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Clubs - totally unappealing?

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By *ogerNesszones OP   Man
over a year ago

Northern England

On reading through another thread, a male member was enquiring as to why older guys hate him in clubs -

apparently, he'd "had fun" with a "hot ladie" (sic), and older male club goers were nasty to him.

Be that as it may, I was prompted to voice a few of my own reasons why (as a single bloke) I find the idea of going to a club totally unappealing:

a) A high ratio of testosterone charged men, all desperate for a shag; posturing, preening, puffing their chests out, sucking their bellies in, constantly fluffing their penises whilst leering at and leching after a much lower number of available females. NOT an attractive proposition to me...add alcohol to the mix, and you have a very dangerous cocktail.

b) The aforementioned blokes - having forked out a considerable sum of money (in membership and entry fees) having a sense of entitlement to sex.

c) I have no wish to be part of what seems to me like a Natural History documentary on the behaviour of rutting stags - all that's missing is a camera crew and the hushed tones of David Attenborough.

d) I guess an important reason why clubs don't appeal to me, is that in my younger days, I never really enjoyed going to regular nightclubs in any case.

On the plus side, I do appreciate that a club is a safe environment for females to have sex in a safe and controlled environment - but if the mood doesn't take them and / or they don't see anyone the fancy, can they actually socialise and possibly even watch the action if they wish, without unwanted attention / harassment?

I've opened this post based purely on my own preconceptions - and with my tongue very firmly in my cheek! I could well be way off the mark, and I stand to be corrected.

So, if this topic has not already been done to death, I'd love to hear other people's views on this matter.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"On reading through another thread, a male member was enquiring as to why older guys hate him in clubs -

apparently, he'd "had fun" with a "hot ladie" (sic), and older male club goers were nasty to him.

Be that as it may, I was prompted to voice a few of my own reasons why (as a single bloke) I find the idea of going to a club totally unappealing:

a) A high ratio of testosterone charged men, all desperate for a shag; posturing, preening, puffing their chests out, sucking their bellies in, constantly fluffing their penises whilst leering at and leching after a much lower number of available females. NOT an attractive proposition to me...add alcohol to the mix, and you have a very dangerous cocktail.

b) The aforementioned blokes - having forked out a considerable sum of money (in membership and entry fees) having a sense of entitlement to sex.

c) I have no wish to be part of what seems to me like a Natural History documentary on the behaviour of rutting stags - all that's missing is a camera crew and the hushed tones of David Attenborough.

d) I guess an important reason why clubs don't appeal to me, is that in my younger days, I never really enjoyed going to regular nightclubs in any case.

On the plus side, I do appreciate that a club is a safe environment for females to have sex in a safe and controlled environment - but if the mood doesn't take them and / or they don't see anyone the fancy, can they actually socialise and possibly even watch the action if they wish, without unwanted attention / harassment?

I've opened this post based purely on my own preconceptions - and with my tongue very firmly in my cheek! I could well be way off the mark, and I stand to be corrected.

So, if this topic has not already been done to death, I'd love to hear other people's views on this matter. "

If they dont appeal

Dont go

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By *inkyman1964Man
over a year ago

Stoke-on-Trent

Seems you know everything about Clubs?

I don't know which you have been to but you seem to have a very one sided view.

Not all Clubs are like that as men can behave and be nice.

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By *hoenixcouplexxCouple
over a year ago

Leicestershire

You've just described the crap club's. They're the ones to avoid. But the otherones, the ones we love going to are nothing like that at all.

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By *otlovefun42Couple
over a year ago

Costa Blanca Spain...


"On reading through another thread, a male member was enquiring as to why older guys hate him in clubs -

apparently, he'd "had fun" with a "hot ladie" (sic), and older male club goers were nasty to him.

Be that as it may, I was prompted to voice a few of my own reasons why (as a single bloke) I find the idea of going to a club totally unappealing:

a) A high ratio of testosterone charged men, all desperate for a shag; posturing, preening, puffing their chests out, sucking their bellies in, constantly fluffing their penises whilst leering at and leching after a much lower number of available females. NOT an attractive proposition to me...add alcohol to the mix, and you have a very dangerous cocktail.

b) The aforementioned blokes - having forked out a considerable sum of money (in membership and entry fees) having a sense of entitlement to sex.

c) I have no wish to be part of what seems to me like a Natural History documentary on the behaviour of rutting stags - all that's missing is a camera crew and the hushed tones of David Attenborough.

d) I guess an important reason why clubs don't appeal to me, is that in my younger days, I never really enjoyed going to regular nightclubs in any case.

On the plus side, I do appreciate that a club is a safe environment for females to have sex in a safe and controlled environment - but if the mood doesn't take them and / or they don't see anyone the fancy, can they actually socialise and possibly even watch the action if they wish, without unwanted attention / harassment?

I've opened this post based purely on my own preconceptions - and with my tongue very firmly in my cheek! I could well be way off the mark, and I stand to be corrected.

So, if this topic has not already been done to death, I'd love to hear other people's views on this matter. "

We've been to over 40 clubs in five countries so....

A) More likely is a small ratio of single blokes (most clubs limit the numbers unless it's a greedy girl or gangbang night) who stare across the bar but are scared shitless to even say hello to a couple. However yes they do tend to "fluff" their cocks quite a lot, especially when loitering around the playroom doors.

B) We have come across men with a sense of entitlement but very rarely, even in France where they can be a bit more pushy than elsewhere.

C) We have every desire to dive into a heap of naked bodies and have wild sex (that is what we go for, among other things) and if David Attenborough wants to watch he would be more than welcome. I think the Mrs would draw the line at him joining in though, a bit old even for us.

D) While some of the larger clubs are set up like a disco type nightclub the dynamic in most that we have visited is more like a pub, with extras of course

We do all our swinging in clubs or at parties and the safety side is a big consideration. We've also had quite a few club nights that have just turned into a social but the vast majority have turned into a lot of very sexy fun with some that were really WILD!!!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"

On the plus side, I do appreciate that a club is a safe environment for females to have sex in a safe and controlled environment - but if the mood doesn't take them and / or they don't see anyone the fancy, can they actually socialise and possibly even watch the action if they wish, without unwanted attention / harassment?

"

No, we can't and it pisses me off too.

I just want to watch and be left be but guys seem unable to respect that.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

OP if you don't like the sound of a club, don't go. It's quite simple. Don't spend hours fretting about what it will be like, just don't go and conduct your swinging adventures elsewhere.

I'm a regular club attendee and find that it is much easier and safer to meet people that way, but plenty of others don't use clubs and stick to one to one meets.

I would also say "don't knock it till you've tried it" - unless you have tried out a few different club nights, you really have no idea what swingers clubs are about, so aren't really qualified to moan about them.

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By *he fab twoCouple
over a year ago

brentwood

We love clubs!

We love the whole liberated atmosphere

We love seeing others fuck and enjoy themselves

We love the fact there’s no pressure to swing but if you wanted to there are lots of opportunity’s to do so!

Go have a drink relax laugh chill out in pool/hot tub and have fun!

If your hell bent on getting a fuck go to whore house it’s gauranteed there!

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By *esterLilacCouple
over a year ago

Cheshire


"You've just described the crap club's. They're the ones to avoid. But the otherones, the ones we love going to are nothing like that at all."

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By *eeleyWoman
over a year ago

Dudley


"On reading through another thread, a male member was enquiring as to why older guys hate him in clubs -

apparently, he'd "had fun" with a "hot ladie" (sic), and older male club goers were nasty to him.

Be that as it may, I was prompted to voice a few of my own reasons why (as a single bloke) I find the idea of going to a club totally unappealing:

a) A high ratio of testosterone charged men, all desperate for a shag; posturing, preening, puffing their chests out, sucking their bellies in, constantly fluffing their penises whilst leering at and leching after a much lower number of available females. NOT an attractive proposition to me...add alcohol to the mix, and you have a very dangerous cocktail.

b) The aforementioned blokes - having forked out a considerable sum of money (in membership and entry fees) having a sense of entitlement to sex.

c) I have no wish to be part of what seems to me like a Natural History documentary on the behaviour of rutting stags - all that's missing is a camera crew and the hushed tones of David Attenborough.

d) I guess an important reason why clubs don't appeal to me, is that in my younger days, I never really enjoyed going to regular nightclubs in any case.

On the plus side, I do appreciate that a club is a safe environment for females to have sex in a safe and controlled environment - but if the mood doesn't take them and / or they don't see anyone the fancy, can they actually socialise and possibly even watch the action if they wish, without unwanted attention / harassment?

I've opened this post based purely on my own preconceptions - and with my tongue very firmly in my cheek! I could well be way off the mark, and I stand to be corrected.

So, if this topic has not already been done to death, I'd love to hear other people's views on this matter. "

You're looking at clubs as one single unit instead of looking at them as individual places, every club is different and tarring every single man with that brush is actually doing most men a disservice.

As others have said, really, you're not qualified to make such broad generalisations about places that you've never been to.

I'd advise you to try a club before you knock them and make assumptions based on what people say on here.

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By *uckandbunnyCouple
over a year ago

The Wild Wetness

a) I think it varies on the nights you pick. We tend to stick to couples only nights so the ratios are evenly balanced. On the single guy nights we've been to some have been better than others, but the bar area is usually a fairly easy relaxed place where you will not get hassled. Hell it can be hard to get hit on as people are very shy.

b) only come across the entitled attitude once, simple to say he did not get fucked.

c) most play is very considerate and plenty of asking is it OK to touch here or do you enjoy this or that. But if you want a good rutting why not it's an opportunity to experiment and do something you can't do at home with just one other person.

d) clubs do have music in but unlike nightclubs the volume is at a level that allows discussion. I'm sure some are all set up to be wild dance parties but not been to one so can't comment.

You can play or watch without harassment, usually a no thank you will suffice. I would not classify people looking or saying hi as harassment. It's a club we're people go to meet others so getting approached is part of the expectation.

As others have said though you will never know until you try.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

This is the exact impression of clubs I have and I've never been to one.

I wouldn't say I fret over it but I would like to go to one one day but i just cant shake this stereotype i have and ideally i like someone to go with me

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By *ethnmelvCouple
over a year ago

Cardiff

OP - when making statements like you have, it is best to have actually been to a club or even better clubs. We do not recognise any of your comments from the clubs we have been to

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By *eanandJulieCouple
over a year ago

Doncaster

What you seem to have described is the typical mind set of a single guy who has the complete wrong idea of what a swingers club is and you seem to have labelled it as the clubs fault. you haven't mention the decent single guy who spends time talking to lady's and couples and is more successful. Clubs provide the venue, the people provide there attitude towards others. We run a club and over the years we have worked hard with single guys to change their perception and attitude about swingers clubs, everyone is given a fully guided tour and explanation of what to expect and how to behave, we always encourage the guys to spend time in the bar chatting to people rather than rush off upstairs in their towel to wait like a spider in his web, we patrol the club throughout the night to ensure all is well. if anyone is found to be or reported to be a pest then this is dealt with, you will always get some guys who still think they have paid their money and so expect something in return, these people are either re-educated or removed

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By *ldhillhotwifeCouple
over a year ago

Old Hill

Not our impression of clubs but perhaps you haven't been to the right ones.

Never found guys to be entitled or forceful and we mainly go to the nights for greedy girls or gangbang so ratio of guys to girls is normally high.

Yes they do hang around fluffing whilst watching but that benefits us with having extra cock good to go when asked.

Love being able to break away from playing and have a drink and a dance.

Prefer a club I am familar with than a cold hotel room meet!

Sx

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

he's right he's is not the fisrt person the are loads of men n women who come disappointed

some say they been harassed

some they being called names like look at that fat pig

somesay they paid £30 for entry+more expens n they come up with out playing so they have to wank themselves i could get a hooker for that amount of money n have a peaceful evening at home

lots of bad thing about clubs this the way I see it

IF U HUNG N CONFIDENT SINGLE GUY WHY BOTHER GO TO CLUBS AT THE END OF THE DAY THEY ARE DOING BUSINESS I GET LOTS OF INVITES EVEN FROM PEOPLE WHO DOESN'T OWN CLUBS WHY THE FUCK DO U INVITE SOMEONE IF U DON'T WANT PLAY WITH HIM THATS annoying

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By *carlettxWoman
over a year ago

Essex


"On reading through another thread, a male member was enquiring as to why older guys hate him in clubs -

apparently, he'd "had fun" with a "hot ladie" (sic), and older male club goers were nasty to him.

Be that as it may, I was prompted to voice a few of my own reasons why (as a single bloke) I find the idea of going to a club totally unappealing:

a) A high ratio of testosterone charged men, all desperate for a shag; posturing, preening, puffing their chests out, sucking their bellies in, constantly fluffing their penises whilst leering at and leching after a much lower number of available females. NOT an attractive proposition to me...add alcohol to the mix, and you have a very dangerous cocktail.

b) The aforementioned blokes - having forked out a considerable sum of money (in membership and entry fees) having a sense of entitlement to sex.

c) I have no wish to be part of what seems to me like a Natural History documentary on the behaviour of rutting stags - all that's missing is a camera crew and the hushed tones of David Attenborough.

d) I guess an important reason why clubs don't appeal to me, is that in my younger days, I never really enjoyed going to regular nightclubs in any case.

On the plus side, I do appreciate that a club is a safe environment for females to have sex in a safe and controlled environment - but if the mood doesn't take them and / or they don't see anyone the fancy, can they actually socialise and possibly even watch the action if they wish, without unwanted attention / harassment?

I've opened this post based purely on my own preconceptions - and with my tongue very firmly in my cheek! I could well be way off the mark, and I stand to be corrected.

So, if this topic has not already been done to death, I'd love to hear other people's views on this matter. "

OP what clubs have you visited to be able to find this opinion as I take this is an opinion based on what you have witnessed rather than what you have assumed ?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"he's right he's is not the fisrt person the are loads of men n women who come disappointed

some say they been harassed

some they being called names like look at that fat pig

somesay they paid £30 for entry+more expens n they come up with out playing so they have to wank themselves i could get a hooker for that amount of money n have a peaceful evening at home

lots of bad thing about clubs this the way I see it

IF U HUNG N CONFIDENT SINGLE GUY WHY BOTHER GO TO CLUBS AT THE END OF THE DAY THEY ARE DOING BUSINESS I GET LOTS OF INVITES EVEN FROM PEOPLE WHO DOESN'T OWN CLUBS WHY THE FUCK DO U INVITE SOMEONE IF U DON'T WANT PLAY WITH HIM THATS annoying "

You could get a hooker for £30?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"he's right he's is not the fisrt person the are loads of men n women who come disappointed

some say they been harassed

some they being called names like look at that fat pig

somesay they paid £30 for entry+more expens n they come up with out playing so they have to wank themselves i could get a hooker for that amount of money n have a peaceful evening at home

lots of bad thing about clubs this the way I see it

IF U HUNG N CONFIDENT SINGLE GUY WHY BOTHER GO TO CLUBS AT THE END OF THE DAY THEY ARE DOING BUSINESS I GET LOTS OF INVITES EVEN FROM PEOPLE WHO DOESN'T OWN CLUBS WHY THE FUCK DO U INVITE SOMEONE IF U DON'T WANT PLAY WITH HIM THATS annoying

You could get a hooker for £30? "

You beat me to it!

I was just about to query that one!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"he's right he's is not the fisrt person the are loads of men n women who come disappointed

some say they been harassed

some they being called names like look at that fat pig

somesay they paid £30 for entry+more expens n they come up with out playing so they have to wank themselves i could get a hooker for that amount of money n have a peaceful evening at home

lots of bad thing about clubs this the way I see it

IF U HUNG N CONFIDENT SINGLE GUY WHY BOTHER GO TO CLUBS AT THE END OF THE DAY THEY ARE DOING BUSINESS I GET LOTS OF INVITES EVEN FROM PEOPLE WHO DOESN'T OWN CLUBS WHY THE FUCK DO U INVITE SOMEONE IF U DON'T WANT PLAY WITH HIM THATS annoying "

I don’t understand this post. Are you saying that if a man goes to a club he should be entitled to have sex there?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Never had a problem with single men.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"he's right he's is not the fisrt person the are loads of men n women who come disappointed

some say they been harassed

some they being called names like look at that fat pig

somesay they paid £30 for entry+more expens n they come up with out playing so they have to wank themselves i could get a hooker for that amount of money n have a peaceful evening at home

lots of bad thing about clubs this the way I see it

IF U HUNG N CONFIDENT SINGLE GUY WHY BOTHER GO TO CLUBS AT THE END OF THE DAY THEY ARE DOING BUSINESS I GET LOTS OF INVITES EVEN FROM PEOPLE WHO DOESN'T OWN CLUBS WHY THE FUCK DO U INVITE SOMEONE IF U DON'T WANT PLAY WITH HIM THATS annoying

I don’t understand this post. Are you saying that if a man goes to a club he should be entitled to have sex there?"

Some just don’t seem to get it, paying money has nothing to do with sex in swinging. If he thinks paying £30 for a hooker is the way to do it, good luck!!

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By *abioMan
over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead

[Removed by poster at 16/10/17 10:22:41]

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By *abioMan
over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead


"On reading through another thread, a male member was enquiring as to why older guys hate him in clubs -

apparently, he'd "had fun" with a "hot ladie" (sic), and older male club goers were nasty to him.

Be that as it may, I was prompted to voice a few of my own reasons why (as a single bloke) I find the idea of going to a club totally unappealing:

a) A high ratio of testosterone charged men, all desperate for a shag; posturing, preening, puffing their chests out, sucking their bellies in, constantly fluffing their penises whilst leering at and leching after a much lower number of available females. NOT an attractive proposition to me...add alcohol to the mix, and you have a very dangerous cocktail.

b) The aforementioned blokes - having forked out a considerable sum of money (in membership and entry fees) having a sense of entitlement to sex.

c) I have no wish to be part of what seems to me like a Natural History documentary on the behaviour of rutting stags - all that's missing is a camera crew and the hushed tones of David Attenborough.

d) I guess an important reason why clubs don't appeal to me, is that in my younger days, I never really enjoyed going to regular nightclubs in any case.

On the plus side, I do appreciate that a club is a safe environment for females to have sex in a safe and controlled environment - but if the mood doesn't take them and / or they don't see anyone the fancy, can they actually socialise and possibly even watch the action if they wish, without unwanted attention / harassment?

I've opened this post based purely on my own preconceptions - and with my tongue very firmly in my cheek! I could well be way off the mark, and I stand to be corrected.

So, if this topic has not already been done to death, I'd love to hear other people's views on this matter.

"

i would say a couple things...

1) if they don't appeal to you.... like someone else say "don't go"

2) clubs can and are as good a place socially as they are play wise... and as long as you are aware that you are closing of a potentially avenue to meet people and get to know them at a later stage.... cool, but then you are not in a position to complain at a later stage......

which leads me to......

3) since you have not been to a club, that is a lot of assumptions you seem to be making..... and if those are the preconceived notions you are taking in with you to any potential visit.... to be brutally frank, you'd probably be part of the issue you are talking about and its wiser you don't go anyway......

we always say whenever you first visit a club, go on with an open mind and no expectations.... you aren't doing this!!!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"he's right he's is not the fisrt person the are loads of men n women who come disappointed

some say they been harassed

some they being called names like look at that fat pig

somesay they paid £30 for entry+more expens n they come up with out playing so they have to wank themselves i could get a hooker for that amount of money n have a peaceful evening at home

lots of bad thing about clubs this the way I see it

IF U HUNG N CONFIDENT SINGLE GUY WHY BOTHER GO TO CLUBS AT THE END OF THE DAY THEY ARE DOING BUSINESS I GET LOTS OF INVITES EVEN FROM PEOPLE WHO DOESN'T OWN CLUBS WHY THE FUCK DO U INVITE SOMEONE IF U DON'T WANT PLAY WITH HIM THATS annoying

I don’t understand this post. Are you saying that if a man goes to a club he should be entitled to have sex there?"

yes if it is a swinging clube why pay £30 £40 for entry if no guarantee why the fuck would he travel miles for a pint n social when he can get it around the

corner what i am saying it's not worth traveling miles n spend ur money for nothing

they say we have greedy girls, ocougar,bbw u can name it on their advert n then if you don't play u are being fooled

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By *abioMan
over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead


"he's right he's is not the fisrt person the are loads of men n women who come disappointed

some say they been harassed

some they being called names like look at that fat pig

somesay they paid £30 for entry+more expens n they come up with out playing so they have to wank themselves i could get a hooker for that amount of money n have a peaceful evening at home

lots of bad thing about clubs this the way I see it

IF U HUNG N CONFIDENT SINGLE GUY WHY BOTHER GO TO CLUBS AT THE END OF THE DAY THEY ARE DOING BUSINESS I GET LOTS OF INVITES EVEN FROM PEOPLE WHO DOESN'T OWN CLUBS WHY THE FUCK DO U INVITE SOMEONE IF U DON'T WANT PLAY WITH HIM THATS annoying

I don’t understand this post. Are you saying that if a man goes to a club he should be entitled to have sex there? yes if it is a swinging clube why pay £30 £40 for entry if no guarantee why the fuck would he travel miles for a pint n social when he can get it around the

corner what i am saying it's not worth traveling miles n spend ur money for nothing

they say we have greedy girls, ocougar,bbw u can name it on their advert n then if you don't play u are being fooled "

no that is you going in with the expectation of because you have given them money for entrance you are guarenteed some sort of sex... and to be honest, that sort of attitude is better left outside of clubs....

if you want guarenteed sex for money.... find a hooker!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Never has this issue. The last three visits to our local club, we went early specifically to find a single guy, and three times there haven't been any there.

From now I'll be pre arranging to meet a single guy there, as we just can't count on anyone being there when we go.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"he's right he's is not the fisrt person the are loads of men n women who come disappointed

some say they been harassed

some they being called names like look at that fat pig

somesay they paid £30 for entry+more expens n they come up with out playing so they have to wank themselves i could get a hooker for that amount of money n have a peaceful evening at home

lots of bad thing about clubs this the way I see it

IF U HUNG N CONFIDENT SINGLE GUY WHY BOTHER GO TO CLUBS AT THE END OF THE DAY THEY ARE DOING BUSINESS I GET LOTS OF INVITES EVEN FROM PEOPLE WHO DOESN'T OWN CLUBS WHY THE FUCK DO U INVITE SOMEONE IF U DON'T WANT PLAY WITH HIM THATS annoying

I don’t understand this post. Are you saying that if a man goes to a club he should be entitled to have sex there? yes if it is a swinging clube why pay £30 £40 for entry if no guarantee why the fuck would he travel miles for a pint n social when he can get it around the

corner what i am saying it's not worth traveling miles n spend ur money for nothing

they say we have greedy girls, ocougar,bbw u can name it on their advert n then if you don't play u are being fooled

no that is you going in with the expectation of because you have given them money for entrance you are guarenteed some sort of sex... and to be honest, that sort of attitude is better left outside of clubs....

if you want guarenteed sex for money.... find a hooker!"

A cheap one

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"he's right he's is not the fisrt person the are loads of men n women who come disappointed

some say they been harassed

some they being called names like look at that fat pig

somesay they paid £30 for entry+more expens n they come up with out playing so they have to wank themselves i could get a hooker for that amount of money n have a peaceful evening at home

lots of bad thing about clubs this the way I see it

IF U HUNG N CONFIDENT SINGLE GUY WHY BOTHER GO TO CLUBS AT THE END OF THE DAY THEY ARE DOING BUSINESS I GET LOTS OF INVITES EVEN FROM PEOPLE WHO DOESN'T OWN CLUBS WHY THE FUCK DO U INVITE SOMEONE IF U DON'T WANT PLAY WITH HIM THATS annoying

I don’t understand this post. Are you saying that if a man goes to a club he should be entitled to have sex there? yes if it is a swinging clube why pay £30 £40 for entry if no guarantee why the fuck would he travel miles for a pint n social when he can get it around the

corner what i am saying it's not worth traveling miles n spend ur money for nothing

they say we have greedy girls, ocougar,bbw u can name it on their advert n then if you don't play u are being fooled

no that is you going in with the expectation of because you have given them money for entrance you are guarenteed some sort of sex... and to be honest, that sort of attitude is better left outside of clubs....

if you want guarenteed sex for money.... find a hooker!

A cheap one "

Good sex is priceless! X

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By *uckandbunnyCouple
over a year ago

The Wild Wetness


"he's right he's is not the fisrt person the are loads of men n women who come disappointed

some say they been harassed

some they being called names like look at that fat pig

somesay they paid £30 for entry+more expens n they come up with out playing so they have to wank themselves i could get a hooker for that amount of money n have a peaceful evening at home

lots of bad thing about clubs this the way I see it

IF U HUNG N CONFIDENT SINGLE GUY WHY BOTHER GO TO CLUBS AT THE END OF THE DAY THEY ARE DOING BUSINESS I GET LOTS OF INVITES EVEN FROM PEOPLE WHO DOESN'T OWN CLUBS WHY THE FUCK DO U INVITE SOMEONE IF U DON'T WANT PLAY WITH HIM THATS annoying

I don’t understand this post. Are you saying that if a man goes to a club he should be entitled to have sex there? yes if it is a swinging clube why pay £30 £40 for entry if no guarantee why the fuck would he travel miles for a pint n social when he can get it around the

corner what i am saying it's not worth traveling miles n spend ur money for nothing

they say we have greedy girls, ocougar,bbw u can name it on their advert n then if you don't play u are being fooled "

I think your right if the attitude is that you are paying money for sex then a club is not for you.

Similar to here, if you think paying gold or silver membership entitles you to one free fuck, don't pay for membership.

If you want to pay money for sex prostitution is the way to go.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"he's right he's is not the fisrt person the are loads of men n women who come disappointed

some say they been harassed

some they being called names like look at that fat pig

somesay they paid £30 for entry+more expens n they come up with out playing so they have to wank themselves i could get a hooker for that amount of money n have a peaceful evening at home

lots of bad thing about clubs this the way I see it

IF U HUNG N CONFIDENT SINGLE GUY WHY BOTHER GO TO CLUBS AT THE END OF THE DAY THEY ARE DOING BUSINESS I GET LOTS OF INVITES EVEN FROM PEOPLE WHO DOESN'T OWN CLUBS WHY THE FUCK DO U INVITE SOMEONE IF U DON'T WANT PLAY WITH HIM THATS annoying

I don’t understand this post. Are you saying that if a man goes to a club he should be entitled to have sex there? yes if it is a swinging clube why pay £30 £40 for entry if no guarantee why the fuck would he travel miles for a pint n social when he can get it around the

corner what i am saying it's not worth traveling miles n spend ur money for nothing

they say we have greedy girls, ocougar,bbw u can name it on their advert n then if you don't play u are being fooled

I think your right if the attitude is that you are paying money for sex then a club is not for you.

Similar to here, if you think paying gold or silver membership entitles you to one free fuck, don't pay for membership.

If you want to pay money for sex prostitution is the way to go. "

Yep leave the clubs to those who enjoy going!

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By *carlettxWoman
over a year ago

Essex


"he's right he's is not the fisrt person the are loads of men n women who come disappointed

some say they been harassed

some they being called names like look at that fat pig

somesay they paid £30 for entry+more expens n they come up with out playing so they have to wank themselves i could get a hooker for that amount of money n have a peaceful evening at home

lots of bad thing about clubs this the way I see it

IF U HUNG N CONFIDENT SINGLE GUY WHY BOTHER GO TO CLUBS AT THE END OF THE DAY THEY ARE DOING BUSINESS I GET LOTS OF INVITES EVEN FROM PEOPLE WHO DOESN'T OWN CLUBS WHY THE FUCK DO U INVITE SOMEONE IF U DON'T WANT PLAY WITH HIM THATS annoying

I don’t understand this post. Are you saying that if a man goes to a club he should be entitled to have sex there? yes if it is a swinging clube why pay £30 £40 for entry if no guarantee why the fuck would he travel miles for a pint n social when he can get it around the

corner what i am saying it's not worth traveling miles n spend ur money for nothing

they say we have greedy girls, ocougar,bbw u can name it on their advert n then if you don't play u are being fooled

I think your right if the attitude is that you are paying money for sex then a club is not for you.

Similar to here, if you think paying gold or silver membership entitles you to one free fuck, don't pay for membership.

If you want to pay money for sex prostitution is the way to go.

Yep leave the clubs to those who enjoy going! "

Can’t add anything to that

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"he's right he's is not the fisrt person the are loads of men n women who come disappointed

some say they been harassed

some they being called names like look at that fat pig

somesay they paid £30 for entry+more expens n they come up with out playing so they have to wank themselves i could get a hooker for that amount of money n have a peaceful evening at home

lots of bad thing about clubs this the way I see it

IF U HUNG N CONFIDENT SINGLE GUY WHY BOTHER GO TO CLUBS AT THE END OF THE DAY THEY ARE DOING BUSINESS I GET LOTS OF INVITES EVEN FROM PEOPLE WHO DOESN'T OWN CLUBS WHY THE FUCK DO U INVITE SOMEONE IF U DON'T WANT PLAY WITH HIM THATS annoying

I don’t understand this post. Are you saying that if a man goes to a club he should be entitled to have sex there? yes if it is a swinging clube why pay £30 £40 for entry if no guarantee why the fuck would he travel miles for a pint n social when he can get it around the

corner what i am saying it's not worth traveling miles n spend ur money for nothing

they say we have greedy girls, ocougar,bbw u can name it on their advert n then if you don't play u are being fooled

I think your right if the attitude is that you are paying money for sex then a club is not for you.

Similar to here, if you think paying gold or silver membership entitles you to one free fuck, don't pay for membership.

If you want to pay money for sex prostitution is the way to go. "

I don't pay money for sex

n for the gold site support or silver it doesn't say we will provide you a sex it say u can view any one or u can message any one or u can see who viewed in stuff n u are guarantee to do all the things u paid for so the joke is on u

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By *elma and ShaggyCouple
over a year ago

Bedworth

[Removed by poster at 16/10/17 12:01:43]

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By *elma and ShaggyCouple
over a year ago

Bedworth


"he's right he's is not the fisrt person the are loads of men n women who come disappointed

some say they been harassed

some they being called names like look at that fat pig

somesay they paid £30 for entry+more expens n they come up with out playing so they have to wank themselves i could get a hooker for that amount of money n have a peaceful evening at home

lots of bad thing about clubs this the way I see it

IF U HUNG N CONFIDENT SINGLE GUY WHY BOTHER GO TO CLUBS AT THE END OF THE DAY THEY ARE DOING BUSINESS I GET LOTS OF INVITES EVEN FROM PEOPLE WHO DOESN'T OWN CLUBS WHY THE FUCK DO U INVITE SOMEONE IF U DON'T WANT PLAY WITH HIM THATS annoying

I don’t understand this post. Are you saying that if a man goes to a club he should be entitled to have sex there? yes if it is a swinging clube why pay £30 £40 for entry if no guarantee why the fuck would he travel miles for a pint n social when he can get it around the

corner what i am saying it's not worth traveling miles n spend ur money for nothing

they say we have greedy girls, ocougar,bbw u can name it on their advert n then if you don't play u are being fooled

I think your right if the attitude is that you are paying money for sex then a club is not for you.

Similar to here, if you think paying gold or silver membership entitles you to one free fuck, don't pay for membership.

If you want to pay money for sex prostitution is the way to go. I don't pay money for sex

n for the gold site support or silver it doesn't say we will provide you a sex it say u can view any one or u can message any one or u can see who viewed in stuff n u are guarantee to do all the things u paid for so the joke is on u "

Show me a club that says the entry fee guarantees sex.

Oh no you can't! That's because it doesn't!

Try doing some proper research about clubs and you will see that each and every swingers club states on its website that paying an entry fee does not guarantee sex!

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By *inkyLondonpairCouple
over a year ago

London


"he's right he's is not the fisrt person the are loads of men n women who come disappointed

some say they been harassed

some they being called names like look at that fat pig

somesay they paid £30 for entry+more expens n they come up with out playing so they have to wank themselves i could get a hooker for that amount of money n have a peaceful evening at home

lots of bad thing about clubs this the way I see it

IF U HUNG N CONFIDENT SINGLE GUY WHY BOTHER GO TO CLUBS AT THE END OF THE DAY THEY ARE DOING BUSINESS I GET LOTS OF INVITES EVEN FROM PEOPLE WHO DOESN'T OWN CLUBS WHY THE FUCK DO U INVITE SOMEONE IF U DON'T WANT PLAY WITH HIM THATS annoying

I don’t understand this post. Are you saying that if a man goes to a club he should be entitled to have sex there? yes if it is a swinging clube why pay £30 £40 for entry if no guarantee why the fuck would he travel miles for a pint n social when he can get it around the

corner what i am saying it's not worth traveling miles n spend ur money for nothing

they say we have greedy girls, ocougar,bbw u can name it on their advert n then if you don't play u are being fooled "

What? Loads of people go to conventional clubs hoping to pull. If they fail to pull should they ask for their money back?

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By *inkyLondonpairCouple
over a year ago

London

For the OP. There are a number of parties which have "single girls" there who will have sex with everyone. They are, in fact, sex workers who are paid to be there. Those parties seem more your sort of thing. However, they will cost you a lot more than. £30

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By *carlettxWoman
over a year ago

Essex


"he's right he's is not the fisrt person the are loads of men n women who come disappointed

some say they been harassed

some they being called names like look at that fat pig

somesay they paid £30 for entry+more expens n they come up with out playing so they have to wank themselves i could get a hooker for that amount of money n have a peaceful evening at home

lots of bad thing about clubs this the way I see it

IF U HUNG N CONFIDENT SINGLE GUY WHY BOTHER GO TO CLUBS AT THE END OF THE DAY THEY ARE DOING BUSINESS I GET LOTS OF INVITES EVEN FROM PEOPLE WHO DOESN'T OWN CLUBS WHY THE FUCK DO U INVITE SOMEONE IF U DON'T WANT PLAY WITH HIM THATS annoying "

I’ve just re read this .... is this a joke ? Surely you cannot be serious ??

Of course clubs invite their customers to attend TO MEET LIKE MINDED PEOPLE ( yes I can use Shouty Capital Letters) too !!

They are not inviting you to come to their lifestyle / swingers club to use it like a brothel they are inviting you to come and enjoy a good night a be respectful towards their other customers

What does being hung have to do with anything ffs

Oh and if you are able to find a hooker for £30 mate I would suggest sticking your cock in a cheese grater might be a safer option

Just saying

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By *ikeC81Man
over a year ago

harrow

Ok as a single guy that goes to club, yes I puff my belly in, fluff my cock and I do like to wank however I do like to talk to others flirt and engage with others

What i will say if you make the attempt to talk to others in a club often that will lead to fun

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By *otlovefun42Couple
over a year ago

Costa Blanca Spain...


"Ok as a single guy that goes to club, yes I puff my belly in, fluff my cock and I do like to wank however I do like to talk to others flirt and engage with others

What i will say if you make the attempt to talk to others in a club often that will lead to fun "

Absolutely right.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Clubs are not for everyone and I've been lucky enough to go with other people so haven't been in as a single guy.

I'm not sure I would tbh,however there are ways to behave for both couples and singles.

If you go in with the mindset that you've paid x amount and it guarantees you a shag,you will be disappointed!Similarly if you stand in doorways to rooms,stroking your cock and leering at couples and single women,you're unlikely to get anywhere either!

If you want to go,try and pick a busy night if you can,maybe a themed night and go with the intention to have a laugh and socialise.The rest should follow...

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By *oiluvfunMan
over a year ago

Penrith

To be fair to the OP; he was actually asking for advice, and airing his self-admitted preconceptions, before taking the plunge and visiting a club for the first time. My experiences in clubs haven't been brilliant (I'm sure some of you know that already), but I'm still hoping to leave that first 'Fabulous!' club review. The club scene isn't for everyone, but at least give it go

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By *eeleyWoman
over a year ago

Dudley


"he's right he's is not the fisrt person the are loads of men n women who come disappointed

some say they been harassed

some they being called names like look at that fat pig

somesay they paid £30 for entry+more expens n they come up with out playing so they have to wank themselves i could get a hooker for that amount of money n have a peaceful evening at home

lots of bad thing about clubs this the way I see it

IF U HUNG N CONFIDENT SINGLE GUY WHY BOTHER GO TO CLUBS AT THE END OF THE DAY THEY ARE DOING BUSINESS I GET LOTS OF INVITES EVEN FROM PEOPLE WHO DOESN'T OWN CLUBS WHY THE FUCK DO U INVITE SOMEONE IF U DON'T WANT PLAY WITH HIM THATS annoying "

You seem to have missed the memo that tells people what swinging clubs are about.

There's a huge difference between sex clubs and swingers clubs, you should look it up.

Also, you're exactly the kind of man OP was talking about.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"he's right he's is not the fisrt person the are loads of men n women who come disappointed

some say they been harassed

some they being called names like look at that fat pig

somesay they paid £30 for entry+more expens n they come up with out playing so they have to wank themselves i could get a hooker for that amount of money n have a peaceful evening at home

lots of bad thing about clubs this the way I see it

IF U HUNG N CONFIDENT SINGLE GUY WHY BOTHER GO TO CLUBS AT THE END OF THE DAY THEY ARE DOING BUSINESS I GET LOTS OF INVITES EVEN FROM PEOPLE WHO DOESN'T OWN CLUBS WHY THE FUCK DO U INVITE SOMEONE IF U DON'T WANT PLAY WITH HIM THATS annoying

I’ve just re read this .... is this a joke ? Surely you cannot be serious ??

Of course clubs invite their customers to attend TO MEET LIKE MINDED PEOPLE ( yes I can use Shouty Capital Letters) too !!

They are not inviting you to come to their lifestyle / swingers club to use it like a brothel they are inviting you to come and enjoy a good night a be respectful towards their other customers

What does being hung have to do with anything ffs

Oh and if you are able to find a hooker for £30 mate I would suggest sticking your cock in a cheese grater might be a safer option

Just saying "

hahaha no it's not joke u are taking advantage of some desperate people saying we will provide you greedy girls or selfish girl or what ever trying to convince they are guaranteed to play even though they won't it's all bullshit

being hung provides u any pussy u want what ever man wish for

I don't have to pay a penny for sex or for any

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"he's right he's is not the fisrt person the are loads of men n women who come disappointed

some say they been harassed

some they being called names like look at that fat pig

somesay they paid £30 for entry+more expens n they come up with out playing so they have to wank themselves i could get a hooker for that amount of money n have a peaceful evening at home

lots of bad thing about clubs this the way I see it

IF U HUNG N CONFIDENT SINGLE GUY WHY BOTHER GO TO CLUBS AT THE END OF THE DAY THEY ARE DOING BUSINESS I GET LOTS OF INVITES EVEN FROM PEOPLE WHO DOESN'T OWN CLUBS WHY THE FUCK DO U INVITE SOMEONE IF U DON'T WANT PLAY WITH HIM THATS annoying

I’ve just re read this .... is this a joke ? Surely you cannot be serious ??

Of course clubs invite their customers to attend TO MEET LIKE MINDED PEOPLE ( yes I can use Shouty Capital Letters) too !!

They are not inviting you to come to their lifestyle / swingers club to use it like a brothel they are inviting you to come and enjoy a good night a be respectful towards their other customers

What does being hung have to do with anything ffs

Oh and if you are able to find a hooker for £30 mate I would suggest sticking your cock in a cheese grater might be a safer option

Just saying hahaha no it's not joke u are taking advantage of some desperate people saying we will provide you greedy girls or selfish girl or what ever trying to convince they are guaranteed to play even though they won't it's all bullshit

being hung provides u any pussy u want what ever man wish for

I don't have to pay a penny for sex or for any "

You are contradicting yourself, my lovely

On the one hand saying that clubs ' provide' greedy girls that wont have sex with you

And then saying being hung means you can have " any pussy you want"

Please elucidate. Us old bints are easily confused

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Name calling is really unnecessary

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By *carlettxWoman
over a year ago

Essex


"he's right he's is not the fisrt person the are loads of men n women who come disappointed

some say they been harassed

some they being called names like look at that fat pig

somesay they paid £30 for entry+more expens n they come up with out playing so they have to wank themselves i could get a hooker for that amount of money n have a peaceful evening at home

lots of bad thing about clubs this the way I see it

IF U HUNG N CONFIDENT SINGLE GUY WHY BOTHER GO TO CLUBS AT THE END OF THE DAY THEY ARE DOING BUSINESS I GET LOTS OF INVITES EVEN FROM PEOPLE WHO DOESN'T OWN CLUBS WHY THE FUCK DO U INVITE SOMEONE IF U DON'T WANT PLAY WITH HIM THATS annoying

I’ve just re read this .... is this a joke ? Surely you cannot be serious ??

Of course clubs invite their customers to attend TO MEET LIKE MINDED PEOPLE ( yes I can use Shouty Capital Letters) too !!

They are not inviting you to come to their lifestyle / swingers club to use it like a brothel they are inviting you to come and enjoy a good night a be respectful towards their other customers

What does being hung have to do with anything ffs

Oh and if you are able to find a hooker for £30 mate I would suggest sticking your cock in a cheese grater might be a safer option

Just saying hahaha no it's not joke u are taking advantage of some desperate people saying we will provide you greedy girls or selfish girl or what ever trying to convince they are guaranteed to play even though they won't it's all bullshit

being hung provides u any pussy u want what ever man wish for

I don't have to pay a penny for sex or for any

You are contradicting yourself, my lovely

On the one hand saying that clubs ' provide' greedy girls that wont have sex with you

And then saying being hung means you can have " any pussy you want"

Please elucidate. Us old bints are easily confused"

Oh my god this is truly outstanding idiocrocy !

As the lady above points out you are condradicting yourself pmsl

The definition of a greedy girl party WHICH I hasten to add I have never organised myself messes exactly as it says - greedy girls !!

BUT

Believe it or not these ladies taking part still have a choice who they want to Fuck ... that’s right a choice because we aren’t living in the bloody dark ages where they get clubbed over the head and dragged towards the nearest cave

Those events which I believe are extremely popular allow girls that like a lot of men and guys that like going to watch and or take part if the girls want them to

I don’t know why you are getting your knickers in such a twist because as you say a popular hung man like yourself with all your freebie invites why do you need to worry about going to the club nights

Why don’t yiu save that for the ‘maybe’ less endowed men that have manners and respect us females and the ones we actually like to party with

And for the record cos clearly you haven’t read my profile before ASSUMING , I am not a club owner I am simply a woman that goes to clubs and have fun hosting party nights too

You may have a big cock but you are coming across as an even bigger one

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

[Removed by poster at 16/10/17 15:33:13]

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By *atEvolutionCouple
over a year ago

atlantisEVOLUTION. Stoke.

Just like Marmite - you love it or you hate it - but you will never know which until you have tried it.

Simple really

Cat X

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By *atEvolutionCouple
over a year ago

atlantisEVOLUTION. Stoke.

Just want to add that there are many Greedy Girls parties that DO NOT provide ladies and that they are simply events that couples and single ladies go for additional male/female attention

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By *carlettxWoman
over a year ago

Essex


"Just want to add that there are many Greedy Girls parties that DO NOT provide ladies and that they are simply events that couples and single ladies go for additional male/female attention "

Exactly this !

Greedy girls parties are for greedy girls not desperates lol

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Just want to add that there are many Greedy Girls parties that DO NOT provide ladies and that they are simply events that couples and single ladies go for additional male/female attention

Exactly this !

Greedy girls parties are for greedy girls not desperates lol "

I always find it rather amusing that there are SO many men, that simply cant get their lickle heads around the fact that women can own their own sexuality.

And that we go to the clubs for our own purposes, not to feed insecure men's egos

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By *carlettxWoman
over a year ago

Essex


"Just want to add that there are many Greedy Girls parties that DO NOT provide ladies and that they are simply events that couples and single ladies go for additional male/female attention

Exactly this !

Greedy girls parties are for greedy girls not desperates lol

I always find it rather amusing that there are SO many men, that simply cant get their lickle heads around the fact that women can own their own sexuality.

And that we go to the clubs for our own purposes, not to feed insecure men's egos"

Must deibrcthese very same men insane when these same men get rejected by these ladies for another woman

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By *tarbeckCouple
over a year ago

york


"On reading through another thread, a male member was enquiring as to why older guys hate him in clubs -

apparently, he'd "had fun" with a "hot ladie" (sic), and older male club goers were nasty to him.

Be that as it may, I was prompted to voice a few of my own reasons why (as a single bloke) I find the idea of going to a club totally unappealing:

a) A high ratio of testosterone charged men, all desperate for a shag; posturing, preening, puffing their chests out, sucking their bellies in, constantly fluffing their penises whilst leering at and leching after a much lower number of available females. NOT an attractive proposition to me...add alcohol to the mix, and you have a very dangerous cocktail.

b) The aforementioned blokes - having forked out a considerable sum of money (in membership and entry fees) having a sense of entitlement to sex.

c) I have no wish to be part of what seems to me like a Natural History documentary on the behaviour of rutting stags - all that's missing is a camera crew and the hushed tones of David Attenborough.

d) I guess an important reason why clubs don't appeal to me, is that in my younger days, I never really enjoyed going to regular nightclubs in any case.

On the plus side, I do appreciate that a club is a safe environment for females to have sex in a safe and controlled environment - but if the mood doesn't take them and / or they don't see anyone the fancy, can they actually socialise and possibly even watch the action if they wish, without unwanted attention / harassment?

I've opened this post based purely on my own preconceptions - and with my tongue very firmly in my cheek! I could well be way off the mark, and I stand to be corrected.

So, if this topic has not already been done to death, I'd love to hear other people's views on this matter. "

must say ive never been to a club like that

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By *ogerNesszones OP   Man
over a year ago

Northern England

Well everyone, thanks for your input and your comments - all making for a lively debate - which is surely what this forum is about?

I think some of you actually get where I'm coming from too; and I'd like to extend my special thanks to Dean and Julie, for stating what is the case in your particular club. I may well give your establishment a visit.

Thanks again everyone.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

most clubs ive been to have limited single males and in some those are even vetted - same goes for parties ive attended just one or two single males and they are known to the hosts - but if you dont fancy the clubs dont go - simples

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By *ister-mischiefMan
over a year ago

Trafford

love clubs never any issue, always had a great night

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I've only ever been to quest.

But. I go alone and don't feel pressured at all.

The clientele is as mixed and different as walking down a high street.

Only once have I been groped without permission but I was on my way out. If I was bothered I could tell the staff but I let it go.

The ratio of single men is not so high.

It's an awkward environment occasionally. But that goes for anywhere. Not just a swingers club.

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By *carlettxWoman
over a year ago

Essex


"I've only ever been to quest.

But. I go alone and don't feel pressured at all.

The clientele is as mixed and different as walking down a high street.

Only once have I been groped without permission but I was on my way out. If I was bothered I could tell the staff but I let it go.

The ratio of single men is not so high.

It's an awkward environment occasionally. But that goes for anywhere. Not just a swingers club. "

More hassle in normal clubs insisting on buying ladies drinks and being pests , swinging clubs a polite no thank you and they move to the next

I like that

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By *abioMan
over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead


"Well everyone, thanks for your input and your comments - all making for a lively debate - which is surely what this forum is about?

I think some of you actually get where I'm coming from too; and I'd like to extend my special thanks to Dean and Julie, for stating what is the case in your particular club. I may well give your establishment a visit.

Thanks again everyone. "

before you do go... if you do.... may i suggest you leave all those pre conceived notions you have at the door....

because at the moment... if i were a club owner, i don't think the attitude you have at the moment is one that i would want visiting a club... because "looking down on people" doesn't scream "fun person to be around!"

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By *abioMan
over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead


"Ok as a single guy that goes to club, yes I puff my belly in, fluff my cock and I do like to wank however I do like to talk to others flirt and engage with others

What i will say if you make the attempt to talk to others in a club often that will lead to fun "

lol.... more tolerant than me mike...

I just tell people to: 1) go around, take a big breath in, talk to people and say hello! and quite frankly 2) "don't be an arse!"

for some reason.. people forget what a magical word "hello" is!!! best conversation starter ever!!!

any yet... people still manage to forget part 1 and be part 2!!!

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By *ikeC81Man
over a year ago

harrow


"Ok as a single guy that goes to club, yes I puff my belly in, fluff my cock and I do like to wank however I do like to talk to others flirt and engage with others

What i will say if you make the attempt to talk to others in a club often that will lead to fun

lol.... more tolerant than me mike...

I just tell people to: 1) go around, take a big breath in, talk to people and say hello! and quite frankly 2) "don't be an arse!"

for some reason.. people forget what a magical word "hello" is!!! best conversation starter ever!!!

any yet... people still manage to forget part 1 and be part 2!!! "

I like to say do you cum here often lol

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By *dores blackmenWoman
over a year ago

incognito mode ;-)

I've persuaded a few guys/fems in my time to go to a club for there first time,and alot have really enjoyed themselves whether they played or not

Guys hear all sorts of horror stories,it dosent matter whether you are drop dead gorgeous with a huge cock or an average looking man,it's how you come across which makes for a good night

Being polite,respectful,able to chat and flirt and most importantly smile

Having the right attitude and no expectations

Your paying for the club entrance and use of the facilities not the woman,woman have a choice who they play with just like the guys,clubs are where I've met some amazing people in the scene,I will continue to encourage guys to go to clubs

Nothing wrong with trying a club to see whether it's really for you is it

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By *sGivesWoodWoman
over a year ago

ST. AUSTELL, CORNWALL


"he's right he's is not the fisrt person the are loads of men n women who come disappointed

some say they been harassed

some they being called names like look at that fat pig

somesay they paid £30 for entry+more expens n they come up with out playing so they have to wank themselves i could get a hooker for that amount of money n have a peaceful evening at home

lots of bad thing about clubs this the way I see it

IF U HUNG N CONFIDENT SINGLE GUY WHY BOTHER GO TO CLUBS AT THE END OF THE DAY THEY ARE DOING BUSINESS I GET LOTS OF INVITES EVEN FROM PEOPLE WHO DOESN'T OWN CLUBS WHY THE FUCK DO U INVITE SOMEONE IF U DON'T WANT PLAY WITH HIM THATS annoying

You seem to have missed the memo that tells people what swinging clubs are about.

There's a huge difference between sex clubs and swingers clubs, you should look it up.

Also, you're exactly the kind of man OP was talking about. "

Yes, an entitled one to avoid, done yourself no favours with that shouty post I'm sure most ladies would avoid as we don't want to be treated as free prostitutes.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I've persuaded a few guys/fems in my time to go to a club for there first time,and alot have really enjoyed themselves whether they played or not

Guys hear all sorts of horror stories,it dosent matter whether you are drop dead gorgeous with a huge cock or an average looking man,it's how you come across which makes for a good night

Being polite,respectful,able to chat and flirt and most importantly smile

Having the right attitude and no expectations

Your paying for the club entrance and use of the facilities not the woman,woman have a choice who they play with just like the guys,clubs are where I've met some amazing people in the scene,I will continue to encourage guys to go to clubs

Nothing wrong with trying a club to see whether it's really for you is it "

Well said , I’m going to try cougars and cubs at eureka when I’m free to.

Looking forward to trying a club for the first time.

I’ve been given a tip not to expect anything and just enjoy the friendly atmosphere.

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By *ownhouseTwosomeCouple
over a year ago

Birkenhead/Liverpool

I would say, the only way you are going to answer your questions is by attending a club yourself. Leave any preconceived ideas behind, do your research on your chosen club and see for yourself.

You will always get the for and against arguments on these threads which are all personal opinion. Some are biased, some are not.

So if you truly want to find out the answers and not throw the cat amongst the pigeons...take a breath and just go yourself If you don't like it, don't do it again.

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By *otlovefun42Couple
over a year ago

Costa Blanca Spain...


"I've persuaded a few guys/fems in my time to go to a club for there first time,and alot have really enjoyed themselves whether they played or not

Guys hear all sorts of horror stories,it dosent matter whether you are drop dead gorgeous with a huge cock or an average looking man,it's how you come across which makes for a good night

Being polite,respectful,able to chat and flirt and most importantly smile

Having the right attitude and no expectations

Your paying for the club entrance and use of the facilities not the woman,woman have a choice who they play with just like the guys,clubs are where I've met some amazing people in the scene,I will continue to encourage guys to go to clubs

Nothing wrong with trying a club to see whether it's really for you is it "

The above reminds me of one of our rare nights in a UK club.

It wasn't particularly busy but there were a few single guys milling around and a handful of other couples.

Most of the guys were just looking at the women and "fluffing" (I like that word ) their cocks, and when we went to have a look around the playrooms it was the usual "conga" behind us.

There were one or two decent looking ones who she would have played with if they had approached her/us properly but none did.

After a while we just stayed at the bar to finish the wine we had taken and then would have been ready to leave.

There was a guy stood next to us and he really wasn't the type of guy she would normally even look at but he said hello and started a conversation.

He was polite, funny a bit (but not too much) flirty and after about 15/20 minutes, much to my surprise, SHE asked him if he would like to go into a playroom.

Unless something else happened after we eventually left (which I doubt because we were almost the last to leave) he was the only single guy who got any action in the club that night.

The moral of the story is if you want to increase your chances of some fun in a club your personality is a much better tool than your cock.

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By *oiluvfunMan
over a year ago

Penrith


"I've persuaded a few guys/fems in my time to go to a club for there first time,and alot have really enjoyed themselves whether they played or not

Guys hear all sorts of horror stories,it dosent matter whether you are drop dead gorgeous with a huge cock or an average looking man,it's how you come across which makes for a good night

Being polite,respectful,able to chat and flirt and most importantly smile

Having the right attitude and no expectations

Your paying for the club entrance and use of the facilities not the woman,woman have a choice who they play with just like the guys,clubs are where I've met some amazing people in the scene,I will continue to encourage guys to go to clubs

Nothing wrong with trying a club to see whether it's really for you is it

The above reminds me of one of our rare nights in a UK club.

It wasn't particularly busy but there were a few single guys milling around and a handful of other couples.

Most of the guys were just looking at the women and "fluffing" (I like that word ) their cocks, and when we went to have a look around the playrooms it was the usual "conga" behind us.

There were one or two decent looking ones who she would have played with if they had approached her/us properly but none did.

After a while we just stayed at the bar to finish the wine we had taken and then would have been ready to leave.

There was a guy stood next to us and he really wasn't the type of guy she would normally even look at but he said hello and started a conversation.

He was polite, funny a bit (but not too much) flirty and after about 15/20 minutes, much to my surprise, SHE asked him if he would like to go into a playroom.

Unless something else happened after we eventually left (which I doubt because we were almost the last to leave) he was the only single guy who got any action in the club that night.

The moral of the story is if you want to increase your chances of some fun in a club your personality is a much better tool than your cock.

"

I've also been on the flip side of a similar evening, where there were five couples, one single female, and just myself and one other guy in. Having people turn their heads as I looked to try and start a conversation wasn't the friendly, outgoing reception I might have expected in a swingers' club on my first visit, and unsurprisingly my urge to leave was greater than my desire to stay.

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By *dores blackmenWoman
over a year ago

incognito mode ;-)


"I've persuaded a few guys/fems in my time to go to a club for there first time,and alot have really enjoyed themselves whether they played or not

Guys hear all sorts of horror stories,it dosent matter whether you are drop dead gorgeous with a huge cock or an average looking man,it's how you come across which makes for a good night

Being polite,respectful,able to chat and flirt and most importantly smile

Having the right attitude and no expectations

Your paying for the club entrance and use of the facilities not the woman,woman have a choice who they play with just like the guys,clubs are where I've met some amazing people in the scene,I will continue to encourage guys to go to clubs

Nothing wrong with trying a club to see whether it's really for you is it

Well said , I’m going to try cougars and cubs at eureka when I’m free to.

Looking forward to trying a club for the first time.

I’ve been given a tip not to expect anything and just enjoy the friendly atmosphere."

Well said too that's the attitude,

Also it's about looking at what's on the clubs events page,as paticular parties suit different tastes,there is also Cougarsandcubs party at the DV8 club in kent,maybe worth you trying too,they are different hosts/very different clubs

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By *otlovefun42Couple
over a year ago

Costa Blanca Spain...


"I've persuaded a few guys/fems in my time to go to a club for there first time,and alot have really enjoyed themselves whether they played or not

Guys hear all sorts of horror stories,it dosent matter whether you are drop dead gorgeous with a huge cock or an average looking man,it's how you come across which makes for a good night

Being polite,respectful,able to chat and flirt and most importantly smile

Having the right attitude and no expectations

Your paying for the club entrance and use of the facilities not the woman,woman have a choice who they play with just like the guys,clubs are where I've met some amazing people in the scene,I will continue to encourage guys to go to clubs

Nothing wrong with trying a club to see whether it's really for you is it

The above reminds me of one of our rare nights in a UK club.

It wasn't particularly busy but there were a few single guys milling around and a handful of other couples.

Most of the guys were just looking at the women and "fluffing" (I like that word ) their cocks, and when we went to have a look around the playrooms it was the usual "conga" behind us.

There were one or two decent looking ones who she would have played with if they had approached her/us properly but none did.

After a while we just stayed at the bar to finish the wine we had taken and then would have been ready to leave.

There was a guy stood next to us and he really wasn't the type of guy she would normally even look at but he said hello and started a conversation.

He was polite, funny a bit (but not too much) flirty and after about 15/20 minutes, much to my surprise, SHE asked him if he would like to go into a playroom.

Unless something else happened after we eventually left (which I doubt because we were almost the last to leave) he was the only single guy who got any action in the club that night.

The moral of the story is if you want to increase your chances of some fun in a club your personality is a much better tool than your cock.

I've also been on the flip side of a similar evening, where there were five couples, one single female, and just myself and one other guy in. Having people turn their heads as I looked to try and start a conversation wasn't the friendly, outgoing reception I might have expected in a swingers' club on my first visit, and unsurprisingly my urge to leave was greater than my desire to stay. "

Yes sadly some couples who don't want to get involved with single guys can come across as unfriendly.

Trying to talk can always be a bit hit and miss but if someone blanks you then just move on. You never know, the next couple you say hello to could be us.

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By *oiluvfunMan
over a year ago

Penrith


"I've persuaded a few guys/fems in my time to go to a club for there first time,and alot have really enjoyed themselves whether they played or not

Guys hear all sorts of horror stories,it dosent matter whether you are drop dead gorgeous with a huge cock or an average looking man,it's how you come across which makes for a good night

Being polite,respectful,able to chat and flirt and most importantly smile

Having the right attitude and no expectations

Your paying for the club entrance and use of the facilities not the woman,woman have a choice who they play with just like the guys,clubs are where I've met some amazing people in the scene,I will continue to encourage guys to go to clubs

Nothing wrong with trying a club to see whether it's really for you is it

The above reminds me of one of our rare nights in a UK club.

It wasn't particularly busy but there were a few single guys milling around and a handful of other couples.

Most of the guys were just looking at the women and "fluffing" (I like that word ) their cocks, and when we went to have a look around the playrooms it was the usual "conga" behind us.

There were one or two decent looking ones who she would have played with if they had approached her/us properly but none did.

After a while we just stayed at the bar to finish the wine we had taken and then would have been ready to leave.

There was a guy stood next to us and he really wasn't the type of guy she would normally even look at but he said hello and started a conversation.

He was polite, funny a bit (but not too much) flirty and after about 15/20 minutes, much to my surprise, SHE asked him if he would like to go into a playroom.

Unless something else happened after we eventually left (which I doubt because we were almost the last to leave) he was the only single guy who got any action in the club that night.

The moral of the story is if you want to increase your chances of some fun in a club your personality is a much better tool than your cock.

I've also been on the flip side of a similar evening, where there were five couples, one single female, and just myself and one other guy in. Having people turn their heads as I looked to try and start a conversation wasn't the friendly, outgoing reception I might have expected in a swingers' club on my first visit, and unsurprisingly my urge to leave was greater than my desire to stay.

Yes sadly some couples who don't want to get involved with single guys can come across as unfriendly.

Trying to talk can always be a bit hit and miss but if someone blanks you then just move on. You never know, the next couple you say hello to could be us. "

It's not put me off totally; I have two visits to two other clubs planned within the next couple of months. Got to be honest though; I'm only going because I'll be fairly local to both with my work, and it has to be better than an evening in a hotel bar with colleagues talking shop

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By *dores blackmenWoman
over a year ago

incognito mode ;-)


"

The moral of the story is if you want to increase your chances of some fun in a club your personality is a much better tool than your cock.

I've also been on the flip side of a similar evening, where there were five couples, one single female, and just myself and one other guy in. Having people turn their heads as I looked to try and start a conversation wasn't the friendly, outgoing reception I might have expected in a swingers' club on my first visit, and unsurprisingly my urge to leave was greater than my desire to stay. "

I've never been to a club that empty,I would have found that uncomfortable if I was that single woman let alone one of the single men,I'm always friendly and chat alot so wouldn't ignore people,so I would have chatted no harm in making a person feel welcome,I make it clear if don't want to play with a guy,just no need to be rude and ignore

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By *oiluvfunMan
over a year ago

Penrith


"

The moral of the story is if you want to increase your chances of some fun in a club your personality is a much better tool than your cock.

I've also been on the flip side of a similar evening, where there were five couples, one single female, and just myself and one other guy in. Having people turn their heads as I looked to try and start a conversation wasn't the friendly, outgoing reception I might have expected in a swingers' club on my first visit, and unsurprisingly my urge to leave was greater than my desire to stay.

I've never been to a club that empty,I would have found that uncomfortable if I was that single woman let alone one of the single men,I'm always friendly and chat alot so wouldn't ignore people,so I would have chatted no harm in making a person feel welcome,I make it clear if don't want to play with a guy,just no need to be rude and ignore

"

What was worse was; the single woman had posted up a 'Club meet' earlier in the day, saying she was going there that night, and anyone else to get in touch. So I messaged her, let her know it was my first time in a club, and would be nervous, even included my face pic. I saw she read the message, but didn't reply. Obviously I saw her there on the night, and yes, I stuck out like a sore thumb, but she made no attempt to talk to me, just mixed it with the regulars. Not difficult to understand why I've never been back

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By *ettyboop61Woman
over a year ago

St Neots


"We love clubs!

We love the whole liberated atmosphere

We love seeing others fuck and enjoy themselves

We love the fact there’s no pressure to swing but if you wanted to there are lots of opportunity’s to do so!

Go have a drink relax laugh chill out in pool/hot tub and have fun!

If your hell bent on getting a fuck go to whore house it’s gauranteed there!"

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"

The moral of the story is if you want to increase your chances of some fun in a club your personality is a much better tool than your cock.

I've also been on the flip side of a similar evening, where there were five couples, one single female, and just myself and one other guy in. Having people turn their heads as I looked to try and start a conversation wasn't the friendly, outgoing reception I might have expected in a swingers' club on my first visit, and unsurprisingly my urge to leave was greater than my desire to stay.

I've never been to a club that empty,I would have found that uncomfortable if I was that single woman let alone one of the single men,I'm always friendly and chat alot so wouldn't ignore people,so I would have chatted no harm in making a person feel welcome,I make it clear if don't want to play with a guy,just no need to be rude and ignore

What was worse was; the single woman had posted up a 'Club meet' earlier in the day, saying she was going there that night, and anyone else to get in touch. So I messaged her, let her know it was my first time in a club, and would be nervous, even included my face pic. I saw she read the message, but didn't reply. Obviously I saw her there on the night, and yes, I stuck out like a sore thumb, but she made no attempt to talk to me, just mixed it with the regulars. Not difficult to understand why I've never been back "

Don’t forget some women object to playing with married men.

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By *oiluvfunMan
over a year ago

Penrith


"

The moral of the story is if you want to increase your chances of some fun in a club your personality is a much better tool than your cock.

I've also been on the flip side of a similar evening, where there were five couples, one single female, and just myself and one other guy in. Having people turn their heads as I looked to try and start a conversation wasn't the friendly, outgoing reception I might have expected in a swingers' club on my first visit, and unsurprisingly my urge to leave was greater than my desire to stay.

I've never been to a club that empty,I would have found that uncomfortable if I was that single woman let alone one of the single men,I'm always friendly and chat alot so wouldn't ignore people,so I would have chatted no harm in making a person feel welcome,I make it clear if don't want to play with a guy,just no need to be rude and ignore

What was worse was; the single woman had posted up a 'Club meet' earlier in the day, saying she was going there that night, and anyone else to get in touch. So I messaged her, let her know it was my first time in a club, and would be nervous, even included my face pic. I saw she read the message, but didn't reply. Obviously I saw her there on the night, and yes, I stuck out like a sore thumb, but she made no attempt to talk to me, just mixed it with the regulars. Not difficult to understand why I've never been back

Don’t forget some women object to playing with married men."

That'll be it

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By *litterbabeWoman
over a year ago

hiding from cock pics.

Even if somebody is going to a club and puts a meet up, for people to get in touch if they are going too, as I often do myself, it doesn't mean that they are there to look after you, even if it is your first time.

I will normally try and say hello and be friendly, but I am there for my own purposes whether that be to chat to everybody or meet someone I have arranged.

Just because somebody says get in touch does not mean that they are going to spend a long time talking to you.

It might mean that they want their friends to get in touch, it might mean they might get a message off somebody who they have had their eye on for a while. Or it could just mean they're happy to say hello to everybody.

Unless they are the hosts of the club, (who may give you a tour or introduce you to others), you can't really expect anything at all from them.

Also it really could depend on your message to them, some of the messages I get when I tell people to say hello, if they are going on the same night, are quite literally comedy gold.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Traveling around the uk I have visited a few, some are very relaxing and clean, as to the clientele at some not for me. I now prefer a spa or a nice beach. Mary.

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By *abioMan
over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead


"

The moral of the story is if you want to increase your chances of some fun in a club your personality is a much better tool than your cock.

I've also been on the flip side of a similar evening, where there were five couples, one single female, and just myself and one other guy in. Having people turn their heads as I looked to try and start a conversation wasn't the friendly, outgoing reception I might have expected in a swingers' club on my first visit, and unsurprisingly my urge to leave was greater than my desire to stay.

I've never been to a club that empty,I would have found that uncomfortable if I was that single woman let alone one of the single men,I'm always friendly and chat alot so wouldn't ignore people,so I would have chatted no harm in making a person feel welcome,I make it clear if don't want to play with a guy,just no need to be rude and ignore

What was worse was; the single woman had posted up a 'Club meet' earlier in the day, saying she was going there that night, and anyone else to get in touch. So I messaged her, let her know it was my first time in a club, and would be nervous, even included my face pic. I saw she read the message, but didn't reply. Obviously I saw her there on the night, and yes, I stuck out like a sore thumb, but she made no attempt to talk to me, just mixed it with the regulars. Not difficult to understand why I've never been back

Don’t forget some women object to playing with married men.

That'll be it "

it may be an issue... it may not...

but what i will say is this...

its takes two....

you say you were waiting on her coming up to you.... so what stopped you going up to her, or talking to other people?

you may have been nervous... most people are 1st time they go...

lovely phrase.... if you wait some someone else to do something, most times nothing will get done....

i think that is the biggest mistake 1st timers make... i know the temptation is to just sit back and take it all in, but sometimes just going up to people and just saying hello will show others you are open, even if it is just conversation...

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By *oiluvfunMan
over a year ago

Penrith


"Even if somebody is going to a club and puts a meet up, for people to get in touch if they are going too, as I often do myself, it doesn't mean that they are there to look after you, even if it is your first time.

I will normally try and say hello and be friendly, but I am there for my own purposes whether that be to chat to everybody or meet someone I have arranged.

Just because somebody says get in touch does not mean that they are going to spend a long time talking to you.

It might mean that they want their friends to get in touch, it might mean they might get a message off somebody who they have had their eye on for a while. Or it could just mean they're happy to say hello to everybody.

Unless they are the hosts of the club, (who may give you a tour or introduce you to others), you can't really expect anything at all from them.

Also it really could depend on your message to them, some of the messages I get when I tell people to say hello, if they are going on the same night, are quite literally comedy gold."

If I remember, my message went along the lines of; "Hi there! I see you put a meet up for 'the club' tonight? I'm going to be there, it's my first time ever in a swing club, so I'll be the nervous 'newbie' at the bar lol. Hope to see you later" I did include my face pic

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By *uckandbunnyCouple
over a year ago

The Wild Wetness

This.

Because we rarely swing, we can't rely on bumping into a couple we have met before, so we have to actively chat and socialise, which is 100% against my hermit like nature.

We find lots of people couples and singles are waiting for some signal or maybe just a better offer. Lol.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

the couples n women should say these things because u don't know what's like being a single male on here or at clubs don't run ur mouth

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By *oiluvfunMan
over a year ago

Penrith


"

The moral of the story is if you want to increase your chances of some fun in a club your personality is a much better tool than your cock.

I've also been on the flip side of a similar evening, where there were five couples, one single female, and just myself and one other guy in. Having people turn their heads as I looked to try and start a conversation wasn't the friendly, outgoing reception I might have expected in a swingers' club on my first visit, and unsurprisingly my urge to leave was greater than my desire to stay.

I've never been to a club that empty,I would have found that uncomfortable if I was that single woman let alone one of the single men,I'm always friendly and chat alot so wouldn't ignore people,so I would have chatted no harm in making a person feel welcome,I make it clear if don't want to play with a guy,just no need to be rude and ignore

What was worse was; the single woman had posted up a 'Club meet' earlier in the day, saying she was going there that night, and anyone else to get in touch. So I messaged her, let her know it was my first time in a club, and would be nervous, even included my face pic. I saw she read the message, but didn't reply. Obviously I saw her there on the night, and yes, I stuck out like a sore thumb, but she made no attempt to talk to me, just mixed it with the regulars. Not difficult to understand why I've never been back

Don’t forget some women object to playing with married men.

That'll be it

it may be an issue... it may not...

but what i will say is this...

its takes two....

you say you were waiting on her coming up to you.... so what stopped you going up to her, or talking to other people?

you may have been nervous... most people are 1st time they go...

lovely phrase.... if you wait some someone else to do something, most times nothing will get done....

i think that is the biggest mistake 1st timers make... i know the temptation is to just sit back and take it all in, but sometimes just going up to people and just saying hello will show others you are open, even if it is just conversation..."

I had a great chat with the other single male in there, he could tell I was new, and nervous, and he did a great job of making me feel at ease, general chit-chat, and how to get the best out of being a single guy in a club. I also chatted with a nice, friendly couple at the bar, again in a very social way. Anyone who has actually met me, I hope, will confirm I am pleasant company. All I am saying here is, as a first time in a swing club, it wasn't the pinnacle of outgoing friendliness people lead you to believe

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By *litterbabeWoman
over a year ago

hiding from cock pics.

That does sound like a perfectly polite appropriate message and I certainly would reply.

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By *oiluvfunMan
over a year ago

Penrith


"That does sound like a perfectly polite appropriate message and I certainly would reply. "

Thank you

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By *abioMan
over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead


"

I had a great chat with the other single male in there, he could tell I was new, and nervous, and he did a great job of making me feel at ease, general chit-chat, and how to get the best out of being a single guy in a club. I also chatted with a nice, friendly couple at the bar, again in a very social way. Anyone who has actually met me, I hope, will confirm I am pleasant company. All I am saying here is, as a first time in a swing club, it wasn't the pinnacle of outgoing friendliness people lead you to believe "

but in both of those situation you said you waited on them to come to you.....

what actually stopped you from going round to people..... nothing did!

look we were all new once.... but sometimes you have to take a big breath and go out and be forward...

all you are saying to people is hello! its not a 1st attempt as some sort of m.o to get into someones thong....

as i said, it takes two..... they could have come up to you, as much as you could have gone up to them....

you didn't.... maybe next time you are in a club you will..... and maybe the true moral or the story is to not make assumptions/presumptions, because you'll never truely know one way or another until you say hello!

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By *oiluvfunMan
over a year ago

Penrith

[Removed by poster at 18/10/17 12:37:48]

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By *oiluvfunMan
over a year ago

Penrith


"

I had a great chat with the other single male in there, he could tell I was new, and nervous, and he did a great job of making me feel at ease, general chit-chat, and how to get the best out of being a single guy in a club. I also chatted with a nice, friendly couple at the bar, again in a very social way. Anyone who has actually met me, I hope, will confirm I am pleasant company. All I am saying here is, as a first time in a swing club, it wasn't the pinnacle of outgoing friendliness people lead you to believe

but in both of those situation you said you waited on them to come to you.....

what actually stopped you from going round to people..... nothing did!

look we were all new once.... but sometimes you have to take a big breath and go out and be forward...

all you are saying to people is hello! its not a 1st attempt as some sort of m.o to get into someones thong....

as i said, it takes two..... they could have come up to you, as much as you could have gone up to them....

you didn't.... maybe next time you are in a club you will..... and maybe the true moral or the story is to not make assumptions/presumptions, because you'll never truely know one way or another until you say hello!"

To be fair mate, I appreciate your advice to ease this walking on eggshells single guys have to perform in clubs, but what you may have missed earlier, when I've discussed this very night in other threads, is when I did have a wander around, and attempted to make eye contact, people just turned their heads to avoid me, making it quite clear my advances weren't welcome. So being respectful, I moved away, trying not to look disappointed, mournful, or too much like a fish out of water, which I very clearly was

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