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Learning French

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By *at69drive OP   Man
over a year ago

Hertford

I have enrolled in evening classes in order to become more fluent . I found that read a book in order to learn was not a very successfull approach for me .

I probably need a more disciplined learning approach with feedback from a trained tutor .

I hope that the classes actually start as they need a minimum of ten enrolled .

How did you learn and how long did it take to become fluent . ?

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By *enard ArgenteMan
over a year ago

London and France

You definitely need actual live lessons: you can't learn useful French from a book; best if the teacher is actually French too;

Problem is that even then, classes will teach you " proper" French; nothing wrong with that, and you can have reasonably sensible conversations in France, and many French will slow down and speak more precisely for you;

However, real conversational French that the French speak to each other ie in cafes, bars, in the street, is very different;

They speak quickly, slur words together, miss words or parts of words out, use slang, so to be truly fluent ( so that you can join in a " normal" conversation) you have to pick that up .

How long? Depends how easily you learn languages; some people have the " knack" some don't ; and if you have never learned a foreign language before, it is difficult.

I learned French to A level at school:

I later, in the course of my work, worked with French, and visited regularly, so got to practise it over several years, on and off;

In UK I was regarded as speaking " fluently".

I now live here permanently, when I arrived, I realised that though I could go most things ( discuss stuff in the tax office, the doctor's office, the town hall etc) I wasn't really fluent,

Two years on, i now am quite " fluent"; I can join in nearly any conversation, understand what it is about, get 90% of the nuances and emotions and opinions, and understand most of the " shortcuts" they use in speaking.

But that is because I am lucky to be able to pick up languages; and because I am immersed, and have lots of French freinds.

The first key stage where you will feel you are becoming fluent is the day you realise that you have stopped translating between English and French, and that you are actually thinking in French.

The next stage is when you actually forget which language you are speaking in. ( or don't notice which language). I am approaching that now.

The biggest difficulty is not actually saying stuff yourself; it's understanding what is being said to you;

But if you can understand how to express past, present, future, express needs and wants, and basic emotions ( happiness, displeasure, hopes) you can get by. Without being immersed, I would say you can do that from a standing start in 2 years, with regular lessons; however, find the French channels on the TV ( there several on satellite in UK) and try to watch French news ( because you can cross reference major events to UK news) and documentaries ; if you can watch at least 2 hours French TV a week, it will really help.

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By *at69drive OP   Man
over a year ago

Hertford


"You definitely need actual live lessons: you can't learn useful French from a book; best if the teacher is actually French too;

Problem is that even then, classes will teach you " proper" French; nothing wrong with that, and you can have reasonably sensible conversations in France, and many French will slow down and speak more precisely for you;

However, real conversational French that the French speak to each other ie in cafes, bars, in the street, is very different;

They speak quickly, slur words together, miss words or parts of words out, use slang, so to be truly fluent ( so that you can join in a " normal" conversation) you have to pick that up . Hi. Thanks for a very detailed and informed reply . I have a long way to go , especially as I do not pick things up very easily .

However ,I always get there in the end , so it will be a long hard slog.

How long? Depends how easily you learn languages; some people have the " knack" some don't ; and if you have never learned a foreign language before, it is difficult.

I learned French to A level at school:

I later, in the course of my work, worked with French, and visited regularly, so got to practise it over several years, on and off;

In UK I was regarded as speaking " fluently".

I now live here permanently, when I arrived, I realised that though I could go most things ( discuss stuff in the tax office, the doctor's office, the town hall etc) I wasn't really fluent,

Two years on, i now am quite " fluent"; I can join in nearly any conversation, understand what it is about, get 90% of the nuances and emotions and opinions, and understand most of the " shortcuts" they use in speaking.

But that is because I am lucky to be able to pick up languages; and because I am immersed, and have lots of French freinds.

The first key stage where you will feel you are becoming fluent is the day you realise that you have stopped translating between English and French, and that you are actually thinking in French.

The next stage is when you actually forget which language you are speaking in. ( or don't notice which language). I am approaching that now.

The biggest difficulty is not actually saying stuff yourself; it's understanding what is being said to you;

But if you can understand how to express past, present, future, express needs and wants, and basic emotions ( happiness, displeasure, hopes) you can get by. Without being immersed, I would say you can do that from a standing start in 2 years, with regular lessons; however, find the French channels on the TV ( there several on satellite in UK) and try to watch French news ( because you can cross reference major events to UK news) and documentaries ; if you can watch at least 2 hours French TV a week, it will really help.

"

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

nobody here will need to be fluent surely?

Its only a holiday language and its more fun trying to decipher what we are on about. body language and gestures all help.

If i could speak french as good as some chavs speak english i'll be quite happy.

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By *at69drive OP   Man
over a year ago

Hertford

Hi . Thanks for a very detailed and informative reply . It looks like it will be a long journey in order to become fluent .

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By *iam4Man
over a year ago

Chiswick

I originally had a French girlfriend, an approach I recommend. I think reading a French newspaper will be much more productive than a book. You might even know the subject of the article.

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By *enard ArgenteMan
over a year ago

London and France


"

Its only a holiday language ...."

Not if you are French....

Or if you live in France full time......

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I'm in France a lot with work, I get by but would love to be more fluent. My French is high school at best but I do pick stuff up quickly and remember when and how to use it. It's embarrassing how poor we in the UK are at languages.

It's an easier language, in my opinion, for Scots to learn as there are many similarities between French and the way Scots generally speak and pronounce words.

Every year I say 'I'm going to learn' then other stuff gets in the way.

F

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

We were in the Bodega bar and a French customer from Beziers was talking.

The staff said even they cannot understand him because of his accent.

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By *anickaCapDAgdeCouple
over a year ago

France


"We were in the Bodega bar and a French customer from Beziers was talking.

The staff said even they cannot understand him because of his accent."

Totally agree. If you come a bit further south, towards the Spanish Border, you will find the language is Catalan. Suspect that may be what your man from Bezier was speaking. Mind you, I prefer that to the superior bastards from Paris.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

[Removed by poster at 19/01/16 12:13:05]

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By *at69drive OP   Man
over a year ago

Hertford


"You definitely need actual live lessons: you can't learn useful French from a book; best if the teacher is actually French too;

Problem is that even then, classes will teach you " proper" French; nothing wrong with that, and you can have reasonably sensible conversations in France, and many French will slow down and speak more precisely for you;

However, real conversational French that the French speak to each other ie in cafes, bars, in the street, is very different;

They speak quickly, slur words together, miss words or parts of words out, use slang, so to be truly fluent ( so that you can join in a " normal" conversation) you have to pick that up .

How long? Depends how easily you learn languages; some people have the " knack" some don't ; and if you have never learned a foreign language before, it is difficult.

I learned French to A level at school:

I later, in the course of my work, worked with French, and visited regularly, so got to practise it over several years, on and off;

In UK I was regarded as speaking " fluently".

I now live here permanently, when I arrived, I realised that though I could go most things ( discuss stuff in the tax office, the doctor's office, the town hall etc) I wasn't really fluent,

Two years on, i now am quite " fluent"; I can join in nearly any conversation, understand what it is about, get 90% of the nuances and emotions and opinions, and understand most of the " shortcuts" they use in speaking.

But that is because I am lucky to be able to pick up languages; and because I am immersed, and have lots of French freinds.

The first key stage where you will feel you are becoming fluent is the day you realise that you have stopped translating between English and French, and that you are actually thinking in French.

The next stage is when you actually forget which language you are speaking in. ( or don't notice which language). I am approaching that now.

The biggest difficulty is not actually saying stuff yourself; it's understanding what is being said to you;

But if you can understand how to express past, present, future, express needs and wants, and basic emotions ( happiness, displeasure, hopes) you can get by. Without being immersed, I would say you can do that from a standing start in 2 years, with regular lessons; however, find the French channels on the TV ( there several on satellite in UK) and try to watch French news ( because you can cross reference major events to UK news) and documentaries ; if you can watch at least 2 hours French TV a week, it will really help.

"
. The advice which you have given is excellent .

Luckily the first set of lessons which I booked were cancelled , so I have rebooked with a language school in South Kensington which teaches only French and all the teachers are French natives . I think they are part of a French state organisation .Name is Institut Francis. Royaume- Uni

I atteended the first lessons to night and security was tight after recent events in France . Students had their bags searched as they entered the building .

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Use post if notes around your house. If you put one on the door ..windown etc then write it in french. This helped me. X

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By *enard ArgenteMan
over a year ago

London and France


"

Luckily the first set of lessons which I booked were cancelled , so I have rebooked with a language school in South Kensington which teaches only French and all the teachers are French natives . I think they are part of a French state organisation .Name is Institut Francis. Royaume- Uni

I atteended the first lessons to night and security was tight after recent events in France . Students had their bags searched as they entered the building ."

L'institut Francais is about as good as you can get.

Yes, it is directed by The French Government ( Ministry of Culture and Foreign Ministry. )

And I see that they teach to the recognized EU standards ( A1,A2.....C1etc). Socatvthecendvyoy get a clear evaluation of your level ( which defines quite clearly what you can do in the Language).

They will give you the "right" amount of grammar without being total Grammar nazis; but be prepared to get into past, imperfect, conditional pluperfect, future verb tenses;

( depending on what level you are at)

They also do other cultural events ( French Films, art, theatre etc, ) I believe.

Hopefully all the instruction is in French;

Where I go; English is banned completely in the classroom! And it really works- you don't retreat to your " safety zone".

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

You'll never learn effectively from classes I'm afraid to say. Going to classes is a waste of time and money! They'll teach you generic stuff. Sure, you'll probably come away with a bunch of basic phrases. You'd be best to have private lessons and talk about things that interest you. I don't give a fuck about French food, so having a class lesson on shopping at the butchers is about as dry as listening to David Cameron talk! Best to save your money and have Skype lessons instead with a native - that way you can tailor lessons to suit you.

Oh - you need to define what fluent means - this is very vague and doesn't really mean anything.

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By *enard ArgenteMan
over a year ago

London and France

Read my posts above:

GOOD classes work very well .

Bad ones are useless .

The one described above is probably very good. It will be in real French, given by native speakers

Good classes don't just let you talk about the weather, or the butchers, but teach you how to express emotions, likes, dislikes; opinions and preferences.

And cover subjects like art, music, sport, politics.

And conversational jargon too.

Ignore "fluent": a good course assesses you against the EU standards; which clearly define what you are capable of doing at each standard.

All my English freinds think I am " Fluent" my French freinds think I " speak French well"; I think my French is awful .

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