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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago

Under the current legislation under the equality act 2010 it is impossible for a club to discriminate, or refuse entry on the grounds of race, gender, personal circumstance etc.

I have kindly attached a link to help you.

If you refuse to accept this then soon you will find yourself in a court by a person whom you have refused entry through discrimination, a person is in full right to pursue a litigation toward a club owner on the grounds of discrimination, therefore certain clubs have a legal responsibility to change their policies or face legal action.

This is a warning for you, I do not wish to see any clubs disappear for this reason!

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2010/15/contents

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

It is an interesting view

However, most of the clubs are run as "Private Members Clubs" and as such have the right to refuse admission without needing to give any specific reason.

In the context of swinging, tolerance is needed across the piece, but in ultimate terms the right needs to be kept with the owners to allow in only those people who it believes will ft in with the majority of the membership.

Other views welcomed, of course

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Well we only go on couples nights so if this changed we would stop going to clubs

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Since my car insurance went up!! This has come up time and time again.

Men complaining they pay more etc.

It isn't going to affect the swinging clubs. There are a number of ways round it and worst case they simply have to regularly change their 'discount prices' as an eg, charge single women a tenner to get in, however give them half that back in bar drink value, or email out half off vouchers etc. They can offer discounts to under represented groups etc etc etc

The management has the right to decline entry to anyone, or revoke membership.

I do wish people would stop trying to sensationalise this nonsense

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By *ittle_brat_evie!!Woman
over a year ago

evesham

equlity laws have been around for years, why do you think no one has bought this up already?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Either folk want equality or the do not.

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By *andcCouple
over a year ago

London and Cheshire

looking at:

http://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/85018/private-clubs.pdf

It would appear that clubs charging different prices may be in trouble:-

" A club

cannot refuse membership, or grant membership

on less favourable terms (such as by applying

different conditions or fees) because the person

has a protected characteristic – disability, gender

reassignment, pregnancy and maternity, race, religion

or belief, sex or sexual orientation."

the couples only nights may be OK though, as they are letting in men and women, just not single men or women! But maybe if you turn up as a couple either both male or both female this could cause trouble under the sexual orientation!!!

Boy what a minefield, but again who will take them to court anyway?

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago

It affects all business whether private or not, yes it is ok to have specialised nights, but you cannot dictate that a person can never go to a certain place due to discriminatory views, I do not wish to see clubs suffer because of discrimination, there are many ways around the ideals of the equality act 2010, I will always offer to help with ideas such as maybe a club should once a month could hold a tgirls and admirers night or a BBC night, whatever it is that that club should hold strong views of disallowing certain types etc, as I have said I would rather help, than see closure due to discriminatory views, membership only clubs sorry but you still fall under the law and that is a fact. If you smoke in a private membership club you can still be prosecuted as a club recently found out, they received a £2500 fine, so I'm afraid the law is the law. We do not have much say, but persons like myself can still find loop holes, specialist theme nights are a way forward even if they do not see it that way x

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By *pecifically1Woman
over a year ago

Hull

Being thick and never having been to a club - who do they discriminate against?

who don't they allow in?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

May one ask which establishment refused you admission?

You could also consider the fact that any club (private or members) or licensed premises has the legal right to refuse admission to anyone with no reason given. There are also civil rights to refuse admission to other buildings with no reason given. So if a club simply refuses you entry, there is no court in the land that would dispute their right to do so UNLESS they give a reason that contravenes some other law.

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago

I agree with all along some level. All I am saying is I would sooner protect a club from claims than see them disappear on the basis that somebody has sought litigation and won on the basis of discrimination, this has been after research of a normal social club has been sued on the basis that they turned the person away because it would have meant moving chairs about which would have caused distraction to the entertainer, incidentally this was a private members club, please don't shoot the person who is offering help xx

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


"May one ask which establishment refused you admission?

You could also consider the fact that any club (private or members) or licensed premises has the legal right to refuse admission to anyone with no reason given. There are also civil rights to refuse admission to other buildings with no reason given. So if a club simply refuses you entry, there is no court in the land that would dispute their right to do so UNLESS they give a reason that contravenes some other law."

It was done recently to a person who sought my help, she is a post-op transsexual who was told by the club that no transsexuals were allowed, unfortunately I cannot name the place for legal reasons

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Have to say i think its quite ironic that you are posting this considering the wording on your profile which is clearly discriminitive against other members on fab and also having a pop at fab too ??

Having been to plenty of clubs we have seen a massive cross section of swingers all og whom mingle and enjoy each others company. We have never seen any discriminitive behaviour of any shape , fashion or type. I also think your being a little naive thinking that even if it actually got to court ( massive legal costs for both parties ) that a club would " disappear " or be shut down if the aggrieved won.

Swinging clubs do a huge and for the most excellent job of making sure that every taste , fetish, gender , sexuality is catered for.

The main thing to remember is any licensed premises can refuse entry point blank they do not have to give a reason.

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


"Have to say i think its quite ironic that you are posting this considering the wording on your profile which is clearly discriminitive against other members on fab and also having a pop at fab too ??

Having been to plenty of clubs we have seen a massive cross section of swingers all og whom mingle and enjoy each others company. We have never seen any discriminitive behaviour of any shape , fashion or type. I also think your being a little naive thinking that even if it actually got to court ( massive legal costs for both parties ) that a club would " disappear " or be shut down if the aggrieved won.

Swinging clubs do a huge and for the most excellent job of making sure that every taste , fetish, gender , sexuality is catered for.

The main thing to remember is any licensed premises can refuse entry point blank they do not have to give a reason. "

It is not aimed at all swinging clubs, it is aimed at the minority of which discriminate and I see no part of my profile text that is discriminatory

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By *kmale421Man
over a year ago

wirral

I find myself in agreement with SamandJamie in that I have been to many of the clubs in the North West of England and some in the Midlands too and so far haven't seen any discrimination against any gender, sex or race. Having said that I don't sit round reception waiting to see what happens.

If it was one incidence at one club with the OP's friend, I doubt it would stand up in court anyway but if it's a regular event at a particular club, maybe this forum thread would have been better directed directly at the club concerned.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I think its mainly down to the entry charges....in most clubs single females are free and single males are charged.

In my mind a female is a person with a pussy and a male has the cock, I know that might sound simple, but if you have a cock(even if you don't want to use it) you are still anatomically a male.

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By *wliverpoolcoupleCouple
over a year ago

liverpool


"Under the current legislation under the equality act 2010 it is impossible for a club to discriminate, or refuse entry on the grounds of race, gender, personal circumstance etc.

I have kindly attached a link to help you.

If you refuse to accept this then soon you will find yourself in a court by a person whom you have refused entry through discrimination, a person is in full right to pursue a litigation toward a club owner on the grounds of discrimination, therefore certain clubs have a legal responsibility to change their policies or face legal action.

This is a warning for you, I do not wish to see any clubs disappear for this reason!

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2010/15/contents"
I have never seen any discrimination within clubs, and most clubs within the the North West do have special evenings dedicated to specific groups, but I fully support any club not allowing TV’s on a normal swinging night, when we go to a swinging club on one of these nights we find it uncomfortable to have men wandering around in drag and even worse we have seen them going in the ladies toilet which is wrong.

Any such legal action would be thrown out of court because a private members club can dictate who they let in when it regards gender, just look at some of the all male private clubs in westminister, I would think the only one from your list they could be taken to court under would be the race card.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

[Removed by poster at 09/05/13 18:17:46]

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Oppps posted last message in wrong thread.., Doh !!!!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

[Removed by poster at 09/05/13 18:26:40]

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By *abioMan
over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead


"Under the current legislation under the equality act 2010 it is impossible for a club to discriminate, or refuse entry on the grounds of race, gender, personal circumstance etc.

I have kindly attached a link to help you.

If you refuse to accept this then soon you will find yourself in a court by a person whom you have refused entry through discrimination, a person is in full right to pursue a litigation toward a club owner on the grounds of discrimination, therefore certain clubs have a legal responsibility to change their policies or face legal action.

This is a warning for you, I do not wish to see any clubs disappear for this reason!

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2010/15/contents"

ahem... i don't think you have read the entire legistlation...

nice try.... but WRONG!!!!!!!

This comes up all the time...

the protected status's in the act are....

disability, gender realignment, Pregnancy and Maternity, race, religion, Sex and Sexual Orientation.....

doesn't say anything about marital status though..... therefore if you go as a "couple" and consider yourself to be a "couple", then that isn't covered....

so they can charge couples differently then they can singles......

.

and from what I read, Technically you can't differently charge single guys and single fems......IF the numbers going were the same if the price were the same..

HOWEVER, under the act you are Allowed to positively discriminate for groups of people that are "under represented" as long as you can show that such measures are useful for redress the balances....

so all they would have to do is raise single women prices for a few weeks.... when they get no single women going... drop back down the price!

Couples (MM),Couples (MF) and Couples (FF)

However in Clubs CAN still have different rules attached to the different types (so before two single guys decide to test the "couple" thing.... I wouldn't be surprised if they put in a "stay together play together" clause to make people think twice about it......)

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By *artsnikCouple
over a year ago

wortley


"Under the current legislation under the equality act 2010 it is impossible for a club to discriminate, or refuse entry on the grounds of race, gender, personal circumstance etc.

I have kindly attached a link to help you.

If you refuse to accept this then soon you will find yourself in a court by a person whom you have refused entry through discrimination, a person is in full right to pursue a litigation toward a club owner on the grounds of discrimination, therefore certain clubs have a legal responsibility to change their policies or face legal action.

This is a warning for you, I do not wish to see any clubs disappear for this reason!

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2010/15/contents

ahem... i don't think you have read the entire legistlation...

nice try.... but WRONG!!!!!!!

This comes up all the time...

the protected status's in the act are....

disability, gender realignment, Pregnancy and Maternity, race, religion, Sex and Sexual Orientation.....

doesn't say anything about marital status though..... therefore if you go as a "couple" and consider yourself to be a "couple", then that isn't covered....

so they can charge couples differently then they can singles......

.

and from what I read, Technically you can't differently charge single guys and single fems......IF the numbers going were the same if the price were the same..

HOWEVER, under the act you are Allowed to positively discriminate for groups of people that are "under represented" as long as you can show that such measures are useful for redress the balances....

so all they would have to do is raise single women prices for a few weeks.... when they get no single women going... drop back down the price!

Couples (MM),Couples (MF) and Couples (FF)

However in Clubs CAN still have different rules attached to the different types (so before two single guys decide to test the "couple" thing.... I wouldn't be surprised if they put in a "stay together play together" clause to make people think twice about it......)"

Was just about to write the same Myself I work as a licencing consultant don't forget normal places have ladies nights and so on

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By *wliverpoolcoupleCouple
over a year ago

liverpool


"May one ask which establishment refused you admission?

You could also consider the fact that any club (private or members) or licensed premises has the legal right to refuse admission to anyone with no reason given. There are also civil rights to refuse admission to other buildings with no reason given. So if a club simply refuses you entry, there is no court in the land that would dispute their right to do so UNLESS they give a reason that contravenes some other law.

It was done recently to a person who sought my help, she is a post-op transsexual who was told by the club that no transsexuals were allowed, unfortunately I cannot name the place for legal reasons"

But you have already named the club under the review section, did you not put up an avoid and claimed this club was anti-homosexual

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

A club owner should be able to run his or her club just has he or she pleases, not be told who they can and cant let in, what they can and cant charge, etc.. Things like this make me boil. Rant over, have a nice day everyone..

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By *aula.ceciliaWoman
over a year ago

Cheltenham

May I add a note to this,, as a Post Operative Male to female transsexual I have had to run the gauntlet of a certain amount of discrimination, Those days should be over as gender re-assignment is a protected characteristic under the 2010 act. I go to clubs on ordinary nights, my profile is an open book through my own choice, I use the same facilities and, most of the time, I am unremarked and usually participate as fully as I would wish. So far so good. There is, however, the question of the full time pre-op TS in transition, she will have a passport and drivers license with her female name and gender markers, NHS, NI, Bank and all other ID will yield a fully female persona. She is protected and she cannot be refused admission on grounds of being a genetic male. Another contributor has raised the question of same sex couples on couples nights,, again they are protected, though would they really want to go to an overtly hetero or even Bi event?. What it really comes down to is treating people the way you would wish to be treated. No more, no less, and I am delighted to say that I have been accepted as a single female in the swing scene almost without exception. Let us not let misinterpretation of some very good law to alter the tolerance our community is known for?

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By *rummiePartyManMan
over a year ago

birmingham


"...All I am saying is I would sooner protect a club from claims than see them disappear on the basis that somebody has sought litigation and won on the basis of discrimination..."

I love that turn of phrase. You've used it at least twice already. Have you been reading the "Al Capone Guide to Good Protection Racketeering"?

Is this a veiled threat to club owners, "charge me less or I'll take you to court"?

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By *arambarMan
over a year ago

swindon


"Let us not let misinterpretation of some very good law to alter the tolerance our community is known for?"

Well said, that woman.

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By *arambarMan
over a year ago

swindon


"...All I am saying is I would sooner protect a club from claims than see them disappear on the basis that somebody has sought litigation and won on the basis of discrimination...

I love that turn of phrase. You've used it at least twice already. Have you been reading the "Al Capone Guide to Good Protection Racketeering"?

Is this a veiled threat to club owners, "charge me less or I'll take you to court"?"

I didn't see anything in the OP nor in subsequent posts about prices - rather that their friend had been refused entry based on her gender realignment.

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By *arambarMan
over a year ago

swindon


"A club owner should be able to run his or her club just has he or she pleases, not be told who they can and cant let in, what they can and cant charge, etc.. Things like this make me boil. Rant over, have a nice day everyone.. "

I believe Susanne Wilkinson, the owner of a B&B in Berkshire, held similar thoughts.

Incidentally, I read an article earlier today about the Isle of Man's lack of an Equality Act. This was in relation to a gay couple who were refused rental accommodation because they are gay. Seems shocking that we're still discriminating against certain demographics in this day and age.

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By *wliverpoolcoupleCouple
over a year ago

liverpool


"...All I am saying is I would sooner protect a club from claims than see them disappear on the basis that somebody has sought litigation and won on the basis of discrimination...

I love that turn of phrase. You've used it at least twice already. Have you been reading the "Al Capone Guide to Good Protection Racketeering"?

Is this a veiled threat to club owners, "charge me less or I'll take you to court"?

I didn't see anything in the OP nor in subsequent posts about prices - rather that their friend had been refused entry based on her gender realignment."
Correct, the original post was about somebody who contacted her ( amazing when you see posts like this it’s always somebody else and not the OP it happened to) about being refused entry on a normal swinging night, my views on this are basically if you are a TV ( A BLOKE IN DRAG, NO MATTER WHAT THE MENTALITY OF THE TV MIGHT BE )Then you should not be allowed into a swinging club on a normal swinging night, there are enough clubs around offering special night’s for these people, so why try and force a club to let you in ( by quoting various gov legislation ) but at the end of the day it should be up to the club and the membership of that club who they wish to allow in.

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By *wliverpoolcoupleCouple
over a year ago

liverpool


"...All I am saying is I would sooner protect a club from claims than see them disappear on the basis that somebody has sought litigation and won on the basis of discrimination...

I love that turn of phrase. You've used it at least twice already. Have you been reading the "Al Capone Guide to Good Protection Racketeering"?

Is this a veiled threat to club owners, "charge me less or I'll take you to court"?"

It's more of a veiled threat to club owners, "Let TV's in on a normal swinging night or I'll take you to court"?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"A club owner should be able to run his or her club just has he or she pleases, not be told who they can and cant let in, what they can and cant charge, etc.. Things like this make me boil. Rant over, have a nice day everyone.. "

Well said. My thoughts exactly. This world is going mad with legislation

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Is it discrimination if you habitually refuse to grant entry to anyone who quotes government legislation?

entertainment venue owners have a difficult job of deciding on the door who will add value to the party and who will disrupt it. This does not only apply to swinging clubs, IF they let in people who will upset the balance then the night is a bust, bad reviews can kill the club much quicker than any law or threat of a court appearance.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"...All I am saying is I would sooner protect a club from claims than see them disappear on the basis that somebody has sought litigation and won on the basis of discrimination...

I love that turn of phrase. You've used it at least twice already. Have you been reading the "Al Capone Guide to Good Protection Racketeering"?

Is this a veiled threat to club owners, "charge me less or I'll take you to court"?

I didn't see anything in the OP nor in subsequent posts about prices - rather that their friend had been refused entry based on her gender realignment.Correct, the original post was about somebody who contacted her ( amazing when you see posts like this it’s always somebody else and not the OP it happened to) about being refused entry on a normal swinging night, my views on this are basically if you are a TV ( A BLOKE IN DRAG, NO MATTER WHAT THE MENTALITY OF THE TV MIGHT BE )Then you should not be allowed into a swinging club on a normal swinging night, there are enough clubs around offering special night’s for these people, so why try and force a club to let you in ( by quoting various gov legislation ) but at the end of the day it should be up to the club and the membership of that club who they wish to allow in. "

Setting the whole legislation thing aside for a moment, why should TVs/TS Transgender people NOT be allowed in a swinging club on "normal" nights???????

Is it because they might like other mens cock's? If so you may as well bar me, I too am partial to a penis sometimes with like minded couples, however I play completely straight too, it doesnt mean I want to jump on board and bum other men violently.

"These people" as you put it are people too, single men get in (exc couples nights) so why not "men in drag"?

Tolerant, openminded and non-judgemental? Not in my opinion reading some comments on here.

I agree it should be up to the clubs who they let in 100% but from reading a lot of your posts it would seem the real issue is you don't want "these people" near you as you dont like it. IMHO.

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By *ausage and sizzleCouple
over a year ago

Barnstaple

I can't see anyone (apart from the likes of Peter Tatchell) suing and making their lifestyle hobby public knowledge.

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By *ittle_brat_evie!!Woman
over a year ago

evesham


"...All I am saying is I would sooner protect a club from claims than see them disappear on the basis that somebody has sought litigation and won on the basis of discrimination...

I love that turn of phrase. You've used it at least twice already. Have you been reading the "Al Capone Guide to Good Protection Racketeering"?

Is this a veiled threat to club owners, "charge me less or I'll take you to court"?

I didn't see anything in the OP nor in subsequent posts about prices - rather that their friend had been refused entry based on her gender realignment.Correct, the original post was about somebody who contacted her ( amazing when you see posts like this it’s always somebody else and not the OP it happened to) about being refused entry on a normal swinging night, my views on this are basically if you are a TV ( A BLOKE IN DRAG, NO MATTER WHAT THE MENTALITY OF THE TV MIGHT BE )Then you should not be allowed into a swinging club on a normal swinging night, there are enough clubs around offering special night’s for these people, so why try and force a club to let you in ( by quoting various gov legislation ) but at the end of the day it should be up to the club and the membership of that club who they wish to allow in. "

So you wouldn't use this piece if government legislation if a club refused you entry on the grounds of race provided they had dedicates coffee and cream nights or Bmfc nights then?

I get the arguement here in that there should be equality etc however I also see that clubs have to cater for the majority of their members. Clubs will get Round the issue of equality by saying that TV's are welcome on certain bi/TV friendly nights. Trans bisexuals are another matter because, unless you go round telling everyone you meet you hardtop be a different sex,how will they know you are a trans sexual?

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By *ausage and sizzleCouple
over a year ago

Barnstaple

However I do think it's unfair that sgl fems get in free and single blokes have to pay more and such an incredibly disproportionate amount.

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By *atchMan
over a year ago

reigate

A club is allowed to have a dress code to protect their ambiance in the same way a pub can put up a shirts must be worn or a nightclub can say no jeans or trainers. Next people will be suing because its discrimination if they are wearing jeans.

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By *ittle_brat_evie!!Woman
over a year ago

evesham


"A club is allowed to have a dress code to protect their ambiance in the same way a pub can put up a shirts must be worn or a nightclub can say no jeans or trainers. Next people will be suing because its discrimination if they are wearing jeans. "

whats dress code got to do with anything?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Will be interesting to see if the o p carries threat out as because my understanding of the discrimination act is that yes clubs can hold specials nights but they cannot discriminate as such should for example a transexual legally classed as male or female cannot be refused entry on them grounds at anytime its really so simple.

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By *riendly foeWoman
over a year ago

In a crisp poke on the A814

Dont know any club that refuses anyone based on sexuality.....

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By *wliverpoolcoupleCouple
over a year ago

liverpool


"...All I am saying is I would sooner protect a club from claims than see them disappear on the basis that somebody has sought litigation and won on the basis of discrimination...

I love that turn of phrase. You've used it at least twice already. Have you been reading the "Al Capone Guide to Good Protection Racketeering"?

Is this a veiled threat to club owners, "charge me less or I'll take you to court"?

I didn't see anything in the OP nor in subsequent posts about prices - rather that their friend had been refused entry based on her gender realignment.Correct, the original post was about somebody who contacted her ( amazing when you see posts like this it’s always somebody else and not the OP it happened to) about being refused entry on a normal swinging night, my views on this are basically if you are a TV ( A BLOKE IN DRAG, NO MATTER WHAT THE MENTALITY OF THE TV MIGHT BE )Then you should not be allowed into a swinging club on a normal swinging night, there are enough clubs around offering special night’s for these people, so why try and force a club to let you in ( by quoting various gov legislation ) but at the end of the day it should be up to the club and the membership of that club who they wish to allow in.

Setting the whole legislation thing aside for a moment, why should TVs/TS Transgender people NOT be allowed in a swinging club on "normal" nights???????

Is it because they might like other mens cock's? If so you may as well bar me, I too am partial to a penis sometimes with like minded couples, however I play completely straight too, it doesnt mean I want to jump on board and bum other men violently.

"These people" as you put it are people too, single men get in (exc couples nights) so why not "men in drag"?

Tolerant, openminded and non-judgemental? Not in my opinion reading some comments on here.

I agree it should be up to the clubs who they let in 100% but from reading a lot of your posts it would seem the real issue is you don't want "these people" near you as you dont like it. IMHO."
Correct, I don't wish "these people" near me, that's my preference and if I visited a club that allowed TV's in on normal nites I would not visit that club again

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"However I do think it's unfair that sgl fems get in free and single blokes have to pay more and such an incredibly disproportionate amount."

I go to clubs and am a single female.

I pay my entry, membership and bar bill.

Yes it may be cheaper than a single males but not every club is free to single women. If you add on, what I pay for my babysitter, then single people without children pay less than me

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By *ittle_brat_evie!!Woman
over a year ago

evesham


"...All I am saying is I would sooner protect a club from claims than see them disappear on the basis that somebody has sought litigation and won on the basis of discrimination...

I love that turn of phrase. You've used it at least twice already. Have you been reading the "Al Capone Guide to Good Protection Racketeering"?

Is this a veiled threat to club owners, "charge me less or I'll take you to court"?

I didn't see anything in the OP nor in subsequent posts about prices - rather that their friend had been refused entry based on her gender realignment.Correct, the original post was about somebody who contacted her ( amazing when you see posts like this it’s always somebody else and not the OP it happened to) about being refused entry on a normal swinging night, my views on this are basically if you are a TV ( A BLOKE IN DRAG, NO MATTER WHAT THE MENTALITY OF THE TV MIGHT BE )Then you should not be allowed into a swinging club on a normal swinging night, there are enough clubs around offering special night’s for these people, so why try and force a club to let you in ( by quoting various gov legislation ) but at the end of the day it should be up to the club and the membership of that club who they wish to allow in.

Setting the whole legislation thing aside for a moment, why should TVs/TS Transgender people NOT be allowed in a swinging club on "normal" nights???????

Is it because they might like other mens cock's? If so you may as well bar me, I too am partial to a penis sometimes with like minded couples, however I play completely straight too, it doesnt mean I want to jump on board and bum other men violently.

"These people" as you put it are people too, single men get in (exc couples nights) so why not "men in drag"?

Tolerant, openminded and non-judgemental? Not in my opinion reading some comments on here.

I agree it should be up to the clubs who they let in 100% but from reading a lot of your posts it would seem the real issue is you don't want "these people" near you as you dont like it. IMHO.Correct, I don't wish "these people" near me, that's my preference and if I visited a club that allowed TV's in on normal nites I would not visit that club again "

so you would stop dong something you enjoy because of a small minority of people? says more about you than anyone else i guess

and i noticed you ignored my question lol

 (thread closed by moderator)

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"...All I am saying is I would sooner protect a club from claims than see them disappear on the basis that somebody has sought litigation and won on the basis of discrimination...

I love that turn of phrase. You've used it at least twice already. Have you been reading the "Al Capone Guide to Good Protection Racketeering"?

Is this a veiled threat to club owners, "charge me less or I'll take you to court"?

I didn't see anything in the OP nor in subsequent posts about prices - rather that their friend had been refused entry based on her gender realignment.Correct, the original post was about somebody who contacted her ( amazing when you see posts like this it’s always somebody else and not the OP it happened to) about being refused entry on a normal swinging night, my views on this are basically if you are a TV ( A BLOKE IN DRAG, NO MATTER WHAT THE MENTALITY OF THE TV MIGHT BE )Then you should not be allowed into a swinging club on a normal swinging night, there are enough clubs around offering special night’s for these people, so why try and force a club to let you in ( by quoting various gov legislation ) but at the end of the day it should be up to the club and the membership of that club who they wish to allow in.

Setting the whole legislation thing aside for a moment, why should TVs/TS Transgender people NOT be allowed in a swinging club on "normal" nights???????

Is it because they might like other mens cock's? If so you may as well bar me, I too am partial to a penis sometimes with like minded couples, however I play completely straight too, it doesnt mean I want to jump on board and bum other men violently.

"These people" as you put it are people too, single men get in (exc couples nights) so why not "men in drag"?

Tolerant, openminded and non-judgemental? Not in my opinion reading some comments on here.

I agree it should be up to the clubs who they let in 100% but from reading a lot of your posts it would seem the real issue is you don't want "these people" near you as you dont like it. IMHO.Correct, I don't wish "these people" near me, that's my preference and if I visited a club that allowed TV's in on normal nites I would not visit that club again "

to be blunt, I couldnt see that being a loss, your lack of acceptance and animosity towards people that may not even be interested in you shows you as very small minded and not the sort of people we would entertain - however we would never exclude you as "those people" we dont personally like, we would ignore or play elsewhere its that simple.

 (thread closed by moderator)

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By *wliverpoolcoupleCouple
over a year ago

liverpool


"...All I am saying is I would sooner protect a club from claims than see them disappear on the basis that somebody has sought litigation and won on the basis of discrimination...

I love that turn of phrase. You've used it at least twice already. Have you been reading the "Al Capone Guide to Good Protection Racketeering"?

Is this a veiled threat to club owners, "charge me less or I'll take you to court"?

I didn't see anything in the OP nor in subsequent posts about prices - rather that their friend had been refused entry based on her gender realignment.Correct, the original post was about somebody who contacted her ( amazing when you see posts like this it’s always somebody else and not the OP it happened to) about being refused entry on a normal swinging night, my views on this are basically if you are a TV ( A BLOKE IN DRAG, NO MATTER WHAT THE MENTALITY OF THE TV MIGHT BE )Then you should not be allowed into a swinging club on a normal swinging night, there are enough clubs around offering special night’s for these people, so why try and force a club to let you in ( by quoting various gov legislation ) but at the end of the day it should be up to the club and the membership of that club who they wish to allow in.

Setting the whole legislation thing aside for a moment, why should TVs/TS Transgender people NOT be allowed in a swinging club on "normal" nights???????

Is it because they might like other mens cock's? If so you may as well bar me, I too am partial to a penis sometimes with like minded couples, however I play completely straight too, it doesnt mean I want to jump on board and bum other men violently.

"These people" as you put it are people too, single men get in (exc couples nights) so why not "men in drag"?

Tolerant, openminded and non-judgemental? Not in my opinion reading some comments on here.

I agree it should be up to the clubs who they let in 100% but from reading a lot of your posts it would seem the real issue is you don't want "these people" near you as you dont like it. IMHO.Correct, I don't wish "these people" near me, that's my preference and if I visited a club that allowed TV's in on normal nites I would not visit that club again

to be blunt, I couldnt see that being a loss, your lack of acceptance and animosity towards people that may not even be interested in you shows you as very small minded and not the sort of people we would entertain - however we would never exclude you as "those people" we dont personally like, we would ignore or play elsewhere its that simple."
And it's the last part of your intelligent statement that the OP cannot grasp, if a certain club has decided they do not wish TV's ( those people )on a normal night then instead of threatening that club with legislation and courts then why can he not just "ignore or play elsewhere its that simple" there are plenty of clubs that cater for "those people"

 (thread closed by moderator)

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"...All I am saying is I would sooner protect a club from claims than see them disappear on the basis that somebody has sought litigation and won on the basis of discrimination...

I love that turn of phrase. You've used it at least twice already. Have you been reading the "Al Capone Guide to Good Protection Racketeering"?

Is this a veiled threat to club owners, "charge me less or I'll take you to court"?

I didn't see anything in the OP nor in subsequent posts about prices - rather that their friend had been refused entry based on her gender realignment.Correct, the original post was about somebody who contacted her ( amazing when you see posts like this it’s always somebody else and not the OP it happened to) about being refused entry on a normal swinging night, my views on this are basically if you are a TV ( A BLOKE IN DRAG, NO MATTER WHAT THE MENTALITY OF THE TV MIGHT BE )Then you should not be allowed into a swinging club on a normal swinging night, there are enough clubs around offering special night’s for these people, so why try and force a club to let you in ( by quoting various gov legislation ) but at the end of the day it should be up to the club and the membership of that club who they wish to allow in.

Setting the whole legislation thing aside for a moment, why should TVs/TS Transgender people NOT be allowed in a swinging club on "normal" nights???????

Is it because they might like other mens cock's? If so you may as well bar me, I too am partial to a penis sometimes with like minded couples, however I play completely straight too, it doesnt mean I want to jump on board and bum other men violently.

"These people" as you put it are people too, single men get in (exc couples nights) so why not "men in drag"?

Tolerant, openminded and non-judgemental? Not in my opinion reading some comments on here.

I agree it should be up to the clubs who they let in 100% but from reading a lot of your posts it would seem the real issue is you don't want "these people" near you as you dont like it. IMHO.Correct, I don't wish "these people" near me, that's my preference and if I visited a club that allowed TV's in on normal nites I would not visit that club again

to be blunt, I couldnt see that being a loss, your lack of acceptance and animosity towards people that may not even be interested in you shows you as very small minded and not the sort of people we would entertain - however we would never exclude you as "those people" we dont personally like, we would ignore or play elsewhere its that simple.And it's the last part of your intelligent statement that the OP cannot grasp, if a certain club has decided they do not wish TV's ( those people )on a normal night then instead of threatening that club with legislation and courts then why can he not just "ignore or play elsewhere its that simple" there are plenty of clubs that cater for "those people" "

as I said earlier "taking the legalities " thing aside.........that is not what I was pointing out. It was more the lack of inclusion for certain people due to their personal tastes, from people that many in vanilla society would see as deviant/perverted (etc etc etc). Just dont understand the small mindedness to be honest. Its like guys that think all Gay man want them and will have their wicked way!

As I have heard somebody say in the past, those that deny it most strenuously are more likely to be. Obviously thats tongue in cheek but the serious point is, why cant we let EVERYONE play the way THEY wish rather than try to force beliefs upon them. Who would it hurt seeing a TV playing in a club?

 (thread closed by moderator)

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"...All I am saying is I would sooner protect a club from claims than see them disappear on the basis that somebody has sought litigation and won on the basis of discrimination...

I love that turn of phrase. You've used it at least twice already. Have you been reading the "Al Capone Guide to Good Protection Racketeering"?

Is this a veiled threat to club owners, "charge me less or I'll take you to court"?

I didn't see anything in the OP nor in subsequent posts about prices - rather that their friend had been refused entry based on her gender realignment.Correct, the original post was about somebody who contacted her ( amazing when you see posts like this it’s always somebody else and not the OP it happened to) about being refused entry on a normal swinging night, my views on this are basically if you are a TV ( A BLOKE IN DRAG, NO MATTER WHAT THE MENTALITY OF THE TV MIGHT BE )Then you should not be allowed into a swinging club on a normal swinging night, there are enough clubs around offering special night’s for these people, so why try and force a club to let you in ( by quoting various gov legislation ) but at the end of the day it should be up to the club and the membership of that club who they wish to allow in.

Setting the whole legislation thing aside for a moment, why should TVs/TS Transgender people NOT be allowed in a swinging club on "normal" nights???????

Is it because they might like other mens cock's? If so you may as well bar me, I too am partial to a penis sometimes with like minded couples, however I play completely straight too, it doesnt mean I want to jump on board and bum other men violently.

"These people" as you put it are people too, single men get in (exc couples nights) so why not "men in drag"?

Tolerant, openminded and non-judgemental? Not in my opinion reading some comments on here.

I agree it should be up to the clubs who they let in 100% but from reading a lot of your posts it would seem the real issue is you don't want "these people" near you as you dont like it. IMHO.Correct, I don't wish "these people" near me, that's my preference and if I visited a club that allowed TV's in on normal nites I would not visit that club again

to be blunt, I couldnt see that being a loss, your lack of acceptance and animosity towards people that may not even be interested in you shows you as very small minded and not the sort of people we would entertain - however we would never exclude you as "those people" we dont personally like, we would ignore or play elsewhere its that simple.And it's the last part of your intelligent statement that the OP cannot grasp, if a certain club has decided they do not wish TV's ( those people )on a normal night then instead of threatening that club with legislation and courts then why can he not just "ignore or play elsewhere its that simple" there are plenty of clubs that cater for "those people"

as I said earlier "taking the legalities " thing aside.........that is not what I was pointing out. It was more the lack of inclusion for certain people due to their personal tastes, from people that many in vanilla society would see as deviant/perverted (etc etc etc). Just dont understand the small mindedness to be honest. Its like guys that think all Gay man want them and will have their wicked way!

As I have heard somebody say in the past, those that deny it most strenuously are more likely to be. Obviously thats tongue in cheek but the serious point is, why cant we let EVERYONE play the way THEY wish rather than try to force beliefs upon them. Who would it hurt seeing a TV playing in a club? "

and when I said people can play elsewhere if they dont want to see something I meant within the club, lets face it there are private rooms, couples only rooms, different play rooms!

 (thread closed by moderator)

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By *wliverpoolcoupleCouple
over a year ago

liverpool


"...All I am saying is I would sooner protect a club from claims than see them disappear on the basis that somebody has sought litigation and won on the basis of discrimination...

I love that turn of phrase. You've used it at least twice already. Have you been reading the "Al Capone Guide to Good Protection Racketeering"?

Is this a veiled threat to club owners, "charge me less or I'll take you to court"?

I didn't see anything in the OP nor in subsequent posts about prices - rather that their friend had been refused entry based on her gender realignment.Correct, the original post was about somebody who contacted her ( amazing when you see posts like this it’s always somebody else and not the OP it happened to) about being refused entry on a normal swinging night, my views on this are basically if you are a TV ( A BLOKE IN DRAG, NO MATTER WHAT THE MENTALITY OF THE TV MIGHT BE )Then you should not be allowed into a swinging club on a normal swinging night, there are enough clubs around offering special night’s for these people, so why try and force a club to let you in ( by quoting various gov legislation ) but at the end of the day it should be up to the club and the membership of that club who they wish to allow in.

Setting the whole legislation thing aside for a moment, why should TVs/TS Transgender people NOT be allowed in a swinging club on "normal" nights???????

Is it because they might like other mens cock's? If so you may as well bar me, I too am partial to a penis sometimes with like minded couples, however I play completely straight too, it doesnt mean I want to jump on board and bum other men violently.

"These people" as you put it are people too, single men get in (exc couples nights) so why not "men in drag"?

Tolerant, openminded and non-judgemental? Not in my opinion reading some comments on here.

I agree it should be up to the clubs who they let in 100% but from reading a lot of your posts it would seem the real issue is you don't want "these people" near you as you dont like it. IMHO.Correct, I don't wish "these people" near me, that's my preference and if I visited a club that allowed TV's in on normal nites I would not visit that club again

to be blunt, I couldnt see that being a loss, your lack of acceptance and animosity towards people that may not even be interested in you shows you as very small minded and not the sort of people we would entertain - however we would never exclude you as "those people" we dont personally like, we would ignore or play elsewhere its that simple.And it's the last part of your intelligent statement that the OP cannot grasp, if a certain club has decided they do not wish TV's ( those people )on a normal night then instead of threatening that club with legislation and courts then why can he not just "ignore or play elsewhere its that simple" there are plenty of clubs that cater for "those people"

as I said earlier "taking the legalities " thing aside.........that is not what I was pointing out. It was more the lack of inclusion for certain people due to their personal tastes, from people that many in vanilla society would see as deviant/perverted (etc etc etc). Just dont understand the small mindedness to be honest. Its like guys that think all Gay man want them and will have their wicked way!

As I have heard somebody say in the past, those that deny it most strenuously are more likely to be. Obviously thats tongue in cheek but the serious point is, why cant we let EVERYONE play the way THEY wish rather than try to force beliefs upon them. Who would it hurt seeing a TV playing in a club?

and when I said people can play elsewhere if they dont want to see something I meant within the club, lets face it there are private rooms, couples only rooms, different play rooms! "

Oh right....can I take back the bit where I said your post was intelligent then.....

Anyway the OP has been online quite a bit the last few day's and even he cannot be bothered about posting on his own thread which shows how much concern he really has, so I shall not be wasting my time anymore here....off to search for more "Those People" threads...

 (thread closed by moderator)

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Has this thread run out of steam by now?

I think it has................

 (thread closed by moderator)

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By *wliverpoolcoupleCouple
over a year ago

liverpool


"Has this thread run out of steam by now?

I think it has................"
Did it ever leave the station, methinks not

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Has this thread run out of steam by now?

I think it has................Did it ever leave the station, methinks not "

suppose it didnt in all fairness........done to death by nasty bigoted elements . Oh and while we are talking about intelligence can a certain profile re read theirs please and correct the obvious grammatical errors? Meanwhile I will go looking for "those people" in a constructive and swinging context..........TTFN

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I don't think that many of the posters on here make "gramatical errors". It is of course the fault of YOUR intolerance to their alternative way of expression and you should not be allowed to be on this site with your antiquated views on their gramatical expression! THEY won't tollerate it!

Laughing far more than out loud!

 (thread closed by moderator)

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By *wliverpoolcoupleCouple
over a year ago

liverpool


"I don't think that many of the posters on here make "gramatical errors". It is of course the fault of YOUR intolerance to their alternative way of expression and you should not be allowed to be on this site with your antiquated views on their gramatical expression! THEY won't tollerate it!

Laughing far more than out loud!"

I blame all the spelling on the wife because she's one of those people

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I don't think that many of the posters on here make "gramatical errors". It is of course the fault of YOUR intolerance to their alternative way of expression and you should not be allowed to be on this site with your antiquated views on their gramatical expression! THEY won't tollerate it!

Laughing far more than out loud!"

To be honest it was a sly dig back at a certain couple on here who questioned my intelligence, when it's apparent from their profile wording they may struggle in the intellect department.

Completely understand the right for clubs to accept customers of their choice, completely accept that some people do not play (etc) with various other sexualities/ethnicities (etc)but I do not understand the need to be vitriolic in their comments. If it was against certain other groups there would be an outcry on here.

Just flying the flag in the face of bigotry, nothing more nothing less.

 (thread closed by moderator)

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By *wliverpoolcoupleCouple
over a year ago

liverpool


"I don't think that many of the posters on here make "gramatical errors". It is of course the fault of YOUR intolerance to their alternative way of expression and you should not be allowed to be on this site with your antiquated views on their gramatical expression! THEY won't tollerate it!

Laughing far more than out loud!

To be honest it was a sly dig back at a certain couple on here who questioned my intelligence, when it's apparent from their profile wording they may struggle in the intellect department.

Completely understand the right for clubs to accept customers of their choice, completely accept that some people do not play (etc) with various other sexualities/ethnicities (etc)but I do not understand the need to be vitriolic in their comments. If it was against certain other groups there would be an outcry on here.

Just flying the flag in the face of bigotry, nothing more nothing less. "
In future I will proofread my posts before assaulting unsuspecting readers of my profile with a litany of misspellings, egregious grammatical errors, and other verbal atrocities.

 (thread closed by moderator)

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

TV/tg should be treated as single men in clubs not trying to get in on cpl and bi nights

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"TV/tg should be treated as single men in clubs not trying to get in on cpl and bi nights "

eh? why not on bi nights? can't men be bi now?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I don't think that many of the posters on here make "gramatical errors". It is of course the fault of YOUR intolerance to their alternative way of expression and you should not be allowed to be on this site with your antiquated views on their gramatical expression! THEY won't tollerate it!

Laughing far more than out loud!

To be honest it was a sly dig back at a certain couple on here who questioned my intelligence, when it's apparent from their profile wording they may struggle in the intellect department.

Completely understand the right for clubs to accept customers of their choice, completely accept that some people do not play (etc) with various other sexualities/ethnicities (etc)but I do not understand the need to be vitriolic in their comments. If it was against certain other groups there would be an outcry on here.

Just flying the flag in the face of bigotry, nothing more nothing less. In future I will proofread my posts before assaulting unsuspecting readers of my profile with a litany of misspellings, egregious grammatical errors, and other verbal atrocities. "

Why thank you

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By *abioMan
over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead

"those people" isn't a phrase I thought I'd hear come back...

if "those people" had been in a thread with regards to race as opposed to sexuality.... could you imagine how intolerant it would be.......

p.s no point coming to club f in the north east... one of the hosts and staff is one of "those people"..... and she does a fabulous job of hosting.......

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Have to say i think its quite ironic that you are posting this considering the wording on your profile which is clearly discriminitive against other members on fab and also having a pop at fab too ??

Having been to plenty of clubs we have seen a massive cross section of swingers all og whom mingle and enjoy each others company. We have never seen any discriminitive behaviour of any shape , fashion or type. I also think your being a little naive thinking that even if it actually got to court ( massive legal costs for both parties ) that a club would " disappear " or be shut down if the aggrieved won.

Swinging clubs do a huge and for the most excellent job of making sure that every taste , fetish, gender , sexuality is catered for.

The main thing to remember is any licensed premises can refuse entry point blank they do not have to give a reason. "

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By *ugby 123Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

O o O oo

Wow there are some disgusting comments on this thread

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