FabSwingers.com forum: "Ireland is racist"

By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

I see this cropping up a lot lately . I definitely do think there is a growing visibilty of racist comments both online and in day to day life.

I guess for me I wonder about blanket statements like this.

What is the metric to make that statement ? Is it assumed 20%/50%/80% are racist ?

From my perspective then I wonder what counts as racism ?

Why is an objective assessment often lumped with a racist tag ? There are practices in all cultures that can probably be criticised from the outside in.

Be it a majority or minority culture sutely nothing is beyond criticism.

I think it's important for people to assess how much their individuality is dictated by their culture etc.

I'm specifically not naming any types of classifications as it's just a gneral point.

For me.. as individuals and as groups it is important to grow and to develop and being able to take constructive criticism is surely a part of that.

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By *ilthyNightsCouple
over a year ago

East / North, Cork

All countries have racist elements of course. I do believe Ireland is struggling with a larger racist element than many others though. I think it's because of the recent influx of Polish/Romanian migrants, and the fear of those that are different to the (perceived) indigenous Irish.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Im.not racist

I have licked pussy from all aroun the world

And enjoyed everyone

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

[Removed by poster at 21/09/20 07:22:45]

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"All countries have racist elements of course. I do believe Ireland is struggling with a larger racist element than many others though. I think it's because of the recent influx of Polish/Romanian migrants, and the fear of those that are different to the (perceived) indigenous Irish. "

Groundbreaking statement.

Who'd have though that????

To think the irish people don't trust people from other countries when they can't even trust each other half the time. And yet have elected the governments they've done so over the last 30 years.

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By *hivers2020Woman
over a year ago

lolli land

There’s very obvious racism and then subtle racism. For me, there is a difference between intent and perception. For example:

I was at a bus stop, a beautiful black girl was in front of me and a white irish lad off to the side. He kept glancing at her, very obviously as even j noticed. I didn’t think anything of it. She got annoyed and shouted at him “stop staring at me, have you never seen a black person before” she was really angry and upset. He replied “yeah I have, lots, but none as beautiful as you” so she perceived his glances to be hateful but his intent was admiration. So she perceived him as racist and if she had not of said anything, she would have gone off thinking that.

So makes me wonder if me, as a white majority, just doesn’t understand what it’s like to be a minority?

Also Ireland is the only place where your hated because of where you live, growing up you hated the next town over. During the football etc you hate the next county over etc etc. But when you meet another irish person abroad? Bezzies for life! We’re a strange little country

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"There’s very obvious racism and then subtle racism. For me, there is a difference between intent and perception. For example:

So makes me wonder if me, as a white majority, just doesn’t understand what it’s like to be a minority?

So did he get to sit beside her on the bus ??

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By *hilaboutMan
over a year ago

kilkenny

Ah it is what it is ..too much being made out of all this racism subject ..alot looking for a sympathy vote

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By *hivers2020Woman
over a year ago

lolli land

"There’s very obvious racism and then subtle racism. For me, there is a difference between intent and perception. For example:

So makes me wonder if me, as a white majority, just doesn’t understand what it’s like to be a minority?

So did he get to sit beside her on the bus ??

He got on a different bus

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"There’s very obvious racism and then subtle racism. For me, there is a difference between intent and perception. For example:

So makes me wonder if me, as a white majority, just doesn’t understand what it’s like to be a minority?

So did he get to sit beside her on the bus ??

He got on a different bus

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By *ilthyNightsCouple
over a year ago

East / North, Cork

"Ah it is what it is ..too much being made out of all this racism subject ..alot looking for a sympathy vote"

Thats easy said when it's not directed at you.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I know dozens of Polish lads and besides the dislike of some Irish people towards them, of the ones I know they're extremely racist towards themselves.

Besides this I do think Ireland has a distrust for foreigners but I definitely do not think we have a big racism problem. I would say almost every country in Europe besides maybe the Scandinavian ones have bigger problems. America and Australia too and to flip this all upside down African countries too.

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By *he English OneMan
over a year ago

west

Hey look there is racism in every country no point just pointing out 1 nation its a cruel world we live in unfortunately

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I know dozens of Polish lads and besides the dislike of some Irish people towards them, of the ones I know they're extremely racist towards themselves.

I meant extremely racism themselves not towards themselves

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By *uriousVoyeurMan
over a year ago

Northside

Us Irish have a built in mistrust of everyone. Its like we assume everyone is a cute hoor and always trying to get one over on us! So when a foreign national arrives, especially from countries where the population are viewed as "schemer's" we automatically don't trust them. I think in a lot of cases this is seen as racism. Maybe it is!! On a thread here recently a lot of people of various nationalities stated that they found it very difficult to make friends with Irish people. We're very friendly but don't like making friends! There are racists everywhere, including here, but I honestly think as a whole we just don't trust anyone, regardless of where they're from. Does that make us racist?? Or just ignorant???

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Tbh I think these conversations have got to be led by Black people or POC if they're to be of any value whatsoever. Otherwise it's just a group of White people sitting around pontificating without actually taking anti-racism actions.

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By *asterandhissparklesCouple
over a year ago

tipperary

My 2 cents.. I am Italian and I have to admit that no, Irish are not racists.

Of course, there are racists but I can say italians overall are much more racists than Irish.

My personal experience is this one... There are racist/idiots/criminals etc in every Country but my last 14 years in this beautiful Country can let me happily say that I have never felt discriminated.

Thank you Ireland.

Thank you Irish People.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I do think a lot of Irish people have racist attitudes. One reason is that we are a small country on the edge of Europe and have very little immigration or even visitors from abroad up until the 90's. And Irish people often like to feel the victim and have a need to blame others for their problems or misfortune. And immigrants or people who are different are an easy outlet for someone they can have a go at or blame.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"My 2 cents.. I am Italian and I have to admit that no, Irish are not racists.

Of course, there are racists but I can say italians overall are much more racists than Irish.

Thank you Ireland.

Thank you Irish People.

As a white man you're not really in a position to make that judgement.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I do think a lot of Irish people have racist attitudes. One reason is that we are a small country on the edge of Europe and have very little immigration or even visitors from abroad up until the 90's. And Irish people often like to feel the victim and have a need to blame others for their problems or misfortune. And immigrants or people who are different are an easy outlet for someone they can have a go at or blame. "

Pretty much sums it up

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By *asterandhissparklesCouple
over a year ago

tipperary

"As a white man you're not really in a position to make that judgement. "

Right... Cause racism is only if you are Black?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"My 2 cents.. I am Italian and I have to admit that no, Irish are not racists.

Of course, there are racists but I can say italians overall are much more racists than Irish.

Thank you Ireland.

Thank you Irish People.

As a white man you're not really in a position to make that judgement. "

Damn white men

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I think all have racist tendencies.

Its funny how in times of economical or social unrest these things come to the front of peoples thoughts and actions.

But is such a wide range that it's pretty much pointless trying to decide what Countries are and are not racist

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Not a racist

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By *emper-fudgeMan
over a year ago

Blackrock

Feckin Greeks!

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By *1CorkCouple
over a year ago

Cork

Ireland is classist.

Immigrants and disadvantaged Irish communities are pitted against each other in competition for low pay employment, welfare, health services and housing... little wonder this distrust and fear manifests in overt racism.

Same old story through the ages and worldwide.

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By *he English OneMan
over a year ago

west

"Feckin Greeks!"

It's not the greeks it's the Chinese he's after

(Fr Ted quote not mine)

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By *aid backMan
over a year ago

by a lake with my rod out

What have the Romans ever done for us ?? ( Life of Brian reference before people think I hate Romans)

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By *aid backMan
over a year ago

by a lake with my rod out

Is say Ireland is more xenophobic than racist. What you hear most is " it's not fair that they come here and get houses before our own etc etc etc" this is normally spouted by people who are 3rd 4th generation dole merchants who think foreigners are trying to mooching in on their racket.

It's the same with these Patriot groups (read as far right) they blame everyones problem on other people that are not Irish etc. Is common denominator politics

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Is say Ireland is more xenophobic than racist. What you hear most is " it's not fair that they come here and get houses before our own etc etc etc" this is normally spouted by people who are 3rd 4th generation dole merchants who think foreigners are trying to mooching in on their racket.

It's the same with these Patriot groups (read as far right) they blame everyones problem on other people that are not Irish etc. Is common denominator politics"

The easiest way to unite people is to provide them with a common enemy, the politics of fear.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"As a white man you're not really in a position to make that judgement.

Right... Cause racism is only if you are Black?

No, but in a country that is predominantly white, you're not very likely to be a victim of racism if you are also white...

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By *inxnmasterCouple
over a year ago

naughty valley

Everyone has heard the phrase “I am not a racists but....” Some people here have even used it .

The dislike of foreigners like the common apathy towards Eastern Europeans is rather xenophobere than racist . It maybe mentioned that these migrants often follow the same mistake Irish migrants use to do : “ Stick with your own kind of people “ . This doesn’t help the integration into their host countries. Those who break the pattern usually have no complaint about racism in Ireland .

That said, racism is born by the supremacy idea , a millennia old concept to make group members belong . Whether it is - we are from Cork , thus better than those people from Dublin or we are German and therefor superior than any of our neighbors or we are Catholics , Protestant , Jews , Muslims and it’s only us who follow the true god ....it’s all the same shit .

I have lived and worked in many countries and have been a migrant , a blow in , an external all my life . Though I am living in Ireland for years , even carrying Irish nationality I was never able to get a job in Ireland since I settled here, although I am good in what I do, so I continue working all over Europe . When at interviews it’s not the qualification which count but who you know and who you are related to or friends with . One could easily rate this as racist but it’s not ! It’s just small minded tribal behavior which is normal in countries with such small population where chances are that anyone is everyone’s cousin . And this again explains the root of the indigenous mistrust among themselves . With a history of hundreds of years struggling for survival , this island is entangled in clan filth and corruption at all levels of society till this day, to the extend that cousins rip each other off when things go bad economically . And of course it uses the blame pattern common all over the world . When things go bad it’s the foreigners to blame , the asylum seekers who come from war torn countries , the economic migrants ...well you know the stereotypes

Conclusion ; In general Ireland’s racists tendency are as good or as bad as anywhere else . I haven’t seen or heard of people being murdered in Ireland for their skin color . But I have seen the German mobs burning down asylum centers with the people in it . Or houses with the entire family of third generation migrants ..... I observed blatant white supremacy creeping out of its rat holes in England after the Brexit referendum .

I have seen Polish mobs chasing black migrants down the road in Gdansk .

I saw the racism of Buenos Aires where the race hierarchy is 1)White , 2)Mixed, 3) Black 4) dogs and at last native Americans

Compared to this I believe Ireland is still a country of red/blind / brunette haired fairies with naughty minds and of course a bunch of shy lads who want to get a leg over at the earliest convenience

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Im.not racist

I have licked pussy from all aroun the world

And enjoyed everyone"

Great to know ur not racist!!

But unfortunately you are prejudiced

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By *inxnmasterCouple
over a year ago

naughty valley

PS: Read red/ blond/ brunette at the last sentence

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I dont think there will ever be a world where assholes dont exist who discriminate against people who are different to them.

However, when you have assholes like Trump in power, tweeting racist shit on a daily basis, it lets racists know that it's ok to say these things without consequence.

I think there are probably less racists nowadays than there were a couple of years ago, but anyone who is racist, now realises that its ok again to act upon it.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

An increasing population means an increase in racism. I hear racial comments nearly everyday at work, it sickens me.

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By *ildb3rryWoman
over a year ago

Ratoath

An irish black friend of mine was looking at a room to rent as digs while at college.... the landlady showed her around and said about the kitchen, you can use it but not to make any of "your food" .... theres racism amd ignorance everywhere.... but that doesn't mean you could say ireland is racist ... definitely some are. Same as everywhere

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

Is there a healthy way to critique common practices by other cultures without it being taken as a race issue ?

If crittiquing within one's own culture it doesn't take on that significance.

For instance.. someone could be jewish and not agree with circumcision or female genital mutilation which is more commonplace in the followers of one religion than others. If someone isn't jewish they can be accused of being an anti-semite or if it is islam for instance with FGM... being an islamophobe whereas a more moderate muslim may indeed agree that FGM is barbaric .

The unwillingness to negotiate in honest discussion without being drawn to "that's racist" is to me a failure of critical thinking skills where because a group has been the subject of racism/xenophobia etc then it for some reason removes any accountability from issues within their cultures .

Certainly for clarity there is no shortage of issues within white western culture. The aim of the thread isn't to bash but how can we grow in societies that are becoming more diversified .

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By *oo32Man
over a year ago

tipperary

"My 2 cents.. I am Italian and I have to admit that no, Irish are not racists.

Of course, there are racists but I can say italians overall are much more racists than Irish.

Thank you Ireland.

Thank you Irish People.

As a white man you're not really in a position to make that judgement. "

Wtf.....

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

My personal belief is if you moved to a country then you obey the laws and customs of that country then I don’t have an issue but if you move to a country and break the law or start demanding changes because of your religious beliefs then I don’t want that person about how is that fair to the country that person has moved to...... apologies if this upset anyone but it’s how I personally feel about it

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By *urvySingleLadyWoman
over a year ago

Limerick/Galway

So did he get to sit beside her on the bus ??

He got on a different bus

I sincerely hope you’re not making a joke about segregation. Because if you are, that is absolutely disgusting.

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By *og-ManMan
over a year ago

somewhere

I feel I haven't a racist bone in my body

As an employer I've given jobs to every colour and creed

As a person I have a few black friends as have my kids

However I have a dislike of travellers

I'm sorry if I offend anyone but I think I'm genuinely not the only one that does on here so does that count as racist

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By *inkywife1981Couple
over a year ago

A town near you

"I feel I haven't a racist bone in my body

As an employer I've given jobs to every colour and creed

As a person I have a few black friends as have my kids

However I have a dislike of travellers

I'm sorry if I offend anyone but I think I'm genuinely not the only one that does on here so does that count as racist

They call prejudice to travellers acceptable racism as it's often over looked as it's so prevalent.

Unfortunately most peoples interactions with travellers are negative esp in rural Ireland.

Obviously good and bad in every creed.

Overall though I think were quite a tolerant little country.

How many other countries have had an openly gay son of an immigrant as their leader

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I rarely comment on controversial posts but I'm very passionate about this topic. English is my second language so I hope my opinion gets clearly to the ether

;-)

It has been proved that there are not biogenetically diferent "races". Therefore "races" are merely categorized by their cultural backround (and other aspects), so the modern racism, in my humble opinion, is just a way of judging and critiquing the different practices or ways of living and being of a determined group of people and those who discriminate and reject the different "races" do that based on their own fear and ignorance.

Racism isn't born it is taught, so stop teaching it, its pretty simple.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I feel I haven't a racist bone in my body

As an employer I've given jobs to every colour and creed

As a person I have a few black friends as have my kids

However I have a dislike of travellers

I'm sorry if I offend anyone but I think I'm genuinely not the only one that does on here so does that count as racist

Yes. It does.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"My 2 cents.. I am Italian and I have to admit that no, Irish are not racists.

Of course, there are racists but I can say italians overall are much more racists than Irish.

Thank you Ireland.

Thank you Irish People.

As a white man you're not really in a position to make that judgement.

Wtf....."

What?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I feel I haven't a racist bone in my body

As an employer I've given jobs to every colour and creed

As a person I have a few black friends as have my kids

However I have a dislike of travellers

I'm sorry if I offend anyone but I think I'm genuinely not the only one that does on here so does that count as racist

Yes. It does. "

Let's use your logic here

Unless you're an Irish Traveller you're not really in a position to make that judgement.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I feel I haven't a racist bone in my body

As an employer I've given jobs to every colour and creed

As a person I have a few black friends as have my kids

However I have a dislike of travellers

I'm sorry if I offend anyone but I think I'm genuinely not the only one that does on here so does that count as racist

Yes. It does.

Let's use your logic here

Unless you're an Irish Traveller you're not really in a position to make that judgement."

Lol no. This is a different situation to that. Don't worry. I'll explain it slowly for you so you can understand.

Bog Man has said he specifically dislikes Travellers and asked if that's racist. The other commenter made a blanket statement about how all minorities experience racism in Ireland.

One more time, a question versus a statement. Different.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Bookmarked for later reading.

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By *j47Man
over a year ago

limerick

"Us Irish have a built in mistrust of everyone. Its like we assume everyone is a cute hoor and always trying to get one over on us! So when a foreign national arrives, especially from countries where the population are viewed as "schemer's" we automatically don't trust them. I think in a lot of cases this is seen as racism. Maybe it is!! On a thread here recently a lot of people of various nationalities stated that they found it very difficult to make friends with Irish people. We're very friendly but don't like making friends! There are racists everywhere, including here, but I honestly think as a whole we just don't trust anyone, regardless of where they're from. Does that make us racist?? Or just ignorant??? "

Or cautious

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I feel I haven't a racist bone in my body

As an employer I've given jobs to every colour and creed

As a person I have a few black friends as have my kids

However I have a dislike of travellers

I'm sorry if I offend anyone but I think I'm genuinely not the only one that does on here so does that count as racist

Yes. It does.

Let's use your logic here

Unless you're an Irish Traveller you're not really in a position to make that judgement.

Lol no. This is a different situation to that. Don't worry. I'll explain it slowly for you so you can understand.

Bog Man has said he specifically dislikes Travellers and asked if that's racist. The other commenter made a blanket statement about how all minorities experience racism in Ireland.

One more time, a question versus a statement. Different. "

Oh condescension how original

Since that's the level you're pitching at there's little point in me continuing, good luck with your flawed logic

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"I feel I haven't a racist bone in my body

As an employer I've given jobs to every colour and creed

As a person I have a few black friends as have my kids

However I have a dislike of travellers

I'm sorry if I offend anyone but I think I'm genuinely not the only one that does on here so does that count as racist

Rather than berate you , I'm trying to understand . What is your dislike of travellers based on ?

I can honestly say in each job in each industry I have worked in .. the vast majority of interactions with travellers has been poor to say the least. From being caught robbing to threatening a colleague with a slash hook to another colleague having stones put through his car window while working. I don't think I can think of a single positive experience .

It's possible I have been extremely unlucky but the statistics showing how many are involved in crime etc would suggest not .

Out of a population of around 40,000 there is roughly 10% male prison population and 22% female prison population with a general population of about 0.6% .

I know a few gards personally and each of them would comment on the excessive crime rates in the community.

That all said.. there is a girl from Dublin I am friendly with who has a few female mates who are travellers and she absolutely adores them and has never had an issue with any of those girls. But....if she wants to call to them. The older members of the travelling community have to be gone before she can call as they don't approve of friendships with settled people as they are "more likely to be involved in drugs" and to be fair .... from an objective statistical point of view I can see why certain areas with extremely high drug use would be of concern to them .

The girl from Dublin has certainly softened my own perception of travellers where I wpuldn't have as strong opinion as before but I tend to see a lot of whataboutism when someone settled mentions issues within traveller culture.

Animal abuse... domestic violence.. control of women..etc

What I do find grim is how badly mental health services are failing travellers and tbh health services in general is something that could be commented when average life span is looked at compared to someone on average who is "settled".

An unemployment rate of about 85% and in a world moving heavily towards tech jobs it must be getting harder and harder for travellers who do want to work to get a job as the schooling system isn't able to provide the support that is needed for them.

Certainly I can see a domino effect of leaving school with no qualifications and finding it easy to slip into a life of crime. I don't condone the crimes but I do understand there is context to how these situations come about.

I would hope as time goes on there are much better mental health support services put in place... that programs that center on integration into wider society can be introducd.

As others have pointed out...by not knowing someone makes it easier to discriminate against them... rob.them...judge them.

I have seen lately some stuff online regarding LGBTQ issues in the travelling community and although there is a lot of opposition there is also a sizeable presence of travellers doing their very best to campaign for equality and I tip my hat to those who are willing to step outside their comfort zone to speak up..

It's so nuanced and very complex

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I feel I haven't a racist bone in my body

As an employer I've given jobs to every colour and creed

As a person I have a few black friends as have my kids

However I have a dislike of travellers

I'm sorry if I offend anyone but I think I'm genuinely not the only one that does on here so does that count as racist

Rather than berate you , I'm trying to understand . What is your dislike of travellers based on ?

It's possible I have been extremely unlucky but the statistics showing how many are involved in crime etc would suggest not .

Out of a population of around 40,000 there is roughly 10% male prison population and 22% female prison population with a general population of about 0.6% .

I know a few gards personally and each of them would comment on the excessive crime rates in the community.

Animal abuse... domestic violence.. control of women..etc

I would hope as time goes on there are much better mental health support services put in place... that programs that center on integration into wider society can be introducd.

As others have pointed out...by not knowing someone makes it easier to discriminate against them... rob.them...judge them.

It's so nuanced and very complex "

Of course the crime rates among Travellers are high. Nobody will hire them for decent jobs.

Of course the use of violence is more orevelant among Travellers us higher. Being hated and treated like dirt by your country will make you angry and aggressive.

Of course they have a high prison pop rate. They are disproportionately targeted by the guards (just like Black men in America) and convicted more easily with less evidence.

Any Irish person who says they're not racist but wouldn't trust a Traveller is either a liar, or is suffering from an accute lack of self awareness and a total lack of understanding of what racism is.

And anyone who uses statistics against Travellers or any minority group without being willing to ask what we as a country are doing to contribute to these statistics is intellictually lazy and morally bankrupt. We can do better than this!

(by the way OP, I'm not saying this about you specifically. I feel like you're actually being pretty honest and fairish.)

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By *og-ManMan
over a year ago

somewhere

Since you asked I'll only give examples of what effects me personally and not stuff you read in the papers or on the news

I have a settled travellers housing scheme about a 2km from my house

Its beside a very large GAA club and a river runs behind it

Other people on the forums who live near me probably know it

The river and the path running beside it gets destroyed every few months with one half of the scheme throwing all their rubbish over the wall to land on the footpath and in the river

The GAA pitch on the other side gets rubbish from the other half of the scheme thrown over it so the pitches get closed until their cleaned up

They say its settled people driving into their scheme and giving them a bad name but lets be honest they dont care

Our kids walk past the scheme coming from school and at one stage parents had to wait there till most school children had walked past as the travellers kids were coming out and robbing them and beating them up

The local petrol station gets swarmed by the travellers kids running in together ,robbing the place and running out again

The guards don't do anything because they are too young

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By *ocktailsdreamsMan
over a year ago

Edinburgh

"I feel I haven't a racist bone in my body

As an employer I've given jobs to every colour and creed

As a person I have a few black friends as have my kids

However I have a dislike of travellers

I'm sorry if I offend anyone but I think I'm genuinely not the only one that does on here so does that count as racist

Rather than berate you , I'm trying to understand . What is your dislike of travellers based on ?

It's possible I have been extremely unlucky but the statistics showing how many are involved in crime etc would suggest not .

Out of a population of around 40,000 there is roughly 10% male prison population and 22% female prison population with a general population of about 0.6% .

I know a few gards personally and each of them would comment on the excessive crime rates in the community.

Animal abuse... domestic violence.. control of women..etc

I would hope as time goes on there are much better mental health support services put in place... that programs that center on integration into wider society can be introducd.

As others have pointed out...by not knowing someone makes it easier to discriminate against them... rob.them...judge them.

It's so nuanced and very complex

Of course the crime rates among Travellers are high. Nobody will hire them for decent jobs.

Of course the use of violence is more orevelant among Travellers us higher. Being hated and treated like dirt by your country will make you angry and aggressive.

Of course they have a high prison pop rate. They are disproportionately targeted by the guards (just like Black men in America) and convicted more easily with less evidence.

(by the way OP, I'm not saying this about you specifically. I feel like you're actually being pretty honest and fairish.)"

this x

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"I feel I haven't a racist bone in my body

As an employer I've given jobs to every colour and creed

As a person I have a few black friends as have my kids

However I have a dislike of travellers

I'm sorry if I offend anyone but I think I'm genuinely not the only one that does on here so does that count as racist

Rather than berate you , I'm trying to understand . What is your dislike of travellers based on ?

It's possible I have been extremely unlucky but the statistics showing how many are involved in crime etc would suggest not .

Out of a population of around 40,000 there is roughly 10% male prison population and 22% female prison population with a general population of about 0.6% .

I know a few gards personally and each of them would comment on the excessive crime rates in the community.

Animal abuse... domestic violence.. control of women..etc

I would hope as time goes on there are much better mental health support services put in place... that programs that center on integration into wider society can be introducd.

As others have pointed out...by not knowing someone makes it easier to discriminate against them... rob.them...judge them.

It's so nuanced and very complex

Of course the crime rates among Travellers are high. Nobody will hire them for decent jobs.

Of course the use of violence is more orevelant among Travellers us higher. Being hated and treated like dirt by your country will make you angry and aggressive.

Of course they have a high prison pop rate. They are disproportionately targeted by the guards (just like Black men in America) and convicted more easily with less evidence.

(by the way OP, I'm not saying this about you specifically. I feel like you're actually being pretty honest and fairish.)"

You are totally entitled to air your opinion and I respect your right to hold it be it if you agree with me or think I am a bollox .

In terms of what we might call a decent job ...a lot do require a decent level of education achieved .. and a sizeable chunk require college education etc.

If I'm not mistaken I think 1 in 100 traveller women attened college .

Has education failed them ?

Has their own community failed them by pushing isolation from what would be considered more of a space for settled folks ?

These are just questions.. I don't have the data for the 99 that don't attend and again would imagine there is nuance to it.

I see the surface correlation with black people in America and travellers here but for me the causation is not the same.

The treatment of black people was underpinned by Jim Crow laws that enforced racial segregation especially in the southern states. The KKK with their burning crosses and nooses were and are a specific organisation that very much targeted African Americans and I'd imagine the death toll is disturbing if it was ever really known. The U.S constitution itself didnt recognise black people as full persons until the 13th amendment with the abolition of slavery.

Penal labor in the United States is explicitly allowed by the 13th Amendment of the U.S. Constitution: "Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction." So technically slavery still happens in prison in the U.S

There are countless examples of young black kids that have been charged far in excess of what yoing white kids get in relation to drugs . One of the biggest differences was the treatment of crack cocaine in African American communities as opposed to powder cocaine used by the elites. The disparity is mind boggling. The U.S prison system is riduclous how it treats people and to this day blacks are still very disproportionately sentenced..

A big issue being that state attorneys appointed to people who cannot afford their own are often have 1000+ cases a year and many put pressure on their clients to enter a guilty plea so to save time and get a lesser sentence than if found guilty by a jury. Counter intuitively many do actually plead guilty although some do get represented by the innocence project later on and cleared.

The problem here being that the U.S has the most dense prison population in the world with an average of 655 per 100,00.

To put into context the Irish rate is 84 per 100,000 people.

In 2019 according to the Irish prison service there was 8939 prisoners, of that there was 6276 males and 894 females in Irish prisons.

With the health complications I touched on in the previous post with regards to travellers comes a lower life expectancy and thus a lower % of people in the same age bracket as settled people.

With more travellers in % on thr younger side it means that with less % of population being of prison age.. it makes for even more grim reading.

I have come across travellers online as I said looking to make a difference in their communities and I wish them the very best. "White Irish" certainly has it's own set of issues also that should be resolved for a more progressive society for all.

We should all be treated equally under the law. Every person is different though and have different abilities...circumstances .. ideally.. education would provide a more equal template for kids to succeed regardless of home life.

The best we can do is hope.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

You're right that the story of the civil rights movement and the Travellers rights movement are different. Of course it should go without saying that every minority group has a unique historical experience and non are the same. But at the end of the day, racism is racism and the effects are ultimately universal. Poverty. Incarceration. Discrimination. Mental illness. Shorter life expectancies etc.

I think the best we can do is challenge our subconscious racist behaviour and the racist behaviour we see around us, in our friends and families and workplaces. This is extremely fucking difficult and uncomfortable and probably 50% of the time I chicken out and take the easy route of saying nothing so as not to cause a fuss or not to be labelled as a social justice warrior and have eyes rolled at me. But we should try anyway.

Anything less then that - just hope - is not only not enough, but it's facilitating racism on a macro level.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"You're right that the story of the civil rights movement and the Travellers rights movement are different. Of course it should go without saying that every minority group has a unique historical experience and non are the same. But at the end of the day, racism is racism and the effects are ultimately universal. Poverty. Incarceration. Discrimination. Mental illness. Shorter life expectancies etc.

Anything less then that - just hope - is not only not enough, but it's facilitating racism on a macro level. "

Just out of interest how do you think those uncomfortable conversations should take place about common practices that are harmful within other cultures without it being blocked down by the racist tag ?

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By *etergemmaCouple
over a year ago

South Dublin Area

Anything less then that - just hope - is not only not enough, but it's facilitating racism on a macro level. "
can you elaborate what you mean by sub conscious behavior? Is this purely to do with travellers? Or is it general rascism towards anyone thats not like you? Thanks

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"You are totally entitled to air your opinion and I respect your right to hold it be it if you agree with me or think I am a bollox .