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"OP touching without asking isn't only a thing from Asian men, in fact it's not only men that do it. There are disrespectful people of all genders and all ethnic origin. When people do touch without asking how do you deal with it? Do you report them to the club? If you don't then you send out the message that it is ok to behave this way and it perpetuates the problem. Club owners and staff can't put a stop to this kind of behaviour if they don't know about it." I reported one serious incident to one club, no action was taken by the club. | |||
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"Sex pests come from all countries and gave various skin colours. " | |||
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"I don't understand why some people have trouble with single guys in clubs, I never do. All you have to do is tell them exactly what you want. If you only want them to watch 'n' wank then just say so, they invariably do exactly what they're told. If you want them to touch then just guide their hands / cocks or whatever to the right place. I guess the problems arise when the guys just have no idea what a woman is expecting of them. If you don't want single guys at all - then what are you doing at a sex club on a mixed night? Go on a couples only night. Janet" Surely we shouldn't have to choose which night we go on though because of the small minority of single men that don't have decency to ask first before touching. If a female is playing and has her back to people, then how does she know that a man is going to touch her until it happens? | |||
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"Sex pests come from all countries and gave various skin colours. " Very true, we are in full agreement, but in our OP we did say that we are talking from our personal experience and our personal experiences have only been Asian men. | |||
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"I don’t go to clubs but surely nobody has the right to touch unless you give permission? You shouldn’t have to explain that, no matter who they are. " | |||
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"This is the very reason why we avoid clubs. Disrespectful people who are out for themselves will feel our wrath. Yeah, we’re missing out on opportunities blah blah blah. But there’s nothing sexy about being hounded by pests. Not the liaisons we wish to have. Mr" Not all us club goers are like that tho it’s a very small minority The rest of us are respectful and lovely | |||
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"This is the very reason why we avoid clubs. Disrespectful people who are out for themselves will feel our wrath. Yeah, we’re missing out on opportunities blah blah blah. But there’s nothing sexy about being hounded by pests. Not the liaisons we wish to have. Mr Not all us club goers are like that tho it’s a very small minority The rest of us are respectful and lovely " Yeah, just a shame that some clubs are more interested in profits, rather than confront sex pests. Think we’ll open our own club lol Mr x | |||
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"I don't understand why some people have trouble with single guys in clubs, I never do. All you have to do is tell them exactly what you want. If you only want them to watch 'n' wank then just say so, they invariably do exactly what they're told. If you want them to touch then just guide their hands / cocks or whatever to the right place. I guess the problems arise when the guys just have no idea what a woman is expecting of them. If you don't want single guys at all - then what are you doing at a sex club on a mixed night? Go on a couples only night. Janet" I think the problem was about guys touching without permission. We will attend a club on any night we choose, we will not be put off by the fact that guys are allowed to attend, but that doesn't then mean that this gives them carte blanche to grope or in any way approach us (by us I mean Jayne, no guy has ever touched me in this way, funny that lol) without first asking if we would welcome his interaction | |||
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"This is the very reason why we avoid clubs. Disrespectful people who are out for themselves will feel our wrath. Yeah, we’re missing out on opportunities blah blah blah. But there’s nothing sexy about being hounded by pests. Not the liaisons we wish to have. Mr" To be honest, over a decade or so of going to clubs I've only encountered this kind of stuff perhaps three or four times in total. And I've experienced it far, far, far more swinging on a one to one basis. | |||
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"This is the very reason why we avoid clubs. Disrespectful people who are out for themselves will feel our wrath. Yeah, we’re missing out on opportunities blah blah blah. But there’s nothing sexy about being hounded by pests. Not the liaisons we wish to have. Mr Not all us club goers are like that tho it’s a very small minority The rest of us are respectful and lovely Yeah, just a shame that some clubs are more interested in profits, rather than confront sex pests. Think we’ll open our own club lol Mr x" Haha yep have to agree with both counts | |||
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"I don't understand why some people have trouble with single guys in clubs, I never do. All you have to do is tell them exactly what you want. " The problem is that sometimes they don't give you the opportunity to tell them what you want, they just decide what *they* want and do it without your consent. | |||
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"This is the very reason why we avoid clubs. Disrespectful people who are out for themselves will feel our wrath. Yeah, we’re missing out on opportunities blah blah blah. But there’s nothing sexy about being hounded by pests. Not the liaisons we wish to have. Mr Not all us club goers are like that tho it’s a very small minority The rest of us are respectful and lovely " Exactly. The vast majority of people are extremely respectful. Please don't let this out anyone off from going to a club. | |||
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"This is the very reason why we avoid clubs. Disrespectful people who are out for themselves will feel our wrath. Yeah, we’re missing out on opportunities blah blah blah. But there’s nothing sexy about being hounded by pests. Not the liaisons we wish to have. Mr Not all us club goers are like that tho it’s a very small minority The rest of us are respectful and lovely Exactly. The vast majority of people are extremely respectful. Please don't let this out anyone off from going to a club." *put anyone off | |||
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"I’ve gone to clubs and been touched without my consent by every race of man. It’s really put me off of going to clubs as a single lady. Always have to choose s private room or else it like I’m a free-for-all! So on my own, I cannot enjoy the full club experience. I like being exhibitionist. But if I want to be in the main play area I have to constantly be on guard and can’t relax. Guys try all sorts and it makes me very aggressive, when I have to keep warning men not to touch me. I feel like I need to be a super Domme going in. If I’m in the mood for that, cool. But regardless, I wish I didn’t have to deal with it. " Go with a friend on couples only nights, it's totally different and much better. Yes some couples touch without asking but they are the minority and they don't swarm the way single guys do. | |||
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"I’ve gone to clubs and been touched without my consent by every race of man. It’s really put me off of going to clubs as a single lady. Always have to choose s private room or else it like I’m a free-for-all! So on my own, I cannot enjoy the full club experience. I like being exhibitionist. But if I want to be in the main play area I have to constantly be on guard and can’t relax. Guys try all sorts and it makes me very aggressive, when I have to keep warning men not to touch me. I feel like I need to be a super Domme going in. If I’m in the mood for that, cool. But regardless, I wish I didn’t have to deal with it. Go with a friend on couples only nights, it's totally different and much better. Yes some couples touch without asking but they are the minority and they don't swarm the way single guys do. " The last time I did go with a ‘friend’. And yes, nothing like that happened. The point is I shouldn’t have to. I shouldn’t need a bodyguard. If a man is there with me, nobody touches without asking him first. They don’t even ask me. They just direct questions to him. As if it’s his body | |||
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"I’ve gone to clubs and been touched without my consent by every race of man. It’s really put me off of going to clubs as a single lady. Always have to choose s private room or else it like I’m a free-for-all! So on my own, I cannot enjoy the full club experience. I like being exhibitionist. But if I want to be in the main play area I have to constantly be on guard and can’t relax. Guys try all sorts and it makes me very aggressive, when I have to keep warning men not to touch me. I feel like I need to be a super Domme going in. If I’m in the mood for that, cool. But regardless, I wish I didn’t have to deal with it. Go with a friend on couples only nights, it's totally different and much better. Yes some couples touch without asking but they are the minority and they don't swarm the way single guys do. The last time I did go with a ‘friend’. And yes, nothing like that happened. The point is I shouldn’t have to. I shouldn’t need a bodyguard. If a man is there with me, nobody touches without asking him first. They don’t even ask me. They just direct questions to him. As if it’s his body " Lol I hear you on that !! | |||
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"In the early days as a single fem I struggled to deal with the unwanted touches. Not anymore. Learned to find my voice quickly. Nowadays a firm and very loud 'no take your hand off me' suffices. " Yes, in most cases, a loud and clear no does put a stop to it. I have experienced some men who stop for a while then try again when I’m distracted. But it should be ask first. Not touch first. | |||
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"In the early days as a single fem I struggled to deal with the unwanted touches. Not anymore. Learned to find my voice quickly. Nowadays a firm and very loud 'no take your hand off me' suffices. " Me too but that’s too late, their hands are already on you. | |||
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"We find the opposite. Women seem to feel they are so sexy that touching a man without his consent is acceptable and he SHOULD love it !! Oh what big egos they have !" I never do this. But I've been on the recieving end of a man who thought I wouldn't notice as I was involved with a group. It's not acceptable from either sex to touch without consent x | |||
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"We had this last weekend, we were in a playroom together with a friend - curtain closed - when an Asian man came in, undressed & started touching Caroline. Dave told him to ask, but Caroline just told him no. At least he dressed and left quietly." | |||
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"Do the clubs ever mention the 'rules' when people enter? New people may think it's a free for all if they've watched swinger porn. The guy on the door at one club insinuated the men would definitely get a fuck on this particular night we were there waiting in the queue to go in. I've never been back to that club since. " Some clubs mention it, others don’t. I think some guys who are not necessarily from the scene think a swingers club is a sex club and a free for all. I’ve had to educate more than one guy that I don’t come as part of their entrance fee | |||
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"This is the very reason why we avoid clubs. Disrespectful people who are out for themselves will feel our wrath. Yeah, we’re missing out on opportunities blah blah blah. But there’s nothing sexy about being hounded by pests. Not the liaisons we wish to have. Mr" Same here don't do clubs for that reason or only go on couple nights and even then some men still think it's their god given right to touch! Sometimes there's no etiquette in swinging! | |||
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"Do the clubs ever mention the 'rules' when people enter? New people may think it's a free for all if they've watched swinger porn. The guy on the door at one club insinuated the men would definitely get a fuck on this particular night we were there waiting in the queue to go in. I've never been back to that club since. Some clubs mention it, others don’t. I think some guys who are not necessarily from the scene think a swingers club is a sex club and a free for all. I’ve had to educate more than one guy that I don’t come as part of their entrance fee " I agree- I really think they just assume it's a sex club. If the club won't educate them then we'll have to. | |||
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"What's do people think the difference between a sex club and a swingers club is?" A sex club is one like The Private Club in Birmingham where girls are paid to attend. Swinging Club (majority of the others listed under reviews) are the reverse, girl pay to attend | |||
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"What's do people think the difference between a sex club and a swingers club is? A sex club is one like The Private Club in Birmingham where girls are paid to attend. Swinging Club (majority of the others listed under reviews) are the reverse, girl pay to attend " Fair enough. I call swing/fetish clubs 'sex club'. If someone was paid to be there and have sex with people I'd call it a brothel. | |||
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"I’ve personally never had this kind of trouble (and if I did I’d be confident enough to handle it) but I went with a lady friend that had advertised on these forums she wanted to go LCs so I invited her to join me that Friday night, she came and though much shyer and less confident than me, she seemed to relax and settle into the night, so when a guy asked me for a play I made sure she felt ok to be left alone and then I went to play, when I came back she was no where to be found. A member of staff told me they’re been an unfortunate incident of two Asian men trying to force themselves onto her the staff intervened immediately and resolved the issue (the men were escorted off the premises and were permanently banned from the club) but she still left in tears. I immediately dressed and left the club to phone and go find her, when I did she was very shook up and she’s never had the confidence to go back to the club scene. I felt so awful about it all and still do. Do I believe all Asian men would have treated her this way? No of course I don’t. I’ve been back to LCs myself and still had no issues with Asian men and personally found them to be nothing but respectful, but its an unfortunate fact that dickheads like the ones that did what they did exist from all races and creeds " That is horrendous what happened to your friend, but you shouldn't feel awful about it. It's the totally disrespectful men that were solely to blame. Hope your friend is ok. | |||
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"What's do people think the difference between a sex club and a swingers club is? A sex club is one like The Private Club in Birmingham where girls are paid to attend. Swinging Club (majority of the others listed under reviews) are the reverse, girl pay to attend Fair enough. I call swing/fetish clubs 'sex club'. If someone was paid to be there and have sex with people I'd call it a brothel." A sex club employs Escorts to entertain the clients. Swingers clubs dont. Big difference. | |||
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"I’ve personally never had this kind of trouble (and if I did I’d be confident enough to handle it) but I went with a lady friend that had advertised on these forums she wanted to go LCs so I invited her to join me that Friday night, she came and though much shyer and less confident than me, she seemed to relax and settle into the night, so when a guy asked me for a play I made sure she felt ok to be left alone and then I went to play, when I came back she was no where to be found. A member of staff told me they’re been an unfortunate incident of two Asian men trying to force themselves onto her the staff intervened immediately and resolved the issue (the men were escorted off the premises and were permanently banned from the club) but she still left in tears. I immediately dressed and left the club to phone and go find her, when I did she was very shook up and she’s never had the confidence to go back to the club scene. I felt so awful about it all and still do. Do I believe all Asian men would have treated her this way? No of course I don’t. I’ve been back to LCs myself and still had no issues with Asian men and personally found them to be nothing but respectful, but its an unfortunate fact that dickheads like the ones that did what they did exist from all races and creeds " Since when did crimes get punished with banning someone from a private members club?! Why were the police not called? | |||
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"I don't understand why some people have trouble with single guys in clubs, I never do. All you have to do is tell them exactly what you want. If you only want them to watch 'n' wank then just say so, they invariably do exactly what they're told. If you want them to touch then just guide their hands / cocks or whatever to the right place. I guess the problems arise when the guys just have no idea what a woman is expecting of them. If you don't want single guys at all - then what are you doing at a sex club on a mixed night? Go on a couples only night. Janet" couples are just as bad at times not only singles that do this! | |||
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"I’ve personally never had this kind of trouble (and if I did I’d be confident enough to handle it) but I went with a lady friend that had advertised on these forums she wanted to go LCs so I invited her to join me that Friday night, she came and though much shyer and less confident than me, she seemed to relax and settle into the night, so when a guy asked me for a play I made sure she felt ok to be left alone and then I went to play, when I came back she was no where to be found. A member of staff told me they’re been an unfortunate incident of two Asian men trying to force themselves onto her the staff intervened immediately and resolved the issue (the men were escorted off the premises and were permanently banned from the club) but she still left in tears. I immediately dressed and left the club to phone and go find her, when I did she was very shook up and she’s never had the confidence to go back to the club scene. I felt so awful about it all and still do. Do I believe all Asian men would have treated her this way? No of course I don’t. I’ve been back to LCs myself and still had no issues with Asian men and personally found them to be nothing but respectful, but its an unfortunate fact that dickheads like the ones that did what they did exist from all races and creeds Since when did crimes get punished with banning someone from a private members club?! Why were the police not called?" I feel that would be for the woman to decide, it's not a decision for the club to make. | |||
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"Why is it that some men in clubs seem to think it is there right to touch/play without asking? Now we aren't racist at all, but every time that a man hasn't asked for my consent, it has been an asian man. Is this something to do with their culture? Has anyone else noticed this in the club scene? Angel" I understand your point however it's probably already been said that this is not confined to Asian or male behaviour. I experience females and males of all races touching me everytime I'm in vanilla clubs or working doors without prior consent. It just seems to be an accepted part of being around intoxicated people. As long as it's light hearted and minimum I don't mind but I understand how some wouldn't like it. | |||
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"I’ve personally never had this kind of trouble (and if I did I’d be confident enough to handle it) but I went with a lady friend that had advertised on these forums she wanted to go LCs so I invited her to join me that Friday night, she came and though much shyer and less confident than me, she seemed to relax and settle into the night, so when a guy asked me for a play I made sure she felt ok to be left alone and then I went to play, when I came back she was no where to be found. A member of staff told me they’re been an unfortunate incident of two Asian men trying to force themselves onto her the staff intervened immediately and resolved the issue (the men were escorted off the premises and were permanently banned from the club) but she still left in tears. I immediately dressed and left the club to phone and go find her, when I did she was very shook up and she’s never had the confidence to go back to the club scene. I felt so awful about it all and still do. Do I believe all Asian men would have treated her this way? No of course I don’t. I’ve been back to LCs myself and still had no issues with Asian men and personally found them to be nothing but respectful, but its an unfortunate fact that dickheads like the ones that did what they did exist from all races and creeds Since when did crimes get punished with banning someone from a private members club?! Why were the police not called?" Because even if the police had been called the lady would still need to want to press charges against them and she didn’t stick around that long | |||
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"Why is it that some men in clubs seem to think it is there right to touch/play without asking? Now we aren't racist at all, but every time that a man hasn't asked for my consent, it has been an asian man. Is this something to do with their culture? Has anyone else noticed this in the club scene? AngelI understand your point however it's probably already been said that this is not confined to Asian or male behaviour. I experience females and males of all races touching me everytime I'm in vanilla clubs or working doors without prior consent. It just seems to be an accepted part of being around intoxicated people. As long as it's light hearted and minimum I don't mind but I understand how some wouldn't like it." I know it isn't just Asian men, that would be silly to say that. But as originally said, all my non consensual issues have been with Asian men. | |||
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"I’ve personally never had this kind of trouble (and if I did I’d be confident enough to handle it) but I went with a lady friend that had advertised on these forums she wanted to go LCs so I invited her to join me that Friday night, she came and though much shyer and less confident than me, she seemed to relax and settle into the night, so when a guy asked me for a play I made sure she felt ok to be left alone and then I went to play, when I came back she was no where to be found. A member of staff told me they’re been an unfortunate incident of two Asian men trying to force themselves onto her the staff intervened immediately and resolved the issue (the men were escorted off the premises and were permanently banned from the club) but she still left in tears. I immediately dressed and left the club to phone and go find her, when I did she was very shook up and she’s never had the confidence to go back to the club scene. I felt so awful about it all and still do. Do I believe all Asian men would have treated her this way? No of course I don’t. I’ve been back to LCs myself and still had no issues with Asian men and personally found them to be nothing but respectful, but its an unfortunate fact that dickheads like the ones that did what they did exist from all races and creeds Since when did crimes get punished with banning someone from a private members club?! Why were the police not called? Because even if the police had been called the lady would still need to want to press charges against them and she didn’t stick around that long " Hmmm ok makes sense. I wish she had. | |||
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"Male or female you shouldn't touch without consent that's a big no no" You play to the referee though, right? | |||
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"Why is it that some men in clubs seem to think it is there right to touch/play without asking? Now we aren't racist at all, but every time that a man hasn't asked for my consent, it has been an asian man. Is this something to do with their culture? Has anyone else noticed this in the club scene? Angel" its more to do with eye contact and body language keep your flerting to a minimum if you don't wanna be touched | |||
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"We find the opposite. Women seem to feel they are so sexy that touching a man without his consent is acceptable and he SHOULD love it !! Oh what big egos they have !" Lol asian men and women in general having issues with touching with out consent lol ?? | |||
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"I find a hard shove and a very, very loud NO to be a very effective way to both get rid of them AND alert other people. Can't say I've noticed it's only been 'Asian' men though. (Chinese? Indian? Korean? Afghan?)" better still cover your bits if your not ready for action. | |||
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"OP touching without asking isn't only a thing from Asian men, in fact it's not only men that do it. There are disrespectful people of all genders and all ethnic origin. When people do touch without asking how do you deal with it? Do you report them to the club? If you don't then you send out the message that it is ok to behave this way and it perpetuates the problem. Club owners and staff can't put a stop to this kind of behaviour if they don't know about it." very well said love | |||
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"Why is it that some men in clubs seem to think it is there right to touch/play without asking? Now we aren't racist at all, but every time that a man hasn't asked for my consent, it has been an asian man. Is this something to do with their culture? Has anyone else noticed this in the club scene? Angel" Well I must be the exception to the rule then, and there are many more of us than you think. I will never touch any woman unless explicitly invited to, and men in general should respect that. Its your body your rules, and no it is not a cultural thing its a dickhead thing. Love, peace and understand for all | |||
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"Ice had women feeling my bum im clubs without consent. I wasnt bothered but imagine if I did it to them. World War 3 would kick off" yep it's always been 1 rule from women and another for men. Its pc going nuts! | |||
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"I find a hard shove and a very, very loud NO to be a very effective way to both get rid of them AND alert other people. Can't say I've noticed it's only been 'Asian' men though. (Chinese? Indian? Korean? Afghan?) better still cover your bits if your not ready for action. " Your comments smack of victim shaming. It's the perpetrator who is guilty not the victim. | |||
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"I find a hard shove and a very, very loud NO to be a very effective way to both get rid of them AND alert other people. Can't say I've noticed it's only been 'Asian' men though. (Chinese? Indian? Korean? Afghan?) better still cover your bits if your not ready for action. Your comments smack of victim shaming. It's the perpetrator who is guilty not the victim." | |||
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"Why is it that some men in clubs seem to think it is there right to touch/play without asking? Now we aren't racist at all, but every time that a man hasn't asked for my consent, it has been an asian man. Is this something to do with their culture? Has anyone else noticed this in the club scene? Angelits more to do with eye contact and body language keep your flerting to a minimum if you don't wanna be touched " Excuse me? | |||
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"There are many clubs. Reading reviews and choosing the club carefully is key. We have not experienced this personally in the clubs we visit. One post here said they had reported an incident to the owners and nothing was done, hope a review was left for others to read and they didn't go back to said club We were at Attic when we seen a young lad asking to join some couple in a room he wouldn't take no for an answer, He was reported and he was asked to leave the club so didn't even get a chance to touch anyone. Most clubs take this kind of stance but read reviews. We have had some amazing experiences in clubs" I did leave a review but it was removed by admin. The club weren't bothered about what had happened, maybe because I was a newbie and the men were regulars, who knows. | |||
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"A few months back I witnessed a friend who was playing (she was restrained on a St. Andrew’s Cross and her partner was flogging her), a couple came up behind her and the woman groped her bum, not just an accidental brush past, it was a full grab to the point it made my friend jump out of her skin. I went and spoke to the woman as my friends had said they didn’t even know who she was and she’d just walked off, and when I spoke to her she was so nasty, and even said ‘the rules don’t apply to women luv’ she did go and apologise (no one told her to, but she made a huge thing of ‘if you want me to fucking apologise I will’) but as she walked past me she shouted at her husband ‘get me the hell away from here before I punch someone’ looking directly at me. I went and spoke to the club owner who couldn’t quite believe it when I pointed out who it was, and even when the husband came and grabbed the owner and said ‘you better calm her down she’s going mental and is going to punch someone’ nothing was done. When I later spoke to the owner I asked what was being done about it, and she shrugged her shoulders at me and said ‘well they’ve been coming here years’ turned her back on me and walked off. As I left the club that night, shortly after this happened I was told that I was making a fuss over nothing. Sadly it’s not the only incident I’ve ever seen (or heard of) in this particular club but it’s the only one I’ve ever been directly involved in and I’ve always been happy at clubs on my own, all of a sudden I didn’t feel safe, and I felt very alone. " Horrible people. Hope you don't bump into them again. x | |||
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"Why is it that some men in clubs seem to think it is there right to touch/play without asking? Now we aren't racist at all, but every time that a man hasn't asked for my consent, it has been an asian man. Is this something to do with their culture? Has anyone else noticed this in the club scene? Angelits more to do with eye contact and body language keep your flerting to a minimum if you don't wanna be touched " So if she'd been flirting with someone, she was asking to be sexually assaulted? Am I clear that's what you're saying? I just wanted to check my understanding... | |||
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"If someone attempted an uninvited grope of T we’d be barred from the club for life because I’d flatten them !!" It's not ok to sexually assault someone. It's not ok to punch someone either. And to be honest, to me as a woman, violent men are more frightening in a club than men who touch without consent. | |||
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" better still cover your bits if your not ready for action. " Let me guess - you also think women who wear shorts skirts or have a drink "deserve it"? You're the reason lots of people don't go to clubs. | |||
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"We find the opposite. Women seem to feel they are so sexy that touching a man without his consent is acceptable and he SHOULD love it !! Oh what big egos they have !" so true | |||
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"I had my first experience of this on Saturday, and tbh, I really threw me. In real life, I can more than easily stand up for myself, I do doorwork, used to dealing with arrogant, often d*unk men. If out with friends and someone acts inappropriately, then I'd rip them to shreds verbally, send them running for the hills. But Saturday in a club, with friends, only wearing a towel as just out the hot tub, I froze. It took a good 15/20 seconds before my brain kicked in & I could react, and even then it was just to mumble & push past, running after my friend who hadn't noticed & carried on walking. I've played it through so many times in my head. Angry with myself for not doing something. I've never considered myself vulnerable before. It certainly won't happen again " It's a reaction we would all maybe have as we don't expect inappropriate behaviour in a club, unlike when you are on the doors, you are ready and waiting. As you said, won't happen again as you have had a kick up the bum not to let yr guard down. Not nice people lurk everywhere and raise their ugly faces expected or not | |||
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"Why is it that some men in clubs seem to think it is there right to touch/play without asking? Now we aren't racist at all, but every time that a man hasn't asked for my consent, it has been an asian man. Is this something to do with their culture? Has anyone else noticed this in the club scene? Angelits more to do with eye contact and body language keep your flerting to a minimum if you don't wanna be touched " so a flirtatious look in your opinion is a green light. Maybe a better approach would be to ask first. People get turned on people watching and look the watches in the eye, that does not mean come get me | |||
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"I don't think it's a Asian thing but more in sense of a person quality as themselves i guess. Some people just think that by them being at a club gives them the right touch or try to get involved that's all. Maybe he needed to be educated" It’s always dangerous to generalise. We have noted good and bad behaviour across all cultures. | |||
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"I don't think it's a Asian thing but more in sense of a person quality as themselves i guess. Some people just think that by them being at a club gives them the right touch or try to get involved that's all. Maybe he needed to be educated It’s always dangerous to generalise. We have noted good and bad behaviour across all cultures. " In equal proportions? | |||
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" Of course for such a rule to be established then women would have to be in complete agreement and be prepared to do the legwork. Would the fair ladies of Fab prefer this situation to be enforced and become exclusively huntresses to rule out this attention from undesirables? " No, I wouldn't enjoy the pressure of always having to make the first move. I find at the moment I'm generally about 50/50 with me making the first move or the men I play with making the first move. I have no desire to be a hunter, I just want fun in a swing club. | |||
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" Of course for such a rule to be established then women would have to be in complete agreement and be prepared to do the legwork. Would the fair ladies of Fab prefer this situation to be enforced and become exclusively huntresses to rule out this attention from undesirables? No, I wouldn't enjoy the pressure of always having to make the first move. I find at the moment I'm generally about 50/50 with me making the first move or the men I play with making the first move. I have no desire to be a hunter, I just want fun in a swing club." I agree that you shouldn't have to, in an ideal world the undesirables should merely stop being such dickheads, that's a far better solution. But it's a fact sadly that this isn't an ideal world and these idiots will always exist, through any generation or culture. And they don't come complete with a large penis tattooed on their heads that means they get refused entry at the door. I just came up with that solution as unwanted attention from undesirable single males is probably the most common complaint in clubs, going on forum posts and things I've been told by friends, and enforcing this rule would be guaranteed absolutely to completely knock this problem on the head. Making the first move isn't really a challenge, after all in standard vanilla clubs in the 90s that I remember lads were expected to do it most of the time and it was just accepted as the norm. The way I see it there's no pressure, the women have nothing to lose and everything to gain, as in the worst case a lady's hand being merely pushed away in a noisy environment or being told "No thanks, I don't find you attractive in that way" when in a standard setting has no bad consequences whatsoever. Whereas being touched by those you would rather not have make contact with you could certainly be a bad experience? At the very least a certain club night given over to these rules could be introduced at most establishments and most women or couples could visit with more of a sense of freedom as the main problem of clubs has on that night been eradicated completely. What do other ladies think? | |||
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"I had my first experience of this on Saturday, and tbh, I really threw me. In real life, I can more than easily stand up for myself, I do doorwork, used to dealing with arrogant, often d*unk men. If out with friends and someone acts inappropriately, then I'd rip them to shreds verbally, send them running for the hills. But Saturday in a club, with friends, only wearing a towel as just out the hot tub, I froze. It took a good 15/20 seconds before my brain kicked in & I could react, and even then it was just to mumble & push past, running after my friend who hadn't noticed & carried on walking. I've played it through so many times in my head. Angry with myself for not doing something. I've never considered myself vulnerable before. It certainly won't happen again " This completely resonates with me. It happened to me in a dark room at a club. I moved away and it kept happening but I kind of wrote it off as accidental. Later in the club a man came up to me and said "I hope you enjoyed my accidentally-on-purpose wandering hands in there" and I realised he'd been groping me on purpose. I was stunned and no words came out. I felt embarrassed and angry and I didn't say a word. Similarly, I'm assertive and strong in real life but, when it happened, I just didn't do anything. | |||
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"I had my first experience of this on Saturday, and tbh, I really threw me. In real life, I can more than easily stand up for myself, I do doorwork, used to dealing with arrogant, often d*unk men. If out with friends and someone acts inappropriately, then I'd rip them to shreds verbally, send them running for the hills. But Saturday in a club, with friends, only wearing a towel as just out the hot tub, I froze. It took a good 15/20 seconds before my brain kicked in & I could react, and even then it was just to mumble & push past, running after my friend who hadn't noticed & carried on walking. I've played it through so many times in my head. Angry with myself for not doing something. I've never considered myself vulnerable before. It certainly won't happen again This completely resonates with me. It happened to me in a dark room at a club. I moved away and it kept happening but I kind of wrote it off as accidental. Later in the club a man came up to me and said "I hope you enjoyed my accidentally-on-purpose wandering hands in there" and I realised he'd been groping me on purpose. I was stunned and no words came out. I felt embarrassed and angry and I didn't say a word. Similarly, I'm assertive and strong in real life but, when it happened, I just didn't do anything." I must have misunderstood this concept. I thought the idea of a dark room was to go in and let anyone touch and touch anyone. Personally not for me for this reason. | |||
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"I had my first experience of this on Saturday, and tbh, I really threw me. In real life, I can more than easily stand up for myself, I do doorwork, used to dealing with arrogant, often d*unk men. If out with friends and someone acts inappropriately, then I'd rip them to shreds verbally, send them running for the hills. But Saturday in a club, with friends, only wearing a towel as just out the hot tub, I froze. It took a good 15/20 seconds before my brain kicked in & I could react, and even then it was just to mumble & push past, running after my friend who hadn't noticed & carried on walking. I've played it through so many times in my head. Angry with myself for not doing something. I've never considered myself vulnerable before. It certainly won't happen again This completely resonates with me. It happened to me in a dark room at a club. I moved away and it kept happening but I kind of wrote it off as accidental. Later in the club a man came up to me and said "I hope you enjoyed my accidentally-on-purpose wandering hands in there" and I realised he'd been groping me on purpose. I was stunned and no words came out. I felt embarrassed and angry and I didn't say a word. Similarly, I'm assertive and strong in real life but, when it happened, I just didn't do anything. I must have misunderstood this concept. I thought the idea of a dark room was to go in and let anyone touch and touch anyone. Personally not for me for this reason. " when we have been shown around clubs this is what we have been told, expect wandering hands so if you don't want to be touched don't go in so we steer clear of dark rooms to | |||
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" The way I see it there's no pressure, the women have nothing to lose and everything to gain, as in the worst case a lady's hand being merely pushed away in a noisy environment or being told "No thanks, I don't find you attractive in that way" " The woman should not be touching a man without his consent. Just as a man should not be touching a woman without her consent. | |||
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" The way I see it there's no pressure, the women have nothing to lose and everything to gain, as in the worst case a lady's hand being merely pushed away in a noisy environment or being told "No thanks, I don't find you attractive in that way" The woman should not be touching a man without his consent. Just as a man should not be touching a woman without her consent." | |||
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" The woman should not be touching a man without his consent. Just as a man should not be touching a woman without her consent." Is it not a case though that guys wouldnt ever complain if a woman groped them? | |||
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"OP touching without asking isn't only a thing from Asian men, in fact it's not only men that do it. There are disrespectful people of all genders and all ethnic origin. When people do touch without asking how do you deal with it? Do you report them to the club? If you don't then you send out the message that it is ok to behave this way and it perpetuates the problem. Club owners and staff can't put a stop to this kind of behaviour if they don't know about it." I work as staff in a very large club and find this happens a lot. I am often hearing days later that something happened over the weekend, but nobody bothered to tell us on the night. If this does happen on a night, if we feel it is necessary, we will kick the offender out and block their membership. Nobody should ever have to feel unsafe in a club. | |||
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"Why is it that some men in clubs seem to think it is there right to touch/play without asking? Now we aren't racist at all, but every time that a man hasn't asked for my consent, it has been an asian man. Is this something to do with their culture? Has anyone else noticed this in the club scene? Angel" Yes playing Chams it does seem to be the Asian guys that are pushy... | |||
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" The woman should not be touching a man without his consent. Just as a man should not be touching a woman without her consent. Is it not a case though that guys wouldnt ever complain if a woman groped them?" No, my partner has complained before. And people on this website have said that they were unhappy about that happening. | |||
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" The woman should not be touching a man without his consent. Just as a man should not be touching a woman without her consent. Is it not a case though that guys wouldnt ever complain if a woman groped them? No, my partner has complained before. And people on this website have said that they were unhappy about that happening. " And rightly so ! Happens all the time when I’m out with my OH and he hates it It’s nice to be fancied and lusted after but I think some forget that just because you are a swinger there are people that you absolutely would not swing with anyway ! Hands off unless invited male or female ! | |||
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" The way I see it there's no pressure, the women have nothing to lose and everything to gain, as in the worst case a lady's hand being merely pushed away in a noisy environment or being told "No thanks, I don't find you attractive in that way" The woman should not be touching a man without his consent. Just as a man should not be touching a woman without her consent." Whilst I agree with the sentiment of this entirely (I have told some women 'No' before) there is a difference, as a woman can feel physically threatened by a man. Whereas I've never felt physically threatened by a woman at all and the same would go for the overwhelming majority of men. | |||
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" The way I see it there's no pressure, the women have nothing to lose and everything to gain, as in the worst case a lady's hand being merely pushed away in a noisy environment or being told "No thanks, I don't find you attractive in that way" The woman should not be touching a man without his consent. Just as a man should not be touching a woman without her consent. Whilst I agree with the sentiment of this entirely (I have told some women 'No' before) there is a difference, as a woman can feel physically threatened by a man. Whereas I've never felt physically threatened by a woman at all and the same would go for the overwhelming majority of men." I agree with you that there is a difference, however I still think that women shouldn't touch men without their consent. | |||
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" The way I see it there's no pressure, the women have nothing to lose and everything to gain, as in the worst case a lady's hand being merely pushed away in a noisy environment or being told "No thanks, I don't find you attractive in that way" The woman should not be touching a man without his consent. Just as a man should not be touching a woman without her consent. Whilst I agree with the sentiment of this entirely (I have told some women 'No' before) there is a difference, as a woman can feel physically threatened by a man. Whereas I've never felt physically threatened by a woman at all and the same would go for the overwhelming majority of men. I agree with you that there is a difference, however I still think that women shouldn't touch men without their consent." That is a point. In your case then, the worst you could expect was merely being told 'Thanks, but no thanks' which causes no harm or offense at all. | |||
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" Of course for such a rule to be established then women would have to be in complete agreement and be prepared to do the legwork. Would the fair ladies of Fab prefer this situation to be enforced and become exclusively huntresses to rule out this attention from undesirables? No, I wouldn't enjoy the pressure of always having to make the first move. I find at the moment I'm generally about 50/50 with me making the first move or the men I play with making the first move. I have no desire to be a hunter, I just want fun in a swing club. I agree that you shouldn't have to, in an ideal world the undesirables should merely stop being such dickheads, that's a far better solution. But it's a fact sadly that this isn't an ideal world and these idiots will always exist, through any generation or culture. And they don't come complete with a large penis tattooed on their heads that means they get refused entry at the door. I just came up with that solution as unwanted attention from undesirable single males is probably the most common complaint in clubs, going on forum posts and things I've been told by friends, and enforcing this rule would be guaranteed absolutely to completely knock this problem on the head. Making the first move isn't really a challenge, after all in standard vanilla clubs in the 90s that I remember lads were expected to do it most of the time and it was just accepted as the norm. The way I see it there's no pressure, the women have nothing to lose and everything to gain, as in the worst case a lady's hand being merely pushed away in a noisy environment or being told "No thanks, I don't find you attractive in that way" when in a standard setting has no bad consequences whatsoever. Whereas being touched by those you would rather not have make contact with you could certainly be a bad experience? At the very least a certain club night given over to these rules could be introduced at most establishments and most women or couples could visit with more of a sense of freedom as the main problem of clubs has on that night been eradicated completely. What do other ladies think? " And you really think that men would abide by the rules? Most would, yes, but not all. I was in a couples only room with a half door which was locked. The man in questioned broke 2 rules, 1) unlocking the door, 2) entering a couples only room when he was a single male. So I'm curious to know why you think your rule would be abided by? Some men just think the rules don't apply to them. | |||
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" better still cover your bits if your not ready for action. Let me guess - you also think women who wear shorts skirts or have a drink "deserve it"? You're the reason lots of people don't go to clubs." well put | |||
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" The way I see it there's no pressure, the women have nothing to lose and everything to gain, as in the worst case a lady's hand being merely pushed away in a noisy environment or being told "No thanks, I don't find you attractive in that way" The woman should not be touching a man without his consent. Just as a man should not be touching a woman without her consent. Whilst I agree with the sentiment of this entirely (I have told some women 'No' before) there is a difference, as a woman can feel physically threatened by a man. Whereas I've never felt physically threatened by a woman at all and the same would go for the overwhelming majority of men. I agree with you that there is a difference, however I still think that women shouldn't touch men without their consent. That is a point. In your case then, the worst you could expect was merely being told 'Thanks, but no thanks' which causes no harm or offense at all." I still think you're missing quite a major point. It is *illegal* to touch people sexually without asking. The law actually says it's illegal and you can be prosecuted for it. So what makes you think these handsy guys are more likely to listen to an informal agreement than the law? | |||
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"Because the law itself would strange as it may seem have little bearing in this situation. Most in a club touched in this manner would not wish to go down the lengthy and often stressful route of prosecution and have their 'private lives' pored over in the process. I imagine most of these dickheads know this, to some extent. However, if it were a private club policy for men to not make any first moves at all, never mind touching, then the immediate ramifications would be that they could be immediately ejected which the idiots WOULD have to pay more mind to as it would hugely spoil any plans they had in the here and now." But they still would ignore the rules. It really wouldn't make any difference at all. | |||
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"Because the law itself would strange as it may seem have little bearing in this situation. Most in a club touched in this manner would not wish to go down the lengthy and often stressful route of prosecution and have their 'private lives' pored over in the process. I imagine most of these dickheads know this, to some extent. However, if it were a private club policy for men to not make any first moves at all, never mind touching, then the immediate ramifications would be that they could be immediately ejected which the idiots WOULD have to pay more mind to as it would hugely spoil any plans they had in the here and now." There aren't any clubs where non-consensual touching isn't against the rules. | |||
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"Who tells new people what the rules are?" Every time we have been to a new club, we have been shown around and given a run down of the house rules... However the non consensual touching, surely comes under common decency? | |||
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"Because the law itself would strange as it may seem have little bearing in this situation. Most in a club touched in this manner would not wish to go down the lengthy and often stressful route of prosecution and have their 'private lives' pored over in the process. I imagine most of these dickheads know this, to some extent. However, if it were a private club policy for men to not make any first moves at all, never mind touching, then the immediate ramifications would be that they could be immediately ejected which the idiots WOULD have to pay more mind to as it would hugely spoil any plans they had in the here and now. There aren't any clubs where non-consensual touching isn't against the rules." To a large extent yes, as you have said it mirrors the law which is no bad thing. Though to what degree a lodged complaint is deemed the correct response by a lady or couple(a brush on the leg, a stroke on the bottom, brief sexual contact) is often skimmed over and a grey area. That's why if all first moves by men were made against the rules and all contact or play had to be initiated by women on a certain night then I imagine the ratio of couples and females attending on these nights would increase as a lot of ladies would feel safer. Plus it might feel empowering, them being the 'selecters' by actual rule as it were, as a lot of the time this happens to some extent already. And the only thing they would risk is being told that a certain male didn't find them appealing sexually, which isn't harmful in the least. Essentially nothing to lose and everything to gain. | |||
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"I find a hard shove and a very, very loud NO to be a very effective way to both get rid of them AND alert other people. Can't say I've noticed it's only been 'Asian' men though. (Chinese? Indian? Korean? Afghan?)" | |||
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"I don't understand why some people have trouble with single guys in clubs, I never do. All you have to do is tell them exactly what you want. If you only want them to watch 'n' wank then just say so, they invariably do exactly what they're told. If you want them to touch then just guide their hands / cocks or whatever to the right place. I guess the problems arise when the guys just have no idea what a woman is expecting of them. If you don't want single guys at all - then what are you doing at a sex club on a mixed night? Go on a couples only night. Janet" thanks Janet wish everyone was like u | |||
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"Though to what degree a lodged complaint is deemed the correct response by a lady or couple(a brush on the leg, a stroke on the bottom, brief sexual contact) is often skimmed over and a grey area. That's why if all first moves by men were made against the rules and all contact or play had to be initiated by women on a certain night then I imagine the ratio of couples and females attending on these nights would increase as a lot of ladies would feel safer. " But those things aren't 'first move' - they're sexual assault! A first move is saying 'would you be interested in playing?' not touching someones butt! Verbal communication comes before physical touch no matter who is doing the asking. And having some meaningless rule like 'only women can ask men if they want to play' is not going to stop men thinking that they can touch you if they want. | |||
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"Because the law itself would strange as it may seem have little bearing in this situation. Most in a club touched in this manner would not wish to go down the lengthy and often stressful route of prosecution and have their 'private lives' pored over in the process. I imagine most of these dickheads know this, to some extent. However, if it were a private club policy for men to not make any first moves at all, never mind touching, then the immediate ramifications would be that they could be immediately ejected which the idiots WOULD have to pay more mind to as it would hugely spoil any plans they had in the here and now. There aren't any clubs where non-consensual touching isn't against the rules. To a large extent yes, as you have said it mirrors the law which is no bad thing. Though to what degree a lodged complaint is deemed the correct response by a lady or couple(a brush on the leg, a stroke on the bottom, brief sexual contact) is often skimmed over and a grey area. That's why if all first moves by men were made against the rules and all contact or play had to be initiated by women on a certain night then I imagine the ratio of couples and females attending on these nights would increase as a lot of ladies would feel safer. Plus it might feel empowering, them being the 'selecters' by actual rule as it were, as a lot of the time this happens to some extent already. And the only thing they would risk is being told that a certain male didn't find them appealing sexually, which isn't harmful in the least. Essentially nothing to lose and everything to gain." You're still missing the point though...that some men would still just ignore the rules. | |||
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"Because the law itself would strange as it may seem have little bearing in this situation. Most in a club touched in this manner would not wish to go down the lengthy and often stressful route of prosecution and have their 'private lives' pored over in the process. I imagine most of these dickheads know this, to some extent. However, if it were a private club policy for men to not make any first moves at all, never mind touching, then the immediate ramifications would be that they could be immediately ejected which the idiots WOULD have to pay more mind to as it would hugely spoil any plans they had in the here and now. There aren't any clubs where non-consensual touching isn't against the rules. To a large extent yes, as you have said it mirrors the law which is no bad thing. Though to what degree a lodged complaint is deemed the correct response by a lady or couple(a brush on the leg, a stroke on the bottom, brief sexual contact) is often skimmed over and a grey area. That's why if all first moves by men were made against the rules and all contact or play had to be initiated by women on a certain night then I imagine the ratio of couples and females attending on these nights would increase as a lot of ladies would feel safer. Plus it might feel empowering, them being the 'selecters' by actual rule as it were, as a lot of the time this happens to some extent already. And the only thing they would risk is being told that a certain male didn't find them appealing sexually, which isn't harmful in the least. Essentially nothing to lose and everything to gain. You're still missing the point though...that some men would still just ignore the rules. " Not if sticking to this simple premise hard and fast enough meant men were booted out regularly for any advances to a woman whatsoever without her making one first. A blanket ban of verbal, touching, absolutely anything without a woman explicitly telling them she wanted their attention beforehand would be the easiest to manage as there's no grey areas. It would pretty soon deliver the "smoking ban" effect as the attitude of the overwhelming majority of club patrons altered. These feely fuckwits are probably the same kind of idiots who immediately when the smoking ban came in would think nothing of lighting up a cig in the average pub. They overwhelmingly wouldn't do it now as it's highly ostracized and know full well that it would result in them being unceremoniously dumped out of the door at the very least. A lot of women would also relish their new status as 'hunters', would enjoy their night with not only no 'gropers' but no pressure to indulge at all if they didn't want to as no man present would be allowed to make any sort of approach whatsoever, including verbal. And the only thing they would possibly come up with is rejection from the guys in some cases, which causes no harm whatsoever, egos aren't fragile things, especially not when compared to the sense of having ones body pawed or mauled without consent. There can't be only me that thinks this a good idea? | |||
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" Not if sticking to this simple premise hard and fast enough meant men were booted out regularly for any advances to a woman whatsoever without her making one first." Men *are* booted out of most clubs regularly for sexual assault. It doesn't put people off, apparently. I would imagine for many of these guys they've not been around the scene long. | |||
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"Racist idiots. Is our culture like that. Hiding behind your keyboards and saying rubbish things. Im proud to be Asian and can assure you were not all the same" I like proud people | |||
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" Not if sticking to this simple premise hard and fast enough meant men were booted out regularly for any advances to a woman whatsoever without her making one first. Men *are* booted out of most clubs regularly for sexual assault. It doesn't put people off, apparently. I would imagine for many of these guys they've not been around the scene long." And won't be around the scene for much longer too, if they have that attitude. I just feel a total "blanket ban" as it were would do more to get it through the thick skulls of a greater number of them that it's unacceptable. | |||
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" Not if sticking to this simple premise hard and fast enough meant men were booted out regularly for any advances to a woman whatsoever without her making one first. Men *are* booted out of most clubs regularly for sexual assault. It doesn't put people off, apparently. I would imagine for many of these guys they've not been around the scene long. And won't be around the scene for much longer too, if they have that attitude. I just feel a total "blanket ban" as it were would do more to get it through the thick skulls of a greater number of them that it's unacceptable." There is a blanket ban on people sexually assaulting others. | |||
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"Though to what degree a lodged complaint is deemed the correct response by a lady or couple(a brush on the leg, a stroke on the bottom, brief sexual contact) is often skimmed over and a grey area. That's why if all first moves by men were made against the rules and all contact or play had to be initiated by women on a certain night then I imagine the ratio of couples and females attending on these nights would increase as a lot of ladies would feel safer. But those things aren't 'first move' - they're sexual assault! A first move is saying 'would you be interested in playing?' not touching someones butt! Verbal communication comes before physical touch no matter who is doing the asking. And having some meaningless rule like 'only women can ask men if they want to play' is not going to stop men thinking that they can touch you if they want." When I’ve complained at one club that I won’t name, the response has been ‘some ladies like that’ A nudge, a touch on the shoulder maybe but not blatant grabbing tits pussy or feeling up the inside of my leg that I’ve regularly complained of. The two are very different but some don’t get that sadly. | |||
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"People think it's only Swingers clubs this happens. We have witnessed men acting inappropriate on the bike scene for years. Other bikers just turn a blind eye. We got so sick of witnessing this behaviour, both the inappropriate behaviour and actions of turning a blind eye we gave up on the scene. We didn't turn a blind eye and people weren't happy with us. " That's half the problem. Many fellow swingers will call you boring or frigid if you say you're not happy with sexual assault. Even on this thread people have suggested it's the women's fault. | |||
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"People think it's only Swingers clubs this happens. We have witnessed men acting inappropriate on the bike scene for years. Other bikers just turn a blind eye. We got so sick of witnessing this behaviour, both the inappropriate behaviour and actions of turning a blind eye we gave up on the scene. We didn't turn a blind eye and people weren't happy with us. That's half the problem. Many fellow swingers will call you boring or frigid if you say you're not happy with sexual assault. Even on this thread people have suggested it's the women's fault." When challenge one bloke justified it with yes but your tits look so nice and grabbable Since when did sexual assault become so normalised? | |||
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"People think it's only Swingers clubs this happens. We have witnessed men acting inappropriate on the bike scene for years. Other bikers just turn a blind eye. We got so sick of witnessing this behaviour, both the inappropriate behaviour and actions of turning a blind eye we gave up on the scene. We didn't turn a blind eye and people weren't happy with us. That's half the problem. Many fellow swingers will call you boring or frigid if you say you're not happy with sexual assault. Even on this thread people have suggested it's the women's fault." We can't believe how others react turning a blind eye and saying nothing to with us or he's not done anything to me. Recent events in the press don't even make them behave. This goes for both sex. Some Woman think it's ok for them. I wore a kilt often and got so sick of females taking a feel. I would confront them saying how would you feel if I put my hand up yr skirt, they said that's different. Touching without consent. | |||
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"Racist idiots. Is our culture like that. Hiding behind your keyboards and saying rubbish things. Im proud to be Asian and can assure you were not all the same" Someone would have to naive to think all Asians are like that but as only a small percentage of the people that attend swingers clubs are Asian a few of them acting badly make a big impression. Frisky is not attracted to Arabic, Asian or oriental males so we don't go looking for them. However if like us you have been approached 4 or 5 times and each has ended badly it does make you wary... As for being racist at work my life depends on my co workers and trust me there are quite a few Asian guys that would be my first choice to work with... | |||
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"Racist idiots. Is our culture like that. Hiding behind your keyboards and saying rubbish things. Im proud to be Asian and can assure you were not all the same" Who has been racist? Not us for certain. We know not all men are the same, but it is the minority as in my own personal experience, which is all I have to speak from, every occasion of non consensual play has been with Asian men. Just saying. | |||
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"Because the law itself would strange as it may seem have little bearing in this situation. Most in a club touched in this manner would not wish to go down the lengthy and often stressful route of prosecution and have their 'private lives' pored over in the process. I imagine most of these dickheads know this, to some extent. However, if it were a private club policy for men to not make any first moves at all, never mind touching, then the immediate ramifications would be that they could be immediately ejected which the idiots WOULD have to pay more mind to as it would hugely spoil any plans they had in the here and now. There aren't any clubs where non-consensual touching isn't against the rules. To a large extent yes, as you have said it mirrors the law which is no bad thing. Though to what degree a lodged complaint is deemed the correct response by a lady or couple(a brush on the leg, a stroke on the bottom, brief sexual contact) is often skimmed over and a grey area. That's why if all first moves by men were made against the rules and all contact or play had to be initiated by women on a certain night then I imagine the ratio of couples and females attending on these nights would increase as a lot of ladies would feel safer. Plus it might feel empowering, them being the 'selecters' by actual rule as it were, as a lot of the time this happens to some extent already. And the only thing they would risk is being told that a certain male didn't find them appealing sexually, which isn't harmful in the least. Essentially nothing to lose and everything to gain. You're still missing the point though...that some men would still just ignore the rules. Not if sticking to this simple premise hard and fast enough meant men were booted out regularly for any advances to a woman whatsoever without her making one first. A blanket ban of verbal, touching, absolutely anything without a woman explicitly telling them she wanted their attention beforehand would be the easiest to manage as there's no grey areas. It would pretty soon deliver the "smoking ban" effect as the attitude of the overwhelming majority of club patrons altered. These feely fuckwits are probably the same kind of idiots who immediately when the smoking ban came in would think nothing of lighting up a cig in the average pub. They overwhelmingly wouldn't do it now as it's highly ostracized and know full well that it would result in them being unceremoniously dumped out of the door at the very least. A lot of women would also relish their new status as 'hunters', would enjoy their night with not only no 'gropers' but no pressure to indulge at all if they didn't want to as no man present would be allowed to make any sort of approach whatsoever, including verbal. And the only thing they would possibly come up with is rejection from the guys in some cases, which causes no harm whatsoever, egos aren't fragile things, especially not when compared to the sense of having ones body pawed or mauled without consent. There can't be only me that thinks this a good idea?" How would it be any easier managed than it currently is? Men break rules, they still will. It is happening and will continue to happen. Not all clubs care when complaints are made, those men who just come up and touch without asking are still allowed in. It's just won't work. | |||
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"Because the law itself would strange as it may seem have little bearing in this situation. Most in a club touched in this manner would not wish to go down the lengthy and often stressful route of prosecution and have their 'private lives' pored over in the process. I imagine most of these dickheads know this, to some extent. However, if it were a private club policy for men to not make any first moves at all, never mind touching, then the immediate ramifications would be that they could be immediately ejected which the idiots WOULD have to pay more mind to as it would hugely spoil any plans they had in the here and now. There aren't any clubs where non-consensual touching isn't against the rules. To a large extent yes, as you have said it mirrors the law which is no bad thing. Though to what degree a lodged complaint is deemed the correct response by a lady or couple(a brush on the leg, a stroke on the bottom, brief sexual contact) is often skimmed over and a grey area. That's why if all first moves by men were made against the rules and all contact or play had to be initiated by women on a certain night then I imagine the ratio of couples and females attending on these nights would increase as a lot of ladies would feel safer. Plus it might feel empowering, them being the 'selecters' by actual rule as it were, as a lot of the time this happens to some extent already. And the only thing they would risk is being told that a certain male didn't find them appealing sexually, which isn't harmful in the least. Essentially nothing to lose and everything to gain. You're still missing the point though...that some men would still just ignore the rules. Not if sticking to this simple premise hard and fast enough meant men were booted out regularly for any advances to a woman whatsoever without her making one first. A blanket ban of verbal, touching, absolutely anything without a woman explicitly telling them she wanted their attention beforehand would be the easiest to manage as there's no grey areas. It would pretty soon deliver the "smoking ban" effect as the attitude of the overwhelming majority of club patrons altered. These feely fuckwits are probably the same kind of idiots who immediately when the smoking ban came in would think nothing of lighting up a cig in the average pub. They overwhelmingly wouldn't do it now as it's highly ostracized and know full well that it would result in them being unceremoniously dumped out of the door at the very least. A lot of women would also relish their new status as 'hunters', would enjoy their night with not only no 'gropers' but no pressure to indulge at all if they didn't want to as no man present would be allowed to make any sort of approach whatsoever, including verbal. And the only thing they would possibly come up with is rejection from the guys in some cases, which causes no harm whatsoever, egos aren't fragile things, especially not when compared to the sense of having ones body pawed or mauled without consent. There can't be only me that thinks this a good idea? How would it be any easier managed than it currently is? Men break rules, they still will. It is happening and will continue to happen. Not all clubs care when complaints are made, those men who just come up and touch without asking are still allowed in. It's just won't work. " Using the club reviews here when clubs won’t respond adequately is one way of getting them to care. | |||
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"Though to what degree a lodged complaint is deemed the correct response by a lady or couple(a brush on the leg, a stroke on the bottom, brief sexual contact) is often skimmed over and a grey area. That's why if all first moves by men were made against the rules and all contact or play had to be initiated by women on a certain night then I imagine the ratio of couples and females attending on these nights would increase as a lot of ladies would feel safer. But those things aren't 'first move' - they're sexual assault! A first move is saying 'would you be interested in playing?' not touching someones butt! Verbal communication comes before physical touch no matter who is doing the asking. And having some meaningless rule like 'only women can ask men if they want to play' is not going to stop men thinking that they can touch you if they want. When I’ve complained at one club that I won’t name, the response has been ‘some ladies like that’ A nudge, a touch on the shoulder maybe but not blatant grabbing tits pussy or feeling up the inside of my leg that I’ve regularly complained of. The two are very different but some don’t get that sadly. " Wow they actually said that to you? That's awful. Wish I knew which club so I can avoid it. | |||
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"I'm curious what people consider the etiquette in a dark room. If the room is truly dark then it is only by making physical contact that you discover another person. And often very quiet. What then.....stroke, fondle until told not to? Sober assume that by being in a dark room then we are fair game to be touched?" You have a voice | |||
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"I'm curious what people consider the etiquette in a dark room. If the room is truly dark then it is only by making physical contact that you discover another person. And often very quiet. What then.....stroke, fondle until told not to? Sober assume that by being in a dark room then we are fair game to be touched?" My own view is that normal rules don’t apply as a dark room is a place where the aim is touching or being touched by anonymous people. The right to say no still exists though. | |||
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"I'm curious what people consider the etiquette in a dark room. If the room is truly dark then it is only by making physical contact that you discover another person. And often very quiet. What then.....stroke, fondle until told not to? Sober assume that by being in a dark room then we are fair game to be touched?" I would say the etiquette is that you still ask if it's ok for you to touch. | |||
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"I'm curious what people consider the etiquette in a dark room. If the room is truly dark then it is only by making physical contact that you discover another person. And often very quiet. What then.....stroke, fondle until told not to? Sober assume that by being in a dark room then we are fair game to be touched? I would say the etiquette is that you still ask if it's ok for you to touch. " We just avoid the dark room! | |||
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"I'm so glad people are talking about this x I think club owners need to up their game and educate every attendee. It's disgusting behaviour. It has happened to me to many times in clubs. Yes I'm there for sex however I'm human first not a sex object so should be treated with respect! Btw I find it's more white guys then Asian x not being bias x but yea the Asians need educating to x " It appears some club owners dont view it as an issue. | |||
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"Im an asian guy and I've never touched a woman without consent. Im actually respectful and probably too shy to approach a woman but i will stare. As It had been said before it depends on your background anyone from any race that thinks is okay to degrade women by thinking if its there they can touch it will do so at a swinging club or a normal one. Making it all about one race is racist and leads to racial discrimination which seems to be a big trend on this site. Its disgusting. " We would agree with that as we have said before bad behaviour is not confined to any particular race in our experience. | |||
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"I'm so glad people are talking about this x I think club owners need to up their game and educate every attendee. It's disgusting behaviour. It has happened to me to many times in clubs. Yes I'm there for sex however I'm human first not a sex object so should be treated with respect! Btw I find it's more white guys then Asian x not being bias x but yea the Asians need educating to x " If no-one educates them they'll never learn. | |||
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"I'm so glad people are talking about this x I think club owners need to up their game and educate every attendee. It's disgusting behaviour. It has happened to me to many times in clubs. Yes I'm there for sex however I'm human first not a sex object so should be treated with respect! Btw I find it's more white guys then Asian x not being bias x but yea the Asians need educating to x If no-one educates them they'll never learn." All do of what I have seen and heard . | |||
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