FabSwingers.com forum: Chams

By *oretta Delamonte OP TV/TS
over a year ago

Birmingham

Chams bi night, how come they can charge a transexual more than a woman? surely this Isn't legal ???

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Do they really do that? I don't understand the different charges between men, women and couples at all really, to me it's discrimination.

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By *oretta Delamonte OP TV/TS
over a year ago

Birmingham

yes they do. In direct infringement of the equality act, 2010:

A private club or other association cannot discriminate against, harass or

victimise an existing or potential member or an associate because they are

trans. So, for example, it cannot refuse membership or grant membership on

less favourable terms by applying different conditions or fees.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"yes they do. In direct infringement of the equality act, 2010:

A private club or other association cannot discriminate against, harass or

victimise an existing or potential member or an associate because they are

trans. So, for example, it cannot refuse membership or grant membership on

less favourable terms by applying different conditions or fees."

Just wondering, did they tell you this is person? I am really suprised this happened, I thought they would be a bit more modern. I absolutely agree with discrimination laws, but I have heard these clubs are a grey zone, becaue they are operating out of legal means. Not sure if that is true though. I am sorry to hear this has happened to you, it really doesn't seem fair.

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By *oretta Delamonte OP TV/TS
over a year ago

Birmingham

Any club with a membership of 25+ is bound by the legislation.

It is not just happening to me, the admission of £28 applies to all transgender, or tgirls.

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By *umpkinMan
over a year ago

near the sounds of the wimborne quarter jack!

"Any club with a membership of 25+ is bound by the legislation.

It is not just happening to me, the admission of £28 applies to all transgender, or tgirls."

£33 for a single guy for the BBW Sunday the other week! You`re getting a discount!!!

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By *heartsasoneCouple
over a year ago

pdi winter hols.

It's not just Chams all the clubs charge a different price for single guys single females couples etc

For what we have found single guys will pay whatever that said Chams is the lowest entrance price in the clubs we have been too.

We like Chams because at least they invest that money into the club more than most clubs do.

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By *oretta Delamonte OP TV/TS
over a year ago

Birmingham

I am fem, you need to get up to date with your facts.

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By *oretta Delamonte OP TV/TS
over a year ago

Birmingham

That does not justify what is going on.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I am fem, you need to get up to date with your facts."

But I thought the Greenhouse was for gay males only?

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By *rs Butterfly.Woman
over a year ago

Wolverhampton

[Removed by poster at 03/09/15 22:42:38]

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

To play devils advocate...did you explain (assuming it ws over the phone) you were a transgender...as then you should have been charged as a single female as you now are. If there were confused on the phone and wrongly presumed you were a TV or TG then that mmay be where the price difference came from and not a deliberate infringement.

The equality laws also states that there can still be positive discrimination in favour of minority groups to encourage a more equal balance (as some chemists offer free diabetes checks to asian males over 45 (high risk group) or female only gyms)

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By *rs Butterfly.Woman
over a year ago

Wolverhampton

You seem to me to be only a fem when it suits you. You Can't have it both ways.

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By *oretta Delamonte OP TV/TS
over a year ago

Birmingham

No it isnt. there is no problem with tgirls using the club throughout the week, and a special tgirl event takes place on a fri. It is a health club.

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By *oretta Delamonte OP TV/TS
over a year ago

Birmingham

Why do you say that? is it fuelled by transphobia? I anm totally fem, and that remark is offensive,take note.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"No it isnt. there is no problem with tgirls using the club throughout the week, and a special tgirl event takes place on a fri. It is a health club."

But them I'm a little confused...if tgirls can use it and you class yourself as a female, then why can't I go? Surely this is discrimination on my behalf.

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By *oretta Delamonte OP TV/TS
over a year ago

Birmingham

Posative discrimination is healthy when applied to the balance needed in society. This is not a balance issue, This is a direct discrimination issue, I am not required by law to explain myself. I present as a female. end of.

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By *oretta Delamonte OP TV/TS
over a year ago

Birmingham

Cannot see any reason why you can't.

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By *harpDressed ManMan
over a year ago

Here occasionally, but mostly somewhere else

But as a fem you're OK with men being charged more?

How much equality are you actually looking for?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Cannot see any reason why you can't."

Females are not allowed in...I've enquired in the past.

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By *rs Butterfly.Woman
over a year ago

Wolverhampton

"Why do you say that? is it fuelled by transphobia? I anm totally fem, and that remark is offensive,take note."

I have no intention to offend however as a female I am not allowed to go the Greenhouse so how can you?

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By *oretta Delamonte OP TV/TS
over a year ago

Birmingham

No I am not okay with men being charged more- where did I say that?? And no, as much as I would like to, I cannot address all of the injustices in the world, as much as I would like to. Perhaps you could take the male injustice issue up?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Cannot see any reason why you can't.

Females are not allowed in...I've enquired in the past."

ditto .because I'd love to go and as a female I can't !!!!!

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By *oretta Delamonte OP TV/TS
over a year ago

Birmingham

Funny- I was told quite recently that couples where welcome- perhaps you should take issue with them- same owners as chams lol.

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By *oretta Delamonte OP TV/TS
over a year ago

Birmingham

Er may be because they have a 'tgirl night?' However, I have been told I can go anytime I like., so if you feel you are being discriminated against, do the same as me and complain to them, rather thantry to blame me lol.

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By *entaur_UKMan
over a year ago

Cannock

"Cannot see any reason why you can't.

Females are not allowed in...I've enquired in the past.

ditto .because I'd love to go and as a female I can't !!!!!"

I can't go in on Saturday nights as a single guy, most clubs seem to have that policy though.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

You can stay at the Greenhouse hotel as a woman, I have several times with my boyfriend. But why should a woman go into a gay mans suna? I don't think that is discrimination as it's clearly directed to gay men...

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By *oretta Delamonte OP TV/TS
over a year ago

Birmingham

Clubs can maintain a balance between males and females. What they cannot do is dicriminate between transitioning tgirls and genetic females.

However, I feel single men are 'milked' in more ways than one.lol.

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By *harpDressed ManMan
over a year ago

Here occasionally, but mostly somewhere else

Hypothetically, can a private club refuse entry to anyone they (don't) like, without having to give a reason?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I have been informed by a reliable source that if you have had everything changed (as in you're completely female) you'd get charged single woman prices but if you're still male dressing as a woman then you get charged £28 rather than single guy fees, im not 100% sure on why tht is but if you are female the state that so U would be charged single woman fees?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"You can stay at the Greenhouse hotel as a woman, I have several times with my boyfriend. But why should a woman go into a gay mans suna? I don't think that is discrimination as it's clearly directed to gay men..."

I completely agree and have no issue with the OP attending on a specific third night but if the OP wishes to be identified as a female and benefit from reduced female club entrance fees, then I don't agree that they should be able to attend the Greenhouse on any other night, just like every other female.

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By *entaur_UKMan
over a year ago

Cannock

"Hypothetically, can a private club refuse entry to anyone they (don't) like, without having to give a reason?"

Most nightclubs and pubs have a sign up stating "management reserve the right to refuse admission".

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Sorry for the typo....'tgirl' night

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By *oretta Delamonte OP TV/TS
over a year ago

Birmingham

Quite right. It used to be listed as a gay sauna, but on the recent certificates for awards won, it is listed as a health club.

Fridays is 'She dazzle day' when tgirls are invited. I have inquired about attending other days, and been told, no problem (as have other tgirls).

I have also inquired, on behalf of couples about them attending, and told arrangements could be made.

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By *oretta Delamonte OP TV/TS
over a year ago

Birmingham

You need to get up to date with the law. I 'present' as a female, am transitioning, and in the eyes of the law, AM a female.

If greenhouse wants to stop me attending, that is another issue.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Quite right. It used to be listed as a gay sauna, but on the recent certificates for awards won, it is listed as a health club.

Fridays is 'She dazzle day' when tgirls are invited. I have inquired about attending other days, and been told, no problem (as have other tgirls).

I have also inquired, on behalf of couples about them attending, and told arrangements could be made."

I have no idea about its specific designation and I also don't know about couples attending but I know single females are not allowed.

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By *oretta Delamonte OP TV/TS
over a year ago

Birmingham

No they can't. read my previous post. membership of 25 or more brings them within the act.

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By *oretta Delamonte OP TV/TS
over a year ago

Birmingham

Then take issue, if tgirls are allowed, you should have a case. I would support you.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"You need to get up to date with the law. I 'present' as a female, am transitioning, and in the eyes of the law, AM a female.

If greenhouse wants to stop me attending, that is another issue.

My point wasn't really so much about greenhouse and it's rules, more the fact that you wished to attend one club as a female but were then to utilise a tgirl status rather than a female status to enter another. Out of interest, is there one price for all users of the greenhouse...be they male or tgirl?

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By *oretta Delamonte OP TV/TS
over a year ago

Birmingham

Right, you do not need to have a certificate to prove you are transitioning, except to apply for a birth certificate or driving licence, etc.

You cannot (and should not ) be asked to produce the certificate by any body

(including the police in day to day circumstances).

To start transitioning, you need to inform two people , ie gp and another doctor, and be diagnosed with gender dysphoria. From that point you will be identified as the sex you present at. ie. female, and have the full protection of the law as a female. Hope this helps.

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By *harpDressed ManMan
over a year ago

Here occasionally, but mostly somewhere else

Maybe it's the club you should be discussing this with, instead of us ne'er do wells?

You don't seem to lack for facts, so this should be a very easy discussion.

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By *oretta Delamonte OP TV/TS
over a year ago

Birmingham

A, I always let people know that I am a fem- tgirl = transexual ( Try being a male to fem and not telling guys, that is for my own safety, dont like being beat up).

Havent a clue what others pay, that is nothing to do with me. If they think it is wrong, they should query what they pay, I am not their keeper.

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By *oretta Delamonte OP TV/TS
over a year ago

Birmingham

You joined the discussion, no one asked you to. And yes, I will be dicussing it with them.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Still unsure about the entrance fees for the Greenhouse...will look them up.

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By *harpDressed ManMan
over a year ago

Here occasionally, but mostly somewhere else

"You joined the discussion, no one asked you to. And yes, I will be dicussing it with them."

I thought it might be interesting....

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By *oretta Delamonte OP TV/TS
over a year ago

Birmingham

Maybe it's the club you should be discussing this with, instead of us ne'er do wells?

So you speak for the forum? interesting. you blocked me from replying directly to. interesting.

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By *oretta Delamonte OP TV/TS
over a year ago

Birmingham

Not sure what bearing that would have on my original comment???

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Still unsure about the entrance fees for the Greenhouse...will look them up."

One price apparently...no mention of tgirls that I can see at all.

I'm intrigued as to why you would go though OP, as it's still very much marketed as a Male Gay Sauna and yet your status was looking for a straight male playmate.

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By *oretta Delamonte OP TV/TS
over a year ago

Birmingham

You think hat no straight males go to greenhouse on a tgirl night?

. you have led a sheltered life.Seriously, if I had a fiver for every husband, macho guy, soldier, etc, that said they didn't go with bi's , only tgirls...

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By *evilishCouple69Couple
over a year ago

Glasgow

"Chams bi night, how come they can charge a transexual more than a woman? surely this Isn't legal ???"

I can't see the price list properly but maybe they mean that TV'S and TGirls get a discount from the single man price instead of TS having to pay more than cis fems? The way I see it, you're female, you pay fem rates. Maybe give the club a call so they know in advance that you're transitioning and can ensure entry without an explanation at the door

To be honest, I thought it was illegal to charge males and females different prices for entry to anywhere too but sadly it's just more accepted now as "the way it is"

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"You think hat no straight males go to greenhouse on a tgirl night?

. you have led a sheltered life.Seriously, if I had a fiver for every husband, macho guy, soldier, etc, that said they didn't go with bi's , only tgirls...

Good point well made!

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By *oretta Delamonte OP TV/TS
over a year ago

Birmingham

I am amazed at the response. Mainly folk taking a pot shot, and no, I am not perfect.

Just pointing out an injustice. The general response is- you change to suit your needs,what about this? what about that? etc. no I dont, and I cant change everything.

Just dissapointed in how people still feel about transgender persons. No wonder our suicide rate is so high.x

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By *LCCCouple
over a year ago

Cambridge

This all seems very confusing. OP you are female, and want to pay a female rate, but females arent allowed to attend the event anyway. Is that right or have I got the wrong end of the stick?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Transgender always pay the female entry rate at TEASE II which is currently £5, on a bi night such as tomorrow everyone pays £10 across the board

Simple, fair

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By *oretta Delamonte OP TV/TS
over a year ago

Birmingham

Yes, it is confusing. Firstly, I did not say that I WANT to pay a female rate. You need to read my original post, not say what you vaguely think I might have said, that would then save me a great deal of time replying to your question.

I was querying the legality of charging a different rate for transgender which on the face of it, appears to breach the sexual equality act.

As for wether other clubs have a no female rule,and yet let tgirls in, that is a very different issue, and something you might be better taking up with them, as it is nothing to do with my original post, so don't quite understand why folk would bring it up, unless it is just an excuse to take a dig at a transgender??

If I had said , in my original post, that they are charging different rates for black people, there would have been an uproar here.

But as it only concerns transgender, it appears some folk think it is fine, and that I should justify my self for even questioning it.

Transgender isn't a game to me, it is a way of life, that has completely changed my existance.

I have lost friends (and gained loads of better ones) Through bigotory ,and hatred.

I have to be very careful where I go, and who I talk to, as attack is a day to day posibillity (Think I would choose that if I had an option??)..

Comments like ' guy when it suits you' are untrue, and generated by the transphobia of mean, small minded, folk totally ignorant of the facts.

I am 24/7 transgender, and not a drag queen, and I do not dress as a woman to acheive sexual gratification, indeed, most of my time is spent in jeans, like a lot of women.

I have a wide circle of friends, both families,straights, gay guys,bi girls, tgirls, single females, black, white etc. , if fact just like any normal person.

As for stupid comments like 'play the hand you are dealt in life', well I cannot change how my brain is wired, any more than the next person.

This IS the hand I was dealt.

So, whilst I love the banter and comments of a forum like this, please don't use your replies to make veiled transphobic comments,be a bit more adult, and tolerant in life.

This is not aimed at anyone in particular, and I have recieved messages of support,and advice as well.

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By *oo hotCouple
over a year ago

North West

"You need to get up to date with the law. I 'present' as a female, am transitioning, and in the eyes of the law, AM a female.

If greenhouse wants to stop me attending, that is another issue.

So if you are transitioning then you are on the way from M to F. It appears that in terms of pricing you are also transitioning from the M price to F price.

TBH you sound a bit too angsty about this. Is there not a thought in your head about how fortunate you are to have facilities and opportunities like this around you?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"You need to get up to date with the law. I 'present' as a female, am transitioning, and in the eyes of the law, AM a female.

If greenhouse wants to stop me attending, that is another issue.

But why wouldnt the greenhouse stop you attending?

According to you your female so because of the should be allowed in chameleons at the same price as any other woman

That's fair enough to be honest I can't argue with that

But the greenhouse is a gay club for men, I wouldnt be allowed in so why would you think you should

Your either female or your not

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By *oretta Delamonte OP TV/TS
over a year ago

Birmingham

"You need to get up to date with the law. I 'present' as a female, am transitioning, and in the eyes of the law, AM a female.

If greenhouse wants to stop me attending, that is another issue.

Nothing to do with my original post.

Take it up with them if it bothers you, Not waste my time, thanks.

But why wouldnt the greenhouse stop you attending?

According to you your female so because of the should be allowed in chameleons at the same price as any other woman

That's fair enough to be honest I can't argue with that

But the greenhouse is a gay club for men, I wouldnt be allowed in so why would you think you should

Your either female or your not "

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By *oretta Delamonte OP TV/TS
over a year ago

Birmingham

"You need to get up to date with the law. I 'present' as a female, am transitioning, and in the eyes of the law, AM a female.

If greenhouse wants to stop me attending, that is another issue.

So if you are transitioning then you are on the way from M to F. It appears that in terms of pricing you are also transitioning from the M price to F price.

TBH you sound a bit too angsty about this. Is there not a thought in your head about how fortunate you are to have facilities and opportunities like this around you?"
Nothing to do with my original post. Try reading it, and it is not up to you to analyse my sexuality. that is a private and personal matter, shall we discuss yours?? no, thought not. Don't tell me how fortunate I am, if you want to be condesending, try some one else, it doesn't wash. may pay you to get a resposible adult to explain the sexual equality act, them maybe you could adddress the facts of the original post.

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