FabSwingers.com forum: Abfab smoking policy

By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

Has anyone else see the email from Abfab about the smoking at Abfab? If so what are your thoughts?

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By *andemanMan
over a year ago

bedforshire

What is the policy?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"What is the policy?"

In line with legislation (and fire regs), probably it wont be allowed anywhere on site..

(just an assumption)

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Its on the website..

have cut and paste.. sorry in caps.. as per it's written on the website..

DUE TO CHANGES IN THE REGULATIONS, KINDLY POINTED OUT TO US BY A GROUP OF OUR MEMBERS, WE NEED TO CHANGE OUR "SMOKING-AREA" POLICY. WE WILL BE CONSTRUCTING ONE CENTRALISED SMOKING FACILITY WHICH WILL BE THE ONLY PLACE YOU WILL BE ALLOWED TO SMOKE AT THIS VENUE. PLEASE NOTE THAT IT WILL BE ILLEGAL TO SMOKE ANYWHERE IN THE VENUE EXCEPT THE NEWLY DESIGNATED SMOKING SHELTER. THESE NEW PROCEDURES WILL COMMENCE AS SOON AS THE SHELTER IS ERECTED.

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By *ethnmelvCouple
over a year ago

Cardiff

Seems pretty reasonable, would like the place to stay open and comply with reg's. Can't see any issue.

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By *ownhouseTwosomeCouple
over a year ago

Birkenhead/Liverpool

I haven't been to AbFabs yet, so I don't know where the smoking area was before, but as a private members club or any venue that welcomes in members of the public, there should be an outdoor smoking area anyway? So I don't see what the problem is? As I say, I haven't been there, so I may be missing something completely here! lol

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Been to Abfabs and its a great club ( huge ! ) From memory the smoking area was away from the rest of club anyway so expect they are just moving it to a more suited location.

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By *ownhouseTwosomeCouple
over a year ago

Birkenhead/Liverpool

"Been to Abfabs and its a great club ( huge ! ) From memory the smoking area was away from the rest of club anyway so expect they are just moving it to a more suited location.

I wonder what the regulation is then that means they have to move it? hmmm

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Been to Abfabs and its a great club ( huge ! ) From memory the smoking area was away from the rest of club anyway so expect they are just moving it to a more suited location.

I wonder what the regulation is then that means they have to move it? hmmm"

Just asked sam to jog my memory lol, it was slightly of the main house and a kind of small marquee sort of thing, so would imagine they have to have a designated area with proper ventilation ?

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By *ownhouseTwosomeCouple
over a year ago

Birkenhead/Liverpool

"Been to Abfabs and its a great club ( huge ! ) From memory the smoking area was away from the rest of club anyway so expect they are just moving it to a more suited location.

I wonder what the regulation is then that means they have to move it? hmmm

Just asked sam to jog my memory lol, it was slightly of the main house and a kind of small marquee sort of thing, so would imagine they have to have a designated area with proper ventilation ? "

Ahh yes, that will be it. As far as I am aware, it needs to be a purpose built shelter. We were told that it has to have seating and lighting too, but I think that was just our council being picky as we had to jump through bloody hoops to get our licences!

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

That they have had to erect a smoking shelter after a group have threatened them with legal action should they not follow the law. While I agree that it's breaking the law and needs to be sorted I think that the group could have been more amicable considering the club is trying to stay open via high court

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By *ownhouseTwosomeCouple
over a year ago

Birkenhead/Liverpool

"That they have had to erect a smoking shelter after a group have threatened them with legal action should they not follow the law. While I agree that it's breaking the law and needs to be sorted I think that the group could have been more amicable considering the club is trying to stay open via high court"

Really?! There is so much drama around clubs at the moment!

Did the group go direct to the owners with their grievances first? x

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"Been to Abfabs and its a great club ( huge ! ) From memory the smoking area was away from the rest of club anyway so expect they are just moving it to a more suited location.

I wonder what the regulation is then that means they have to move it? hmmm

Just asked sam to jog my memory lol, it was slightly of the main house and a kind of small marquee sort of thing, so would imagine they have to have a designated area with proper ventilation ?

Your right with all this and as a ex smoker I agree it needs sorting. But with the council trying to find reasons to close the club I feel there were better ways of doing this. I could even mean a hike in fees.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

Really?! There is so much drama around clubs at the moment!

Did the group go direct to the owners with their grievances first? x"

Yeah giving a short time to respond, trouble was the threats were towards telling mp's and councillors

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

It would be sad loss if they achieve closing abfabs

Lets hope they can keep it open

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By *rish Blue Eyes GentMan
over a year ago

Earley

When I went I was vaping, I think they should ban smoking altogether and sell e-cigarettes to the smokers then it sorts everyone out.

Mr fix-it strikes again!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"When I went I was vaping, I think they should ban smoking altogether and sell e-cigarettes to the smokers then it sorts everyone out.

Mr fix-it strikes again!"

I dont want to " vape " thank you very much so not a fix really is it ?

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"When I went I was vaping, I think they should ban smoking altogether and sell e-cigarettes to the smokers then it sorts everyone out.

Mr fix-it strikes again!"

I think vaping looks just as bad as smoking plus nobody knows the long term health implications.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"When I went I was vaping, I think they should ban smoking altogether and sell e-cigarettes to the smokers then it sorts everyone out.

Mr fix-it strikes again!

I think vaping looks just as bad as smoking plus nobody knows the long term health implications. "

This is just the point about vaping! I'm asked everyday to insure the liquids and other bits but it can't be done in all honesty nobody knows the long term effects of these items!

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By *andtsurreyCouple
over a year ago

Torbay

" Did the group go direct to the owners with their grievances first? x"

Nope..it's an anonymous group who won't talk to the management. The letters have been sent for all members to read and they are aggressive and threatening.

We all want the smoking sorted but this was no way to go about it.

It will be a great loss if the venue closes

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

Nope..it's an anonymous group who won't talk to the management. The letters have been sent for all members to read and they are aggressive and threatening.

We all want the smoking sorted but this was no way to go about it.

It will be a great loss if the venue closes

It saddens me that these people are willing to ruin other peoples fun. As you say the smoking needed sorting, but this was uncalled for action.

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By *errygTV/TS
over a year ago

denton

im a ex smoker, and havnt people got better things to do than to report etc, last year i was on a ship and people smoked on there in the rec rooms and cabins, it is 8 yrs old smoking ban even my local pub when the doors close for regulars ashtrays come out

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"im a ex smoker, and havnt people got better things to do than to report etc, last year i was on a ship and people smoked on there in the rec rooms and cabins, it is 8 yrs old smoking ban even my local pub when the doors close for regulars ashtrays come out"

As like you I'm an ex smoker however I agree with the ban just feel smokers shouldn't be treated as leppers

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

A small group of anonymous members wrote a letter as has been mentioned already threatening the club to take action or else. The club's already fighting closure and there may not be one if the council has their way. Being a members club it would have been far more reasonable to talk to the team there rather than this underhand method. Been advised too that smokers won't be allowed to puff away on the sun loungers outside in the summer. Gutted!

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By *ownhouseTwosomeCouple
over a year ago

Birkenhead/Liverpool

It's poop that the owners weren't contacted directly! It seems that some people want the club to close!

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"It's poop that the owners weren't contacted directly! It seems that some people want the club to close!

They claim to really like the place and are regulars.

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By *bsinthe_boyMan
over a year ago

Luton

It's such a shame when Kestrels/Abfabs is fighting in court for survival that a group of people (supposedly members) took it upon themselves to write such threatening emails. As a member I have read them and they are very aggressive, and impatient.

Yes, I did wonder about the legality of the smoking arrangements myself but it personally doesn't bother me even though I use no nicotine products.

I would have thought a quiet word with the staff/management, or a more calm letter were in order. It would be a crying shame if we lost a fantastic venue due to this.

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By *ngelsdevilWoman
over a year ago

Merseyside

"It's poop that the owners weren't contacted directly! It seems that some people want the club to close!

They claim to really like the place and are regulars. "

Natural born moaning morons. God I would be fuming! They should just get banned from the club. If they don't like it they don't have to go!

They're probably reading the comments and reporting everyone who doesn't agree with them one by one...

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By *bsinthe_boyMan
over a year ago

Luton

Quite so! If they don't like it, then by all means make a complaint or even stop going....but don't ruin it for the hundreds of people who do love the club and for the people who work there.

What I found so objectionable was the tone of the emails especially the second.

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By *emmeFatale10Couple
over a year ago

Twickenham

What else are they fighting in court?

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By *eithoWoman
over a year ago

Chatham

Be very surprised if those members weren't people who went and got no action at the club and now have an axe to grind.

The smoking area was fine - outdoor, sheltered and away from the main house and dungeons. Seems absolutely pathetic in my opinion.

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By *eMontresMan
over a year ago

Halesowen

I think vaping looks just as bad as smoking plus nobody knows the long term health implications.

This is just the point about vaping! I'm asked everyday to insure the liquids and other bits but it can't be done in all honesty nobody knows the long term effects of these items! "

Looks, shcmooks - it's not the same thing at all, how do looks come into it?

Yes, you are correct, as a relatively new phenomenon, there are no long term studies yet. However, the constituent elements in properly manufactured liquid, are considered safe for human consumption, and we know that there are around 4,000 carcinogens in smoke (any smoke from vegetable matter, not just tobacco).

Studies that do exit thus far, show massive improvements in health by switching to vaping, huge success in smoking cessation compared to all other methods, and almost zero uptake of vaping by anyone other than existing smokers.

Of course it should be done in a considerate manner, but the vapour is the same stuff you gladly inhale if at a gig or in the theatre when they use the dry ice. If you're concerned about passive inhalation, you're concerns would probably be better directed to the amount of toxins spewed out by automotive vehicles, especially buses, coaches and trucks.

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By *bsinthe_boyMan
over a year ago

Luton

I must admit - and I say this as a user of no nicotine products at all - that I don't understand the hysteria around vaping.

As far as I can tell from the research that has been conducted, if the liquid used is what it's supposed to be then the health risks are far less than tobacco and the risks to people close to someone who is vaping are negligable.

There is a fair amount of research showing that vaping is no more dangerous than drinking coffee or cola. And one rather hysterical report saying it's horrid, dangerous and nasty....and sadly that's the one reported in the tabloids.

I have quite a few friends who switched from smoking cigarettes to vaping and there's a notable improvement in their general health, energy and well-being. They get their nicotine (to which they are of course still addicted) and their physical habit fed....but without the rest of the nasties in tobacco smoke.

As for Abfabs, I had no problem with the marquee style smoking area but I did wonder if it complied with the law. It probably doesn't but writing anonymous threatening letters isn't the way to go about it.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

Smoking was considered healthy when it was a new thing to do. Only in recent years have people been more knowing of the risks. Just because some if the recent test show no ill effects it don't mean that if people vape for the next 20+ years they will/won't have effects.

I smoked for 12 years and have no side effects don't mean tat long term I won't have any. Will it?

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By *bsinthe_boyMan
over a year ago

Luton

"Smoking was considered healthy when it was a new thing to do. Only in recent years have people been more knowing of the risks. Just because some if the recent test show no ill effects it don't mean that if people vape for the next 20+ years they will/won't have effects.

I smoked for 12 years and have no side effects don't mean tat long term I won't have any. Will it?"

The dangers of smoking have been known pretty well since at least the 1950s, not long after serious research was begun. Over the years we've understood more but the direct causal link to various cancers, heart disease, COPD, arteriosclerosis and so on have been known for about 60 years.

Yes, some people smoke for decades with no ill-effects. Winston Churchill was one. But on average it's damaging to health.

With vaping, I will allow that research isn't as conclusive as smoking research was by the late 50s. But the main cause for concern seems to be where the liquid used doesn't contain what it is said to contain. That isn't an indictment of vaping in itself but the ruddy tabloids tell us that it is - because that sells more papers than a story that vaping is safer than smoking.

But back to the point, Kestrels/Abfabs is a great club and it's sad that some people have taken it upon themselves to deliberately threaten and try to damage the club. A quiet word in the ear of the staff, or a non-threatening letter would have been sufficient. It seems that as soon as they were aware that their smoking area wasn't compliant with the health act they immediately ordered a suitable shelter. It just takes time to have it professionally built - and money of course. The writers of these intimidating letters seem to think that it's a matter of a a day or two between receiving the letter and having a shelter up and running with lighting, heating etc. I wonder just what they have been smoking themselves....

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By *horeyMan
over a year ago

Calne

"The smoking area was fine - outdoor, sheltered and away from the main house and dungeons. Seems absolutely pathetic in my opinion. "

I've never smoked and generally don't like smoking in public places; yet I don't ever remember the smoking area being a problem at AbFab. It's by the cinema room isn't it?...outside and not on the way to anywhere else, so no reason why it should be an issue for non-smokers. What am I missing?

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By *bsinthe_boyMan
over a year ago

Luton

There's a smoking area between the pool area and dungeon, beside the walkway. Its probably non compliant as it is covered ny a marquee type structure. Its the area with wooden picnic tables.

not a problem for most people but technically not legal.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"There's a smoking area between the pool area and dungeon, beside the walkway. Its probably non compliant as it is covered ny a marquee type structure. Its the area with wooden picnic tables.

not a problem for most people but technically not legal."

We've just come back from there and are a little surprised that the owners still haven't really bothered. They have put up a sign stating that the marquee smoking area is in use until the shelter is completed however they are still allowing smoking in other areas. It worries me that this anonymous group will actually go through with their threat and get councillors/mp's involved and they will get shut for breach of a law passed 8 years ago.

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By *osieWoman
over a year ago

Wembley

I like AbFab/Kestrel. I am a non-smoker but I am neither for nor against people smoking. I do not want to meet with smokers but that is mainly because I do not like the smell

I can understand that some people are anti-smoking and I respect that too. But the anti-smoking group who wrote this letter must be members as well and as such, could have politely put their views forward to the organisers

I do not know how many active members AbFab/Kestrel have. But let us say, 1000. If I were asked to pay a one-off £5 towards setting up this smoking shelter so that the club could remain open, then I would do so gladly

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By *bsinthe_boyMan
over a year ago

Luton

I know some people have asked in this thread what other issues threaten Abfabs/Kestrels.

As I understand it a couple of years ago the council really did order them to close. It was something to do with not having planning permission for the out-buildings on the site. Kestrels got support from local home owners and businesses who all said that the club causes no trouble (indeed I think many were surprised to learn that there *was* a club).

As usual the tabloid rags sensationalised it all and tried to make their readers feel that this "hobby" is morally wrong.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"I know some people have asked in this thread what other issues threaten Abfabs/Kestrels.

As usual the tabloid rags sensationalised it all and tried to make their readers feel that this "hobby" is morally wrong."

From my knowledge it wasn't put in the tabloids however the issue was with the buildings on green belt land. As to date the club is still fighting this at the high court, hence why this kind of threatening behaviour could be more damaging then they think

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By *bsinthe_boyMan
over a year ago

Luton

It was in the Daily Mail for sure.

Yes it's a huge shame that someone sees fit to cause more problems for the club. It's a truly fantastic venue and everyone I have encountered there has been friendly & respectful. It would be a huge shame to lose it.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"It was in the Daily Mail for sure.

Funny how anything like this always appears in the daily mail!

Agreed about the club I'd be truly gutted if something bad happened to it.

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By *bsinthe_boyMan
over a year ago

Luton

I was at Abfabs last night (Monday) and they have now put signs up in the marquee area between the pool and dungeon saying "No smoking"

Additionally the tables all have similar signs and a laminated sheet of paper explaining that smoking is currently only allowed in the designated areas near the cinema and dungeon, with advice that non-smokers avoid those areas.

It also mentions that a proper smoking shelter will be installed soon.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"I was at Abfabs last night (Monday) and they have now put signs up in the marquee area between the pool and dungeon saying "No smoking"

It also mentions that a proper smoking shelter will be installed soon."

I hope this sorts it out on Saturday they had ashtrays on all the tables leading down to the dungeon and just outside. The posters were up though

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By *bsinthe_boyMan
over a year ago

Luton

I'd like to say that I saw nobody smoking at the tables. While this is true, I was kept so entertained in the pool I didn't soend much time elsewhere. However there were no ashtrays.

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