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"We wonder why some venues think they can supply alcohol without a licence ? It clearly states the it is the Sale and SUPPLY that comes under the act. We bothered to get a licence so why do some venues think they can give drink away with a raffle ticket ? " It has been a loophole for a while that you can give away alcohol as a prize in a raffle. There is nothing to stop every ticket being a winner. | |||
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"Bring your own seems a better option. Easier for the club,cheaper for the customer. Also many licenses require the installation of CCTV in all rooms as one of there conditions. Unless you want to be a movie star that's not for everyone." I can just see everyone on the telly for breaking that part of the law lol "and now for the latest installment from the swingers Big Brother House".... | |||
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"Bring your own seems a better option. Easier for the club,cheaper for the customer. Also many licenses require the installation of CCTV in all rooms as one of there conditions. Unless you want to be a movie star that's not for everyone." FYI - CCTV is not a mandatory requisite for a alcohol license, it can be suggested by the local authorities or police but is NOT mandatory. | |||
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"Bring your own seems a better option. Easier for the club,cheaper for the customer. Also many licenses require the installation of CCTV in all rooms as one of there conditions. Unless you want to be a movie star that's not for everyone. FYI - CCTV is not a mandatory requisite for a alcohol license, it can be suggested by the local authorities or police but is NOT mandatory. " Not quite the case. Local Authorities can demand the installation of CCTV as a CONDITION of granting or re-newing a licence. | |||
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" I can just see everyone on the telly for breaking that part of the law lol "and now for the latest installment from the swingers Big Brother House"...." LOVE IT........ | |||
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"Bring your own seems a better option. Easier for the club,cheaper for the customer. Also many licenses require the installation of CCTV in all rooms as one of there conditions. Unless you want to be a movie star that's not for everyone. FYI - CCTV is not a mandatory requisite for a alcohol license, it can be suggested by the local authorities or police but is NOT mandatory. Not quite the case. Local Authorities can demand the installation of CCTV as a CONDITION of granting or re-newing a licence." Agreed was just advising the other poster that it is not mandatory ( unless otherwise demanded by local authority ) as she posted it being required in all rooms ( not the case ). It is not a regulation but can be requested by local authority who are also the ones who make the final decision on granting and conditions of a license to sell alcohol. | |||
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"i train all licence courses and advise on licence issues you cannot give alcohol away as a gift or prize under the licencing act even in members only clubs" so does that mean that all the socials and fundraising events where they have bottles of alcohol as prizes are breaking the law too if at private functions? | |||
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"Blimey, tell me which clubs give away alcohol! I'll be there in a flash. " Me too !!!!! | |||
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"The way a few places use the raffle ticket 'loop-hole' is nonsense. Fact is if alcohol is supplied and money has changed hands anywhere along the line, either as club entrance, charge for car parking or sale of raffle tickets it is automatically classed as a 'secondary sale' and falls under the licensing act, end of! We supply alcohol and remain within the law as we operate under the Temporary Event Notice scheme which allows you to hold 6 events per year by paying a fee to the local coucil licensing dept. per party which has to be pre-notified and approved. Anyone can do this, furthermore if you also hold a private license, as we do, you can hold up to 12 events per year in one premises supplying alcohol. This is ideal for 'Secrets!' as we only run 12 parties per year. Having said that we still operate an in-house raffle ticket system as it means bar staff don't have to handle cash and once purchased tickets can be 'banked' at the bar for use during the night, pretty handy if you're using our wetroom and pool areas. Any tickets unused during the night are re-funded. Not sure how many clubs or parties still flout the law out of ignorance or stupidity but councils and police can impose heavy penalties. As an aside it is not just alcohol that requires a license, 'regulated entertainment' ie. playing of music other than background music, and 'late night refreshments' ie. supply of tea & coffee after 11pm also falls under the councils umbrella and also needs to be licensed! And who said running a club is a walk in the park!!!" All true very well put as well | |||
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"The way a few places use the raffle ticket 'loop-hole' is nonsense. Fact is if alcohol is supplied and money has changed hands anywhere along the line, either as club entrance, charge for car parking or sale of raffle tickets it is automatically classed as a 'secondary sale' and falls under the licensing act, end of! We supply alcohol and remain within the law as we operate under the Temporary Event Notice scheme which allows you to hold 6 events per year by paying a fee to the local coucil licensing dept. per party which has to be pre-notified and approved. Anyone can do this, furthermore if you also hold a private license, as we do, you can hold up to 12 events per year in one premises supplying alcohol. This is ideal for 'Secrets!' as we only run 12 parties per year. Having said that we still operate an in-house raffle ticket system as it means bar staff don't have to handle cash and once purchased tickets can be 'banked' at the bar for use during the night, pretty handy if you're using our wetroom and pool areas. Any tickets unused during the night are re-funded. Not sure how many clubs or parties still flout the law out of ignorance or stupidity but councils and police can impose heavy penalties. As an aside it is not just alcohol that requires a license, 'regulated entertainment' ie. playing of music other than background music, and 'late night refreshments' ie. supply of tea & coffee after 11pm also falls under the councils umbrella and also needs to be licensed! And who said running a club is a walk in the park!!!" | |||
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"Cool, our thoughts confirmed, there are many venues who provide food with no local authority registration or licence, they play porn and music without an appropriate licence, they supply alcohol without an appropriate licence etc etc, its interesting that in Europe the club scene is miles in front of the UK, and 10 years ago they were all "underground" and flouting various rules but they got hit by legislation and cleaned up their act, it WILL happen in the UK so we can all enjoy professional regulated venues that offer a professional and LEGAL facility. " Hmmm and then all entrance fee charges will be as they are supposed to be under the current equality laws..... | |||
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"So report them all, get them closed down, then everyone will have to come your venue. Or stop worrying about everyone else, let them make their own mistakes, laugh when they do, and be more concerned about your own business. Live and let live. " Surely the first court case will start a snowball effect so isn't better to correct the 'oversight ' them selves rather than wait to get caught? | |||
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"i agree, but sadly these people often have no clue about running a business, for example I have checked 3 recently who dont even have the correct planning permission !!! Another big oversight is those running house parties and charging , this then constitutes a "business" and they dont have planning consent to do that from a private house, I therefore also suspect that little or none of the income is declared to the inland revenue !!!! " I think you missed the point that John made above that you also seem to be selective about which laws you want to adhere to ie equality laws | |||
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"i agree, but sadly these people often have no clue about running a business, for example I have checked 3 recently who dont even have the correct planning permission !!! Another big oversight is those running house parties and charging , this then constitutes a "business" and they dont have planning consent to do that from a private house, I therefore also suspect that little or none of the income is declared to the inland revenue !!!! " What ?? Not paying tax ?? Is Jimmy Carr running them ?? J & S | |||
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"i agree, but sadly these people often have no clue about running a business, for example I have checked 3 recently who dont even have the correct planning permission !!! Another big oversight is those running house parties and charging , this then constitutes a "business" and they dont have planning consent to do that from a private house, I therefore also suspect that little or none of the income is declared to the inland revenue !!!! " bit overboard for those who charge for house parties to declare the tax lmao - even if they are making money, i mean no one else would | |||
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"i agree, but sadly these people often have no clue about running a business, for example I have checked 3 recently who dont even have the correct planning permission !!! Another big oversight is those running house parties and charging , this then constitutes a "business" and they dont have planning consent to do that from a private house, I therefore also suspect that little or none of the income is declared to the inland revenue !!!! " So a posh venue would be willing to host both swingers "events" and peoples weddings in same premises good business sense? Could this not prove risky to those from both swinging and vanilla lifes discretion if one was spotted going into the said venue? I know venues in Scotland seldom take kindly to a place being booked for a social event once they find out it is used by swingers. On another note how do you know who or who does not declare revenue to the tax man - everyone thought that Lester Piggott did too. | |||
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"Bring your own seems a better option. Easier for the club,cheaper for the customer. Also many licenses require the installation of CCTV in all rooms as one of there conditions. Unless you want to be a movie star that's not for everyone. FYI - CCTV is not a mandatory requisite for a alcohol license, it can be suggested by the local authorities or police but is NOT mandatory. Not quite the case. Local Authorities can demand the installation of CCTV as a CONDITION of granting or re-newing a licence." 100% correct. In fact lots of establishments that don't have licenced security on the door need to have cctv. Also the raffle loophole still stands. | |||
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"So report them all, get them closed down, then everyone will have to come your venue. " I think that may be close to the truth | |||
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"So report them all, get them closed down, then everyone will have to come your venue. Or stop worrying about everyone else, let them make their own mistakes, laugh when they do, and be more concerned about your own business. Live and let live. " I love buddhists | |||
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"Also while im on it. Seeing as the op is so well up on licensing laws I would like to ask why they advertise there bar and prices as they do. Under the licence act you are mot allowed to use the word "cheap" when advertising your prices. It would be best practice to make sure your water tight before having a pop at others. " There is nothing in the licensing act that says you can't use the word cheap and the raffle thing is a no go as you are still suppling alcohol | |||
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"Cool, our thoughts confirmed, there are many venues who provide food with no local authority registration or licence, they play porn and music without an appropriate licence, they supply alcohol without an appropriate licence etc etc, its interesting that in Europe the club scene is miles in front of the UK, and 10 years ago they were all "underground" and flouting various rules but they got hit by legislation and cleaned up their act, it WILL happen in the UK so we can all enjoy professional regulated venues that offer a professional and LEGAL facility. " Dream on. As long as licensing remains a "local" issue there will only be a handful of Clubs that are legal. Serving alcohol and allowing sexual activities is by default in law regarded as running an establishment of ill repute and you risk being shut down at the whim of a Councillor or senior police officer. | |||
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"Also while im on it. Seeing as the op is so well up on licensing laws I would like to ask why they advertise there bar and prices as they do. Under the licence act you are mot allowed to use the word "cheap" when advertising your prices. It would be best practice to make sure your water tight before having a pop at others. " Thats just silly | |||
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"The way a few places use the raffle ticket 'loop-hole' is nonsense. Fact is if alcohol is supplied and money has changed hands anywhere along the line, either as club entrance, charge for car parking or sale of raffle tickets it is automatically classed as a 'secondary sale' and falls under the licensing act, end of! We supply alcohol and remain within the law as we operate under the Temporary Event Notice scheme which allows you to hold 6 events per year by paying a fee to the local coucil licensing dept. per party which has to be pre-notified and approved. Anyone can do this, furthermore if you also hold a private license, as we do, you can hold up to 12 events per year in one premises supplying alcohol. This is ideal for 'Secrets!' as we only run 12 parties per year. Having said that we still operate an in-house raffle ticket system as it means bar staff don't have to handle cash and once purchased tickets can be 'banked' at the bar for use during the night, pretty handy if you're using our wetroom and pool areas. Any tickets unused during the night are re-funded. Not sure how many clubs or parties still flout the law out of ignorance or stupidity but councils and police can impose heavy penalties. As an aside it is not just alcohol that requires a license, 'regulated entertainment' ie. playing of music other than background music, and 'late night refreshments' ie. supply of tea & coffee after 11pm also falls under the councils umbrella and also needs to be licensed! And who said running a club is a walk in the park!!!" Running a club is an extremely tough game. Hats off to those that do it and do a good job, this poster above and the op included. | |||
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"Cool, our thoughts confirmed, there are many venues who provide food with no local authority registration or licence, they play porn and music without an appropriate licence, they supply alcohol without an appropriate licence etc etc, its interesting that in Europe the club scene is miles in front of the UK, and 10 years ago they were all "underground" and flouting various rules but they got hit by legislation and cleaned up their act, it WILL happen in the UK so we can all enjoy professional regulated venues that offer a professional and LEGAL facility. Dream on. As long as licensing remains a "local" issue there will only be a handful of Clubs that are legal. Serving alcohol and allowing sexual activities is by default in law regarded as running an establishment of ill repute and you risk being shut down at the whim of a Councillor or senior police officer." mmmmmm ill repute sounds so good | |||
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"You run house parties, and not a club ? But you are right, if a club wants to offer a "bring your own" policy then thats cool, although when it comes to VALUE thats objective, as it depends whats included in the money, for example we do online advance tickets for £7.50 including free food, free car park, and a pint is £2.75 whereas a club with a bring your own policy may charge £20 a couple who may then have to pay for food, parking etc. The issue we have is venues that supply alcohol but are breaking the law in doing so, if you supply food or alcohol to people then it needs to be done properly as there are laws, we ALL want MORE people to come to venues (Clubs and house parties) but it will put people off coming to a venue that may get raided at any moment by the local police or authorities........ just a thought " I have never heard of clubs or parties being raided by the police, has anyone on here ever actually (not heard it from a friend) been in a club or party when it has happened? | |||
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"Also while im on it. Seeing as the op is so well up on licensing laws I would like to ask why they advertise there bar and prices as they do. Under the licence act you are mot allowed to use the word "cheap" when advertising your prices. It would be best practice to make sure your water tight before having a pop at others. There is nothing in the licensing act that says you can't use the word cheap and the raffle thing is a no go as you are still suppling alcohol " You are not allowed to promote alcohol sales with the word cheap. Any establishment that does so is liable to be charged with promoting irresponsible drinking behaviour. This is fact. If your a licensee try it and see what happens. And the op mailed me to tell me they have changed there add. Its all about responsibility and as a licensee you need to promote responsible drinking. | |||
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"Almost every contributor on this thread is confusing 'selling alcohol' with 'supplying alcohol'. The two are different. No money has to change hands for the drink, as in payment over a bar. If you supply it supposedly 'free', you are STILL supplying it and in a public place or place of entertainment, that requires a licence. If you give it away 'free' in a premises where an entrance fee is charged (as in a club) then part of the entrance fee is viewed as going to pay for the alcohol supplied - whether or not a profit is made. It's exactly the same in my game:- if you run a stretched limo for weddings and charge, say £250 for a wedding and include a 'free' bottle of champagne in the car - then you have to have a licence for the supply of alcohol as the law takes it that part of the £250 went to pay for the champers. For Swinging Clubs, it really boils down to either bring your own OR the owners get a full licence for the supply of [alcohol]. There is really no middle ground any more... " I don't understand why peeps are having a hard time understanding the rules!! To me it's the same as going to and indian resturant where you have to take your own booze as they don't have a licence to sell or supply.. | |||
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"I don't understand why peeps are having a hard time understanding the rules!! To me it's the same as going to and indian resturant where you have to take your own booze as they don't have a licence to sell or supply.." Someones got it!! | |||
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"my point is freedom of choice so will these clubs that have alcohole licences still let you in if you bring your own booze of refuse you entry. " Your point quoting that club goers have freedom of choice is quite correct......you have the choice to go to a club that has a drinks licence or you dont. | |||
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"True but say you want to go to one of these clubs that has a licence but you choose you do not want to pay there prices can you still take your own booze or will they refuse you entry it should be your choice to choose what club you go to and your choice to choose weather you wish to purchase there drink or bring your own. The point im making is there a need for a licence any way as these costs has to be passed on to the customer bring your own is cheaper for every one. If a club chooses to have a licence to sell drinks that is down to them BUT PLEASE DO NOT STOP THE PEOPLE FROM BRINGING THERE OWN DRINK IF THEY CHOOSE TOO. " see... that doesn't make sense at all.... when was the last time you saw a pub allow people to bring in there own drink? or a restaurant???? they are business that took the risk and paid up the money to get a license.. so why would they not protect their investment.... see for me the question is more about overcharging than it is about actually allowing people to bring their own... | |||
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"Do not know about the above comment lol. Like i say all pubs have to have licences but its so nice to see that the swinging scene still have over 80% swinging clubs still do bring your own drink lets keep it that way i say or it will soon get out of hand and all you will see in 20 years time is the big brewerys with shit loads of money buying up all the swinging clubs and then bang goes your bring your own it will be gone for ever lol" Can you answer the folowing. How can you as an organiser of parties within a home environment justify charging "customers" the very same amount as an entrance fee that a licenced swinging club does? Your website states you are "non profit" but your overheads are minimal. | |||
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"This page is about alcohole licences or bring your own drink please start a new topic if you would like to chat about other things thank you" when you started using this as a thread to advertise your own partied I think you became fair game to answer the questions that others have put forward.... so... entertainment license for example? fire regulations? ect ect ect.... | |||
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"to the above we have six door staff to pay on all the parties we have cleaners to pay we just installed all ne airconditioning in the gang bang roon we put up new wide screen tvs we have put in new expensive laser lighting for the social room we have put all brand new cooling fans in all the rooms. we suply all the soft drinks and tea and coffee and proper nescaff capachinos free on the house we give out free condoms too. This party is a birthdat celebration and gang bang i just purcased the cake which cost £60 and the fireworks that go on the cake too. and you say we do not have any costs please get a life and try and run a club and you will see that they do cost a lot if you want staff too. And there is many more hidden costs too. like all the bedding that has to be washed for the people that stay over free of charge. " Six door staff? Six, for a house party! Jeez, it must be a rough house for that many door staff to be on the payroll. And i take your point about the upgrading of all your facilities in YOUR house, i do trust though that once you have completely refitted YOUR house, you will be lowering your admission charges, after all, you dont have an alcohol licence to fund do you Finally, may i point out, you dont run a club, you run house parties........very expensive house parties!! | |||
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"But strangly enough the ones that do have licences do not say you can bring your own if you choose." You can't. Because it is against the law to do so, and they would be quite within their rights to ask you to leave. I understand that you have chosen to use this post to advertise your parties now, but it can't be too hard to admit that any venue with an alcohol licence cannot allow someone to bring in their own booze. Because it is against the law! | |||
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"to the above we have six door staff to pay on all the parties we have cleaners to pay we just installed all ne airconditioning in the gang bang roon we put up new wide screen tvs we have put in new expensive laser lighting for the social room we have put all brand new cooling fans in all the rooms. we suply all the soft drinks and tea and coffee and proper nescaff capachinos free on the house we give out free condoms too. This party is a birthdat celebration and gang bang i just purcased the cake which cost £60 and the fireworks that go on the cake too. and you say we do not have any costs please get a life and try and run a club and you will see that they do cost a lot if you want staff too. And there is many more hidden costs too. like all the bedding that has to be washed for the people that stay over free of charge. " Sorry to tell you but the list of licensing related offences you are committing is growing with each and every post of yours. I am in the taxi and private hire trade and was for seven years the Secretary of our local drivers association, and dealt with our LA Licensing Dept on many issues as a result. As an early contributor said - public performance of music requires an entertainment licence. Do you have one? I doubt it. Public showing of R18 classified porn films requires a special licence. Do you have one? Your door staff - have they ALL been on approved licensing courses AND have a valid license permitting them to work as door staff and are managed by others also suitably qualified? All I would say is that if you are offering all you say you are - regardless of whether you have a license for the supply of alcohol, you are not just sailing close to the wind, you are hitting it head on and the cruel sea always wins....... in your case, the cruel sea will be in the form of an enforcement visit by the local Senior Licensing Officer accompanied - almost certainly as you are running an adult club/venue - bu the local CID. Just a few things for you to consider..... | |||
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"You run house parties, and not a club ? But you are right, if a club wants to offer a "bring your own" policy then thats cool, although when it comes to VALUE thats objective, as it depends whats included in the money, for example we do online advance tickets for £7.50 including free food, free car park, and a pint is £2.75 whereas a club with a bring your own policy may charge £20 a couple who may then have to pay for food, parking etc. The issue we have is venues that supply alcohol but are breaking the law in doing so, if you supply food or alcohol to people then it needs to be done properly as there are laws, we ALL want MORE people to come to venues (Clubs and house parties) but it will put people off coming to a venue that may get raided at any moment by the local police or authorities........ just a thought I have never heard of clubs or parties being raided by the police, has anyone on here ever actually (not heard it from a friend) been in a club or party when it has happened?" been at donkeydickparty's when been raided twice by police, had report that there was under age there, which of course there wasn't, so yes it does happen | |||
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"Scottish laws for alcohol are different and rather restrictive. Private Members Clubs can do an awful lot to get around the law. For starters they're not required to have a personal licence holder on premises to sell alcohol. I'm going to have to really scan through course materials I was given in June when I got my personal licence as to whether private members clubs are permitted to allow folk to take their own alcohol if they have no alcohol license. I know that the police in Scotland have started shopping businesses on grounds of supply rather than selling. Legal definition of Supply is confusing though - while it counts if the business is giving away alcohol, does it count as supply if alcohol is brought onto premises by club members?" Members clubs such as con clubs, labour clubs, forces clubs etc do not need a licence holder or a suitable person. The building and the association is the licence holder. | |||
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"You run house parties, and not a club ? But you are right, if a club wants to offer a "bring your own" policy then thats cool, although when it comes to VALUE thats objective, as it depends whats included in the money, for example we do online advance tickets for £7.50 including free food, free car park, and a pint is £2.75 whereas a club with a bring your own policy may charge £20 a couple who may then have to pay for food, parking etc. The issue we have is venues that supply alcohol but are breaking the law in doing so, if you supply food or alcohol to people then it needs to be done properly as there are laws, we ALL want MORE people to come to venues (Clubs and house parties) but it will put people off coming to a venue that may get raided at any moment by the local police or authorities........ just a thought I have never heard of clubs or parties being raided by the police, has anyone on here ever actually (not heard it from a friend) been in a club or party when it has happened? been at donkeydickparty's when been raided twice by police, had report that there was under age there, which of course there wasn't, so yes it does happen" Oh my god!!!!! The embarressment of that would of put me off ever going to a private party again | |||
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"True but say you want to go to one of these clubs that has a licence but you choose you do not want to pay there prices can you still take your own booze or will they refuse you entry it should be your choice to choose what club you go to and your choice to choose weather you wish to purchase there drink or bring your own. The point im making is there a need for a licence any way as these costs has to be passed on to the customer bring your own is cheaper for every one. If a club chooses to have a licence to sell drinks that is down to them BUT PLEASE DO NOT STOP THE PEOPLE FROM BRINGING THERE OWN DRINK IF THEY CHOOSE TOO. " no club is going to take all the time and effort to get their own licencese and then still let people bring their own, think about it mate - if you dont like it then you goto a place that lets you take your own, its pretty simple. you think any the resteraunts with no licence would still let people in with their own drink if they could legally sell them some after going through the hassell and cost of getting a licencse? lol | |||
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"It is so nice to see that over 80% of the swinging venues choose to keep the swinging clubs alcohole licence free. Its so nice to go to clubs where you can take your own. Cant compair pubs to swinging clubs" its because these clubs would struggle like hell to get a licence, sex club is a bit of a grey area, having a alcho licence means you have to jump through a hell of a lot more hoops to keep your licence and stay open, so getting one is easier said than done, and even if you can is it worth the hassell when you are putting more control of your club in the hands of the authority! | |||
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"its because these clubs would struggle like hell to get a licence, sex club is a bit of a grey area, having a alcho licence means you have to jump through a hell of a lot more hoops to keep your licence and stay open, so getting one is easier said than done, and even if you can is it worth the hassell when you are putting more control of your club in the hands of the authority!" I work in the Aberdeen Club, and 5 years ago when we were opening at the new venue, we had to jump through so many hoops it was unreal. Then last year council decided they weren't going to tolerate us any more and wanted to shut us down, but we fought for it and had a relaunch last August. Back in June I went for my Scottish Personal Licence Holders Certificate. Brought up so many aspects of the law I wasn't previously aware of, and reading through this thread has brought up more... I am sure we are all up to code and have all applicable licences, but not going to be satisfied until I see the relevant paperwork in the boss's office. | |||
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