FabSwingers.com forum: Rent yield for Heliopolis

By *rientspice OP Couple
over a year ago

Sanderstead

Hi! Anybody know the average rental yield for the nice apartments in Heliopolis pre-covid? Typically, we pay 2000 Euros per week during super-peak for those types of apartments. But I think those apartments get booked just 8-12 weeks in year?

We're contemplating on buying one, so doing research on the numbers.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I think when you add in the condominium fees, insurance, service charges, management fees , OTA fees (Booking dot com is 16.1%) And if your not there the management fees and cleaning fees....I think you will find it hard to generate a return on your capital

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Also you need to cost in French tax regime- even if not resident in France you would have to complete a tax return each year. There are different types of business set ups you would have to apply to be if you earn more than 15k euros a year income from it.

I have rental property in U.K. and a house in France and was going to take French residency but have decided against it as it would cost me more tax wise and a lot more in capital gains tax if I sell one of my properties here.

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By *rientspice OP Couple
over a year ago

Sanderstead

Thanks for the feedback. Btw, I'm not planning to do it for a 'profit'. Essentially, I just want our Cap holidays 'subsidized'. Might be cheaper to just buy a flat instead of constantly renting?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Thanks for the feedback. Btw, I'm not planning to do it for a 'profit'. Essentially, I just want our Cap holidays 'subsidized'. Might be cheaper to just buy a flat instead of constantly renting?"

It would certainly stop you having to do a tax return every year which this year has changed from last year and is even more complicated.

You could look into co-property ownership which they do on the coast and in the ski resorts where you buy part of a year, I think a bit different from traditional Timeshare. Or you could look for a few Fab friends to buy it between you.

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By *enkayentaCouple
over a year ago

Glencullen

We're in Port Nature. Annual local taxes approx €1,500, Syndic (management) fees approx €1,000 and utilities/insurance another €500 before you even think about renting out. We used to rent and it just wasn't worth the hassle. The local rental agencies took 30% every time and being above board with income tax took a big chunk of the rest. For us though the biggest pain was having to pick our own weeks early in the year so that the rental agency could begin to let it out.

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By *mooth and becksCouple
over a year ago

Agde

We have a apartment in port nature. But it’s our den have no thoughts about renting it out. To many costs to accrue love it but guess we are lucky and don’t need to rent it out.

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By *ife2shortCouple
over a year ago

Cheltenham

Ha Ha- you get the worst parts of the year and end up with change for a pint and a packet of crisps. Buy what you can afford and enjoy it for yourselves and go when you want. You don't make money on rentals in France.We gave up years ago- but when Covid hit- 3 MONTHS in the sun!!!!

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By *rientspice OP Couple
over a year ago

Sanderstead

Well, we were planning to tell the agency to block-off super-peak for us (last week July to 2nd week Aug), then rent-it out for all the other days.

If we got net 4% yield (after all costs, including agency fees), we would have been happy. That's enough to pay the mortgage ... in theory.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

In our opinion there is no business sense in investing in Le Cap.

200k Eu looking for 4% return ie 8k clear profit isn't achievable especially if you want to use the property at the peak of the season.

We rent out our apartment during the peak season as it suits us to be there in spring and from mid September. Over the last 16 seasons we only made a profit after all costs on 4 occasions. That on a mortgage free property.

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By *rientspice OP Couple
over a year ago

Sanderstead

Thanks! How about outside the Naturist Village? Anybody knows if holiday rentals outside break-even or have a profit?

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By *otlovefun42Couple
over a year ago

Costa Blanca Spain...

We already had rental properties in Germany and our own place in Spain and for pretty much the same reasons as the OP we looked at buying a place in Cap a few years ago.

After only doing about half of the research we decided that it was a non starter. The apartments were far too expensive, 30% agents fees, community charges, and just the local taxes (we didn't get as far as any others)

Add all that the very short season and it was more than enough to put us off.

In the end we bought 2 good sized town houses in Spain for less than the price of a small apartment in Cap.

They don't make us a fortune but we get enough to more than cover our trips to Cap. (well before Covid anyway)

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By *op Skip and JumpMan
over a year ago

London

"Hi! Anybody know the average rental yield for the nice apartments in Heliopolis pre-covid? Typically, we pay 2000 Euros per week during super-peak for those types of apartments. But I think those apartments get booked just 8-12 weeks in year?

We're contemplating on buying one, so doing research on the numbers."
.Hello. I own an apartment inside the village and last year my return on capital employed was 1.6 % ( or if it was adjusted for lost bookings due to Covid would be circa 2.4 % ) . This is managing the apartment myself and usually with rebooking from existing customers . The apartment is owned outright ( no mortgage ) . I employ a local handover agent at a cost of 160 Euros per change of tenant .

Based on the information which you supply and assuming a capital cost of 300,000 Euros I would estimate your return to be about 1.8 % ( this would increase if you could let it for more than seven weeks or possibly manage lettings yourself ) .

When purchasing about 7 % has to be paid in agents fees and taxation . You also need an account for tourist tax and a French Tax return must be completed in order to declare the rental income . To complicate matters the income should also be declared on your UK income tax return . All electrical circuits must be certified as safe .

You also need to be aware of one off charges which can quickly wipe out any profits . A few years ago I contributed circa 2000 Euros towards a new lift . Residents of Port Ambonne had to pay circa 10,000 Euros towards refurbishment of the block .

I view my apartment as a place to stay with a fantastic view in a great location and any profit is my spending money .

It would be unrealistic to regard it as an investment and you would be highly unlikely to generate sufficient income to service a mortgage .

Some apartments in Cap do not let as easily as people think . I have heard of apartments being empty in the peak season .

Good luck in your search - as others have said I would not regard purchasing an apartment in Cap as an investment

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By *rientspice OP Couple
over a year ago

Sanderstead

Thanks for everyone's input! It's unlikely we go with a purchase now.

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By *op Skip and JumpMan
over a year ago

London

"Thanks! How about outside the Naturist Village? Anybody knows if holiday rentals outside break-even or have a profit? "
Hello . I know a few people who own properties outside the village . You will find that the purchase cost outside the village is about half that inside the village . The season is still short and rents will be lower . One person I know recovered the cost of their investment within ten years ( however that was without a mortgage and doing all repairs / refurbishment themselves ) . All lettings were managed directly .

However staying outside the village is an entirely different

to staying inside the village . When I rented outside the gate the cost savings did not justify the inconvenience . Having to walk or get a bus to the village did not appeal to more , nor did a 30 minute walk back to the accommodation at 2 am .

I also found that if you struck lucky , not many people wanted to spend time to make a thirty minute journey to your apartment

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By *rientspice OP Couple
over a year ago

Sanderstead

Well, it doesn't really affect us since we're interested in staying during super-peak (end of July-2nd week Aug). So 3 weeks of a 10min drive to Glamour ain't that bad. Only hassle I can think of is I can't drink too much for the drive back home.

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By *rientspice OP Couple
over a year ago

Sanderstead

Having said that, might as well invest in another place where the yield is higher and use that to just splurge on Cap.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Well, went two years ago, found a last minute rent.

In my opinion it was expensive (same price as a 5 stars hotel in Paris).

I heard they plan to build new appartments inside and also outside of the village (related to a new exhibit center)

Think about it, have a chat with some real estate agency but keep in mind that the cap is crowded from June to September only and the price within the village is insane compare to the area.

Also, u may be in the apartment when the price are high..but if you intend to go there on a yearly basis for the next 5 years could be not a bad idea to buy.

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By *ichael1960Man
over a year ago

Doncaster

Orientspice - any chance you would contact me please? re Cap accommodation advice - thank you

Michael

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