FabSwingers.com forum: Swing clubs that think there above the law..

By *iceduo OP Couple (FF)
over a year ago

manchester

I won't mention any names as im not like that, but i want to know what people think. Basically been told i cant go to a event as im a non-op female transexual. I believe that is beside the point, it says female on my birth certificate. Female on my driving licence and im female at work, in fact everyone in my life treats me as female, i even look female.

The point is that a club is a business, and is governed by the laws of the land, and those laws say that they must treat me like any other female, so refusing me entry on the basis of my gender is against the law. To be honest i dont want to be anywhere im not welcome but that is beside the point, why do certain clubs think they are don't have to abide by the law, imagine if they refused entry on the basis of race.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

How did they know, if all docs say female?

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By *iceduo OP Couple (FF)
over a year ago

manchester

Lol coz im a chick with a dick, i find it wise to ask if my kind are welcome first.. if you know what i mean.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Lol coz im a chick with a dick, i find it wise to ask if my kind are welcome first.. if you know what i mean. "

how can your birth certificate say female?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Because she's transexual. Lives works, exists as female with no intention of ever living as a male. Presumably she has a gender recognition certificate which legally designates her as female.

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By *iceduo OP Couple (FF)
over a year ago

manchester

[Removed by poster at 29/05/14 18:13:53]

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By *iceduo OP Couple (FF)
over a year ago

manchester

"Lol coz im a chick with a dick, i find it wise to ask if my kind are welcome first.. if you know what i mean.

how can your birth certificate say female?"

Because i have lived as a female for over two years and have undergone hormone therapy etc. In the Uk thats what you have to do to change your gender legally, you dont need to have gentail sugery.

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By *ittle_brat_evie!!Woman
over a year ago

evesham

I get what you are saying but until someone challenges What the club is doing through legal channels then they will get away with it.

If you can prove that it is because of your non-op status etc then you have a case. Ie have you kept copies of any emails confirming this is the reason because if not the club could change their story.

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By *icecouple561Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

East Sussex

"Lol coz im a chick with a dick, i find it wise to ask if my kind are welcome first.. if you know what i mean.

how can your birth certificate say female?

Because i have lived as a female for over two years and have undergone hormone therapy etc. In the Uk thats what you have to do to change your gender legally, you dont need to have gentail sugery. "

Without knowing the absolute full story I would say they are treading on very thin ice, to say you aren't welcome is wrong and very short sighted of them. Did they give a reason?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Have e mailed privately as well but I think you should name the club ! I suspect they may change policy

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By *iceduo OP Couple (FF)
over a year ago

manchester

"Lol coz im a chick with a dick, i find it wise to ask if my kind are welcome first.. if you know what i mean.

how can your birth certificate say female?

Because i have lived as a female for over two years and have undergone hormone therapy etc. In the Uk thats what you have to do to change your gender legally, you dont need to have gentail sugery.

Without knowing the absolute full story I would say they are treading on very thin ice, to say you aren't welcome is wrong and very short sighted of them. Did they give a reason?"

no reason was given just that i wasn't welcome.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

But business's can discriminate.. hense all boy or all girls schools.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

If the law is the same as pub laws then they do not need to give a reason not to admit a particular person. In which case they are not breaking any laws.

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By *iceduo OP Couple (FF)
over a year ago

manchester

"If the law is the same as pub laws then they do not need to give a reason not to admit a particular person. In which case they are not breaking any laws."

yes that reason cant be based on gender race etc.. ie you cant refuse service on that basis,but you can if say they are smelly etc they have refused me on the basis of gender and i have the email to prove it

"The right to gender reassignment treatment has been held to constitute an aspect of private life within Article 8 of the European Convention on Human Rights, and discrimination against transsexuals is contrary to EC law, in the form of the Equal Treatment Directive. The Gender Reassignment Regulations 1999 which amended the Sex Discrimination Act 1995 prohibiting discrimination in employment and vocational training, as well as in the provision of goods, facilities and services. In addition public authorities are under a general equality duty to have due regard to the elimination of discrimination and harassment against transsexuals."

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By *ittle_brat_evie!!Woman
over a year ago

evesham

Unless you can prove that it is wholly down to your gender etched you would have a tough case to fight.

Do you have proof that they are not allowing any other non op tans people in?

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By *iceduo OP Couple (FF)
over a year ago

manchester

"Unless you can prove that it is wholly down to your gender etched you would have a tough case to fight.

Do you have proof that they are not allowing any other non op tans people in?"

tbh the email is pretty damning in its self..

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By *lackCherryCouple
over a year ago

Bristol

Clubs are private organisations and thus can deny membership or attendance for any reason they deem necessary.

Quite frankly I find your shtick on these forums a little odd and always have.

I also find it incredible that you can be legally a "female" while still packing heat (as it were).

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Lol coz im a chick with a dick, i find it wise to ask if my kind are welcome first.. if you know what i mean. "

Your more than welcome at bikeswing which is our own party we would absolutly love it if you were there xxxxx

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By *iceduo OP Couple (FF)
over a year ago

manchester

"Lol coz im a chick with a dick, i find it wise to ask if my kind are welcome first.. if you know what i mean.

Your more than welcome at bikeswing which is our own party we would absolutly love it if you were there xxxxx"

aww shame you are so far away

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I think at the very least you should leave a review of the club.

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By *ancs MinxWoman
over a year ago

Burnley

Is it that private clubs can decide who they do and don't let in, and therefore classed differently to other establishments?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Unless you can prove that it is wholly down to your gender etched you would have a tough case to fight.

Do you have proof that they are not allowing any other non op tans people in?

tbh the email is pretty damning in its self.. "

But earlier in the thread you said no reason was given?

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By *iceduo OP Couple (FF)
over a year ago

manchester

"Unless you can prove that it is wholly down to your gender etched you would have a tough case to fight.

Do you have proof that they are not allowing any other non op tans people in?

tbh the email is pretty damning in its self..

But earlier in the thread you said no reason was given?

sent a email just cheking that as a transexual id be welcome, said i had ID etc, was told i wasnt and they have a special night for my kind.. x

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By *abioMan
over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead

"I won't mention any names as im not like that, but i want to know what people think. Basically been told i cant go to a event as im a non-op female transexual. I believe that is beside the point, it says female on my birth certificate. Female on my driving licence and im female at work, in fact everyone in my life treats me as female, i even look female.

however I sympathise with your position, legally its going to be hard to prove...

unless they flat out say "yes that it the reason you have been refused" they still have R.O.A.R (Rights Over Admission Reserved) the same as any nightclub or bar would have for example...

they could just turn round and say "we're full".. or "not dressed right" or a million other reasons and they would legally have the right to turn you away....

you just hit on the reason "you" think you were turned away... you may be right, you may be wrong... but since we only know one side of the story... we will never know....

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Unless you can prove that it is wholly down to your gender etched you would have a tough case to fight.

Do you have proof that they are not allowing any other non op tans people in?

tbh the email is pretty damning in its self..

But earlier in the thread you said no reason was given?

sent a email just cheking that as a transexual id be welcome, said i had ID etc, was told i wasnt and they have a special night for my kind.. x"

So really they aren't discriminating against you any more than the numerous clubs which don't allow single men on certain nights?

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By *abioMan
over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead

no reason was given just that i wasn't welcome. "

if no reason was given.. you dont have a case legally.....

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Unless you can prove that it is wholly down to your gender etched you would have a tough case to fight.

Do you have proof that they are not allowing any other non op tans people in?

tbh the email is pretty damning in its self..

But earlier in the thread you said no reason was given?

sent a email just cheking that as a transexual id be welcome, said i had ID etc, was told i wasnt and they have a special night for my kind.. x"

So a reason was given then...

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Same user posted same thread some months ago!

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By *ittle_brat_evie!!Woman
over a year ago

evesham

[Removed by poster at 29/05/14 19:42:19]

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

[Removed by poster at 29/05/14 19:51:20]

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By *lackCherryCouple
over a year ago

Bristol

So really they aren't discriminating against you any more than the numerous clubs which don't allow single men on certain nights? "

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

A warm welcome awaits you at Blackpool Connections mixed sauna. A club that embraces every sexuality at all times, we believe in equality. A club where you can turn fantasy into reality. A place where you can feel safe to play, and be who you are. A place where NO! means NO!and you will pay what a girls pay to get in as this is 2014 not 1970

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

just as a matter of interest but if your classed as female why have you made a M/F profile and not a F/F profile?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

cupids will not let transgender or transsexual in and it looks like the new club Amour Manchester is the same its sad

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

The club may feel that although many would be perfectly OK with finding you are a chick with a dick , others may not .

Would you tell prospective playmates first ?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Most swing clubs appear to discrimminate in one form or another, mainly against single guys:-

Single men not allowed or being charged twice the entrance fees as couples and many times more than single females, however this seems an acceptable form of discrimmination which appears odd to me.

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By *acciWoman
over a year ago

leeds

Swingers clubs are private members club,so can therefore refuse entry to anyone. Even being a member doesnt give you automatic right of entry,in law the only ones with automatic right of entry are...Trading Standards,weights and measure,Env health,Fire brigade. The police need to be invited in or get a warrant,and paramedics need to be invited in too. I know this because i worked for Rank Leisure and it was drummed into me lol

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By *ario777Man
over a year ago

Burton

Having read your post and the various replies, I though that I would add my personal view on this subject.

I find transsexuals perfectly acceptable, in fact I would consider meeting and playing with one, however I can to an extent understand the stance of the management of this club. If they have a policy of only allowing transsexuals to certain events, I would consider that reasonable. It could be that they also have policies on gay people and single males.

Perhaps you could look at it from a totally heterosexual male prospective? A man like your looks and conversation only to find that if you both start to play, you have male parts! if he is not happy with a transsexual, he could freak.

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By *ittle_brat_evie!!Woman
over a year ago

evesham

"Having read your post and the various replies, I though that I would add my personal view on this subject.

And that is acceptable.behaviour because?

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By *ittle_brat_evie!!Woman
over a year ago

evesham

"cupids will not let transgender or transsexual in and it looks like the new club Amour Manchester is the same its sad

At all or on certain nights? If it's,at all then that's against the law.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Having read your post and the various replies, I though that I would add my personal view on this subject.

And that is acceptable.behaviour because?"

Acceptable behaviour by who ?

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By *ittle_brat_evie!!Woman
over a year ago

evesham

"Having read your post and the various replies, I though that I would add my personal view on this subject.

And that is acceptable.behaviour because?

Acceptable behaviour by who ?"

Both parties

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

If the heterosexual guy doesn't know beforehand , how is his behaviour unacceptable ?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Pretty uniquely for public venues in a swingers club the exposure and use of genitalia is kind of the point! if that genitalia is male then sorry I ain't sucking it just because your passport says it isn't there.

Swingers clubs are for people to have a good time (and in return hand over cash at the door / bar etc. which makes the club a viable business), if there is a risk of one couple deciding not to attend again because the owner bowed to the law and allowed the OP in then they would be at risk of being out of business and the entire community losses an asset.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I gues as u complained you still have to pay to get into cos u got a penis?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"The club may feel that although many would be perfectly OK with finding you are a chick with a dick , others may not .

Would you tell prospective playmates first ?

if we were transgender or transsexual yes

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By *ittle_brat_evie!!Woman
over a year ago

evesham

"If the heterosexual guy doesn't know beforehand , how is his behaviour unacceptable ? "

I'd understand him being miffed but 'freaking' just seemed extreme.

But I agree the wrong doing initially would be on the transfer gender person for not saying before it got heated.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Pretty uniquely for public venues in a swingers club the exposure and use of genitalia is kind of the point! if that genitalia is male then sorry I ain't sucking it just because your passport says it isn't there.

SO IS IT OK TO SAY NO BLACKS THERN OR NO BI MEN OR NO JEWS JUST LIVE AND LET LIVE.

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By *lubPartyPeepsCouple
over a year ago

London

Personally, vote with your wallet.

Would you want to give your money to the owner of a club even if the law did force them to let you in? We wouldn't. certainly.

Spend your money where your welcome, which means the chances are you will have a better night out anyway.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"SO IS IT OK TO SAY NO BLACKS THERN OR NO BI MEN OR NO JEWS JUST LIVE AND LET LIVE."

No, however if you are having a Bar Mitzvah party it may be wise to refuse entry to the person dressed in the SS uniform. Even if they do claim their rights in capitals.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"SO IS IT OK TO SAY NO BLACKS THERN OR NO BI MEN OR NO JEWS JUST LIVE AND LET LIVE.

No, however if you are having a Bar Mitzvah party it may be wise to refuse entry to the person dressed in the SS uniform. Even if they do claim their rights in capitals."

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Not all clubs break the law but lots do in some small way. Some in lots of small ways! if they are good then they should be able to survive like any other and abide by the law. Some don't comply with the simplest of laws

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By *imon_hydeMan
over a year ago

Butlins, Bognor Regis

If always thought it odd that clubs and there patrons can be so off with transgender, mind you male bisexuality is still frowned on. You try playing on any night that isn't specifically bi...

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Lol coz im a chick with a dick, i find it wise to ask if my kind are welcome first.. if you know what i mean.

how can your birth certificate say female?

Because i have lived as a female for over two years and have undergone hormone therapy etc. In the Uk thats what you have to do to change your gender legally, you dont need to have gentail sugery. "

If your not capable of giving birth to a baby by Mother Nature intentions sorry but in my eyes you are no woman you can act and dress like a female but deep down your a MAN end of.

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By *ancs MinxWoman
over a year ago

Burnley

"cupids will not let transgender or transsexual in and it looks like the new club Amour Manchester is the same its sad

its not sad at all, each to their own views!!..enough clubs around to choose from

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"If your not capable of giving birth to a baby by Mother Nature intentions sorry but in my eyes you are no woman you can act and dress like a female but deep down your a MAN end of. "

You sure about that? Because by that logic any woman that is infertile ir had an hysterectomy is 'a man'

Which I know isn't what you meant but neatly highlights the intolerance in that post

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"If your not capable of giving birth to a baby by Mother Nature intentions sorry but in my eyes you are no woman you can act and dress like a female but deep down your a MAN end of.

You sure about that? Because by that logic any woman that is infertile ir had an hysterectomy is 'a man'

Which I know isn't what you meant but neatly highlights the intolerance in that post"

As I'm aware of your intelligence to understand my concerns. but your post was pathetic Criticism hence why the law of are land is shit, as it was ovious what I meant, now all woman that can't conceive by natural ways this thread had no way meant to offend. But my statement is this does a man have all the bits to conceive and carry a baby no he don't so before you even think about picking faults in my thread look at the bigger picture he is no woman.

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By *ancs MinxWoman
over a year ago

Burnley

"If your not capable of giving birth to a baby by Mother Nature intentions sorry but in my eyes you are no woman you can act and dress like a female but deep down your a MAN end of.

You sure about that? Because by that logic any woman that is infertile ir had an hysterectomy is 'a man'

Which I know isn't what you meant but neatly highlights the intolerance in that post

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By *nsert user name hereMan
over a year ago

Manchester

I don't see the problem tbh, they have nights when your welcome.

I've not been to a club but my understanding is they have bi night's, couples only, black guys, greedy girls.. Etc. Surely they try to cater for everyone and if your interested in going you go on a night that applied and would have people your interested in meeting going? Why feel the need to force your sexuality? Just because certain members of society don't want to see or be with you doesn't make them anything there just choosing what they want.

Like myself I have no interest in transgender, transsexuals or cross dressing etc etc. I'm not phobic I have no problem with anyones choices but I don't want to sleep with them same as ugly feckers to

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By *lackCherryCouple
over a year ago

Bristol

I think the giving birth or not argument is probably a little off base here, however its probably fair to say that still owning a working functioning penis and being legally a woman is a little farcical.

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By *iceduo OP Couple (FF)
over a year ago

manchester

[Removed by poster at 01/06/14 13:20:12]

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By *iceduo OP Couple (FF)
over a year ago

manchester

"If your not capable of giving birth to a baby by Mother Nature intentions sorry but in my eyes you are no woman you can act and dress like a female but deep down your a MAN end of.

You sure about that? Because by that logic any woman that is infertile ir had an hysterectomy is 'a man'

Which I know isn't what you meant but neatly highlights the intolerance in that post

so if you were to lose yore penis in a accident(it does happen)then by your logic you would then be a woman..lol

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

While I understand the need for trans rights to be addressed, I feel that the swinging world is very far down the list of places that need to capitulate. Purely because it involves intimate physical contact.

It's not like a workplace where it's the quality of your work which should speak for you, not your gender. It's people meeting to fuck. And not everyone, I'd say a majority, want to fuck a TS or watch one fucking.

Choose your battles, fight the ones that matter.

As for the idiotic comment by our neanderthal friend, welcome to the 21st century. I'm amazed you can type what with having to put your brain to more important tasks, like breathing and blinking at the same time.

I'd there's any words I need to explain in this post, PM me and I'll explain with crayon drawings.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I've had a hysterectomy and still fancy men. Am I gay!!!!

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By *orthwest_cplCouple
over a year ago

Stretford

"While I understand the need for trans rights to be addressed, I feel that the swinging world is very far down the list of places that need to capitulate. Purely because it involves intimate physical contact.

Choose your battles, fight the ones that matter.

I'd there's any words I need to explain in this post, PM me and I'll explain with crayon drawings. "

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By *ittle_brat_evie!!Woman
over a year ago

evesham

"If your not capable of giving birth to a baby by Mother Nature intentions sorry but in my eyes you are no woman you can act and dress like a female but deep down your a MAN end of.

You sure about that? Because by that logic any woman that is infertile ir had an hysterectomy is 'a man'

Which I know isn't what you meant but neatly highlights the intolerance in that post

so if you were to lose yore penis in a accident(it does happen)then by your logic you would then be a woman..lol "

No, that's not what he is saying. He is saying you can't be a woman unless you have all the bits and bobs to conceive and carry a baby.

He is wrong but I thought I'd just clarify

Personally I don't understand why you would chose to be seen as a woman if you still have male genitals but if the law says its OK then I can't see why people are getting their intolerant knickers in a twist.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Sorry wat was the debate here

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By *ee VianteWoman
over a year ago

Somewhere in North Norfolk

They can exclude anyone they like, for any reason they like. Their venue, their rules. I don't think it would be considered illegal.

I can see your point but I can also see why some women would be uncomfortable with attendees with male genitalia at a women only night.

It's a difficult situation but I'm sorry you've been excluded and it's upset you.

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By *abcouple11Couple
over a year ago

Truro

Club / venue has to know what it's about. Secret of a successful venue. Everyone knows that and supports the hosts. They have to be tough. You take it personal and you'll be the only loser. There's other clubs - lots of them.

It can be a sign of a condition to demand to be accepted in various places - you find it with religions, etc. You have to know who you are and love being that, in the strata in which you fit...

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By *oandjohnCouple
over a year ago

South Wales, will travel to Hereford, Worcestershire and Shropshire

I guess that until you have had the op you are stuck in the middle ground. You could bring a case but I guess that until you have had the op they would have a defence.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

[Removed by poster at 02/06/14 01:46:44]

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

[Removed by poster at 02/06/14 01:43:57]

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"cupids will not let transgender or transsexual in and it looks like the new club Amour Manchester is the same its sad

its not sad at all, each to their own views!!..enough clubs around to choose from"

but you go to cupids and your Bi-curious

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I'm the end, I suppose what you cannot legislate for is someone's sexual preferences and the club is trying to meet the needs of the majority of it's customers...if that excludes you it'll never matter what is on your driving licence or birth certificate...people will make a decision about whether or not they want to fuck you based on a very complex mixture of visual and psychological cues that they have little rational control over...clubs sell an environment that encourage and enable sexual activity, if adding you into the mix affects that ambience and therefore people's likelihood of attending and therefore their ability to generate income they will make a decision based on that

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By *ancs MinxWoman
over a year ago

Burnley

"cupids will not let transgender or transsexual in and it looks like the new club Amour Manchester is the same its sad

its not sad at all, each to their own views!!..enough clubs around to choose from

but you go to cupids and your Bi-curious"

yes and i am a woman, not a man pretending to be a woman...i have all the parts i was born with still there....big difference!!!!

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By *ancs MinxWoman
over a year ago

Burnley

"Club / venue has to know what it's about. Secret of a successful venue. Everyone knows that and supports the hosts. They have to be tough. You take it personal and you'll be the only loser. There's other clubs - lots of them.

It can be a sign of a condition to demand to be accepted in various places - you find it with religions, etc. You have to know who you are and love being that, in the strata in which you fit..."

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By *ancs MinxWoman
over a year ago

Burnley

"cupids will not let transgender or transsexual in and it looks like the new club Amour Manchester is the same its sad

its not sad at all, each to their own views!!..enough clubs around to choose from

but you go to cupids and your Bi-curious"

the op has a choice of clubs like gatehouse, partners, Blackpool connections etc, i am glad cupids and amour have this stance, if your not welcome at a club then move on and find a club you are welcome at, just like you would with a any potential meet off here.........we don't all like the same things, learn to accept it, as to be honest all this moaning wont get you anywhere or make the clubs change their mind....thank god!!!!!;

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By *ittle_brat_evie!!Woman
over a year ago

evesham

"cupids will not let transgender or transsexual in and it looks like the new club Amour Manchester is the same its sad

its not sad at all, each to their own views!!..enough clubs around to choose from

but you go to cupids and your Bi-curious

Wow!! So would you say the same if a black person had started this thread

Legally clubs are not allowed to discriminate against people based on protected characteristics and the recent equality act has closed off some loop holes. I think there still is a loop hole around restricting entry to certain nights. I tried doing a bit of reading on it but got all confused lol

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By *ittle_brat_evie!!Woman
over a year ago

evesham

It can be a sign of a condition to demand to be accepted in various places - you find it with religions, etc. You have to know who you are and love being that, in the strata in which you fit..."

Yes! Know your place and don't dare ask for acceptance from all....maybe give your seat up if someone from a higher strata comes on the same bus as you, only use the transgender drinking fountains and look out for helpful signs in shops to see if you can shop there

Maybe clubs and shops should discriminate against the intolerant among us?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

check with your solicitor they would know if they didnt they could easily translate the gobbledygook into english for ya good luck xx

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I wouldn't want to spend my hard earned cash in a place I'm not welcome. Go were you are welcome, you'll enjoy yourself. If you still have your cock and you want to enter a ladies free or half price night the club might ask you to pay full as a man will you quietly pay or mourn "discrimination". Clubs always maximize their chances of making profit even if it means excluding others.

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By *eandmrsjones1Couple
over a year ago

Dublin

It is a club based on sex and sexuality therefor they have to discriminate, if they have couples night they are discriminating against those who are single, if they have gay/bi nights they are discriminating against those who are straight etc etc,

You are transgender, there is nothing wrong with that it is who you are, the fact that you are non op and that you asked means you already know you are not just female the same as any other woman.

Better to go to a club or that club when they allow TS/TV rather than try and force your way into a night that was not intended for you.

It is also interesting that your profile here is listed as a MF couple with you are the male half not a FF couple. Seems like you want to have it both ways so to speak

list yourself as a male when it suits but then take advantage of your female legal status when it suits.

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By *moSexGeeksCouple
over a year ago

Warwick

[Removed by poster at 04/06/14 11:26:16]

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"But business's can discriminate.. hense all boy or all girls schools. "

Actually they cant

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

More and more i am seeing this happen and its shocking in this day in age

find a club that will welcome u x

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By *eandmrsjones1Couple
over a year ago

Dublin

"But business's can discriminate.. hense all boy or all girls schools.

Actually they cant "

someone should tell the women only gyms then

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"But business's can discriminate.. hense all boy or all girls schools.

Actually they cant

someone should tell the women only gyms then

this is it!

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By *bi HaiveMan
Forum Mod
over a year ago

Cheeseville, Somerset

"It is a club based on sex and sexuality therefor they have to discriminate, if they have couples night they are discriminating against those who are single, if they have gay/bi nights they are discriminating against those who are straight etc etc,

You are transgender, there is nothing wrong with that it is who you are, the fact that you are non op and that you asked means you already know you are not just female the same as any other woman.

Better to go to a club or that club when they allow TS/TV rather than try and force your way into a night that was not intended for you.

It is also interesting that your profile here is listed as a MF couple with you are the male half not a FF couple. Seems like you want to have it both ways so to speak

list yourself as a male when it suits but then take advantage of your female legal status when it suits.

The exclusive nature of a lifestyle that should be inclusive never ceases to amaze me.

Yes - there are specific nights designated to certain groups - bi nights, TG/TV/TS nights, BDSM nights etc - but in general these occur on weekdays. Not exactly ideal for many in terms of work/travel/normal life commitments.

Yes - there are couples nights that exclude singles (sometimes just males, sometimes both) and nights open to all. Generally Fridays and Saturdays - much easier for all involved.

Yes a club has the legal right to determine who gets in on what night, how much they pay and set it's own rules. Doesn't make it morally right though, does it?

In a swingers club utopia there'd be equal rights for all in terms of access, cost and opportunity. Some clubs are a step closer to this than others.

The issue isn't always with the club owners - more often than not it's with the customers. Clubs are businesses. They need to satisfy their customer base to continue trading - and sadly this often means inequality in price and access.

If more customers were more tolerant of others choices and preferences (nobody is obligated to play, talk to or interact with anyone in a club after all!) then the time may come when there's no need for separate nights.

Couples, singles, TV/TG/TS's, BDSMers, voyeurs, exhibitionists, interracial sex fans and swingers of all denominations could happily inhabit the same building at the same time and interact in a respectful manner with those that meet their individual preferences - and ignore those that don't, without complaining that they are attending the wrong venue/night and impacting on their fun.

But I won't hold my breath.

In the meantime I guess the scene will stay as it is - as exclusive as it is inclusive. At least on normal club nights.

Oddly enough - I've never seen anyone complain about another gender/preference at any of the socials at clubs I've been to. And they've been attended by pretty much every segment of the swinging community there is! But then again - they're also good business for the clubs hosting them. Maybe that's why?

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By *iccardaTV/TS
over a year ago

Wallasey

Private members clubs do have exemption from equality legislation - hence men only golf clubs etc and i have to say single guys are discriminated against

i know people who get very worked up about age restricted events like under 35s

however swinging clubs ultimately have to make money and being inclusive surly is the best way to go about that because i can't imagine anyone likes being told they aren't welcome what ever the reason be they trans, bi, gay, single, not single, male, female, black, white, too old, too fat, too smelly, too ugly

So i have to say leave it, find somewhere you are welcome and remember karma's a bitch

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