FabSwingers.com forum: Discrimation and listings

By *S_Penny OP TV/TS
over a year ago

Selby

Ok, so there is a club in the NW area that has a listing in the clubs section. However this particular club has a no trans policy. This is pure discrimination and I have been to many other clubs and never had any problems.

I mean can you imagine a club saying no Black or Asians. I think not. But it's ok to say no trans people?

It is also a club where many of my friends go regularly and I would love to join them, but alas I can't.

Therefore I must ask, is it right that fab should support a club by having them in the listings when it has these unfair discriminatory policies?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

We can understand your frustration and it seems pathetic to us but to be honest being upfront is better,why would you want to spend your money in a place which does not welcome you, perhaps their clientele are judgemental and perhaps the owners are,who knows.

The only positive I can see with this is at least you haven't gone there,dressed up expecting a good night and been refused entry, remember they don't have to give you a reason why they won't admit you.

Put it down to ignorant people and move on x

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By *ownhouseTwosomeCouple
over a year ago

Birkenhead/Liverpool

There are actually 2 clubs in the NW who do not welcome people from the trans community. I am not going to get into the rights and wrongs as it's not professional, but all I will say is that they are missing a great opportunity as I find that our trans members bring something really special to our club and I love the fact that our members don't even flicker when a trans member is with us as they are so used to the diversity!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"There are actually 2 clubs in the NW who do not welcome people from the trans community. I am not going to get into the rights and wrongs as it's not professional, but all I will say is that they are missing a great opportunity as I find that our trans members bring something really special to our club and I love the fact that our members don't even flicker when a trans member is with us as they are so used to the diversity! "

Those clubs, were they public institutions and not private members clubs, would be in contravention of a variety of anti-discrimination laws.

Unfortunately, there is no legal redress to force private members clubs to institute non-discriminatory membership policies.

I've been recently taking issue with a 'club' in London which has a 'no over-45s, no BBWs (or to use their parlance, Overly-Obese,) no uglies,' policy.

In other words, you have to pass the owners' personal beauty standards to get into the place.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Ok, so there is a club in the NW area that has a listing in the clubs section. However this particular club has a no trans policy. This is pure discrimination and I have been to many other clubs and never had any problems.

I mean can you imagine a club saying no Black or Asians. I think not. But it's ok to say no trans people?

It is also a club where many of my friends go regularly and I would love to join them, but alas I can't.

Therefore I must ask, is it right that fab should support a club by having them in the listings when it has these unfair discriminatory policies?"

No it isn't. What is the name of the club?

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By *S_Penny OP TV/TS
over a year ago

Selby

And I am very thankful that I have enjoyed a lovely time at your club amongst others with a great deal of respect from you and your visitors.

I won't name the club, though I will admit I didn't realise there were two such clubs in the NW with a similar policy. It will be interesting to see whether I am welcomed after September when I will be post op or not I guess when I will be slightly less obviously trans.

I do understand the point made about knowing beforehand, but ultimately I don't feel it is right for such clubs to be allowed to promote any discriminatory policies regardless and I think Fab should stand up against it. Ok different nights I understand and that's fine with me. It's just going to be more hurtful to any trans person when it's open nights as such and they turn up with a group of friends say.

Oh and by the way I am a woman, just I was just unfortunately born with a penis. That's all.

Thanks for your comments though. I was merely trying to provoke discussion around this policy.

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By *ham_ts4femsTV/TS
over a year ago

Birmingham

It's not just clubs that discriminate us hun, many individuals on here especially m/f cpls do it all the time even the ones that are supposedly looking to meet us, just a smokescreen to get attention. I admire your spunk in persueing it though.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

ALL clubs discriminate against men....by charging more for entry, having nights were single men are not allowed.

There was a golf club (actually one of many) who voted to not have women members.

That's the way it is with private members clubs....they are exempt from discrimination law. If they don't like you...go somewhere else. Their loss?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

You know what Penny... Fuck them! Not in any orifice...just fuck them!

You're beautiful and and you know I think you're ace 3 they're missing out and your friends should take a trip to other clubs to support and include you. Vicky is right, that trans members bring something special and it is ultimately their loss. It's just a shame you can't attend to be with your friends.

Big hugs xx E xx

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By *S_Penny OP TV/TS
over a year ago

Selby

Hey E. You're pretty lush yourself woman.

Yeah to be honest I don't worry about it that much about it really as I know there are places I can go and I'm welcomed as a single woman (and rightly so).

I was just having a conversation with a friend that had been to one of those clubs and said to me what their excuse now was for continuing the ban after she had voiced her disdain for it. Alledgely it's something to do with toilets. Didn't realise we'd suddenly got bathroom bills like the HB2 one in North Carolina.

Anyway. It was that which prompted me to think, why the hell should they get promoted on here, when other non discriminatory clubs exist and fab itself is essentially open to all. They should only promote clubs that follow and adhere to their ethos in my view. Maybe I'm being too optimistic.

Thanks again all xx

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By *at69driveMan
over a year ago

Hertford

I mean can you imagine a club saying no Black or Asians. I think not. But it's ok to say no trans people?

It is also a club where many of my friends go regularly and I would love to join them, but alas I can't.

Therefore I must ask, is it right that fab should support a club by having them in the listings when it has these unfair discriminatory policies?"
Who cares about discrimination ?. Their club ,their choice .

.I am certain that sometimes I may be discriminated against on grounds of age or looks . Why should I be bothered .?. There are plenty more fish in the see.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I mean can you imagine a club saying no Black or Asians. I think not. But it's ok to say no trans people?

It is also a club where many of my friends go regularly and I would love to join them, but alas I can't.

Therefore I must ask, is it right that fab should support a club by having them in the listings when it has these unfair discriminatory policies? Who cares about discrimination ?. Their club ,their choice .

.I am certain that sometimes I may be discriminated against on grounds of age or looks . Why should I be bothered .?. There are plenty more fish in the see. "

I don't see looks or age as discriminatory...more personal preference... You don't get refused entry on those grounds...

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By *S_Penny OP TV/TS
over a year ago

Selby

I'm not worried if they want to discrimate. Yeah it's annoying and unfair but yeah it is their club and up to them. My point is when fab doesn't discrimate why should they benefit from site support? Maybe then club listings should show who is welcome or any rules like that? Then people know before they go and find out on the door.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Who cares about discrimination? Their club, their choice. I am certain that sometimes I may be discriminated against on grounds of age or looks. Why should I be bothered? There are plenty more fish in the sea."

Say what? 'Who cares about discrimination?' What kind of a statement is that?

Yet another believer in the old 'ignore the problem and it will go away' defence...

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By *at69driveMan
over a year ago

Hertford

Say what? 'Who cares about discrimination?' What kind of a statement is that?

Yet another believer in the old 'ignore the problem and it will go away' defence..."
I prefer to do and achieve things in life , not worry about whether I am being discriminated against .

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By *reakShow90Man
over a year ago

Manchester/halifax

Those clubs, were they public institutions and not private members clubs, would be in contravention of a variety of anti-discrimination laws.

Unfortunately, there is no legal redress to force private members clubs to institute non-discriminatory membership policies.

I've been recently taking issue with a 'club' in London which has a 'no over-45s, no BBWs (or to use their parlance, Overly-Obese,) no uglies,' policy.

In other words, you have to pass the owners' personal beauty standards to get into the place."
yes there are a few clubs like this if your not 'good looking' you can't come in also there are dating sites that only let models use it I find it pretty nasty tbh but once again their club or site it's their rules still makes me sick yet if any one of them so called good looking people wanted to go in anyother club they could and if anything would be drooled over even more to hype there ego up sorry just hate vain people who can't get over looks

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By *S_Penny OP TV/TS
over a year ago

Selby

I've been recently taking issue with a 'club' in London which has a 'no over-45s, no BBWs (or to use their parlance, Overly-Obese,) no uglies,' policy.

In other words, you have to pass the owners' personal beauty standards to get into the place.yes there are a few clubs like this if your not 'good looking' you can't come in also there are dating sites that only let models use it I find it pretty nasty tbh but once again their club or site it's their rules still makes me sick yet if any one of them so called good looking people wanted to go in anyother club they could and if anything would be drooled over even more to hype there ego up sorry just hate vain people who can't get over looks "

This is largely why I am suggesting it is unfair for such clubs to get a commercial advantage in their listing if they do have such policies. I bet if a lot of people knew about them, they might think twice about attending them.

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By *reakShow90Man
over a year ago

Manchester/halifax

I've been recently taking issue with a 'club' in London which has a 'no over-45s, no BBWs (or to use their parlance, Overly-Obese,) no uglies,' policy.

"
true but then again good looking people would moan about having to look at uglies in their club or site and just start a new one ied say keep going with what your doing but sorry to be mean but don't hold hope so fuck them off and go some where you are wanted hun

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By *irty130Couple
over a year ago

Bristol Area

I'd be worried that if Fab started to decide which clubs were ok, and which were not, what criteria would they be placing on that? It's not like there is a governing body for swingers clubs. There are clubs which don't operate within the law in other ways too, it's not up to Fab to police this.

Would it end up just being a a list of friends-of-fab?

The review section is there for a reason. Write an honest review about your experience. Don't write it from anger. A well-written review can allow others to make their own decision and their own opinion on what is acceptable.

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By *S_Penny OP TV/TS
over a year ago

Selby

I do get where you are coming from, but then I can't write a review nor can any other trans person because we are banned from going there. You can't write a review for a club you've not visited.

Perhaps a solution is that the listings section should include a simple list of types that are welcome at the club and then that will save wasted trips.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I do get where you are coming from, but then I can't write a review nor can any other trans person because we are banned from going there. You can't write a review for a club you've not visited.

Perhaps a solution is that the listings section should include a simple list of types that are welcome at the club and then that will save wasted trips. "

Perhaps attend club as a gay woman, no one needs to know anything you being trans. Review it from there?

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By *S_Penny OP TV/TS
over a year ago

Selby

"I do get where you are coming from, but then I can't write a review nor can any other trans person because we are banned from going there. You can't write a review for a club you've not visited.

Perhaps a solution is that the listings section should include a simple list of types that are welcome at the club and then that will save wasted trips.

Perhaps attend club as a gay woman, no one needs to know anything you being trans. Review it from there?"

Oh bless you xxx unfortunately as a nearly 6ft tall red head who's the size of rugby centre that's not going to be that easy.

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By *ugby 123Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

O o O oo

"I'd be worried that if Fab started to decide which clubs were ok, and which were not, what criteria would they be placing on that? It's not like there is a governing body for swingers clubs. There are clubs which don't operate within the law in other ways too, it's not up to Fab to police this.

. "

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"It's not just clubs that discriminate us hun, many individuals on here especially m/f cpls do it all the time even the ones that are supposedly looking to meet us, just a smokescreen to get attention. I admire your spunk in persueing it though. "

Aw diddums.

I am a short fat hairy Glaswegian guy. Personally I am comfortable with others having preferences which exclude me without resorting to hurling around accusations of discrimination.

Concentrate on the many clubs that are happy to welcome you rather than the few who don't.

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By * Busty HotwifeCouple
over a year ago

Bradford

I mean can you imagine a club saying no Black or Asians. I think not. But it's ok to say no trans people?

It is also a club where many of my friends go regularly and I would love to join them, but alas I can't.

Therefore I must ask, is it right that fab should support a club by having them in the listings when it has these unfair discriminatory policies?"

Why whine? They don't want you or your type there. Accept it. We won't meet TV/TS as it's not for us. Perhaps that's how the management feel. We all have preferences, likes and dis-likes. Your friends go there but you can't and they STILL go? Think about that one.

Turn it around. Don't be negative-I'm playing Devils Advocate. Accept it and go to a club that DOES want you and accepts you for you. A club that welcomes you and makes you feel valued. Don't complain about a club that does not want your money.

Give it to a club that does.

Concentrate on positivity, not negativity x

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By *oanne_MacTV/TS
over a year ago

Perth

personally I wouldn't want to give them a penny due to their policies.....

Other people can try and dress it up anyway they like...discrimination is discrimination, regardless of what race, gender, sexuality it's directed at..

P.S i wouldn't do them the service of witholding who they are as you have said you are. I'd name and shame in a heartbeat...

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I mean can you imagine a club saying no Black or Asians. I think not. But it's ok to say no trans people?

It is also a club where many of my friends go regularly and I would love to join them, but alas I can't.

Therefore I must ask, is it right that fab should support a club by having them in the listings when it has these unfair discriminatory policies?"

So sad to hear this and i never knew this was going on. I hope you find somewhere where you can be yourself and welcomed and feel you are not been discriminated against. I hope you and your friends find a club that will welome all in a non judgementel way. Good luck hunny and keep smiling x

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I do get where you are coming from, but then I can't write a review nor can any other trans person because we are banned from going there. You can't write a review for a club you've not visited.

Perhaps a solution is that the listings section should include a simple list of types that are welcome at the club and then that will save wasted trips.

Perhaps attend club as a gay woman, no one needs to know anything you being trans. Review it from there?"

This happened at said club. Male found out a lady was post op and kicked off big time. Tgirls been banned ever since, whether pre or post op. If I had been working, id have told the guy to man up or I'd have booted ot the guy out. All it was, was a kiss.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I do get where you are coming from, but then I can't write a review nor can any other trans person because we are banned from going there. You can't write a review for a club you've not visited.

Perhaps a solution is that the listings section should include a simple list of types that are welcome at the club and then that will save wasted trips.

Perhaps attend club as a gay woman, no one needs to know anything you being trans. Review it from there?

By the sounds of it the guy was ashamed of himself therefore he palmed the blame onto someone else.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I'd be interested to know which clubs they are as I haven't come across any that openly advertise this policy and I have been to several of the North West clubs listed.

As far as the incident with the post-op woman mentioned, if she has a grc then the club committed a criminal offence by treating her as anything other than female. Was the guy Latvian by any chance

(in joke, i'll tell you about it sometime)

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By *S_Penny OP TV/TS
over a year ago

Selby

"I'd be interested to know which clubs they are as I haven't come across any that openly advertise this policy and I have been to several of the North West clubs listed.

As far as the incident with the post-op woman mentioned, if she has a grc then the club committed a criminal offence by treating her as anything other than female. Was the guy Latvian by any chance

(in joke, i'll tell you about it sometime) "

Actually you don't even need to have a GRC for that. I'm legally female and still currently pre-op. Admittedly that will be changing in the next couple of months but as long as you have a letter from your GIC you can change your passport and driving licence etc at which point you have legally binding female ID. Technically you can get a GRC non-op apparently as well. This is for those where having the op is not possible I believe.

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By *ity Slickers PartiesCouple (MM)
over a year ago

Brighton & Hove

Interesting post that brought about a recent experience I would like to share with you if I may...

As we enjoy Club Flying the other day (without mentioning which club name) we were refused entrance in a Gay Club we wanted to visit for a laugh.

The doorman told us: You two can enter but she can't!

So... I promptly said but she is a LadyBoy (she is actually a half japanise sexy girl) so she stayed on the joke and gave a good grab in between her legs over her mini-skirt that made the doorman puzzled for a minute... Than he sais: - oh that's allright than... -

They would have let us in but we decided to go else where as indeed there is plenty of clubs to choose from... Did we feel discriminated? So what? We had a laugh as indeed life is too short!!!

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By *S_Penny OP TV/TS
over a year ago

Selby

That's interesting. But I think people are missing the point.

If you can go in but choose not to you have that position of what they call privilege.

Clearly some of us don't have that choice. That's how discrimination works and so people that have the choice, it's easy for them to glibly say well there are other clubs go to them; as they have the choice of all the clubs. Clearly not everyone is in that position to be able to choose and why should I and other trans people be limited to a small number of accepting clubs.

Hence why I think it's wrong for fab to promote such discrimination by virtue of the fact they allow these clubs to advertise.

I know you come in for a lot of flack City Slickers for your sexiness criteria. Again you are in the position of privilege something some of us do not have.

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By *litheroevoyeurMan
over a year ago

Clitheroe

Say what? 'Who cares about discrimination?' What kind of a statement is that?

Yet another believer in the old 'ignore the problem and it will go away' defence..."

Their club, their rules. If you don't like them then go somewhere else.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"That's interesting. But I think people are missing the point.

If you can go in but choose not to you have that position of what they call privilege.

Hence why I think it's wrong for fab to promote such discrimination by virtue of the fact they allow these clubs to advertise.

The point of a private members club is to cater to its clientele. I can only guess that they have a lot of single guys as members so dont feel the need to be more inclusive.

as for FABS role, i understand your point, it caters for a niche community so it has a duty of care (for want of a better term) to make available to all the relevent info they need.

At the end of the day Fabs is a resource, and there are plenty of other resources out there as well. This is not fabs fault so they should not be vilified for it. If you start to exclude one club because you disagree with their policies, then where does it end? It is up to fab to give is the choices and it is up to us to make those choices based on the info we have.

For example we can choose to not go to single mens nights at a club... but when you get down to it thats means little choice at all as couples only are very restricted in choice, but i would not demand fab exclude abfabs because i wont go there on a friday.

we have been to many events where CD/TV/TS etc of all their flavours are not only encouraged but in my opinion enhance the occasion and make it more enjoyable.

Shame on the clubs that exclude you for your preferences, but it is their loss. Good luck to you.

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