FabSwingers.com forum: Separate the TV/TS thing

By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

As a transsexual person it really annoys me that both transvestite and transsexual are lumbered together on this website. especially considering that the two are completely different in terms of motives.

'Transvestite' describes a person who dresses in the clothes and accessoried of their opposite gender, for sexual or emotional gratification. Many people who do this prefer the term 'crossdresser', although the two are synonymous. The vast majority of transvestites are male, but there are some female transvestites.

Transvestites neither need, nor want, medical intervention.

'Transsexual' describes a person, male or female, who was born with a congenital neurological condition which means that their gender identity, which is determined in the hypothalamus of the brain, does not match their physical anatomy. Transsexual people require medical intervention, including hormone therapy and genital surgery, to correct this mismatch and lead normal lives, but transsexualism is neither defined by, nor restricted to, that intervention; transsexual people are transsexual from birth.

It just frustrates me to no end when I have someone presuming I must be a transvestite - which I kinda would rather be as taking off a costume seems a much more easier road than being transsexual.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

The terms should be seperate xx

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

right? x its just so annoying, its 2015 now fab, transsexuals are now finally getting the spotlight in the media so this ignorance is no longer an excuse.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Maybe contact admim about it ? X

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By *rightonsteveMan
over a year ago

Brighton - even Hove!

On a lighter note - OP: I like your pics

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By *hloe sussexTV/TS
over a year ago

Larne

"As a transsexual person it really annoys me that both transvestite and transsexual are lumbered together on this website. especially considering that the two are completely different in terms of motives.

Transvestites neither need, nor want, medical intervention.

It just frustrates me to no end when I have someone presuming I must be a transvestite - which I kinda would rather be as taking off a costume seems a much more easier road than being transsexual.

Here here

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By *om and JennieCouple
over a year ago

Chams or Socials

"On a lighter note - OP: I like your pics

I agree!! Especially the ones with purple hair/lips

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By *rightonsteveMan
over a year ago

Brighton - even Hove!

"On a lighter note - OP: I like your pics

I agree!! Especially the ones with purple hair/lips "

Haha that's the one I fabbed

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I agree entirely with the premise of opening post, but it does seem a tad churlish to grant yourself permission to become really annoyed about a situation you wilfully entered into by joining a site with a pre-established categorisation ......

But nevertheless ..... you are right,,,, and I salute your endeavour and I must say you look utterly stunning ,,,,,,,

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

Haha thanks everyone. I have been on this website quite a while now, and at that time there was not much in the media about transsexuals other than the occasional documentary, and although at the time I was quite miffed about having the two communities lumbered together, I

at best tolerated it.

But fabswingers is a safe space for both our communities, however, fabswingers also as a responsibility and with the times moving forward I would hope that fab evolves with it.

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By *inkyKellyCDTV/TS
over a year ago

Coventry

I completely agree, they're two different things. I've seen several other sites (swinger sites and transwoman sites) differentiate, so it's time we caught up here

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

is this post still up in the lounge? I cant find it? thought it was deleted

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By *ylonSlutTV/TS
over a year ago

Durham

I understand this, but who would police this and how? To me there should be no TS you are either female or male depending on which gender you consider yourself but doubt that is practical either. On a lighter note I wish there was a porn TS category would save me explaining things to a lot of guys who message me.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

what do you mean police it? just because one selects a gender identity does not mean that someone needs to reinforce it. And while we in the transsexual community would love to just either select male or female - other people would not. In fact, its quite well known that a lot of transsexuals - especially trans-women face violence and murder due to a partner finding out she is transsexual. Therefore I think having the transsexual gender identity is helpful as the person visiting the profile knows what he/she is getting himself into.

Also, not everyone in the community considers themselves to be black or white. In fact there are a lot of genderqueer people in both communities.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"what do you mean police it? just because one selects a gender identity does not mean that someone needs to reinforce it. And while we in the transsexual community would love to just either select male or female - other people would not. In fact, its quite well known that a lot of transsexuals - especially trans-women face violence and murder due to a partner finding out she is transsexual. Therefore I think having the transsexual gender identity is helpful as the person visiting the profile knows what he/she is getting himself into.

Also, not everyone in the community considers themselves to be black or white. In fact there are a lot of genderqueer people in both communities. "

The site does provide every member an equal opportunity to specifically identify what they offer and expect from their participation here....

Members are given the option to provide relevant profile content way beyond the ability of any tick-box categorisation,,,,

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By *irtyGirlWoman
over a year ago

Edinburgh

"is this post still up in the lounge? I cant find it? thought it was deleted"

I moved it in here so it doesn't get lost in amongst the nonsense in the Lounge.

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By *lighty1Woman
over a year ago

You Dont Need to Know, right now

The problem could be that, when Fab was set up (ten or more years ago), attitudes were far less enlightened, and membership was far smaller. So TV and TS were categorised together.

Now membership is huge and attitudes are far more enlightened, but several thousands of TV/TS profiles need to be re-categorised, to give the correct picture. But Fab doesn't have the information to do this. They would need the users to redefine themselves. (It's a bit like the 'tell us which is the male and which is the female in a MF couple profiles' - Fab just don't know, and Feb don't have the resources to read each profile individually to make the reclassification.)

Separating TV and TS has been mentioned several times in the Forums, and I'm sure it's something that Fab knows needs addressing. It's just a case of being patient until Fab has the resources to create the additional fields (and then being patient until all the wrongly-classified people have redefined themselves).

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I agree also. Your pictures are great

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By *Carver-Man
over a year ago

Glasgow

Chiming in to support this and add that transgender and transexual should be offered as modifiers to man and women, instead of the current situation which suggests that trans women are not 'real' women. Also we should have a non-binary tickbox alongside man and woman, as Aeylektra says there are plenty of folks who don't subscribe to either.

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By *heOwlMan
over a year ago

Altrincham

"Chiming in to support this and add that transgender and transexual should be offered as modifiers to man and women, instead of the current situation which suggests that trans women are not 'real' women. Also we should have a non-binary tickbox alongside man and woman, as Aeylektra says there are plenty of folks who don't subscribe to either.

Suspect that some of this may be complicated to impelment, but agree completely never the less.

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By *Carver-Man
over a year ago

Glasgow

Also Alektrya, I already messaged you once so don't want to pester- but I think you're really cute. And anyone with so many pentagrams is already in my good books. Derail over!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

If your gender identity is female then regardless of your genitalia would you not feel better with a female profile? (If this is allowed?)

When you say you are straight (as stated on your profile) does that mean your preference is for men?

Just a suggestion until the whole issue can be sorted by admin as I totally agree with your post.

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By *piritualMan
over a year ago

south east

totally agree. the terms are chalk and cheese, fab seems seriously outdated on this one, i've always felt it's odd. they really could do with a gentle reminder it's almost in 2016, definitely not cool to still appear stuck somewhere circa 1985!

and ps i also like your pics alektrya, and i have to be honest, my fave is the one where you're in a g-string and your bum's on show

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By *Carver-Man
over a year ago

Glasgow

"If your gender identity is female then regardless of your genitalia would you not feel better with a female profile? (If this is allowed?)

When you say you are straight (as stated on your profile) does that mean your preference is for men?

Just a suggestion until the whole issue can be sorted by admin as I totally agree with your post."

For a lot of trans people are seriously endangered by people who find them attractive and subsequently realise that they're trans. These reactions can range from abuse, humiliation and outing to physical violence, death threats and murder. So on a sex site like this disclosing your trans identity is literally a matter of life and death.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

My gender identity is female but I still am a trans female and thats how I view myself. That's what I am so there is no point in me trying to disguise that. I'm quite proud of whom I am. I'm not ashamed of where I came from.

However by just selecting female I am not only putting myself at risk with violence, homicide, sexual assault and all that other lovely stuff that some twisted asshole would put upon me, I would also be misleading, deceiving and also fundamentally denying who I am as a person and what sets me apart from everyone else.

I am in a way quite happy being who I am. a big misleading stereotype that trans people were unhappy with their birth gender... that's not really the case. I just am who I am, and I express myself with what feels natural to me.

Also, it wouldnt be that hard to re categorise anyone as if this were to be put in place it could be done gradually. Those inactive members who are listed as TV/TS would remain in that category while those of us who are on this website a lot would log in and be greeted with a page that would allow us to select the option.

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By *LCCCouple
over a year ago

Cambridge

I support the OP and think that TS and TV should be too different options

To the poster I have quoted, they did have the option of just clicking "male" or "female" at the start.

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By *LCCCouple
over a year ago

Cambridge

It really shouldn't be that difficult, there are a Lot of members who pay for membership of the site, so I wouldn't imagine that a shortage of money is the obstacle.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I'm 100% behind this

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

the terms should be divided as the two have nothing akin. We would love to meet a transexual and hate wading through the Transvestites !

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By *inky-MinxWoman
over a year ago

Grantham

I agree too, there are no similarities between the two.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Yes, I'd like an "other" category too. That would suit me very well.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

trans can be quite fluid with many people taking different words to mean different things.

I was always told that a transvestite is somebody who wears clothes and behaves as the opposite gender to which they where born. Cross dresser as somebody who takes sexual gratification from wearing the clothes of the opposite sex and transgender for somebody who has begun surgery/hormones etc.

There are several grey areas especially with labels. However, there should be more choices and we should be able to decide which box we put ourselves in.

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By *ichael_NWMan
over a year ago

Fylde

Gaydar have recently separated

out chat roooms

Transgenger and TV/CD.

They also have a profile orientation tag: Transgender

Take note Fab Admin

Happy New Year

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By *bsinthe_boyMan
over a year ago

Luton

Can I chime in and say that I would support separating TV and TS.

I can only speak for myself but I would happily meet with a trans-woman (regardless of what's between her legs) but not with a crossdresser who otherwise identifies as male.

I'd like to be able to tick a box to say I am up for meeting someone who is TS with a separate box for TV (which I personally would not tick)

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By *oanne_MacTV/TS
over a year ago

Perth

I completely agree that TV and TS are worlds apart and should be separated...

the literal definition of transvestite used by most dictionaries and based on the results of a study concluded in 1910 is..... "a person, typically a man, who derives sexual pleasure from dressing in clothes appropriate to the opposite sex"

now that's my grumble.... there's an 'in between' category of many, many people who are on the trans spectrum who don't wish to transition and don't live full time.... plenty for want of a better word 'crossdress' and sexual reasons have nothing to do with it.

I fall in this category and I'm not TS but going with the outdated categorisation of what a TV is, then Im not a TV either

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

if I had gone through grs i would sign on as female on this site unless there was a specific option to state ts post op female, In my current position i would prefer to have the option of TS pre op. It would avoid a lot of misunderstanding

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

[Removed by poster at 01/01/16 01:41:52]

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

[Removed by poster at 03/01/16 11:53:05]

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

One thing that really irks me about this, and causes problems is that some transvestites and crossdressers love to refer to themselves as "trannies", which is fair enough for them. But the word is quite frankly a pejorative slur that was used against transsexuals and "butch" looking cis females back in the day to dehumanise us. I'm not looking to become PC police or nowt but you have to understand that for one group this is just a costume that they can wash off and the other its just who we are.

On this website I have been referred to as a "trannie" countless times, wheres other places and IRL I have not ever encountered this. At least to my face anyway. And whenever I pull someone up about this on here - apparently I'm in the wrong?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Fabswingers are wise to leave things as they are.......

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By *LCCCouple
over a year ago

Cambridge

"Fabswingers are wise to leave things as they are.......

Why do you think that?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"One thing that really irks me about this, and causes problems is that some transvestites and crossdressers love to refer to themselves as "trannies", which is fair enough for them. But the word is quite frankly a pejorative slur that was used against transsexuals and "butch" looking cis females back in the day to dehumanise us. I'm not looking to become PC police or nowt but you have to understand that for one group this is just a costume that they can wash off and the other its just who we are.

Is being called a Shemale offensive aswell? Forgive my ignorance if it is but I'm not really clued up on the subject but thank you for shedding some light on other things with your posts, it's extremely informative

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By *ikki ShooterTV/TS
over a year ago

Epsom

"Fabswingers are wise to leave things as they are.......

Why do you think that? "

One reason is where do you draw the line.

I've met some absolutely stunning trans-girls that are part time. They look more like real females (eg born that way) than some who have had grs. And then you have some crossdressers that have started hormones but still look like a man at the moment.

My point (and there is one) of that the road is different for each transsexual person. And much as I agree with the op I see a powder keg that's just waiting to explode in our faces.

I consider myself Trans-Polar. I have lived my life as a male. (not willingly but that's how it is.) Now when I transform into nikki I become her completely. All of that personality surfaces and my whole demeanor changes.

So once again "where do we draw the line?"xx

PS Op. You look fabulous and I hope you find all you're looking for xx

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By *oanne_MacTV/TS
over a year ago

Perth

All they have to do is put CD/TV together, put TS on its own and ideally another category for those who identify somewhere in between crossdressing and transforming something like Tgirl.

That would keep most of the trans people happier, wouldnt affect any non trans people on the site in fact it would probably help them realise more about the person their interested in

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By *teve_it_aloneMan
over a year ago

Dunfermline

Totally agree with the (sexy) OP. I suspect some behind the scenes reason why this is harder to implement, but it would be nice to hear from site management about it. It is ludicrously outdated, probably quite offensive, and also very frustrating for those using search filters.

As for the criticisms of the OP saying she joined so should put up with it... The best way to change a club rules is from within! It's so he flaw in an otherwise reasonable system, and one with the potential to be changed.

Transvestites neither need, nor want, medical intervention.

It just frustrates me to no end when I have someone presuming I must be a transvestite - which I kinda would rather be as taking off a costume seems a much more easier road than being transsexual.

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By *teve_it_aloneMan
over a year ago

Dunfermline

"On a lighter note - OP: I like your pics

I agree!! Especially the ones with purple hair/lips "

Sorry for the digression, and sorry if I'm out of line, but is your name a clue to your origins? We might have grown up near each other! I'd have replied privately, but filter blocked!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

i really aggree with this topic aswell ...

would be nice to have TS only section as a Ts people do not give the right value when u still on TV/TS together...

nothing against to tvs ... but is totally diferent be a tv to a TS ...

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By *adystephanieTV/TS
over a year ago

glos

I think it would be a great idea to divide these two groups as many of the gender identity issues and arguments on this site relate to Transexual Women and TV's just get dragged along in the mud and to be honest I for one am fed up with some of the outbursts from certain transsexuals on here that serve only to alienate them further from the mainstream.......

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By *osieWoman
over a year ago

Wembley

Why reinvent the wheel?

Go by whatever your legal sex is. So someone who is legally Male now, would choose Male

However, someone who not yet changed their birth certificate, will choose Female or TV/TS; their choice

Yes, I realise that there will be the question raised of who will check the documentation. Well, who checks the documentation of cisgender males or females?

Just my two-euroth

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"One reason is where do you draw the line.

My point (and there is one) of that the road is different for each transsexual person. And much as I agree with the op I see a powder keg that's just waiting to explode in our faces.

So once again "where do we draw the line?"xx

PS Op. You look fabulous and I hope you find all you're looking for xx

Okay, you are totally allowed to identify anyway you chose to which I am totally allowed to identify the way I want to.

However, I do think you have missed my point.

I was born transsexual, it was not some choice (If it were it would have saved me a lot of stress, anxiety, self-hatred and depression throughout my entire life) the only choices I have based on this fact is wherever I choose to "transition" or not.

I need to make to make this VERY CLEAR:

It does not matter if I looked like Malibu Barbie or Action Man, or wherever I did GRS or hormone therapy - I would still be a transsexual woman. Its a gender identity issue not an aesthetics one. If Caitlyn Jenner were still living as a stereotypical male Bruce Jenner - it's regardless if they looked the part or not they are STILL a transsexual woman. People are not defined by fashion choices.

This is not a costume and its not some alter ego which we can take off at the end of the day and live as cis people, we are still struggling constantly in a society that likes to treat us as if we do not actually exist.

Transvestism is completely different to transsexualism as are drag queens, crossdressers etc etc and the only reason the two are even put together is because of a misogynistic society that likes to draw similarities based on aesthetics.

Notice how everyone has HAD to mention my own personal appearance even though I did not bring my appearance into debate?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I demand a distinct category for us sissies.

Oh forgot we sissies never demand anything!

Having been around forever and a day and having TS friends ( was in a relationship with a trans woman for many years) I agree they are different, oh very different from the rest of the jumbled mess of men who wear frocks!

Different enough to warrant their own description or more likely to be offended because they don't want lumped with the mess?

This could be the start of a thread that runs for years just as it did on a well known other site popular with men who dress .

However that's the point really . TS although born as genetic males are not men , the rest of us sissies ( I like the old word) CDs TVs etc are . So following that logic they must be given a seperate category .

I like my logic.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"I demand a distinct category for us sissies.

Oh forgot we sissies never demand anything!

Different enough to warrant their own description or more likely to be offended because they don't want lumped with the mess?

This could be the start of a thread that runs for years just as it did on a well known other site popular with men who dress .

I like my logic.

Granted, some are born genetic males but some are also born genetic females... and some are just intersexed.

This. Has. Nothing. To. Do. With. Frocks. and DRESSES.

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By *teve_it_aloneMan
over a year ago

Dunfermline

This is why I wish there was a 'like' button on Fab.

"One reason is where do you draw the line.

My point (and there is one) of that the road is different for each transsexual person. And much as I agree with the op I see a powder keg that's just waiting to explode in our faces.

So once again "where do we draw the line?"xx

PS Op. You look fabulous and I hope you find all you're looking for xx

Okay, you are totally allowed to identify anyway you chose to which I am totally allowed to identify the way I want to.

However, I do think you have missed my point.

I need to make to make this VERY CLEAR:

Notice how everyone has HAD to mention my own personal appearance even though I did not bring my appearance into debate?"

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

[Removed by poster at 05/01/16 21:43:46]

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Just to add my pennies worth too... Not sure if this matters but studies have shown that men who are attracted to a ts have the same chemical reaction / brain activity as they do when attracted to a woman... Regardless of what's between the legs.

Men that are attracted to cd /TV have a similar chemical reaction and brain activity to that of a homosexual or bisexual person. That may help with the people who question why straight men search for ts's on this site.

As someone has already mentioned I too have met with many transgender women but have no interested in cd/TV... A separation on the site would save me a lot of time.

And also, a like button would also be fab!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

As much as i agree transsexuals should have their own heading.

There aint arf some stereo typical garbage being spouted here.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

https://www.fabswingers.com/forum/introductions/461393

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

The very existence of the TV/TS category comes from societal beliefs that trans women are not real women and trans men are not real men. It's fine for anyone to have a preference but as the OP points out, trans people are regularly murdered for not being what their partner assumed them to be.

The best answer politically would be not to have a category at all and label everyone M F or Mixed (for non-binary people like me) but it's the same as putting height, age or racial preferences on here. Users need to be able to search because we all have our own preferences (prejudices?)

We could argue forever about where to draw the lines and how many of them to draw, but this one has become a lot clearer since Freud miscategorised trans people 100 years ago leading to a century of unnecessary suffering.

I'm sure the OP is aware TVs/CDs are as often as not, transseuals in waiting and we should be careful about making it look like we're labelling them "mere" fetishists, just as Dr Freud would have done to all of us.

If the site does change this, I think it should be to ensure better matching of members with potential playmates, not to alleviate our irritated political sensibilities! xxx

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Nearly every trannsexual women that has been murdered is not by a partner. it is through pulling a trick with a punter whom believes she is a female.Whilst she is operating in prostitution as a pre op.

The best thing for them to do is to be honest about their history as a transsexual for the benefit of them, and any potential partners. I don't see the relevance of that in this discussion though.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Just to add my pennies worth too... Not sure if this matters but studies have shown that men who are attracted to a ts have the same chemical reaction / brain activity as they do when attracted to a woman... Regardless of what's between the legs.

nonsense.

Mena are attracted to transsexuals or tvs because they have a penis. Thats what excites them. The fact they are feminine and attractive just elevates the appeal.

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By *eordie JoJoTV/TS
over a year ago

Newcastle

This old chestnut keeps resurfacing and nothing gets done so another pointless thread.

Just gives the doylems and ignorant folk the chance to talk a whole load of verbal shit!

Some of the comments are comical but in all ....we all have our own views on the matter but regardless of what they are.... Fab ain't changed it yet and another "hundredth" post on the subject.

JoJo X

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

It's hardly being ignorant and I'm by no means attempting to drag the transvestite community through the mud. It just does not sit right with me that the two things that are not related are put together to pander to cis people. If this is the hundredth time this subject has come up then there is obviously a problem.

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By *eordie JoJoTV/TS
over a year ago

Newcastle

"It's hardly being ignorant and I'm by no means attempting to drag the transvestite community through the mud. It just does not sit right with me that the two things that are not related are put together to pander to cis people. If this is the hundredth time this subject has come up then there is obviously a problem."

Sorry Hun I wansnt talking about ignorance and your original thread.... It's some of the replies in the forum I'm talking about. Everyone has the right to raise their points of view as hence why it's a forum for discussion.

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By *adystephanieTV/TS
over a year ago

glos

Alektra, my reference was not to you personally, I think you have a valid point and have delivered it in a rational manner, but it cannot help your cause when 'Other' transsexuals feel the only way they can be heard is by abusing mainstream members on here over other issues that seem always to end up as gender wars.

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By *bsinthe_boyMan
over a year ago

Luton

I am attracted to women, regardless of what is between their legs.

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By *S RachaelTV/TS
over a year ago

Lowestoft

Transvestites neither need, nor want, medical intervention.

It just frustrates me to no end when I have someone presuming I must be a transvestite - which I kinda would rather be as taking off a costume seems a much more easier road than being transsexual.

Hi alektrya

Yes. Of course you're right. Not sure about the scientific bits but they're not even nearly the same. Maybe post op TSs should put themselves down as woman and mention in prof.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Im attracted to men that are attracted to trans. The ones that are straight up about the fact i have cock and it floats their boat.

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By *S RachaelTV/TS
over a year ago

Lowestoft

Oh yes. I am not a tranny nor a crossdresser nor a man in a frock. I am a transvestite. But even that is not correct. When I an dressed I think of myself as a woman not just dressed up. I am woman and man.. Intersexed

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By *vanabeusedTV/TS
over a year ago

somewhere

Completely agree , a good point well put x

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By *uited staffs guyMan
over a year ago

staffordshire

Clearly if a post op TS creates a female profile as above and states it in their profile then, assuming the person has read the profile (not always a given I know!), then no-one can have any issues about not knowing when they contact

The only problem would be for the men who want to search for a TS and will find it difficult to find them in amongst the female profiles

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By *S RachaelTV/TS
over a year ago

Lowestoft

[Removed by poster at 06/01/16 16:19:57]

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By *S RachaelTV/TS
over a year ago

Lowestoft

"Clearly if a post op TS creates a female profile as above and states it in their profile then, assuming the person has read the profile (not always a given I know!), then no-one can have any issues about not knowing when they contact

The only problem would be for the men who want to search for a TS and will find it difficult to find them in amongst the female profiles "

Yes that would be a problem but you can get over that in the advanced search. To me a TS is a woman.

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By *LCCCouple
over a year ago

Cambridge

The only problem would be for the men who want to search for a TS and will find it difficult to find them in amongst the female profiles

Yes that would be a problem but you can get over that in the advanced search. To me a TS is a woman."

Even the female to male ones?

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By *eordie JoJoTV/TS
over a year ago

Newcastle

Here's me and my 2penith!

I'm tired of TS disrespecting TV's and CD's ... Or again grouping categories together as "hairy pantie wearer blokes" this isn't the case as the spectrum is far wider than that! ... Me personally ... Have a full wardrobe of clothes most women would be proud of and I ain't got a "hair" on my body! I'm 6ft 3 with 32 inch legs and size 6-8 dress size with silcone tits (no padding or tissue here!) when you talk about the "differences" between the 2 .... Then the majority of this is "in the head" and the thought process that go with it! (Which to be fair most men on here.... Look at pictures and rarely read profiles) so looking at a TS and for agruement sake ME.... From our pics .... What is the difference as i can give most TS looks wise a run for their money.... Unless your post op and had the your dick removed (which then in my eyes yours a woman) I think someone in a previous post hit the nail on the head .... State exactly what you are in your profile... That way no confusion can be had (and if it is then it's the individuals fault for not reading) ... I also truly believe that some on here couldn't sleep str8 in bed ... Therefore those who are TV's or CD's ... Who's to say they won't "fib" and state their TS's ... Who going to police it?! ... We talk about intergration not segregation. But to be honest ... There will always be a outcry regardless how it's "set up" as gender isnt as fluid as black and white and it must be virtual impossible to please all the people regardless what happens. Anyway I've kicked my soap box away .... And I'm winding my neck in ..., but good luck and best wishes to all

JoJo x x

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I am a ladyboy!!

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By *adystephanieTV/TS
over a year ago

glos

Having known several transsexuals from both male and female origin including one close friend I realise it is a long and arduous journey to the end of their chosen path.

After their initial consultations and diagnosis they are helped along that path by the many professionals in various fields that need to be involved, it seems to me that this process fails in only one detail....it fails to give that person a clear gender identity that they can use throughout the society in which they live and work, as whether from male or female origin the person cannot be genetically classed as the gender they actually would like to be or believe they are( I am not going to complicate this further by relating to dual gender births) and those who are genetically male or female will on the whole never want them to be.

So if you think this is straying a little from the topic, it's a bit like seperating Tv's from Ts's we think it's a great idea to have separate identities but do we actually,as a tiny minority, have the right to demand that society accept the choices we make ....

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By *heOwlMan
over a year ago

Altrincham

"Having known several transsexuals from both male and female origin including one close friend I realise it is a long and arduous journey to the end of their chosen path.

Quick answer, yes of course you do.

We are supposed to live in a free(ish) society and in this day and age there really should not be any excuse for any part of our mixed society to feel excluded or marginalised, just because they arn't a big enough group.

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By *adystephanieTV/TS
over a year ago

glos

"Having known several transsexuals from both male and female origin including one close friend I realise it is a long and arduous journey to the end of their chosen path.

Quick answer, yes of course you do.

Whereas I totally agree with you, and do actually believe society is moving this way, I personally believe if you do not define a space for an individual group and afford them their rights by lawful identity, it is always going to be difficult for them to integrate....

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By *osieWoman
over a year ago

Wembley

"Having known several transsexuals from both male and female origin including one close friend I realise it is a long and arduous journey to the end of their chosen path.

Quick answer, yes of course you do.

Forgive me for butting in but all of you (TV and TS) have acquired lawful identity

I was comparing your Gender Recognition Act with ours (German). Did you know that surgery is not a requirement under your laws to have your birth certificate issued in the correct gender. It is a requirement in Germany

I went on an Equalaties update course. It is a mandatory course which everyone (and that includes our CEO) at work has to attend. So you can imagine how seriously these matters are now taken. Did you know that gender reassignment is a protected category and again it does not demand surgery

So the differences between yourselves, under your laws, are marginal

But I can see the OP's point too. She feels that she does not have a choice in changing genders (so to speak) at will. She is now female (I am assuming she cannot revert because she has undergone the surgical procedures) whereas some of you can and do

I don't want to put words in her mouth but it is for this reason, that she would like a separate category for herself

I would have (just as a previous poster) felt that her correct category will be female on this site with a one line explanation on her profile. And in the big wide word, her correct category would be female with n further explanations necessary

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

Wow, I should have paid more attention to this thread. Now I have a lot to go through.

Rachel: by your description that you have giving me I presume you are actually trans if this is not a thing you do to just put on a costume. Perhaps your non-binary - but its still a trans issue rather than a transvestite one.

Transvestite

noun

a person, typically a man, who derives pleasure from dressing in clothes appropriate to the opposite sex.

Now...

As I stated previously, being trans is not about wearing clothing. Its not about the way you look and its not about any surgical procedures. Being trans is a condition.

I am a transsexual, and I'm quite proud to be one. We have been told for years that we are shameful to society and only recently have started to get a voice. And we will scream the fucking house down - believe you me.

So telling me to just put my profile as "female" and just mention in the about me section that I am transsexual is just conforming to standards that society has oppressed us with for years. I am a Transsexual. I am not a transvestite just as the transvestite community are not transsexuals. I’m not going to say I am exclusively female, as many in my community have had to do for years before me. We ain’t doing that anymore, we want to celebrate our differences and be proud to be trans.

So why are we grouped together? it's two different cultures crammed into one and who is it for? If you think it is for us then that is stupid. They have grouped us both together to pander to cis people who fancy a little spooky. We deserve better than that.

On one hand trans people should not be compared to transvestites just as a transvestite should not have the rest of the mainstream accuse them of wanting to change gender just because of aesthetic gender expression.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

Geordie, it wouldnt need anyone to police it. People would be free to change their sex category themselves. They can do it now. Example, if I changed my sex category to male, female or TV/TS nobody would do anything about it.

This is a gender identity issue, which is quite frankly a personal one. I don't give two craps whatever man attempts to search for this/or/that and finds this/or/that.

I am a TS, I am not a TV. Therefore we should be able to identify ourselves accordingly.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

Josie: I have not spoke about my own body. This has nothing to do wherever I am Pre or Post op.

Everyone else: this has nothing to do with aesthetics. I can not stress this enough.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Fabguys.

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By *adystephanieTV/TS
over a year ago

glos

The word Trans is a little confusing ...

Trans vestite

Trans sexual

Trans gender

I have only known it to be used as a group title myself I don't believe it relates only to transsexuals.

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By *osieWoman
over a year ago

Wembley

"Josie: I have not spoke about my own body. This has nothing to do wherever I am Pre or Post op.

Everyone else: this has nothing to do with aesthetics. I can not stress this enough."

I would not enquire of your body. That is your private business and of no one else's

I was merely 'reinforcing' the 'case' for TS classification

There are a couple of female profiles I have seen here where the women clearly state that they have undergone surgery. However, I can also accept that some may wish a separate classification from 'female' and that is ofcourse their personal choice

I will leave this thread now as a little knowledge is a dangerous thing and this subject matter is quite complex for an outsider to get to grips with

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

TBh i wouldn't mind a different list of classifications also. Because im sick of being cooped up with 18 stone guy's in joke shop wigs who wank themselves furiously whilst covered in peanut butter.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"The word Trans is a little confusing ...

Trans vestite

Trans sexual

Trans gender

I have only known it to be used as a group title myself I don't believe it relates only to transsexuals. "

transperson

'tranzp??s

noun

noun: trans person

a person who is transgender or transsexual.

"a female-to-male transperson"

Transgender people experience a mismatch between their gender identity or gender expression and their assigned sex.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

transwoman

'tranzw?m?n/

noun

noun: trans-woman

a male-to-female transsexual.

transman

'tranzman/

noun

a female-to-male transsexual.

So Trans is usually used when referring to transsexuals and non binary.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I use trans as a general term.

I like lifestyle trans for myself. But don't wish to be classed as transsexual or transgender and certainly not non binary. Infact wish to be dissociated with any of the current gender philosophy or dysphoria because of my behaviour and lifestyle choice.

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By *adystephanieTV/TS
over a year ago

glos

I understand the dictionary meaning ......which is not the way it seems to be used widely within the community for some reason ....

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

I Think the meaning can be interpreted depending on each individual. Its subjective, therefore I would not exactly be hard on anyone using it for their own personal definition. But I personally use the word trans as [trans]sexual part of it suggests it to be a sexual orientation. When its a gender identity one. But such is life.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"TBh i wouldn't mind a different list of classifications also. Because im sick of being cooped up with 18 stone guy's in joke shop wigs who wank themselves furiously whilst covered in peanut butter.

Who have as much right to ask Respect for their sexual practises as you do for yours. Hypocrisy as usual. If you're not happy. Just like the barebackers, go make your own website.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"TBh i wouldn't mind a different list of classifications also. Because im sick of being cooped up with 18 stone guy's in joke shop wigs who wank themselves furiously whilst covered in peanut butter.

Who have as much right to ask Respect for their sexual practises as you do for yours. Hypocrisy as usual. If you're not happy. Just like the barebackers, go make your own website."

I dont mind them one bit...if it foats their boat..Great get on with it! I just don't like being cooped up with them in the same category as I feel they discredit me as a person.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"I dont mind them one bit...if it foats their boat..Great get on with it! I just don't like being cooped up with them in the same category as I feel they discredit me as a person."

Some transsexuals would also do stuff like that... I think this is a different topic and a different perspective to the point I was originally trying to make.But, okay thats your opinion. But I like the idea of progress.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"TBh i wouldn't mind a different list of classifications also. Because im sick of being cooped up with 18 stone guy's in joke shop wigs who wank themselves furiously whilst covered in peanut butter.

Who have as much right to ask Respect for their sexual practises as you do for yours. Hypocrisy as usual. If you're not happy. Just like the barebackers, go make your own website.

I dont mind them one bit...if it foats their boat..Great get on with it! I just don't like being cooped up with them in the same category as I feel they discredit me as a person."

Because they're not pretty? Because they think the world would laugh at a fat transwoman? Because they never had the guts to say to the world i Believe I'm female? Its fabswingers. Not fab niche's. Seriously fabguys. Go there complain there.

Do me a favour, Next time you're surrounded by transwomen have a good look around. Ask yourself this question. "Do natural females dress like this and behave like this? Or am i in a subculture."

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"TBh i wouldn't mind a different list of classifications also. Because im sick of being cooped up with 18 stone guy's in joke shop wigs who wank themselves furiously whilst covered in peanut butter.

Who have as much right to ask Respect for their sexual practises as you do for yours. Hypocrisy as usual. If you're not happy. Just like the barebackers, go make your own website.

I dont mind them one bit...if it foats their boat..Great get on with it! I just don't like being cooped up with them in the same category as I feel they discredit me as a person.

Do me a favour, Next time you're surrounded by transwomen have a good look around. Ask yourself this question. "Do natural females dress like this and behave like this? Or am i in a subculture.""

No.

It's because im allergic to peanut butter.

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By *adystephanieTV/TS
over a year ago

glos

"I dont mind them one bit...if it foats their boat..Great get on with it! I just don't like being cooped up with them in the same category as I feel they discredit me as a person.

I'm understanding this a little more I guess ...thank you.

What classification or title would you like to use for those transgendered if fab's were to agree to split this category ?

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By *adystephanieTV/TS
over a year ago

glos

I hate peanut butter .....yukkkk

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

[Removed by poster at 06/01/16 23:58:37]

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"Do me a favour, Next time you're surrounded by transwomen have a good look around. Ask yourself this question. "Do natural females dress like this and behave like this? Or am i in a subculture.""

Actually I'm really, really intrigued. I would LOOOOVE for you to tell me how I act? and how I dress?

Like, I'm talking about in RL, not going by my overly made up pictures on fabswingers and lingerie... which I do not think is exclusive to just transsexuals...

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Do me a favour, Next time you're surrounded by transwomen have a good look around. Ask yourself this question. "Do natural females dress like this and behave like this? Or am i in a subculture.""

Have you seen the way some women go out in newcastle??

I tell you what?...you and your peanut butter can get the fuck.

Because im happy with the way i go out in public, and more than happy im part of a subculture.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Transvestites neither need, nor want, medical intervention.

It just frustrates me to no end when I have someone presuming I must be a transvestite - which I kinda would rather be as taking off a costume seems a much more easier road than being transsexual.

Not this again

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By *teve_it_aloneMan
over a year ago

Dunfermline

"Because they're not pretty? Because they think the world would laugh at a fat transwoman? Because they never had the guts to say to the world i Believe I'm female? Its fabswingers. Not fab niche's. Seriously fabguys. Go there complain there.

Do me a favour, Next time you're surrounded by transwomen have a good look around. Ask yourself this question. "Do natural females dress like this and behave like this? Or am i in a subculture.""

Get off YOUR high horse and stop being such a prig.

I've been on fabguys. It has its uses. You know what it's missing? Lesbian and bisexual transwomen. Which pigeon hole would you put them in?

I happen to be a bi cis guy. I'm lucky. The current categories fit me in perfectly. However, lumping "TV" in with "TS" serves no purpose for anyone.

As a bi cis guy who finds a woman beautiful whether she has a cock, balls or neither, it is helpful to be able to differentiate those who are female, but weren't born with the external genitals to match versus those who dress up to have sex with other men, as much as it it is helpful to differentiate between women and men. I find both women and men attractive, but I'd be kidding myself if I said that sometimes I didn't have a preference for one or other at a given moment.

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By *mooothTV/TS
over a year ago

near Cambridge

Going back to the original premise, you can be sure that as soon as you differentiate between Transsexuals and Tranvestites there'll be posts in the forum complaining about where the line is drawn. Pre-op? Post-op? Post-op but keeping the male genitals? It's a sliding scale of femininity. Don't forget, those who wear clothes of the opposite sex are transvestites to those who don't. Only the wearer of those clothes knows if they are transsexual AS WELL!

That's the problem with labels... Onlookers have to be educated.

Even if you separated them on the site, the complaints would still happen because so many onlookers don't understand the subtleties... They just see a cock in a frock..... Oopsy! There's an pantyclad arse in the air... Oooopsy!

So long as both Transsexual peeps and Transvestites post the same style of pics, why ask for different categories?

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By *teve_it_aloneMan
over a year ago

Dunfermline

"Even if you separated them on the site, the complaints would still happen because so many onlookers don't understand the subtleties...

...So long as both Transsexual peeps and Transvestites post the same style of pics, why ask for different categories?

Because surely it isn't about the onlookers. A transsexual person is not the same as a transvestite. A transsexual person is not wearing clothes "opposite" to their gender, surely they are wearing a body opposite to their gender.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

Exactly. This has nothing to do with how you identify me, it's upto me to identify myself. As I said earlier, the approach that it is at the moment serves to pander to a certain group of people rather than the people that are actually identified themselves. Pre op or post op they are both transsexuals.

What do you mean post the same type of pictures? Hyper sexualised ones? You have seen the other profiles on this website surely.

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By *riendly FiresCouple
over a year ago

Beverley

Transvestites neither need, nor want, medical intervention.

It just frustrates me to no end when I have someone presuming I must be a transvestite - which I kinda would rather be as taking off a costume seems a much more easier road than being transsexual.

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By *mooothTV/TS
over a year ago

near Cambridge

Non transexuals/transvestites make up the largest group on this site. They are the onlookers. Until you educate them, not rant at them, then they will view posts like this as nothing more than a humorous cat-fight!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I do agree with you and I think your pics are great but before having a little tiz, you could put in your profile a little more detail, as I have seen some very convincing crossdressers and as you say have completely different agendas. They still want to be men where as transexuals are correcting or at least trying to correct the misfortune of being born in the wrong body and go through a lot of emotional and physical pain to become who they deserve to be.also think once gone through a complete change of gendershould put yourselves down as a woman or man and put in profile your details, just a thought x

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Maybe fab should just remove the categorie all together. It would save argument. Then seperate them correctly on fabguys. If a transwoman has become a legal female she would be welcome to select female here on fabswingers. At the moment. Tv/ts/cd are fortunate that they are the only group who have their kink separated out on fab. You dont see other men saying "I dont want to be a just man I'm a bull/cuck/sub"

At the end of the day you're a cd or a legal woman. Celebrate the fact that at the moment there is somewhere that you can explore your sexuality rather than moaning about it Constantly. Which frankly turns people off you.

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By *osieWoman
over a year ago

Wembley

"Maybe fab should just remove the categorie all together. It would save argument. Then seperate them correctly on fabguys. If a transwoman has become a legal female she would be welcome to select female here on fabswingers. At the moment. Tv/ts/cd are fortunate that they are the only group who have their kink separated out on fab. You dont see other men saying "I dont want to be a just man I'm a bull/cuck/sub"

You should be ashamed of yourself. Talking sense when I haven't even finished my first cup of coffee. It is people like you who ruin it for everyone here

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By *ikki ShooterTV/TS
over a year ago

Epsom

For two weeks this thread has been going and I myself have loved the fact that on the whole it hasn't been a slagging match. I would actually call it enlightening.

But what I ask myself is:

Have Fab even listened, or is this all tears in the rain?

Are we likely to see change?

Have we even see a comment from the Fab team or are they hoping that this thread burns itself out so nothing gets done!

Someone mentioned Fabguys! But unless they stop the forum being hidden more securely than CIA black ops, then there is nowhere else to talk.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Someone mentioned Fabguys! But unless they stop the forum being hidden more securely than CIA black ops, then there is nowhere else to talk.

Seems like a lot of fuss just for forum use then. There must be some more focused internet forums that separate? Does faxebook separate male female trans?

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By *LCCCouple
over a year ago

Cambridge

"Exactly. This has nothing to do with how you identify me, it's upto me to identify myself. As I said earlier, the approach that it is at the moment serves to pander to a certain group of people rather than the people that are actually identified themselves. Pre op or post op they are both transsexuals.

What do you mean post the same type of pictures? Hyper sexualised ones? You have seen the other profiles on this website surely. "

I don't think that the TS/TV category was created to pander to cisgendered people. I imagine it was created many years ago by a cis gendered person who probably didn't give it much thought.

You say it should be upto the people who fall into the category of TS/TV who decide which category they are in, which I completely agree with. As someone not in that community, as an outsider, I would have thought that the community would have supported the split. But reading through the thread, there seem to be as many people with TS/TV next to their profile name saying keep it the same as there are people saying seperate it, and this has surprised me.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

[quote

. TS although born as genetic males are not men , the rest of us sissies ( I like the old word) CDs TVs etc are . So following that logic they must be given a seperate category .

Oh I'm only talking m/f ts most f/m I know present themselves as male , though I accept some dont, on a meeting site as this you cannot group together those who present as male and those who present as female together , as for intersexed was not treading into that minefield.

As for all the other men that dress , ( I do not include trans women in that description ) then whether they are slim convincing feminine goddess's ( OK in their minds , frequently not in real life ) or 18 stone fat hairy men wearing undies , whether they call themselves sissies , transvestites , cross dressers or whatever , they are just " men in frocks" alibiet in different stages in development or with a different mindset . We " others " all just fit happily or otherwise into the TV/CD category , there is no heirarchy no one is better than another . However I have seen many men in frocks especially those using "tgirl" ( I hate that web creation) who assume a superiority over others.

Too many take themselves too seriously. God, sometimes I just want to go back to pre web days when those if us who were out there just pretending were few are far between. I used to be only sissy in the village , since the web every man and his brother seems to wear a bloody frock and few seem happy doing it!

Granted, some are born genetic males but some are also born genetic females... and some are just intersexed.

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By *oanne_MacTV/TS
over a year ago

Perth

Some people just dont get it at all do they, worryingly even some from within the trans community.....

Being trans isn't a kink, its part of the persons identity.

Post op doesnt still have the genitals they had at birth. They have had the operation. Hence the term post op.

Fabguys has fuck all to do with anything, it is full of gay or Bi men and some like to wank off in tights, doesn't make them trans in the slightest.

For people not under the trans umbrella what difference does it make to your lifes ifthe categories are seperated?... aabsolutely none! It wont affect you if anything it might help to lessen the prejudice if it educates some people that there's a difference...

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By *oanne_MacTV/TS
over a year ago

Perth

And for people within the the TS/TV category.... if it doesnt bother you if TS and TV dont have a different category then it wont bother you to list yourself as TV and let the TS choose their category for

themselves will it?

Everyones different and others could do with just learning to respect that.

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By *oanne_MacTV/TS
over a year ago

Perth

"Exactly. This has nothing to do with how you identify me, it's upao me to identify myself. As I said earlier, the approach that it is at the moment serves to pander to a certain group of people rather than the people that are actually identified themselves. Pre op or post op they are both transsexuals.

What do you mean post the same type of pictures? Hyper sexualised ones? You have seen the other profiles on this website surely.

I don't think that the TS/TV category was created to pander to cisgendered people. I imagine it was created many years ago by a cis gendered person who probably didn't give it much thought.

Pretty much spot on id say.

Re the disagreement from within, those saying change it are the ones who are TS or identify as TG or having some gender dysphoria. Those saying leave it are those who happily identify as TV/CD or a fwtish dresser..

Personally myself id put myself somewhere between TV and TS, I dont want to transition so im not TS but I dont just dress for a kink, fetish or whatever for me its highly social, relaxes me and settles a part of me thats always eating away at me...

Im not better than a TV/CD and im not lesser than a TS im just different and theres many like me. The term Tgirl was coined to encompass people who feel this way in the abscence of a dedicated category. Nothing to do with a feeling of superiority as alleged by someone on this thread...

I dont think it would kill fab to just take note and seperate TS and TV, a middle category would be nice TG or similiar but if it didnt happen id list as TV and have a wee tagline on profile describing myself

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

If you think you are a female register as female. Surely that's the answer? Or do you feel you need the trans badge ?

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By *adystephanieTV/TS
over a year ago

glos

[Removed by poster at 07/01/16 10:49:03]

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By *adystephanieTV/TS
over a year ago

glos

I have supported the rights, and quite loudly at times, of the TV/TS community from before the Op was born and have seen many changes, whereas we as a community have we evolved together it now seems the new age transsexual is a little more demanding than in my day ....I have many transsexual friends including some in the early stages of their transition, whom I socialise with frequently, but they seem far more chilled than those I've heard from on this site, in fact I'm quite surprised at the rather aggressive stance some have displayed on here, and I am not referring to the op here, although I support the split it is for no other reason than giving them their own space to develop as I no longer feel I can support their ever increasing demands on mainstream society.........

In society I believe you have to earn respect and cannot demand it!

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By *osieWoman
over a year ago

Wembley

"I have supported the rights, and quite loudly at times, of the TV/TS community from before the Op was born and have seen many changes, whereas we as a community have we evolved together it now seems the new age transsexual is a little more demanding than in my day ....I have many transsexual friends including some in the early stages of their transition, whom I socialise with frequently, but they seem far more chilled than those I've heard from on this site, in fact I'm quite surprised at the rather aggressive stance some have displayed on here, and I am not referring to the op here, although I support the split it is for no other reason than giving them their own space to develop as I no longer feel I can support their ever increasing demands on mainstream society.........

In society I believe you have to earn respect and cannot demand it! "

Mainstream society will continue to support as long as there are moderate voices, such as yours, within your community

It is not support as a favour. Just to draw an analogy; mainstream society supported disabled rights because it was the decent thing to do and not because we had to

People, like yourself, should be more active in voicing your opinions; otherwise, only the militant opinion is heard which is never a good thing as nobody wants to be railroaded into changing their lifestyle just to suit any minority

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Transvestites neither need, nor want, medical intervention.

It just frustrates me to no end when I have someone presuming I must be a transvestite - which I kinda would rather be as taking off a costume seems a much more easier road than being transsexual.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

[Removed by poster at 07/01/16 12:16:35]

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

[Removed by poster at 07/01/16 12:17:57]

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

" Tv/ts/cd are fortunate that they are the only group who have their kink separated out on fab. You dont see other men saying "I dont want to be a just man I'm a bull/cuck/sub"

You know, I can't comprehend why you are even commenting on trans issues when it is extremely blatant that you know absolutely nothing about trans issues considering that very ignorant comment alone. In fact you have done nothing more than reinforced my original reason as to why I wrote this fourm in the first place. You can't even differentiate between them.

Its like that white guy who goes to race equality meetings and then tells the many ethnic groups that they are all from the same minority.

As for the moaning aspect. No one is moaning about anything, we are talking about an issue that will get heated. This is how things are and how groups of people progress. Its how its always been when it comes to minority groups. And if that turns people off me? I don't particularly care!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Just as well.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"Just as well."

Ain't fuckin' with my inbox haha

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

" Tv/ts/cd are fortunate that they are the only group who have their kink separated out on fab. You dont see other men saying "I dont want to be a just man I'm a bull/cuck/sub"

Its like that white guy who goes to race equality meetings and then tells the many ethnic groups that they are all from the same minority.

He like his men to be be men. And his women to be women. It keeps him all warm and fuzzy

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

Yeah well life is not so cookie cut like that, hence the reason why intersexed and trans people are coming into the spotlight.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I stated my dislike of the term tgirl which is a web creation from America with its origins in tranny porn. Now as someone who worked in porn starting pre web , I have no problem with any tranny who wishes to identify themselves that way

so just carry on!

Joking apart I made no allegation but stated an undisputed fact that within TV/CD and all its subdivisions there have always been those individuals who look down on others just I may add as elsewhere in life. In our strange incestous tranny World the ones most up their own arses tend to have " tgirl " in their ids or somewhere on profile. Many who do are of course innocent as charged and are I'm sure perfectly lovely.

However while agreeing m/f transexuals should be given a seperate category let's not get carried away. You say you are somewhere in between TV and TS !! No such thing Dear . Yes I agree you are transgendered just as I am but when it comes to categories your either in the transvestite camp or your a transexual.

Sorry , but that's what happens when you wear a frock ,someone thinks up a label for you .

Don't we all love labels?

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By *adystephanieTV/TS
over a year ago

glos

Alektrya, I'm really struggling to make sense of things here, you have given your reason to split the Tv/Ts category here on fabs, whereas I do understand that and your reasons, your profile really does not mention you are a transsexual and are proud of that fact.

The only thing you seem to say about yourself (and people do indeed read profiles) is that your hobby is 'cosmetic' procedures and ignoring your mail.......

If you really wanted to move your case forward I would think others would be more inclined to take you seriously if there was a little more substance to you as a person, sorry if this offends but I see like many others will do, a bit of a rant by a rather invisible person.

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By *oanne_MacTV/TS
over a year ago

Perth

We'll just have to agree to disagree then. I'm certainly not up my own arse about things, personally I'd say a TV (and not the outdated often quoted description) is somewhere between a CD and a TS as most TVs make an effort to look fem, whereas many CDs dont. But thats another debate altogether...

so just carry on!

Sorry , but that's what happens when you wear a frock ,someone thinks up a label for you .

Don't we all love labels?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Stepahnie, no to be fair she gives all the information needed to suit her intended purpose for being a member here. Would you rather she produced one of those War and Peace epistles favoured by many with one of those female shapes on it?

The girl posts pics so people can see what she looks like including hair of some colour I can identify.

What we put on our profiles is often complete nonsense. My current profile here is quite new (having deleted my last one) and I reinvent myself every month of so. Today I am a sub sissy , who knows next month I might morph into a TV DOMME

or something just as daft

She has stated her case, her profile has all the mandatory information , why need she add more ?

Just keep people guessing , don't lay it all out there .

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

The part of my profile that says "split up TV/TS" had "Transsexual" written in the subheading, but that did not even make the slightest bit of difference so I've changed it as I wrote this.

I also had a biography written on it at one point with my views and again that made no difference either. Therefore I decided to be more tongue in cheek and poke fun at the amount of people that email me at least 5 times telling me how rude I am because I don't respond back to mail, as for the cosmetic procedures remark, I am going through quite a lot of them at the moment as well as the coming months therefore I am not currently meeting people from this website.

Also, this post is not really about me, it's about a community of people.

But the point of this thread still remains the same and my own personal biography does not change that fact.

Transsexualism is not the same as a transvestite.

One is a medical condition/Gender identity that [sometimes - depending on the individual] requires help and intervention from health officials and the other one is role play.

My personal personality, looks or whatever has nothing to do with this fact.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Joan, I would not suggest for a moment that anyone from Methven was up their own arse. Maybe Almondbank yes , but it's much posher.

Anyway isn't that what men are for?

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By *adystephanieTV/TS
over a year ago

glos

"Stepahnie, no to be fair she gives all the information needed to suit her intended purpose for being a member here. Would you rather she produced one of those War and Peace epistles favoured by many with one of those female shapes on it?

The girl posts pics so people can see what she looks like including hair of some colour I can identify.

or something just as daft

She has stated her case, her profile has all the mandatory information , why need she add more ?

Just keep people guessing , don't lay it all out there .

Then be taken lightly .....simple

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By *adystephanieTV/TS
over a year ago

glos

"The part of my profile that says "split up TV/TS" had "Transsexual" written in the subheading, but that did not even make the slightest bit of difference so I've changed it as I wrote this.

Also, this post is not really about me, it's about a community of people.

But the point of this thread still remains the same and my own personal biography does not change that fact.

Transsexualism is not the same as a transvestite.

One is a medical condition/Gender identity that [sometimes - depending on the individual] requires help and intervention from health officials and the other one is role play.

My personal personality, looks or whatever has nothing to do with this fact.

Well I guess poking fun at people will truly support your cause ...

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

The girl posts pics so people can see what she looks like including hair of some colour I can identify.

or something just as daft

She has stated her case, her profile has all the mandatory information , why need she add more ?

Just keep people guessing , don't lay it all out there .

Then be taken lightly .....simple"

Snort

That'll be a unique experience , still as long as I am taken I wont complain.

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By *adystephanieTV/TS
over a year ago

glos

The girl posts pics so people can see what she looks like including hair of some colour I can identify.

or something just as daft

She has stated her case, her profile has all the mandatory information , why need she add more ?

Just keep people guessing , don't lay it all out there .

Then be taken lightly .....simple

Snort

That'll be a unique experience , still as long as I am taken I wont complain.

Actually you have a rather complete profile now I've read it ......not one that keeps people guessing I would say

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

Also, I would like to clear this up on why I am having a issue with this.

On this website, I am constantly having people call me a TV. Fabswingers was one of the first safe spaces for both our communities back in the day, along with some other websites. It brought us into the mainstream, but whilst other websites have evolved Fabswingers has regressed and just stayed in one place. If there were separate categories it would send the message out that the two are not the same thing.

When I am called a transvestite by an uneducated person on this website - it takes away the years of struggling I had to go through to find acceptance, the depression, the self hatred when I looked in the mirror and the dysphoria that in itself caused.

I have found that over the years when this subject comes up on this website or other websites the people that have the opinions against it are either Cis males who self identify themselves as transvestites.

Why is that? What really would be the issue of both groups being able to flourish on their own? and why is it so bad that trans people are having a voice and then being accused of "moaning" - we deserve better because we exist. we are people. we are not fucking costumes or caricatures.

This is fundamentally an issue that runs off this website, but fabswingers taking part in it is also a problem in itself.

We have just seen *above* someone being unable to differentiate the two. If the two categories were to be split, I think it would prompt more people into finding out why the two are no longer marked down as the same thing.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Oh there's no guessing with my Wendy profiles. Whatever nonsense I write it has a distinct theme, but funny thing it elicits more admiration and compliments than the scorn and derision it actually deserves. Still struggling after a lifetime in frocks trying to work that out

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Alektrya , now I lose sympathy

"years of struggle" ...the girl barely old enough to be wearing high heels.

We old trannies are just jealous!

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"Alektrya , now I lose sympathy

"years of struggle" ...the girl barely old enough to be wearing high heels.

We old trannies are just jealous!"

Hahah well you know what I mean, which is a start.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Shit, I said "trannies" let me instantly before I incur the wrath of the genuine ts out there I refer only to tv/cd/ et al . Jesus when I was young and first went out we got called Jessies in Scotland. Never liked that name but played Wendy in school production of Peter Pan so name stuck

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Oh, I know where your coming from girl. I was in a relationship with a per op for some years then bounced into one with a tv for 10 years but who transitioned. I have lots ts friends , but have to say in nicest possible way , you lot are bloody hard work!

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By *adystephanieTV/TS
over a year ago

glos

"Shit, I said "trannies" let me instantly before I incur the wrath of the genuine ts out there I refer only to tv/cd/ et al . Jesus when I was young and first went out we got called Jessies in Scotland. Never liked that name but played Wendy in school production of Peter Pan so name stuck"

Ahhh that explains everything your both Scottish.....must be a kilt thing.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Huh! Only kilt this bitch has ever worn was my from sisters school uniform and that was way back in my teens.

Mind you , I've a current female fb who wears one , next time we meet a m/f couple she's wanting to go as the maid leaving me to be the schoolgirl! I ask you , at my age and my build! My big arse works fine in a maids dress , the petticoats give it balance, but in a girls kilt!!

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By *adystephanieTV/TS
over a year ago

glos

"Huh! Only kilt this bitch has ever worn was my from sisters school uniform and that was way back in my teens.

Pmsl ......you'll look great I'm sure

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Oh no , I just end up looking like something for fucking! Duh , just realised maybe that's point. Actually that's a whole new forum subject , why men want to shag mature sissies like me

its not me , just the whole fantasy thing. Or maybe they just like pumping bums?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

BTW, Stephanie written to you privately to apologise for my dig about Domme TVs, it was only after posting I thought it prudent to read your profile! So sorry publicly, I did not mean to deliver a personal slight.

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By *adystephanieTV/TS
over a year ago

glos

"BTW, Stephanie written to you privately to apologise for my dig about Domme TVs, it was only after posting I thought it prudent to read your profile! So sorry publicly, I did not mean to deliver a personal slight."

Haaaa don't be silly ....I was not in the least offended I've been on here too long so probably didn't even notice it

I usually get called far worse tho

No apology needed but thank you anyway xx

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By *anestockTV/TS
over a year ago

Greater Manchester

I enjoy going out dressed as a female as i have done for well over 40 years i,m a straight guy gender fluid looking for female fun and not looking to Transition . Many TS,s start out in the cross dressing mode then on to TV/TGirls before taking the Transsexual/surgery step But surely the best thing if your transsexual gender is to the female or Male side then you should be in that section but openly stating your a Post op or Pre op transsexual at your profile start then all callers to your page are aware of your status from the off. And if you want or not to discuss your surgery status ie upper or lower surgery that's up to you in private with the caller !

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By *adystephanieTV/TS
over a year ago

glos

This is one of the few threads on this particular subject that has mostly stayed on topic and not descended into the gender wars thing......which is rather refreshing.

As I have said many times I would support the categories to be split, which I think many would for different reasons, it may change attitudes for some but I'm sure not all ......

Then Rome was not built in a day.....

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Just as well.

Ain't fuckin' with my inbox haha"

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

The only sensible proposals on this thread have issued forth from Wendy Sutherlands venerable and well used rear.......

There could only be one finer proposal to add to this thread and that is for copious amounts of hard cock to be thrust up Wendys venerable rear ...... And mine too of course....

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By *arahsexTV/TS
over a year ago

Fife

Fantastic Darling absolutely hit that one spot on!!!!!!!!!!!! Unfortunately it wont stop the issue or the ignorants

Thanks for trying anyway

Sas xxx

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

We need Wendys nemesis to save the day....

Dame Tranzie Trotter, Patron of the Transvestites league of exceedingly Great Britain, that dastardly and diabolical radicalized clan of Men in frocks, the Ban the Willy Brigade, that uphold Castration,chastity and virginity as the bastions and pillars of our beloved and beleaguered Transwhateverlabeled community

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By *arahsexTV/TS
over a year ago

Fife

WHAO Darling!!!!!!!! if you say so...

What????? xxxxx

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I liked Wendys proposal for we Sissies to have an extra special section ten billion miles away fae all those crossdressy,shemaley, tranzy types.

Of course we would need to have a lengthy long winded dramatic heart rendering discussion about it, after all we Sissies have no rights, dont expect any being servile sluts, just spunk bags for men to use and abuse....

Aye what think ye Effeminate Men in Frocks, the grassroots Sissy....Should we servile slags in panties have a section of our own as our beloved Wendy Whorehole has suggested...

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By *arahsexTV/TS
over a year ago

Fife

Would it really matter Mara Darling.

As long as there is a HARD Cock ploughing my ass I don't really care xxxx Love ya great pics Darling.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Am sure HARD COCK would always be at the heart of any debate on we Sissies having a section of our own...

The best thing is we would not insult, ostracise or reject any other spectrum of the Men in Frocks Brigade, after all we are all Jessie Tamsons bairns

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

You can state on your profile wether you are tv or ts so I don't see the sense in the site trying to separate them further. I had the opposite problem that people assumed I was a ts and it got annoying having to explain and justify myself every two minutes so I tried to spell it out on my profile so problem solved.

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By *arahsexTV/TS
over a year ago

Fife

looking at your pics Laura it is VERY easy to see how you are mistaken for a TS or even RG You are stunning Darling keep up the good work..

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Common sense tae to me, guys dont need confusion or to feel intimidated by a few Trans with their heads stuck up their arses demanding this, that and the other, I have had no problem with any guy seeking meets about what I am ....

Fabswingers is wise in leaving it as it is...

Of course though I still think we should have a ten year debate on wether we should have a seperate section for we Sissies, Fabswingers can serve the whiskey and they cannies o Mcewans whilst we hae a song and dance aboot it

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By *arahsexTV/TS
over a year ago

Fife

Yes I see your partial to a wee McKewans or two Darling.... Me too if I'm honest or i'll stick to he Balvenie!!!! And YES just like Laura I can see why You have absolutely NO problem with your guys Mara!!!!! STUNNING Darling xxx

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By *argaret JamesTV/TS
over a year ago

Bromsgrove

"right? x its just so annoying, its 2015 now fab, transsexuals are now finally getting the spotlight in the media so this ignorance is no longer an excuse."

I sympathize with your anger but life is not that simple, I'm diagnosed as duel personality Mark is himself and so am I but our birth body is male, I would not ask Mark to change it in any way "well maybe lose some weight" but I look at transgender people and envy them, they have a solution weather they are brave enough to take it or not is their only delema. I have however found that transvestite/transgender is a whole bag of types from the hairy panty wearers to the wrong body person and to clasify anyone as anything is soo dangerous, Mark is a good soul his friends don't know me and I have never introduced him to mine, our lives are connected but seperate Marks wife knows about me and although she has never met me she understands the terrible turmoil we went through in early life the anger, confusion and self harm we now live at ease with each other and the one thing we would never do is classify anyone else as more/less than another person, sexual orientation is something quite diffetent.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Its hard to tell which fruit cakes won?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Its hard to tell which fruit cakes won?"

Ouch..

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Its hard to tell which fruit cakes won?

Ouch.."

Yeah thats what ET said.

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By *ikki ShooterTV/TS
over a year ago

Epsom

Five more posts and this will be a post closed for being too large.

It would seem that we have lost the Op. Shame as on the whole it was a good thread without the normal mud slinging. Maybe if the mods close it, the thread might get read!

Happy Friday people xx

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"The only sensible proposals on this thread have issued forth from Wendy Sutherlands venerable and well used rear.......

There could only be one finer proposal to add to this thread and that is for copious amounts of hard cock to be thrust up Wendys venerable rear ...... And mine too of course...."

Hey bitch ,you've just accused me of talking out of my arse! I can think of better uses for my bum.

Pity the op deleted her profile/ personally I think she made her point well and I would certainly agree m/f transexuals should be in a separate category here and in fact on any potential dating site. As for us sissies nae chance , on reflection we should just stay lumped along with all the other men in frocks to add colour and excitement to what otherwise be a pretty boring grey World

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By *inaTitzTV/TS
over a year ago

Titz Towers, North Notts

What constitutes a TS?

Someone who has had surgery?

Someone on hormones?

Someone who looks feminine in the eyes of the members of fab?

Someone who looks feminine in their own eyes?

Someone who believes they are TS?

Someone who thinks they are more female than male?

Someone who got out of bed on the left side that morning?

If Chix is anything to go by, within 5 minutes there will be people ticking the TS box whom most people wouldn't regard as actually being TS.

It would just come down to the same as we have now, does the person look like a pornstar? That seems to be the yardstick most of the people on here who want to meet go by.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

This is a profile based contact site for the swinging community...

We all join voluntarily ....

We all have to option to write a profile that clearly defines what we offer and expect as potential swinging partners

There is absolutely no reason any individual should feel misidentified or miscategorised because of a lack of tick box options when all that's needed is for members to provide clear and accurate profile content ,,,

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

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