yeas those things don't matter to me. So we agree. But someone else's life was always at risk before but people still went to work/school/etc sick | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
 | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Covid does not scare me. I have worked all through it and now get tested weekly. What is for me will not go by me. I wear a mask when need be and wash hands more often but refuse to put life on hold. The common sense approach goes a long way." You get tested weekly? Is that due to your work? I didnt think they would even allow that for healthy, asymptomatic people | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Covid does not scare me. I have worked all through it and now get tested weekly. What is for me will not go by me. I wear a mask when need be and wash hands more often but refuse to put life on hold. The common sense approach goes a long way. You get tested weekly? Is that due to your work? I didnt think they would even allow that for healthy, asymptomatic people " Yes due to my job i get tested on a Wednesday | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"One of the things people forget at times when comparing covid to flu is that it hasn't replaced flu. So an unrestricted flu season in addition to covid also filling up beds and services in hospital would likely see the death rate of both rise. We are likely to see a decrease in flu cases and deaths this year as the lost vulnerable will be alot more cautious and be following social distancing guidelines. Flu is also seasonal covid appears not to be. So yes we don't take the precautions we possibly could woth flu but we also know after March April it will stop killing people Yes for sure I think about that and am kind of playing devil's advocate slightly here. There are always some new flu thing lying about there are so many people generally die from them. I was sick recently and though woah...that's probably how I am going to go. and yes now another to add to the pile. It's dangerous that is for sure.... But have we gotten better at dealing with it?. Did we set up things that can help deal with that surge?. My question is to people such as the lady above in the thread. Would you live like this for 10 years? 20? Irespextive of risk? Or I mean expect those at the end of there life to live like that. Is there a point or do you follow it blindly forever. 10 years no probably not. But I think there would be a hugely changed landscape even beyond next summer if a breakthrough wasn't in sight." Of course it won't be 10 years..but people lived in a bubble for 10 years...but most at risk people are only gonna live for 5 any way....out on top of that job losses missed appointments all the things. There seems a lot more emerging. The cure must not be worse than the disease. I am not saying anything is wrong with what we have done...but we need to reevaluate constantly. I for see even if it disappeared tomorrow we will have a similar level of cleaning and masks. This will become the norm as other illness will take the for front. And yes there will be less flu deaths as covid would have gotten it | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Covid does not scare me. I have worked all through it and now get tested weekly. What is for me will not go by me. I wear a mask when need be and wash hands more often but refuse to put life on hold. The common sense approach goes a long way." Yes. Agreed. My cousin wouldn't allow my aunt to leave her house. Even though there was no chance of getting it in the open air...like a park. The fear got to such a high level. And I understand it. But we need to work in reality at times. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"COVID is more highly transmissiable virus than the Flu so if COVID was left to run unmitigated you would see alot higher mortality rates amongst the vunerable elderly population than we are seeing right now and during the worst Flu seasons. Personally, although it can be restrictive and a pain some times i am happy to follow the guidelines to try reduce virus spreading, keeping ICU admissions down, healthcare system functioning and the people mentioned above, alive. How long for? Who knows but for now i am putting vunerable people first before my own needs "Well it would actually take everyone getting infected to know the true death rate. But modules suggest and from places like south Korea that had the best testing 0.2 is the likely death rate. With a huge number of those being people of advanced age and with 1.6 comorbidities. Agreed with all the rest you said. It's obviously not nothing. But there needs to be thought give to those at risk that will not live incredibly long. What if it seasonal like the flu. That it will jutate and the vaccine only works in some case. People will have to live the rest of there lives I guess. But yes for now we keep trucking. So... 6 people 2 households. Still sounds like a great orgy | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Covid does not scare me. I have worked all through it and now get tested weekly. What is for me will not go by me. I wear a mask when need be and wash hands more often but refuse to put life on hold. The common sense approach goes a long way. You get tested weekly? Is that due to your work? I didnt think they would even allow that for healthy, asymptomatic people Yes due to my job i get tested on a Wednesday" Do you know, or can anyone tell me how the test works? I understand a swab is taken and tested, but what exactly is the test? | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Covid does not scare me. I have worked all through it and now get tested weekly. What is for me will not go by me. I wear a mask when need be and wash hands more often but refuse to put life on hold. The common sense approach goes a long way. You get tested weekly? Is that due to your work? I didnt think they would even allow that for healthy, asymptomatic people Yes due to my job i get tested on a Wednesday Do you know, or can anyone tell me how the test works? I understand a swab is taken and tested, but what exactly is the test? " It's a PCR test. It basicly duplicates the genetic material found until there are many copies which brings it up to a level that can be detected. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"0.2 is 20% of 1%, not 2% of 1% Also, I'm not sure where you are getting your figures from as I'm hearing the mortality rate is around 3% vs 0.1% for the flu. That's a lot more than double the rate" Oh yes apolagies very true it is 20% of 1% One source was a scientist from John hopkins university..he actually predelicted this early on and seems like it will be right. South Korea seemed like a good indicator and they have models to predict how many might be going in diagnosed etc . Current mortality rate would be this because of the low amount of confirmed cases vs actual cases. i.e if 80 get it 2 die but 200+ people actually have. If you get me. They predict 0.2 to 0.3 in the end. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Covid does not scare me. I have worked all through it and now get tested weekly. What is for me will not go by me. I wear a mask when need be and wash hands more often but refuse to put life on hold. The common sense approach goes a long way. You get tested weekly? Is that due to your work? I didnt think they would even allow that for healthy, asymptomatic people Yes due to my job i get tested on a Wednesday Do you know, or can anyone tell me how the test works? I understand a swab is taken and tested, but what exactly is the test? It's a PCR test. It basicly duplicates the genetic material found until there are many copies which brings it up to a level that can be detected. " Spot in and scientifically correct | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Covid does not scare me. I have worked all through it and now get tested weekly. What is for me will not go by me. I wear a mask when need be and wash hands more often but refuse to put life on hold. The common sense approach goes a long way. You get tested weekly? Is that due to your work? I didnt think they would even allow that for healthy, asymptomatic people Yes due to my job i get tested on a Wednesday Do you know, or can anyone tell me how the test works? I understand a swab is taken and tested, but what exactly is the test? It's a PCR test. It basicly duplicates the genetic material found until there are many copies which brings it up to a level that can be detected. " Thank you for that and apologies if my question was unclear. What is meant is how does it work? I don't mean the general idea, but what actually happens in practical terms? How is the genetic material identified and duplicated? | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Plenty of technical info here if you REALLY wanna delve into the details. https://www.medicinenet.com/pcr_polymerase_chain_reaction/article.htm There are several trpes of tests, some test for how the body reacts to the virus and so looks for an immune response... but PCR testing looks for the actual virus in the sample. " Thank you for that link, will look at it next. As it happens, I do want to understand how it works, otherwise I'd feel I'm just dereffing to what we're told/hear/read, and I think history has a good number of examples of that being a slippery slope. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"John Hopkins actual mortality rates are linked. https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/data/mortality" Yes this is the CFR. While I am referring to predicted IFR. So not the now tested people vs deaths...but total infections vs deaths Estimating mortality from COVID-19 https://www.who.int/news-room/commentaries/detail/estimating-mortality-from-covid-19 I was just looking at a page where the WHO itself are saying current CFR is 3% but IFR would be much lower. Even at 0.2 or 0.3 my point is not that it is not bad. I am asking how long would you live in this way. If someone had on there clock a few years to live...but because they are at risk they can't live as they normally would. And spend the remainder of there days or a huge percentage not enjoying it. Or other mental health aspects pulling up. Job loss's etc etc. Is there a point where it's not justified. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"John Hopkins actual mortality rates are linked. https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/data/mortality Yes this is the CFR. While I am referring to predicted IFR. So not the now tested people vs deaths...but total infections vs deaths Estimating mortality from COVID-19 https://www.who.int/news-room/commentaries/detail/estimating-mortality-from-covid-19 I was just looking at a page where the WHO itself are saying current CFR is 3% but IFR would be much lower. Even at 0.2 or 0.3 my point is not that it is not bad. I am asking how long would you live in this way. If someone had on there clock a few years to live...but because they are at risk they can't live as they normally would. And spend the remainder of there days or a huge percentage not enjoying it. Or other mental health aspects pulling up. Job loss's etc etc. Is there a point where it's not justified." That's very interesting. Would it not make sense to test everyone and look at genetic, dietary, lifestyle differences etc between infected symptomatic and infected asymptomatic? | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
 | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Covid does not scare me. I have worked all through it and now get tested weekly. What is for me will not go by me. I wear a mask when need be and wash hands more often but refuse to put life on hold. The common sense approach goes a long way. You get tested weekly? Is that due to your work? I didnt think they would even allow that for healthy, asymptomatic people Yes due to my job i get tested on a Wednesday Do you know, or can anyone tell me how the test works? I understand a swab is taken and tested, but what exactly is the test? " You brush the swab down the back of your throat on either side. The same swab goes high up one nostril then into a test tube filled with some solution and sent away. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"IFR seems to be incredibly difficult to calculate. There is a WHO paper which is designed to aid countries in estimating it. They say... "To measure IFR accurately, a complete picture of the number of infections of, and deaths caused by, the disease must be known. Consequently, at this early stage of the pandemic, most estimates of fatality ratios have been based on cases detected through surveillance and calculated using crude methods, giving rise to widely variable estimates of CFR by country – from less than 0.1% to over 25" Source https://www.who.int/news-room/commentaries/detail/estimating-mortality-from-covid-19 I don't think we are in a position yet to get an accurate IFR.. and so to make conparisons with regards lethality compared to other diseases like the flu is very difficult to do accurately." I got some of the idea from the guy from John Hopkins university. If you search on YouTube Sam Harris making sense ep 192 I think, he is on it saying it's likely to be around these numbers. 0.3 etc. I guess he works with these things all the time, so his opinion carrys some weight. That was long ago now would like to hear his opinion now. My point was perhaps less clear but not all around that number. It was more what this guy thinks about when asked about restrictions. And he says something along the lines. The cure can be worse than the disease. We need a way to calculate the problems caused by a lockdown senario causing more problems and even deaths than the IFR. It's hard to know the IFR now as you say. I until the end. But for now we can go with the people in the know I suppose | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Lol we found the same paper, but came to different conclusions "Hahaha ahh yes perhaps. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"IFR seems to be incredibly difficult to calculate. There is a WHO paper which is designed to aid countries in estimating it. They say... "To measure IFR accurately, a complete picture of the number of infections of, and deaths caused by, the disease must be known. Consequently, at this early stage of the pandemic, most estimates of fatality ratios have been based on cases detected through surveillance and calculated using crude methods, giving rise to widely variable estimates of CFR by country – from less than 0.1% to over 25" Source https://www.who.int/news-room/commentaries/detail/estimating-mortality-from-covid-19 I don't think we are in a position yet to get an accurate IFR.. and so to make conparisons with regards lethality compared to other diseases like the flu is very difficult to do accurately. I got some of the idea from the guy from John Hopkins university. If you search on YouTube Sam Harris making sense ep 192 I think, he is on it saying it's likely to be around these numbers. 0.3 etc. I guess he works with these things all the time, so his opinion carrys some weight. That was long ago now would like to hear his opinion now. My point was perhaps less clear but not all around that number. It was more what this guy thinks about when asked about restrictions. And he says something along the lines. The cure can be worse than the disease. We need a way to calculate the problems caused by a lockdown senario causing more problems and even deaths than the IFR. It's hard to know the IFR now as you say. I until the end. But for now we can go with the people in the know I suppose "Can't disagree that the cure could well be worse than the disease. It's the other diseases that are left undiagnosed and untreated, plus the mental health downsides that need to be accounted for. It would take a strong politician to stick his neck out and make that kind of call. Something we don't have. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| Post new Message to Thread |
| back to top |  |
